It’s been 14 years since the outgoing Toyota 4Runner went on sale. To put that in perspective, that time period covers three presidential elections, eight Drake studio albums, and 31 Marvel films. It’s outlasted the cultural relevance of Fetty Wap, lived long enough to see Mumford & Sons get milkshake-ducked, and saw both the demise of the Nissan Xterra and the rebirth of the Ford Bronco. To some, that might make the old SUV ancient, but to others, it makes it familiar.
However, times are changing. In a downsized, hybridized world, there was only so long that the old 4Runner could hold out for, lest it get bowled over by regulation or outpaced by modernity. As such, welcome to the all-new 2025 Toyota 4Runner. It doesn’t share a whole lot with its predecessor, but it’s exactly what a 4Runner has always been — a small Toyota pickup truck with an enclosed body. Not only does it maintain a sense of normalcy, it plugs a hole in the lineup beneath the new Land Cruiser.
So, how much has changed in 14 years? Let’s take a gander at the new 4Runner inside and out to see just how different it is from its predecessor, and to glean early hints of whether or not it’ll live up to expectations.
Old And New
Style-wise, the new 4Runner is a blend of Tacoma and Sequoia, with a few throwback touches like quarter windows that wrap over the cantrails for good measure. It’s more rakish than the boxy Land Cruiser, especially with the swept C-pillars and bumper carve-outs for tire clearance. To the joy of Toyota SUV fans everywhere, the roll-down rear window is sticking around, and it gets easy to parse controls on the trim covering the license plate light.
If anything, the pronounced fenders, angled C-pillars, and underbite remind me of the fourth-generation 4Runner, produced from 2002 to 2009. That’s the one that was available with the V8, a coveted, if slightly awkward-looking machine with some serious off-road chops. Time will tell whether or not the styling of the new 4Runner ages well, but for 2024, it’s right on the money.
The Inside Story
Slide behind the wheel of the 2025 Toyota 4Runner, you’ll find a dashboard pretty much identical to that of the new Tacoma, and that’s a good thing. Not only does this keep production costs low, it means the 4Runner inherits the Taco’s massive available 14-inch touchscreen, oversize controls, and sturdy passenger grab handle. It’s a wise move by Toyota, especially since it grants the new model some level of familiarity.
Moving to the second row, this is where things change a bit from the Tacoma. Overlanders will likely love the rear seats that tumble to create a flat floor, while rear seat passengers will appreciate giant cup holders built into the rear door cards with cutouts for travel mugs with handles. It’s worth noting that the cargo area floor is higher in hybrid models, and that a third row remains available for the handful of shoppers who want it.
The Oily Bits
Under the hood of most new 4Runners sits a 2.4-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine making 278 horsepower and 317 lb.-ft. of torque. If that isn’t enough, a hybrid i-Force MAX powertrain comes standard on TRD Pro, Trailhunter, and Platinum trims, and is optional on TRD Off-Road and Limited models. That system pairs the 2.4-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine with an electric motor and a 1.87 kWh nickel-metal hydride battery pack for a combined output of 326 horsepower and 465 lb.-ft. of torque. Yep, that exceeds the output of the old fourth-generation 4Runner V8, while using half the cylinders. Progress, am I right?
Speaking of progress, an eight-speed automatic transmission is the only gearbox option, and that can be good or bad depending on your perspective. If you were hoping that Toyota would port over the manual transmission from the Tacoma, you’ll be disappointed, but an eight-speed automatic sounds a whole lot better than the old 4Runner’s five-speed automatic, especially when you’re exercising a maximum towing capacity of 6,000 pounds.
Beneath the new 4Runner, you’ll find a coil-sprung solid rear axle and independent front suspension, just like on some grades of Tacoma. While two-wheel-drive is standard, most grades are available with a two-speed part-time transfer case, with Platinum and Limited i-Force MAX models getting full-time four-wheel-drive with a locking center differential. Off-road-oriented TRD Off-Road, TRD Pro, and Trailhunter trims get a locking rear differential, but a locking front differential is absent from the options list. However, the new 4Runner does gain a front anti-roll bar disconnect on certain off-road trims, which should allow for additional articulation to handle big obstacles. Add in the option of Toyota’s Multi-Terrain Select off-road cruise control, and this thing’s set for the rough stuff.
