The decade from 2013 to 2023 was something of a halcyon period for Dodge. Despite Ram trucks being spun off into its own separate entity, and the short-lived compact Dart, the brand was surprisingly successful. Under the leadership of Tim Kuniskis, the remaining core models, the Charger, Challenger, and to a lesser degree the Durango SUV established the brand as the home of American muscle, in large thanks to the supercharged Hellcat V8.
However, now, aside from a final run of supercharged Durangos with engines built more than a year ago, the Hellcat is dead and Dodge is about to launch into what it hopes will be the era of American e-Muscle starting with the 2024 Charger Daytona and now I’ve finally been able to drive it.
There’s definitely a group of people who will be upset about this car. The kind of Mopar-or-no-car enthusiasts with the word HEMI tattooed on their frontal lobe. The kind unwilling to accept that things change. This car, and this review, will probably make them mad. Let this be a trigger warning, then, because the era of e-Muscle is here and Dodge’s first attempt at making a muscle car out of an EV actually worked.
The Old Cars Were Great, Don’t Get Me Wrong
The now-retired LX platform Charger and Challenger (and Chrysler 300) were unquestionably aged. Major elements of it were borrowed from the Mercedes-Benz W210 E-Class from the mid-1990s. However, just being old didn’t make it bad.
In fact, while the Challenger/Charger weren’t on par handling-wise with the latest generations of sports cars, they had surprisingly good driving dynamics for what was basically a big muscle sedan/coupe. Nonetheless, by the early 2020s, it was clear this architecture could no longer be kept current with new emissions, fuel economy, and safety requirements.
In the wake of the PSA/Fiat Chrysler merger that spawned Stellantis, the decision was made to develop a series of four new platforms, three of which would be used for North American models: STLA Medium, STLA Large, and STLA Frame. The STLA Small platform would be reserved for most of the rest of the world. STLA Frame is obviously for body-on-frame trucks and SUVs like RAM and Wagoneer. STLA Medium and Large are unibody architectures.
All three are so-called multi-energy platforms, meaning they can be built as full-battery electric vehicles, internal combustion, or varying degrees of hybrid. In retrospect, given the somewhat erratic adoption curve for EVs, especially in North America where they have become unfortunately politicized, this turns out to have been a smart product planning move on Stellantis’ part.
GM went all in on electric-only architectures that don’t offer propulsion flexibility. Stellantis will now have the flexibility to build many of its new products with the propulsion systems that the market is demanding. This includes easily building different variants for different parts of the country. States like California, Washington, and even Florida that are adopting more EVs will get them, while regions like the Plains states can continue to burn fossil fuels for the foreseeable future.
The first product to hit the market from the STLA Large platform is the 2024 Dodge Charger Daytona. Despite the fact that it’s already December, the first run of new Chargers will be sold as model year 2024 because that’s what they were certified as before some program delays pushed the launch from summer until the end of the year. The 2025 models will probably launch sometime in the spring.
Interestingly, despite its last several years on the market bringing the strongest sales during the Challenger’s run, Dodge has for now at least shelved that nameplate. The Charger name will now be used on both two and four-door models (more accurately three and five-door since these are all hatchbacks).
The Daytona suffix is the indicator that this is a battery-electric model. In mid-2025, Dodge will add variants powered by the 3.0-liter Hurricane inline-six cylinder engine that will be simply called Charger. At some point, there is also likely to be a hybrid or plug-in hybrid variant, but we have no idea what that will be called except that it probably won’t be 4Xe. At launch, there are two trim levels pulling up to the dragstrip Christmas tree, R/T and Scat Pack, and that’s what Dodge brought us to Phoenix to drive.
Let’s Take A Walk Around
Thankfully, the new Charger mostly eschews overtly retro design, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t show some classic DNA of the nameplate. Unlike the LX Chargers in their various incarnations over the past 15 years, the new car has some hints of the second-generation model from 1968-1970 in its shape. It is a clean, relatively modern design with a 3-box profile. As an EV, it doesn’t need a massive front air intake (although the coming Hurricane-powered version will probably have a notably different fascia) so it makes do with a smaller grille below the bumper to cool the battery and motors.
The Daytona name is in part a reference to the high-winged, long-nosed, 1970 NASCAR homologation special. Since that sort of look probably wouldn’t go over well in the mid-2020s, the new Charger has a hood that slopes down to the mid-point of the front fascia, for aerodynamics, but maintains the taller more aggressive look with what the designers have dubbed the R-Wing.
The R-Wing manages the airflow over the front of the car to balance lift/downforce without increasing drag. This slim panel connects the corners to give the nose a taller stance that vaguely echoes the 1968 model with a slot below for airflow over the hood. The Polestar 3 has a similar setup on its nose.
The most blatantly retro element of the new Charger is the return of the “Fratzog,” the three-pointed logo that was used on Dodge cars from the early-1960s until the early 1970s. When Kuniskis showed a shadowy teaser during the Stellantis EV day three and a half years ago, the backlit Fratzog was the only clearly visible element. While most people today probably won’t recognize it, fans of those original Dodge muscle cars certainly got the hint. The Fratzog sits on a vertical support pillar at the center of the R-Wing that echoes the vertical splitter of the 1969 model. It also appears in the center of the rear fascia, wheel centers, and assorted other locations.
At the rear, there is a full-width tail lamp cluster with the now traditional Dodge race track surround lighting. Despite the 3-box profile, the Charger is actually a liftback, with the rear glass and what would be the trunk lid lifting up as a single piece. If Dodge produces a police version of the new Charger, this setup will be appreciated because the modest trunk opening of the last Charger made it challenging for loading and accessing the gear that officers today carry in their vehicles.
