Jeep is in an interesting spot right now. The company is beloved, sure, and it still offers a range of capable off-roaders that Americans love. At the same time, the company isn’t really shifting products at the quickest rate right now, and that’s causing some awkwardness for dealers. Indeed, one has gone so far as to truly slash the price of one Jeep Grand Wagoneer that it’s had sitting around since 2022.
Brought to our attention by Zach Shefska from CarEdge, The vehicle in question is on sale at Island Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram in Staten Island, New York. It’s a 2022 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Series III, with the four-wheel-drive currently listed for just $71,999. Compared to an MSRP of $110,640, that’s a crazy $38,641 discount from the dealership. Don’t get it wrong, either—this is a new vehicle complete with the factory warranties and everything. The Autopian has reached out to the dealer for comment on the matter.
Indeed, it’s not the only Grand Wagoneer out there with big money on the hood. Huntington Beach Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram has a few 2022 Grand Wagoneers on the lot, all three of them at over $33,000 under MSRP. While the black one has racked up a few thousand miles, suggesting it’s a dealer demo, the silver and white models have under 10 miles on the clock. Jeff Belzer in Roseville has another 2022 example for $27,000 under MSRP, as per the Cars.com listing, and Ron Carter in Texas has something in that ballpark, too.
So what’s going on? Well, it doesn’t take a market analyst and a supercomputer to figure out the issue here. For a start, these cars are old product. For those on Cars.com, we can see that some of these vehicles were listed at the very start of 2023, and have now been on the market for the better part of a year. Some dealers have fiddled with pricing, up and down, but as they grow more distant from the current model year, their market value only goes one way. Oh, and the Wagoneer isn’t immune either; David Stanley has one for almost $20,000 off MSRP, probably because it’s been on the lot 488 days.
Beyond that, Jeep simply hasn’t had much luck selling the Grand Wagoneer. In 2022, Jeep sold a total of 11,735 Grand Wagoneers—not exactly considered a raging trade in the U.S. market. Final figures for Q4 2023 aren’t out yet, but with only 7,463 sold up to the end of Q3, it’s looking unlikely to beat that figure. Plus, as covered by CarEdge, the cars are just sitting on lots, not moving. As of December 10, there were 3,744 Grand Wagoneers in inventory, which equals 313 days of supply at the current sales rate.
You might have thought things were bad for the Jeep Renegade, given it was canned recently. And yet, it sold 15,561 units up to the end of Q3 last year! While there were 10,765 Renegades sitting in inventory as per the CarEdge figures, that only equated to a 211-day supply. Still poor numbers, but less so than the Grand Wagoneer in some respects.
In any case, it’s kind of a problem across the board for Jeep, with the Wrangler the company’s only model sitting below 100 days supply. Compare that figure with the 19-day supply of the Chevy Colorado, or the 27-day supply of the Honda Civic. Typically, 60 to 70 days of supply is considered healthy, where there’s enough product flowing in to satisfy customers, but not a glut. That means it’s a buyer’s market for Jeeps—with so much inventory around, there’s no need to take a raw deal. You can head to any other Jeep dealership which will in all likelihood have a ton of product they’re looking to shift.
Why does nobody want the Grand Wagoneer? Well, we can speculate. For a start, it’s not exactly a budget model, being the luxury trim of the Wagoneer, and times are tough for a lot of people right now.
There’s a great Washington Post article that quotes dealers about these specific vehicles from May of last year:
Dealers say manufacturers are lifting prices beyond what customers will go for, in some cases leaving dealers stuck with models they can’t sell. Earlier this spring, White had 76 new vehicles on the lot of her Annapolis, Md., car dealership. At the time, she had no takers on the $88,000 Jeep Wagoneer. The $115,000 Grand Wagoneer? Not budging. Many of her cars cost between $50,000 and $60,000.
“I’ve got a few that are so expensive, I would do anything to get them off the lot,” White said. “I’m just giving people prices so that we would just break even. That’s how desperate I am to dump this expensive stuff, because it’s hurting us.”
It’s a big bulky SUV that doesn’t come cheap, and it’s not cheap to run. Contrast that with the amount of times you’ve said “cost of living” this week and you get the idea. It’s also not really a core Jeep vehicle in some respects. It’s a big SUV, sure, but it’s not very connected with the brand’s rugged outdoorsy ethos.
So, what does it all mean? Well, if you’ve thought about buying a Grand Wagoneer, this could be an excellent time to score one for a song. Particularly if you don’t mind picking up an older 2022 model! David and Jason drove one cross-country towing an older Jeep and have repeatedly talked about how much they liked it.
Meanwhile, if you’re on the Jeep executive board? Consider your exit strategy, or strap in for the long haul. It seems like tough times may be upon you. Godspeed!
Image credits: Island Jeep
that’s great and all but they still seem about 10k over…come to think of it, all these type barges from all manufacturers are about 40k over where they should be. full size trucks included
I’ll state the crux of the problem. It’s ugly.
There was potential in the overall shape, but somehow they made it so very overwrought. Don’t even get me started on the window trim. So many unforced errors on this one.