Hunting Trails
Of course, if you’re really looking to get into overlanding and have money to blow, Toyota has you covered with a new Trailhunter trim. Less of a blast-through-the-desert trim like the TRD Pro and more of an extended adventure trim, it gets some nice off-road stuff, like Old Man Emu dampers with 2.5-inch forged pistons and external reservoirs, 33-inch Toyo Open Country A/T tires, three inches of lift up front, 1.5 inches of lift out back, extra skid plates, a snorkel, a light bar, RIGID LED fog lights, and a 2,400-watt inverter for powering all sorts of off-road camping toys. With a whole bunch of bronze accents, a rugged-looking roof rack, and a bunch of pre-wired auxiliary switches, it’s My First Overlanding Rig, and you can get it all financed and with a warranty.
Is This What The People Want?
On the face of it, this is definitely a 4Runner. It’s a Tacoma SUV that looks modern, has enough hints of prior models to draw from heritage, but it doesn’t go overboard on retro. It keeps the beloved roll-down rear window, is still body-on-frame with a solid rear axle, and should have solid chops on dirt, mud, rocks, and sand. For the sort of off-roading many people are looking to do, this should fit the bill perfectly without massive compromises on pavement. Plus, it’s still built in Japan. However, there are still a few questions left to settle.
People bought the old 4Runner because it was proven technology, and the closest thing to an anvil you could get with license plates and easy financing. Going to the new turbocharged engine resets the clock, so it might take time for some existing 4Runner owners to trust the new technology. Will it be as robust as the old V6? Only time will tell. At the same time, the turbocharged grunt and massive tech improvements inside should do well to court a new generation of 4Runner owners who might’ve been turned of by the old model’s relative antiquity, but we won’t know for sure until sales figures start rolling in. The other unknown is pricing. If high-trim 4Runners cost Land Cruiser money, it wouldn’t be surprising to see some customers jump to the next model up. However, all should be revealed later this year, as the 2025 Toyota 4Runner is set to go on sale this autumn. If it drives anything like the new Tacoma and doesn’t cost Land Cruiser money, 4Runner fans won’t have anything to worry about.
(Photo credits: David Tracy, Toyota)
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Minus the tan appointments, the interior would look at home in a Komatsu. It doesn’t matter though. It’s a Toyota, and a 4Runner at that. Wannabe offroaders will be paying $20k over sticker for the privilege of taking this thing to Whole Foods. Actual offroaders will wait to see how the new platform shakes out.
So glad they kept the roll down rear window, and that shade of teal with those quarter windows is absolutely dope, what a great throwback.
Does it have a few too many terry flaps and foldy folds? Yeah, it’s obviously fussy, like just about everything else out there.
But it looks like a modernized 4Runner, and for that I think it’s fine. The interior looks nice enough, it retained the roll down rear windshield, and it now offers a hybrid. I’d say those are all pretty solid advances. And hey, they’re already showing it off in a few awesome shades of blue!
You all better get used to seeing these because we’ve got roughly 15 years with this design if history repeats itself.
I think it looks good and I’m glad there’s a hybrid. That being said…did they just skip over the mid tier hybrid powertrain in this? The 245 horsepower set up in the Taco and Grand Highlander? That thing manages mid 30s MPG in the Grand Highlander so I assume it would manage similar here. The iForce Max stuff is cool but it’s as much for power as it is efficiency.
I think Toyota is betting that 4Runner customers (of which they have so many that they sell instantly) simply don’t care about fuel efficiency. And they’re probably right, people keep gobbling up the current 4Runner for the privilege of getting 17 mpg.
It would be amazing to have something available like a hybrid 4Runner that averages 30 mpg, but the customers of these will likely be delighted if it gets 22 mpg. Also, isn’t that essentially the Sienna powertrain? Maybe Toyota doesn’t want the 4Runner associated with that.
Those are two different powertrains. The hybrid in the Tacoma is the same iForce Max here (and similar as the Grand Highlander/Crown Hybrid Max), but there’s no other hybrid in the Tacoma, just the nonhybrid turbo 2.4 with lower output options of 228hp (auto) and 270hp (6MT). The hybrid in the Grand Highlander with 245 hp is what the Sienna etc use too as Taargus said, basically a passenger car/crossover powertrain. I don’t think they have any GA-F vehicles that use it too, or if they will maybe something else down the line will offer it.