Below the rear bumper is a comb-like row of slim vertical slats with the label Fratzonic across the top. This of course is the outlet for the much-discussed Fratzonic Chambered Exhaust, which we’ll return to later.
It’s not so noticeable in photos, but when you see the Charger Daytona in the real world, you quickly realize how large it is. At 206.6 inches long, it’s eight inches longer than the last Charger. The 79.8-inch width is 4.8 inches more than the old standard body version and 1.5 inches more than the wide-body, thus making all new Chargers a standard widebody. It’s still about 1.4 inches shorter than the 1968 model but three inches wider than the vintage variant. Despite all the extra girth, the new Charger loses about 1.6 cubic feet of people volume relative to the old sedan, mostly from a three-inch reduction in rear legroom, but there is nine cubic feet more than the Challenger.
With the rear seats up, there are 22.7 cubic feet of very usable cargo room compared to just 16.5 cubic feet in the old Charger. With the seats folded flat, 37.4 cubic feet are available. Civilians who like taking their vehicles to the drag strip or track will also appreciate this body configuration, because it’s possible to load a full set of extra wheels and tires in the back. Chargers equipped with the Plus pack will also have a modest frunk installed as well that’s big enough for a backpack or your charging cable.
Despite, the massive opening for the hatch, the overall structure of the Charger is substantially stiffer than before. The body-in-white without the battery installed is 23% stiffer than the prior generation and adding the battery boosts that improvement to 50%.
The first new Chargers to be delivered will be the two-door variants with the four-doors arriving in the coming months. The exterior dimensions are identical for both with common sheet metal for hood, roof, and fenders. Only the door aperture changes to accommodate shorter front doors and an extra pair for the rear.
The Driving Environment
Undoubtedly, the most modern visual aspect of the new Charger is the cockpit. While Jeep and Ram have gone a bit over the top with adding screens in recent years, the Charger is a bit more restrained with just two screens. All new Chargers get a 12.3-inch center touchscreen that is canted toward the driver. The base R/T models also get a 10-inch instrument cluster display that can be optioned up to a 16-inch unit. The Scat Pack gets the 16-inch driver display as standard fitment.
While many automakers have opted to go with column-mounted shifters on their newer EVs or in Tesla’s case, to just go with the touchscreen, Dodge is rocking it old school. The Charger has a modern take on the classic pistol grip shifter. Like most modern vehicles and all EVs, this is just an interface to an electronic switch since there is only one forward and reverse gear. Despite being electronic, the shifter is set up to work like a traditional mechanical unit, staying in each gear position rather than reverting back to a central position like many others. The future, high-performance–as if 0-60 in the mid-3 second range from 670-hp isn’t high performance!–Banshee powertrain is expected to have a multi-ratio transmission, but that version isn’t available yet.
Overall, the cabin of the Charger Daytona feels much more premium than the prior generation with lots of soft-touch materials, contrast stitching, and interesting moldings on the door panels that interact in interesting ways with the ambient lighting. Best of all, there is no piano black apart from the glossy bezels on the displays.
There are two types of front seats. The standard configuration is a two-piece seat back with an adjustable headrest. Base models get a mix of fabric and leatherette covering with Black or Demonic Red full leatherette optional on the R/T. Scat Pack buyers can also opt for a high-back seat with a fixed headrest in various combinations of suede and leatherette or full Nappa leather.
Both seat combinations proved to be comfortable in the 100 or so miles of on-road driving we did and supportive when running through the tight curves up South Mountain as well as the higher speed corners of the Radford Racing School track. A potentially surprising aspect to many potential buyers of the new Charger is the seating position. Since this is an electric car with the battery pack under the floor, the floor is actually a bit higher than the prior model so the hip point feels closer to what you will find in many modern crossovers. It’s certainly not Jeep Wrangler tall, but neither is it like sitting in a Viper or even a Mustang.
One of the biggest advantages of the extra size compared to both the old Charger, and especially the Challenger, is the rear seat. The front seats in the current coupe power forward and the doors are long enough for surprisingly easy access to the back seat. With the front seats back in position for someone at least six feet tall, my five-foot-ten-inch frame had multiple inches of knee room and headroom. Again, the seating position isn’t like sitting upright in a Wagoneer, but it’s not knees up either. Two adult couples could comfortably take a weekend road trip in the Charger Daytona with space in the back for their belongings.
From the driver’s seat, the steering wheel has both a flattened top and bottom section. It’s nothing like the yoke-like device you’ll find in a Tesla Cybertruck though, it’s large enough in diameter with a thick rim that is comfortable to hold and easy to twist when the roads get curvy. None of the cars we had access to had the smaller 10-inch instrument cluster display, but I can imagine that the full display would be easily visible within the top portion of the wheel. With the larger 16-inch display, the designers have thoughtfully laid out the information so that nothing is hidden behind the rim. Most information is inside of the rim with a few bits of ancillary data like ambient temperature visible in the corners of the display outside of the rim.
One slightly disappointing element of the interior is the strip of climate controls just below the center touchscreen. Like the latest Mustang and some other Ford models, these touch controls are on a single piece of somewhat cheap-feeling plastic that feels decidedly out of place. It’s not a deal breaker, but something to be aware of.
Let’s Climb The Mountain
The whole drive program was based at the Radford Racing School in Chandler Arizona. From its founding in 1968, until it went through Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2019, it was known as the Bob Bondurant School of High-Performance Driving. After being acquired, the name changed to Radford in 2021, but it continues with most of the same programs from before including racing, teen driving, security driving, and other classes.