But I don’t think they ‘need’ to offer it in the 4Runner like Taargus also said for success. I could also see them doing something with the off-roady-type offerings in the next hybrid RAV4 for those that want that though.
Mid 30s pushing a BOF brick down the road? Doubtful… maybe high 20s if they paired it with a lot of underbody aero and low rolling resistance tires. Grand Highlander is big, but its much more suited for fuel economy than one of these.
It’s too big, unfortunately. As you all know my wife and I will be in the market for a hauler in the next few years and I’d love to consider the Grand Highlander hybrid because of its excellent fuel economy and Toyota longevity but the thing’s a damn boat.
My wife is an outdoorsy type (I guess you could say I am too, within reason) and things like the Bronco/4Runner/etc. are some of the only cars she really likes, but neither of us want to make the fuel economy/refinement sacrifices they require. Definitely a first world problem…but it would be nice to see an efficiency oriented hybrid of some sort in any vehicle in this category because we’d be all over it.
Right now it’s looking like we’ll wind up in a CX90…and we’d love a plain hybrid Highlander but Toyota lots are thermonuclear. You’re not getting any big hybrid unless you’re willing to pay $5,000+ over sticker or wait a year plus. We may wind up just getting on a list for a Highlander sometime soon since we don’t need it immediately.
Dimensionally the CX-90 and Grand Highlander are within tenths of an inch of each other outside, but I get that doesn’t necessarily equal how they feel inside and behind the wheel.
The tweener size of the regular Highlander has its place but Toyota may disagree now with the Grand out, and Highlander supply will probably continue to dwindle now because of the Grand so getting on the list might be the way to go. I think anything else hybridized that shows up from anyone else will be just as big as the Grand too unless someone jumps on a Santa Fe competitor.
I’m not sure how rugged a vehicle you need for outdoorsy. I’ve taken a minivan on plenty of shitty forest roads without incident. 90% of the things I do have a trailhead that a Miata can handle. Be realistic with how much capability you actually need.
Oh I am. And this place has beaten me over the head with van adoration so much that that’s my first thought too. But my wife is staunchly anti van and I’m only progressing slightly in changing her mind. She likes the look of the more rugged stuff, and if it’s what she winds up wanting I’m inclined to give it to her, you know?
Giving her some leeway to have a car she really wants to drive is good to help her slowly but surely become an enthusiast and it buys me some leeway for future stupid purchases. I’ll also see to it than if we get something capable it gets used to its potential because the thought of having a capable car and never using it is wasteful to me.
It’s why I take my N to the track. Hyundai made it track capable out of the box, so I’m going to use it as god intended.
Dude I hear you, I’m not immune to the cool offroad look either. I can say that minivans have shitty ground clearance. There’s a guy here in town with a lifted Sienna that’s kinda boss.
As someone who has owned both serious offroad SUVs and things like a Volvo Cross Country, an Outback and now a minivan , Most fire roads are fine with any FWD but anything worse than that and ground clearance becomes a big thing. Also 4×4 and AWD really are much better on boat ramps.
I’m not saying it is a design masterpiece, but it looks like a 4Runner. If they made it less “busy”, it’d probably just look like the current gen. They can lose that “4-R-U-N-N-E-R” on the back and no one will be confused. Enough with that on every car already.
But with the new “cheap” Land Cruiser, I don’t get what role this is supposed to play outside of the bottom tier trims. The outgoing 4R is nearly the same size as the LC. Now they’ll have the same drivetrain on higher end trims. They’ll both be far more competent offroad than the average person needs.
I’m sure Toyota will sell a ton of them, so what do I know.
Just speaking for me, but as someone who’s only gotten interested in cars in the last 8 years or so, I’m grateful that most cars are so forward with their nameplates. It makes for fun to, say, see a car’s taillights and try to guess until I get close enough for the headlights to catch the model name. Or to see their headlights in a mirror and guess what it is before I can read the side or back.
I’m grateful that there’s so few cars that don’t have their name on them.
I don’t hate the looks like most people here seem to but it doesn’t matter because this thing will be outrageously too expensive. The back seat looks like there’s barely any room as well.
Surprised to see so many saying it’s ugly or looks like a cross between other Toyotas.