The school was the first to create a purpose-built track for training and it was recently completely resurfaced. After a presentation from Dodge CEO Matt McAlear, chief engineer Audrey Moore and designers Scott Kruger and Ryan Nagode, it was finally our time to see if this machine was a worthy successor to the Hellcat.
Let me say first that there is a certain group of die-hard V8 Charger/Challenger fans that will never ever be convinced that electric anything is the way to go, no matter how many times they get their butts kicked at the drag strip. But the ugly truth is that those people actually comprise only a small minority of the people who actually bought Chargers and Challengers over the past decade.
Most of the cars sold by Dodge left the factory with Pentastar V6s. The Hellcats got the attention at Cars and Coffee, or when waking their neighbors early in the morning or late at night, but they weren’t the bulk of sales.
We headed out on the morning road drive in a Scat Pack with the Track package that starts at $73,190. It also had the glass roof and carbon and suede package that brought the total to $78,680. All 2024 Charger Daytonas have the same 250-kW electric drive modules (EDM) on both the front and rear axles. The EDM consists of a permanent magnet motor, reduction gear set and integrated power electronics module.
On the R/T, the EDMs are programmed to deliver 456 hp and 404 lb-ft of torque. A press of the Power Shot button the steering wheel delivers an extra 40 hp for up to 10 seconds. Opting for a Scat Pack gets the Direct Connection Stage 2 tune as standard (other tunes will be available as an option later) which delivers 630 hp and 627 lb-ft along with the extra 40-hp Power Shot. The front EDM also has a clutch to decouple it from the drive wheels while cruising for reduced drag and better efficiency.
Between the EDMs is a 100.5-kWh lithium-ion battery pack. The pack contains 13 modules filled with Samsung SDI nickel-manganese-cobalt prismatic cells. The R/T is EPA rated at 308 miles of range while the Scat Pack with a bit more weight and larger, stickier tires is rated for 241 miles. All of the current Charger Daytonas use a 400V electrical architecture, although the Banshee variant will be upgraded to 800V. According to Dodge engineers, when pre-conditioned, the battery will charge at up to 220-kW from a 350-kW DC charger and get from 20-80% charge in about 24 minutes. AC charging at up to 11-kW is supported that gets the battery from 5-80% in 6.8 hours.
We didn’t have the opportunity to do any charging during our time in Arizona, and the Radford School hasn’t yet installed DC fast chargers although they are planning to get some to support their new fleet of electric Chargers.
Instead, Dodge had Michigan startup Ion Dynamics bring out a few of its mobile charging units. These charging carts have a 104-kWh battery on board and can charge a car at up to 60-kW. They can be replenished from a standard 240V NEMA 14-50 outlet. The carts can be remotely driven around using a handheld controller or can operate autonomously in a facility like the Detroit Smart Parking lab where they are also being tested.
Pressing the start button causes the Fratzonic exhaust to emit a sound something like a turbine spooling up followed by a roar indicating the car is running. Unlike the Hyundai Ioniq 5N, the Fratzonic isn’t trying to emulate an existing engine, the sound is unique to this car, but it’s clearly meant to indicate that it means business.
At “idle” it settles down and one of the multiple tones that can be distinguished sounds like a pulse overlaid on the low-frequency rumble. Of course, the beauty of this is that it can be turned off entirely if you want to be a good neighbor and when track, drag, or drift mode is engaged, it gets much more rowdy. At some point, we fully expect Mopar and the aftermarket to offer alternative sound palettes as well.
We headed out with the drive mode set to Auto and using a mix of interstate and surface streets headed to South Mountain Park and Reserve. The new Charger features a multi-link front and integral link rear suspension architecture. The R/T has conventional monotube dampers while the Scat Pack we were driving has dual valve adaptive units. Base R/T models roll on 245/55ZR18 Nexen all-season rubber on alloy wheels with 255/45ZR20 Nexens included on the Plus or Blacktop packages.
With significantly more power and torque to transmit, the Scat Pack starts with equal-sized 305/35ZR20XLGoodyear Eagle Sport All-Season rubber at all four corners. When equipped with the Track Pack, the rear tires are expanded to 325/35ZR20 of the same all-season variety and those that really want to be able to extract the most from the Charger can upgrade to Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3 tires of the same dimensions. The cars we used for road driving had all-season rubber while we shredded the summer tires on the track and drift pad. Those significantly wider and stickier tires are one of the key reasons the Scat Pack range takes such a hit.
While the roads in the Phoenix area are generally in pretty good shape, they weren’t completely devoid of imperfections such as expansion joints to deal with the mix of cold night desert air and extreme summer heat. I wouldn’t describe the Scat Pack as exactly supple, but the ride quality was surprisingly good, even when we got to South Mountain where the pavement quality was less consistent.
There was no harshness or thumping to speak of despite the Scat Pack’s 29% stiffer spring rates and this can likely be attributed to the adaptive dampers. At the end of the day when we drove an R/T with the conventional dampers back to the hotel, the ride quality was still very good overall, but those expansion joints definitely came through a bit more. It will be interesting to see how these two variants fare when we get them back on Michigan roads in the coming months.
As we entered the park, we made our way up a surprisingly twisty road up the mountain. With a curb weight of 5,698 lbs for the R/T and 5,767 for the Scat Pack, the Charger Daytona isn’t exactly svelte and tips the scales at nearly 1,200 lbs more than a Hellcat Charger. However, most of the excess mass is low in the structure in the form of that battery pack and the weight is distributed evenly front to rear compared to 57/43 distribution with the blown V8.