But hasn’t it been always like that?
3rd gen was a fluffier-looking Tacoma with a SUV body, underneath mostly LC90.
4th gen was a simplified, lowered LC120 with a 7th gen Hilux front,
5th gen was kind of unique in looks, then the 8th gen Hilux borrowed the face design.
That said, I think the new LC250 looks better overall, so this thing will need to be priced competitively.
Chunky, clunky, ugly. Maybe Toyota borrowed some Subaru ‘stylists’.
Judging by the 2025 Forester, Subaru is just copy-pasting other people’s work now.
I genuinely miss the weird Subaru.
The Forester is an interesting model in that it has managed to get more disappointing to me each year for 15 years. It’s like they committed in 2008 to spend the next 20 years transitioning the model from a wagon into a Ford Explorer. The 2026 model just needs to be a little bigger and they will have completed their mission.
I blame obsession with bettering / matching interior volume size vs exterior size. Once everyone maximizes those “kpi”, cars start to look the same.
I think they absolutely nailed the 2nd-gen rear quarter window design. Completely unexpected and very much appreciated by us GenX fogies.
However, then I looked at the interior. F-in kill me with the tacked-on giant iPad nonsense.
I’m not a 4Runner person. I’m a heavily-depreciated-German/British/Italian-no-car-payment-but-makes-up-for-it-in-repair-costs person. However, the SO is kinda stuck on a 4Runner purchase in the near future, and the German Shepherds will certainly appreciate something larger than a Stelvio. So…here’s to the accelerated depreciation of the 5th-gen.
I mean, it still has separate climate controls, so I don’t see what the problem is with the screen? It lets them consolidate media controls, GPS, and car setting menus (headlight delay after turning off, etc.). Not to mention, that centered knob below it might be a volume knob, which probably makes a lot of people happy.
I think that’s the best compromise achievable right now.
I think the problem he has is aesthetics. I am speaking for myself, not him, but I personally have a passionate hatred for the tacked screen look that sticks up out of the dash board uncovered. I find it looks like they didn’t both trying, and now the market just accepts this.
I suppose I wonder, what’s the alternative? If you sink the screen down, your eyes go further from the road to check the GPS. Also effects ergonomics and such.
As for not liking it sticking up, it would look nicer if the dash “swooped” around it somehow to give it a smoother look…but that might affect sightlines and be a big no-no.
I can’t point you to specific vehicles that have done it well unfortunately, as the new car market is something I look at, then forget about. I don’t own anything newer than ’07 currently, and I’m not particularly interested in anything new. But I have seen full screens integrated in to dashboards in ways that look like they actually tried to make a part of the interior. If I can replicate an OEMs screen placement with double sided tape and an Ipad, then I will forever think they are doing it wrong.
Does Toyota run some kind of optimizing software to maximize the messiness of hoses and wires in the engine bay?!
I noticed the same thing, you can’t even see any engine under the pile of hoses. Ford’s 2.3 turbo looks similarly messy in Rangers and Broncos. Presumably the similar engines look similarly messy for similar reasons, although I don’t know what those reasons are.
That’s why many engines now have massive covers.
Looks like a 5VZ-FE mated with a school of eels
I’m not surprised that I’m struggling to understand the differentiation between this and LC. It’s just one of three J250 variations. I guess if pricing starts at 40k or so, I’ll understand. We should have had the J300 be the LC/LX, Sequoia should have had rear independent suspension to compete with the Tahoe/Suburban/Navigator, and the J250s playing 4Runner and GX roles.
Citrus wrote it looks “blomby” and that resonates with me. Blomby like the RAV4 and other toyota SUVs. I think it’s the uber-aggressiveness of both the exterior and interior cross into parody. LC/GX, are only a bit better…just something cartoonish and Tonka-like with the proportions and angles. I much prefer styling of the Rivian R2 for a midsize SUV.
Looks like a fucking rav 4 from the front and side. You already know how I feel about that ugly pop up dash.
RIP to the 4runner.
I’d love to read what uncle Adrian has to say about the design…
No, really.
That’s totally ugly. It’s just like the new Sequoia/Tundra and Tacoma, which is intentional I know, but it has about 39 unnecessary and obnoxious facets in the sides of the thing, plus a big chin front end.
It’s the SUV version of a pickup, and that’s a fairly rare thing in 2024, and I like that. Except I don’t really like the pickup it’s made from.
The wrapover rear windows are also cool and retro, except I can’t even hardly see them past all the obnoxious busyness of the rest of it.
There are a few things awkward about its proportions. The rear wheel well seems to cut too far into the rear door(not more than the last gen though), and the rear overhang looks awkwardly long and low(def more than the last gen). Not only is it visually distastefully long and low, but a long and low rear overhang is totally bad for the things a 4runner is supposed to do.
The black fender flares, as much as they’re a little dorky looking, are very necessary to break up the vast sides of this thing, it looks like a bus with the body color fenders. Speaking of vastness, power side steps? Really? This is supposed to be a smaller SUV that you shouldn’t need a step to get into.
Toyota/Lexus designers need to have the pencils slapped out of their hands. Their models are almost uniformly too busy.
It’ll definitely be possible to spec a 4Runner for Land Cruiser money. It just becomes a question of do I want a high spec 4Runner or low spec Land Cruiser.
I do like how the back windows are cut into the roof some like the 2nd gen.
I’d have loved more differentiation from the Land Cruiser by going throwback to the 1st gen with the removable top. I know that’s unrealistic though unless it’s like a sub model or something.
I lost interest in the 4Runner after the first generation.
No removable top, no thanks.
You used to be so handsome, adventurous and full of life?
You had so much potential!
You’ve really let yourself go 4Runner.
You don’t even seem to have any sense of purpose these days.
It’s like you’ve completely given up.
What happened to you?
What’s so important about a removable top?
It’s fun, and it’s cool, but it’s also a spot for leaks(not fun or cool), and it’s just not that big a deal for me. I have plenty of fun in vehicles without removable tops. Its just an interesting thing to be so stuck on so much.
I have a CJ with a removable hardtop, and several jeeps that don’t, and they’re both awesome. A lack of removable top on the XJ sure wasn’t a deal breaker.
Wow, I wasn’t trying to be belittling or rude or say that I’m more important than you, I’m just trying to explain all sides of the topic to have a well-rounded discussion. I agree that removable tops are cool and good, and all I wanted to talk about was your particular reasoning for wanting them so much, and presumably more on the 4runner than on other vehicles? I thought your stance was legitimately interesting and worth discussing, but I wasn’t trying to say that it was wrong or put you down.
I bet you’re fun to be around in real life.
Has not been an option for *checks notes* 34 years
There’s no room for frivolity these days, sadly.
With crash/crush standards, I’m trying to understand how stupidly thick and heavy such a removable top would have to be, never mind the leaks/tolerances and other manufacturing considerations.
Hell, I’m sad potentially looking at Miatas at how few have hard tops. I’d hate to buy a soft-top model and then have to drop another $1k on a hardtop.
Lol this must be satire
It’s definitely a 4Runner. It looks enough like the previous version that I wouldn’t notice the difference in traffic.
Lol yes you would, it’s pretty different. Recognizable still, but a big change.
you are blind as a bat
It’s about time they got it right. Get used to this version, we will be seeing this for sale for about 15 years with a refresh or two thrown in. Glad they went back to the roots and got it right. Now, can we discuss a 2 door version that the back roof section unbolts off of…..?.
It looks a tad diminutive from the sides, like it’s missing a couple of inches of wheelbase at the rear doors. In general, I like it from a distance–and the body-colored luxury trims are tolerable, but it isn’t my style. Give me the Land Cruiser (Prado), instead. Or, better yet, the Lexus GX 550.
I am glad they kept the roll-down rear window, though.
Here’s to another exciting Toyota vehicle that will mostly go to those willing to pay a five-figure markup. The Toyota dealerships are some of the greediest out there right now.
We have basically 3 Prado’s to choose from now!
Looks pretty good, even though it’s not really giving 4Runner vibes. Looks more like a Taco and a Sequoia had a baby while a 4th gen 4Runner sat in the corner and watched. 4Runners have long been among my favorite four-wheeled conveyances, and we currently have two of them in the fleet. I think we’ll be keeping them.
This is the best description I’ve read on how it looks.
I like the screen and seating position. I’m glad the rear power window is still there and the interior, which is a fancier Tacoma, looks great.