Combined with all-wheel-drive, the result is a surprisingly nimble feel that doesn’t come across as heavy as it actually is. On a curving mountain road with few straights of any significant length, the Charger Daytona is far more fun to drive than you would expect from something that weighs nearly three tons apart from two notable exceptions, the steering and width.
There is a variable ratio rack and pinion steering system that works well enough but even in Sport or Track mode doesn’t really provide any feedback about what is happening at the front wheels. As you press the buttons in the lower left quadrant of the steering wheel to switch from auto to sport to track, the effort increases a bit, but it still feels largely disconnected. I suppose since this is a muscle car and not a sports car, that’s probably appropriate, but it was slightly disappointing. The other concern was the sheer width of the Charger which took up much of the space on the mountain so we had to be particularly careful on all the blind curves to make sure to keep to our side of the double yellow line.
With all of that mass, there is a lot of kinetic energy to dissipate and the Charger has that handled. The R/T gets 354-mm front and 350-mm rear rotors with floating calipers. The Scat Pack, however, really comes ready to work with 410-mm rotors at both ends, six-piston Brembo calipers on the front, and four-piston units at the rear. Since it’s also electric, there’s plenty of opportunity for regenerative braking and paddles on the back of the steering wheel allow the driver to adjust the regen up and down. You might think that such large brakes are unnecessary with regen braking. But when the battery is fully charged, it has little or no capacity to absorb the energy recovered by regeneration so the friction brakes are needed to dissipate kinetic energy, especially on the track.
In the Uconnect 5 interface, there is also a setting to toggle creep mode on and off. For those that really want to emulate the old ICE feel, creep on and low regen feels like a conventional automatic transmission. With max regen and creep off, the car will come to a complete stop although the regen still isn’t quite as aggressive as some other EVs.
Throughout the drive, we played around with the sound settings. While it doesn’t sound like a Hellcat, the loudest sound is considerably more aggressive and fitting of a muscle car than what you’ll encounter in the Ioniq 5N or a Mach-E in unbridled mode.
Dodge has opted not to include the simulated shifting of the Hyundai and that is actually a bit of a shame. While the sound and shift emulation may sound like a gimmick (and it is), it’s actually a lot of fun to turn it on when driving on a back road. On the Charger or any of the other EVs, I’d leave it all off when just commuting though as it’s much more relaxing.
Hitting The Track
After lunch, we got to do some laps on the Radford school road course with Scat Pack cars on the summer performance tires. As on the mountain, this hefty beast feels surprisingly well balanced and the width is less of an issue although it could come into play when passing during a track day event. In order to optimize the capability, there is a race prep mode in the performance pages of the infotainment system that can used to bring the battery to its optimal operating temperature of about 65 degrees for maximum current flow. Depending on the starting point, race prep can take up to about 5 minutes.
We were just doing lead and follow with an instructor so it wasn’t an issue. When coming out of the final corner onto the pit straight, tapping the power shot button on the lower right quadrant of the wheel gives an extra 40-hp boost that could come in handy when racing although the standard 630-hp is plenty. As on the Ioniq 5N, the extra audio feedback from the Fratzonic exhaust is actually helpful in gauging where in the performance range the car is and it’s just plain fun.
Following our track time, I headed to the skid pad to try my hand at drifting. When selecting drift mode, the Charger decouples the front EDM and operates as a rear wheel drive car. Even with only half of the available power and torque, the instantaneous delivery of the electric motor and all of it at the rear axle, makes initiating a drift surprisingly easy, even with the Supercar tires. Maintaining the drift takes quite a bit more practice however as you try to figure out the correct amount of pedal modulation. Regardless, generating smoke and shredded rubber is a no-brainer.
While I didn’t make it to the drag strip, preferring to take some more laps of the road course, those that did, found the Charger Daytona quite capable. Thanks to the instant torque response that even a supercharged V8 can’t approach and the all-wheel-drive, the Charger Daytona is capable of much more consistent launches than its rear-wheel-drive predecessor. Timing slips I saw had elapsed times ranging from 11.4 to 11.7-seconds, very impressive and consistently quicker than a non-Demon Hellcat.
Driving the R/T after the Scat Pack was perhaps a mistake. With 456-hp plus the 40-hp power shot, it’s still a very quick car getting to 60-mph in 4.7 seconds. But it doesn’t feel quite as brutal off the line as its sibling. However, given that most previous Charger and Challenger buyers opted for the Pentastar V6, they will probably be more than satisfied with the new R/T. Opting for the R/T means getting the same size tires all around and no Track, Drift or Drag options in the driver mode settings. It’s still got the same purposeful looks and most onlookers will never notice the difference.
So what is the competitive set for the new Charger Daytona? That’s actually surprisingly difficult to define. Probably the most obvious candidates are the aforementioned Ioniq 5N, the Mach-E GT, and the Tesla Model S Plaid. The Plaid is in many ways a muscle car, not having the greatest handling, but exceptional acceleration capability. The Tesla can easily out-accelerate the Charger with a 2-second 0-60 compared to 3.3 for the Dodge. The Dodge is a lot sleeker-looking than the Hyundai or Ford.
An alternative perspective is to consider the Charger an alternative to crossover coupes like the BMW X6M or Porsche Cayenne coupe. It’s quite a bit more affordable than those Germans, offers more room inside, and has a unique character all its own.
The initially available Chargers aren’t exactly cheap with the R/T starting at $61,590 including delivery and the inaugural Scat Pack going for $75,185. At about $17,000 more than the 2023 Scat Pack Wide Body Charger, it might seem expensive and it is. However, it’s important to keep in mind that the new Scat Pack is actually quicker than the old Hellcat Red-eye that went for $95,000.
From the start of production, the battery modules used in the Charger Daytona will be coming from Samsung’s factory in Hungary so the car won’t be eligible for the federal tax credits, although customers who choose to lease will get the credit passed along. At some point in 2025, the first of two joint venture factories between Stellantis and Samsung in Indiana is due to begin producing cells. If the new administration in Washington doesn’t find a way to repeal the IRA in the next year, cars with those cells will become eligible for credits with a purchase.
Bottom Line
After spending a day with the new Dodge Charger Daytona, I feel like it absolutely does carry on the muscle car tradition into a new era. Despite its prodigious mass, the Scat Pack is the quickest accelerating Charger ever, matching the mightiest Vipers and only getting beat by the Challenger Demon models. While it lacks that subtle pulsing vibration of a big V8, the sound is kind of fun and it has way more utility than we ever could have expected from a car like this.
The problem for Dodge is that the purchase of a car like the Charger is never an entirely rational decision. While no one actually needs a car like the Charger Daytona, I believe there will be some who want it. There is absolutely a group of Hellcat V8 diehards that will go to their graves condemning this car and refuse to consider it no matter how many times they get beat at the drag strip.
But if potential muscle car drivers would just set aside their preconceived notions and head down to their local dealer and take one for a test drive, they might just find themselves lusting after this new breed of American e-Muscle and continuing that halcyon era.
Honestly had me a little bit until:
All the size and weight of a Chevy Tahoe but in the practicality of a 2 door coupe.
MURICA!
It’s 1970 all over again.
At least this time the behemoths aren’t spewing unburned, fully leaded hydrocarbons.
Yet…let’s wait to see what next Lib owning initiative the Trump administration is going to take up. I’m sure they could convince his voter base that they miss the good ole days of leaded fuel without much effort.
There is no better way to own a lib than to make it breathe your stinky poisoned exhaust.
I remember when I used to give the excuse that my track car was heavy at 3800 pounds.
Yup, holy crap.
Obviously, the big battery pack weighs a lot, but even without it, it’s heavier than many vehicles. What is causing it to be so heavy? Is it made out of depleted uranium?
That will be the norm for all large chassis EVs
I’ve thought this is a great looking car from the start. I like just about all of the things they’ve been doing with this version outside of the price. I think this completely fails because it’s too expensive. Hopefully it can hold on until they get the ICE variant out but I’m worried they’re gonna ask too much for that one as well.
Jesus. 5700 pounds.
Remember when Ford introduced the Expedition, and everybody was losing their minds at how heavy it was? And that was for a fullsize 3-row.
I’d like for cars to weigh less again, please.
It might just be the Old Man Yelling At Cloud in me but that center infotaiment screen and its “buttons” is awful.
I esp. dislike that it follows the (base) Mustang’s trend of “tablets stuck to the dash” instead of more seamlessly integrating them. I don’t know exactly why people like this look; I’d like it if the whole idea was that they could be easily swapped out/replaced as tech improved, etc. but I suspect that is NOT the plan.
Noise for boys who can’t let go not for me. I like the quiet of an EV, where I can actually hear the tires doing their work near the edge.
I keep suggesting to my wife that I can disable the noisemaker in her Bolt but she won’t bite. The quietness is really cool when you realize what you can hear without all the noise.
Mind if I ask what EV you have? I rode along with a coworker’s Model 3 and was shocked by how loud that thing was. Like I had to raise my voice at highway speeds.
If I’m dropping 70k+ on this thing, I want a Pac-Man FratZonic option. You get a constant background siren that’s tied to vehicle speed, “wakka-wakkas” when in motion and everytime you hit the Power Shot button, it sounds like you ate a power-pill. Engine start is same as game start and shutdown is the Pac-Man death sound. Make it happen you cowards!
You know the market will provide this sooner or later, provided the IP stuff can be worked out…
You tweak the right nerd with enough Pepsi, he’ll make it happen for you. Just be aware that you might also brick your car in the quest for 1980s audio goodness.
I want the Jetsons’ car sound.
I’m guessing that the folks at Skywalker Sound could make a few duckets here or there selling installable car soundscapes. X-wing or TIE fighter sounds anyone?
This is probably never going to be my type of car, but I honestly think they did about as well as they possibly could have given the realities of regulations and brand image.
Special kudos for bringing out a new coupe in the year 2025.
That’s kind of where I am with it. I certainly wouldn’t buy one but it seems like they actually did their homework. I’m excited to see how the ICE one is.
And a liftback at that. I really like that part of this.
Maybe as a Dodge liftback coupe owner I was less surprised by that, but yes I agree with you.
I really like this car. It improves on the old car’s styling both inside and out, and clearly Dodge has done it’s homework on “E-muscle”.
The ICE version should come with a six-speed manual and lower content- I’d like to see under $40k and under 4,000 lbs. for a base, Hurricane-powered 2-door.
Unfortunately none of that is going to happen. The word on the street is that the hurricane cars will save about 1,000…so they’ll still be chonky but less egregiously so. They also aren’t going to engineer a manual from scratch for the hurricane six so like 25 enthusiasts can have exactly what they want. It would be a massive waste of resources.
Im not saying that any of that is a good thing, but sadly it’s reality. They don’t have a manual that’s set up for AWD and the hurricane.
It would be nice if a cheaper, lighter RWD version of the Hurricane car was eventually made.
Not everyone wants or needs AWD.
The reality is that very few people actually NEED all wheel drive, but this car and powertrains were engineered to have it from the start. I genuinely really doubt that they’ll essentially reverse engineer an enthusiast spec one, but who knows.