I think the rear window that curves with roof is awesome. The front and rear looks good, chunky, aggressive, but not too excessive. The 8 speed transmission is welcomed. I’m sure the 4 cylinder will be okay. The torque and hp numbers look solid.
I have a 5th gen, I’m bringing that up because I think the side profile of the previous 4Runner is sooooo much better. The 5th gen has curves and no angry bulges or dumb black cladding (aside: why hasn’t Subaru fixed the WRX, yet?).
The new 6th gen has 18″ wheels. Hopefully, it has better brakes, but 17″ wheels would have given it more rubber to make it more pliable on the road and better for off-roading. The Bronco and Wrangler both offer 17″ rims. Now you need special tires for the 4Runner which is likely going to cost more 😐
Honestly, I would have put these things aside and get in line if it had a manual, but that is still elusive. What gives Toyota? I guess I’m in for the long haul with my 2021 Off Road Premium.
I think its okay. Maybe when I hit 300,000 miles with mine, I’ll buy one, but with 44,000 miles on my odometer, its going to take a bit to get there.
Yep… both of ours are 5th gens, and they’re currently both under 10k miles, so it’s gonna be a LONG time before we need to think about replacing them. That said, if something happened that necessitated buying a new truck, the 6th gen would definitely be at the top of the list.
I’m also positive that the outgoing 4runner has about 3″ of more leg room in the backseat. When I’m hauling our kiddos, I appreciate not having knees in my back.
They haven’t shown the base model. So how can you say there’s no 17″ option? Also it’s not 1999 anymore, 18 inch tires aren’t ridiculously more expensive than 17s.
That’s spot on. I have a 4th gen, and I can see it in the profile, except the quarter glass is too high. Not tall, too high. Something about the rear quarter doesn’t fit right.
Looks pretty great, but only in the off road trims. Proportions are off with painted panels on the other trims. This was also the case for the 5th gen.
Toyota really needs to either style or fully hide the exhaust. Tough to pay this much on this, the LC, or the GX, and just get something so ugly and old fashioned.
Really like the color they picked for the trailhunter, design language on it is bleh for me compared to the new land cruiser. The third side window is a nice reference to the shape of the window on first gen 4runner’s but seems like it just sits a bit too high
That’s been throwing me off too. I like throw back to 4th gen but it should have been taller, not shifted higher.
Kind of thought Toyota had gone away from the blomby design language and yet this has it. I like the tall rear windows though, reminds me of the funky windows that old Japanese trucks had.
The NA V6 is on life support across the industry.
as an owner of a tacoma with a 2GR, it’s honestly a pretty mediocre motor. Doesn’t sound good, not much torque, and crappy mpg. small Turbo setup makes more sense when the majority of the time these things get driven under 2500 rpm.
I also own a 2GR in a Sienna and couldn’t disagree more. Gem of a motor that I’m sorry is going away.
Good. V8 or I6 or Turbo4 or NA4
Struggling to think of a single situation where I’d prefer a 4 to a 6 in any way.
V6s are kinda bad, I’m okay with this.
Except that turbo V6s are becoming more and more common, and I REALLY don’t like those.
I’m trying to think of all the times I have owned a V6 at all in my car history, at least with vehicles that got really driven, not just that I had around. And I got nothing. Apparently, my entire history is made up of 4s and v8s with one straight six in there somewhere. Huh, interesting. That hasn’t really been on purpose.
Something I’ve noticed in commenting here is that inline 6 ownership is much more common (at least among enthusiasts) than I expected.
I’ve never owned one, no one in my immediate family has owned one that I know of, and there have been a dozen V6s or more owned among those people just since I started driving.
Good grief, I will never come to love the look of this thing. Toyota needs a reset on its design language, this is tough to swallow.
Conceptually? I’m glad the product exists, but I’d be eyeing off any of its competitors first if I was in the market for one.
What competitors?
Jeep Grand Cherokee?
I mean, I’m *not* in the market for one, so there’s that, but I’d assume the Bronco and Wrangler wouldn’t fall outside of the realm of “competitor” not that I’m saying I’d dive right in on either of those, but the semantics of my point aren’t the important part. Toyota has failed to gain position attention from my with the design and I wouldn’t label it as an instant front-runner in its market if that’s what I was looking for.
https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/PXL_20240409_002704484-768×432.jpg
Same design language as a Baboon’s bum.