I agree that some low-volume stuff basically never makes sense to engineer for anymore (looking at you, manual transmission), but I do think there’s a world where a RWD model could be made more cheaply than an AWD model, even given economies of scale for the latter.
That alone might make it compelling given the big jump in pricing for this generation. After all, most people who bought a previous generation Charger/Challenger were ok with RWD.
I bet you could sell the manual RWD ICE version right next to the Daytona EV for the exact same price and it would sell well.
I do not think a $75,000 manual transmission coupe from a mass market brand would sell well in 2025.
It would to about 41 people.
But they don’t have to design and build a manual transmission. They can just buy it from Tremec, just like they have been for years.
You still have to engineer the car to accept it physically, run a different program in the ECU, pay to have it certified, and so on.
That and make the car RWD only. You know more than I do about God’s own manual, but if I’m not mistaken it’s never been paired with all wheel drive.
It has a button that can turn the AWD completely off and run RWD until you turn it back on. Or until you shut the car off and restart it, because it resets each time. I have to think that with that being the case, they can also completely rip out the hardware and not have it at all if they really wanted to
Not to burst your bubble here, but going from all wheel drive to two wheel drive is pretty darn simple (though the opposite isn’t always true). Delete the transfer case (or replace the transmission-transfer case combo with a regular transmission), delete the redundant driveshafts & differential, and tweak the suspension a bit to compensate for the reduced weight. Optionally, make some simpler, cheaper parts that don’t have accommodations for all wheel drive equipment. And Stellantis already has a rear wheel drive transmission for the Hurricane (you gotta love the ZF 8), so that’s not a problem at all.
manual? under $40k?
crazy talk. no one wants cheap(er) cars or manuals anymore. all luxury all the way with all the anti-lock cupholders and adaptive seat sensors you can stuff in.
Like many I have mixed feelings about this thing. I will say that it’s very attractive. I’m not sure that the initial press release photos did it justice, it looks way better in all the pictures that have come out over the last week. It does a great job of maintaining the classic muscle car shape without overdoing the retro cues. On that front they knocked it out of the park, and for comparison I think it looks much better than the S650 Mustang.
I also have to commend them for deciding to actually make this car practical. I’ve always been puzzled by the fact that manufacturers are so resistant to making pony cars and other coupe shaped vehicles hatchbacks. It increases the usability tremendously, and it’s cool that even in coupe guise it has back seats that you can actually use. That’s always been my biggest gripe with the Mustang, Camaro, and even Toyobaru. If we’re going to try to sell our partners on a coupe this is vital.
It even sounds like it drives pretty well for what it is and it’s great that they didn’t cram the interior with a bunch of stupid tech nonsense. All in all color me pleasantly surprised, but I still have a few issues. The first is the size and weight. I get that BEVs are heavy, but this simply doesn’t have to weigh as much as a Tahoe.
IMHO it’s lazy engineering, and while it sounds like they did a good job making it less noticeable that weight is going to show up sooner or later…especially when it comes to consumables. This thing is going to absolutely decimate brake pads and tires. I’ll be curious to see how much the straight 6 variants, but I’m bracing myself for bad news.
The other issue is the goddamn price. An RT costs as much as a fucking M2 or a base Dark Horse Mustang. You can also get a used ZL1 or Hellcat for that price, and the Scat Pack creeping into the 70s is beyond the pale. This will probably garner some interest from EV curious Boomers, but they are not going to be able to sell these things without heavily subsidized leases that they’ll be bleeding money on.
I get that it took an inordinate amount of resources to make this thing happen but it’s just not going to move at this price. I don’t think there’s a market for it. Most of the last ones were sold to people that couldn’t afford them at Nissan esque financing rates and terms. You can make a $50,000 car happen that way, but a $60,000+ one is way tougher.
All in all I’ll be intrigued to see where this goes over the next few years. I think once they iron out some kinks and maybe find some ways to get the costs under control it’ll be a little more interesting, although I wouldn’t count on the tax credits still existing a few weeks from now. EVs are red meat for the culture warriors and between that and Elmo’s ketamine addled influence I’d imagine they’re going bye bye at best and turning into tariffs rather than discounts at worst.
I guess we’ll wait to see how the straight 6 variant is. That’s probably what’s going to make or break this car.
I agree on the pricing. Then again, a top trim 4Runner now specs up to $65K and I can’t figure out how a “normal” midsize SUV like the 4Runner could ever pull that kind of money, but apparently it works?
I fully expect to see huge amounts of cash on the hoods of these once the resale value, and associated costs of ownershit become well known…
One just has to place two sentences from this article next to each other to see how fucked Stellantis is:
“Most of the cars sold by Dodge left the factory with Pentastar V6s.”
“The initially available Chargers aren’t exactly cheap with the R/T starting at $61,590 including delivery and the inaugural Scat Pack going for $75,185.”
Yeah, I figure it’s 1/2 due to internal doubt it would be able to actually produce enough of them fast enough to meet demand and 1/2 due to the vibe nature of our social media-driven market, creating the big splash now with the high end models and then rolling out the others once they go viral. Such is our world now I guess.
The 22 charger base was 34, call it 40ish with a few options. And this is starting at 21k more. Yeah, i agree with you here- if i was in the 40k price range, this wouldnt even cross my radar.
This won’t matter at all.
People buy wildly expensive and stupid things hand over fist. Look at the crop of today’s overpriced, moronic and most pointless cars on sale and tell me they’re doing terribly.
I mean, it’s too easy to point fingers at a Cybertruck, but I see them all over the place now. I see Tesla Plaids regularly; I mean, I don’t hate them but they are crazy expensive–and they sell. I have no idea where people get the money, but they seem to be out there. I’m not poor, but there’s no way I’d spend $40k on a minivan. However, I see those plus Tahoes that sell for more ALL THE TIME.
This pricing structure was not created on a whim. Everyone makes fun of Stellantis, but I can promise you that they have a lot of very smart people who have studied the economics on this stuff and that pricepoint was not a guess. They know that there are lots of people who will buy these things.
Yes, the poors can’t have one anymore. Since when do corporations give a crap about that anyway? They can buy one used in five years or they can just go buy an econobox from another brand. They don’t want the low profit margin market anyway. Why make a little money when you can make a BUTTLOAD of money?
This thing is bigger than our minivan, which just somehow feels wrong since our minivan can seat eight and the new Charger only seats five (with only four being comfortable). Then again, it seems like the 1970s again where every new car is bigger than the one that came before it…
It’s bigger than my full-sized Buick LeSabre. And that’s big.
Is a full size passenger car, not a light truck, thats how the size class and form factor works. There are also 5 seater crossover vehicles that are the same size or bigger than older full size sedans that had 6 seats
Interesting car, and a different take on an EV for sure. That being said, I bet this will struggle. As you mentioned, while a minority of overall Charger/Challenger buyers, there are those who will only buy a V8, and… those are a large chunk of those who bought the previous Hellcats and Scat Packs. I think the mistake here is that Stellantis didn’t go after the V6 buyers with an EV, or even better, a hybrid. I mean… The basic Camry is a hybrid, so is the Accord. But with the flexible platform architecture, and Tavares out at Stellantis, I have a feeling things may change a bit going forward.
As a dedicated fan of C-body Mopars from the late 60’s and 70’s, I can appreciate a bigazz car with numb steering. Now I just need to convince my wife of my need (although I may hold out for the Hurricane).
Orrrr, wait and snag up a new 2023 R/T once the 24/25s hit the lots for half the cost and just enjoy the hell out of that instead.
Saw a new Scat Pack in person yesterday on my drive home (with manufacturer plates). It looks really good in person!
I think it’s great looking and I love that it’s a liftback. I just can’t get over the pricing. I know it’s expensive because reasons, but yikes.
The market changes, for better or worse.
I think this car is stupid. …but, fun stupid. I approve though I’m not sure there’s a market for this (quite yet).
Buy/drive/love whatever you want. Perhaps this thing, or a Yugo.
For whatever reason, probably the styling and pictures I’ve seen so far, I figured this thing to be smaller than the current Challenger/Charger, not somehow larger! Holy cow is this thing big. Not really a big deal as this is supposed to be a muscle car and not a sports car, and I suppose it truly has a market all to itself.
I really think the size was the magic feature behind the sales success of the last car, the Challenger was the only one of the three (vs Mustang and Camaro) that had a truly comfortable back seat for full size adults (and had 5 seat belts instead of 4), plus a good size trunk.
Oh I agree. The Challenger actually functioned as the sort of car you could easily put a family of 4 into. I would bet a lot of families that had the default crossover as the first car, saw something like the Challenger as a totally acceptable second car.
Also had the tradional sort of “big American car” seats, thickly padded and comfortable, and that boulevard ride. Set the cruise control and point it down the highway without beating up your lower back or rattling out the ol dental work
It certainly appeals to the demographic that tends to buy new cars, especially cars that aren’t a means to an end (40+).
Shrink it by 20% so it fits European roads, ditch the front drive unit so the steering can be re-engineered for feel instead of hiding torque steer, and this would be the first EV I could consider actually buying.
300ish bhp is more than enough, and I want a lift back coupe.
Ain’t this thing roughly the size of many European grandtouring cars?
Honestly, this thing seems roughly the size of many European countries.
You could griplock the whole of Liechtenstein just by parking one of these things on the road and opening the drivers’ door.
I have owned smaller sailboats.
Sure, if your idea of a European grand touring car is a BMW 760.
2025 Charger EV (L x W x H, WB): 203.6″ x 79.8″ x 59″, 121″
2024 760i: 212.2″ x 76.8″ x 60.8″, 126.6″
Now, lets compare to some actual GT cars…
2024 GranTurismo: 195.2″ x 77.0″ x 53.3″, 115.3″
2024 Continental GT: 190.9″ x 76.9″ x 55.3″, 112.2
2024 Panamera: 198.9″ x 78.1″ x 56.0″, 116.1″
2024 8-Series: 191.2″ x 74.9″ x 53″, 111.1″
Seems closer to the GT cars to me, especially the Panamera–which really isn’t a full GT car, but it’s a 4-door, just like the Charger is offered in.
You need to fly over and try driving a rented Panamera on some rural roads or through a medieval town.
I regularly drive down roads that are too narrow for a BMW Z4.
So… shrinking it by 20% wouldn’t make it fit European roads?
And, if they are too narrow for your car, how did you drive down them? /s
What you do is you stop when a car comes the other way, and then bicker about who has to back up to the last passing place.
It’s much easier if the two cars are narrow enough to squeeze past each other.
In America we would put up a one way sign and call it a day
Tricky when it’s the only road that goes there.
The scale of the roads was something I never got used to in the US. They’re huge. I grew up in a part of England where the nearest road with two lanes going in both directions was over an hour away.
Yeah, we spoiled ourselves a bit in the 1950s, especially in the western US. Plenty of cheap, empty space that the government could buy to build it’s new network of superhighways to support interstate commerce and the “military industrial complex”. American cars weren’t actually all that big in the ’30s & ’40s, but with growing roads & styling trends, cars started to grow in the ’50s, and then even more in the ’60s, and then to the point of absurdity in the ’70s. Then add on the shear distance between places and an almost complete lack of public transportation, and the automobile becomes a necessity, so nearly everyone has one. And our population increased dramatically over the last 70 or so years, so now there are even more cars on the road. And all of this trickled down to state and municipal roadways.
There are some neighborhoods near me with 100 year old houses that are one way so they can have street parking even though the streets are so small. This is a public road so it has to have two lanes or be one way. There is an alley behind my house that leads to my garage that is one lane in both directions and very occasionally I have to back out to let the neighbor in, but that is technically a private road. One lane private roads are somewhat common in the US, with sometimes a few houses sharing access to the public road. In rural areas these private drives could be very long, but the county road that they connect to after a few miles will be two lanes.
While I’m sure I could have fun pushing someone else’s, a sedan nearing three tons with uncommunicative steering is not something I aspire to own.
I chose my user name for a reason, and am fairly certain I would have more fun in a Toyota Echo once the novelty of the incredible acceleration wore off. I was surprised how quickly my reaction to my sister’s Polestar2 went from, Holy Shit! to Yep: it’s electric car fast.
For me too, it’s the driving dynamics, not the speed. Esp. these days where cars are so well-made and everyone seems to drive around all closed up, it’s almost like you’re playing a video game, not piloting a complex machine down a real road. Which perhaps is what most people want.
Here for this as well. I like to have an interaction with my vehicles, not just a device to drive. Ive always had Mazda’s (2 currently) and while they are down on tech/MPG/blah blah blah (BTW none of that is a bad thing necessarily in my mind), their driver involvement and feel really makes the drive worth it
“The exterior dimensions are identical for both with common sheet metal for hood, roof, and fenders. Only the door aperture changes to accommodate shorter front doors and an extra pair for the rear.”
I dig this and like to think their silhouettes will be identical, like a Volvo 240’s or, of course, various classic Detroit sedans’. That explains, happily, the practical roofline. I appreciate that it’s a liftback, too, not that I’ll be in the market for one of these (at least in Daytona form).
A throwback for sure, every sedan was made this way back in the day.
My favs were the Germanic ones that in effect said “if you want the coupe version, we’re not even going to change the door size” ala the first few gen Jettas.
I’ll wait for the I6 version.
The electric powertrain doesn’t scare me off; it’s the price (and Stellantis reliability). I’m not sure the I6 version will be a major improvement in those areas…
Wait for the HEMI version.
It’s nice that you can turn off the fake noises, however with all the talk about the special sound ducts and such to make the noises if you decide to never have the sound on you’re still stuck with all the weight of that crap, on an already heavy vehicle. Also you can make a BEV with natural noises. Hoonigan had an ae86 BEV conversion drift car on a while back, and when the owner turned it on the turbine on the motor sounded amazing, while doing it’s main job of cooling the motor.
I disagree, I hate simulated shifting and simulated engine/motor noises.
Personally I have no interest for this new platform. I wanted to buy one of the previous gen AWD variants in Hell Raisin Purple but they never made one with a manual transmission. This one is too damn curvy aesthetically, but the electric door handles kill it for me.
The most fun car I’ve ever driven is electric, it’s not 5700lbs and it doesn’t have 456 HP.
It’s a 1980 Comuta Car with a 24 HP motor and a 72V battery setup, it drifts like no other car I’ve ever driven.
You don’t need an overweight high horsepower BEV to have a fun BEV, you need one with a good power to weight ratio, with emphasis on the word weight.
I think simulated anything is inherently dishonest.
However, I found simulated gear shifting helped me gauge corner speed for track driving. In ICE cars I learn the track by gear shift points. As I get faster I can grab 4th or 5th on a straight, and maybe there will be a complex of curves that all get taken in third. It helps with judging speed without looking at the speedo.
In an EV without simulated shifts you have to either be amazing at judging speed, or keep reading the speedo (which is tricky if it’s digital and constantly changing, you need a dial).
I wanted to hate the Hyundais fake gear shift, but it made the car more fun, more involving and safer to drive on track.
I’m entirely with you on weight. Get the weight low enough and any amount of power is fun.
My last (and final) MOPAR had simulated build quality. The repair bills, however, were quite authentic.
I am one of those people with HEMI tattooed on my frontal cortex. I have owned several Dodge and Ram vehicles with the HEMI engine. I went electric because it’s fast as hell and I am a geek so it scratches the technolust in me. I plan to pick one of these up, on a lease anyway. I really like the design of the car, the size is a concern. I am also very tall so I could not take the allocation they offered because I need to sit in the car to see if I fit before I commit to it. I want to order a black car with the red seats.
Based on the massive size of this car, it would be a pretty serious packaging disappointment if anyone other than Victor Wembanyama didn’t fit into it. But I understand that manufacturers sometimes make weird non-ergonomic choices that require a test drive to notice.
I could not buy any of the other cars with a sunroof as without it my head was on the roof with the seat at the lowest position. Sunroofs took too much headroom. Seats sit a lot higher from the floor than they used to, in my 2005 Magnum I was fine but the Chargers the seats were much higher off the floor. Surprisingly I am fine in my Tesla because of the design. I have headroom issues with lots of cars. I am all torso and head.
Nice. Can I get one in panther pink?
Only with the “Simulated Puppies, Unicorns and Rainbows” & “Henry Mancini Soundtrack” Fratzozonic exhaust package.
Pricing is still a big problem. The old Charger/Challengers could be had in base form for less than half of what these will command. I suppose it might be a good thing then these are priced what they are as Dodge likely couldn’t produce them fast enough if sales numbers mimicked the prior generation.