I don’t think looks are to blame. I live in a wealthy area and I almost never see the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer. I see BMW X7s every day and IMO they are far uglier than the Jeep. I believe 100K SUV buyers are simply not looking for a Jeep: they are going to buy an Escalade, Navigator or something European. Jeep overshot their market with this vehicle.
I’m in a slightly less affluent area, but I recall when they first came out there were tons of them. Then, nothing. They were suddenly passe. The Karens and trophy wives went right back to GM and Ford battle wagons. There are still plenty of German panzers mixed in, but no new Wagoneers. Driving one now is almost as bad as not having 4 digit license plate.
GM and Ford? That’s a participation trophy wife. Ballers drive BMW SUVs.
Escalade, Navigator, Yukon, the bigger, the better. X7s and GLs are just too small. German utes are for the nouveau riche round here.
When I saw an X7 for the first time, I was surprised at how small it was.
I’m actually in a nice part of South Florida, more of a Range Rover/G-Wagen area. I see all the luxury SUVs on a daily basis. Grand Cherokees are fairly common but I NEVER see the Waggoneers.
BMW just sells to the Tiktok lease-flex only nowadays. They style their cars for the Chinese market. Nobody with real money buys them anymore.
I agree with your points re: luxury buyer preferences, but looks are also definitely an issue. The first time I saw one from behind I thought it was a raised mini-van – it is a total affront to the eyes. From the side it looks like a raised funeral hearse – it’s just too elongated in the latter half. And from the front it’s nothing special – not as offensive as the rest of the car but as other have pointed out, it’s dull and looks the same as the Grand Cherokee.
The Escalade, Suburban, Tahoe, Yukon and Sequoia aren’t necessarily stunners but they mostly look ok (arguably good in some cases), whereas the Wagoneer looks like something designed by Homer J. Simpson or Elon Musk.
Also, all those competitors are established on the market, with existing customer bases – to a certain extent, it doesn’t matter what an Escalade looks like, a certain segment is still always going to want one. The Wagoneer name had been dead for nearly 30 years, long enough to be a totally new entrant with no existing reputation and the new one was also designed in such a way as to not be able to benefit at all from any association with the heritage model
I actually don’t hate the Wagoneer. It’s a pretty bland big bus but not offensive to my eyes in the way most modern BMWs are. Escalades and Navigators both look better however. And critically you don’t have to explain an Escalade, everyone immediately knows what it is and that you spent a big chunk of change on it. Can’t say the same for the Jeep.
This should have been a Chrysler Aspen first. Or a Chrysler Imperial. At least they would have had a chance to appeal to old-school lux buyers and Chrysler 300 owners who are looking to join the SUV trend.
Chrysler’s “old school lux buyers” are only shopping for below ground real estate these days.
I agree, to me the Grand Wagoneer looks like a Minivan from the back and side. From the front it has a bit of an overgrown forehead look. It’s like they were trying to pull off the sharknose look but made it too tall and rounded over.
Having driven a Wagoneer, a couple Tahoes and Suburbans and an Expedition in the past year as rental cars, I can confirm that its also the worst option of the bunch. And I’m a Jeep fan.
I haven’t driven any of those, so I’d be curious to hear more of your thoughts in terms of comparison.
Its been a while since I was in that vs the others, but the GM products somehow feel significantly larger inside while driving “smaller” on the outside- easier to park for example. The rotary shift dial (which my Grand Cherokee also has) is a waste of console space vs the pushbutton and/or stalk managed transmission controls. The dash and console as a whole feel more focused on looking fancy than being useful. And it felt like there was a significant lag in the pedal vs the GM 5.3 or the Ford Ecoboost.
I live in an area where Jeeps sell themselves, and aside from a neighbor with one of these, the only time I see Grand Wagoneers on the road they have rental car barcode stickers on them. Each time I go to the airport I see dozens and dozens of them in the rental car lot as I walk past it to the terminal. In a few years there is going to be a glut of them hit the used market, and I don’t think the residuals will be very good either.
Jeep is trying to blow out Gladiators at 15% off, plus dealer discounts. I got a little excited when I heard but was disappointed when I checked because even then they’re still 50K+.
I’ve seen a handful of Gladiator Rubicons end up under $50k with the discounts.
Maybe my local dealers aren’t adding all the discounts, only ones I saw under 50 were a few Willys at 46 – 48k. I figure if you’re going to get one, might as well get the Rubi.
A few of the offroad youtubers I follow recently picked up Rubi Gladiators because of the price. (Trail Recon and Wayalife)
Bob Howard CJDR in Oklahoma City is at 20% off or more. Friend of mine is the GM and always brings the heat with deals.
I checked and damn you’re not kidding. I found a Sarge Green Rubicon for 46K, I did some mental gymnastics to see if I could afford it, haha. Between cash down and trade I could probably get it for 20K financed. Tempting, but I shouldn’t get into a car payment. I’m PROBABLY priced out of the housing market, but I still have a shred of hope.
Do it!
Haha, very tempted they have a white one that’s even cheaper, 43k.
I’ve never had a new car, most of my vehicles have been closer to 100K when purchased. It would be really nice to be able to take care of one from new and really know it’s history. My 90K Volvo and 80K 4Runner both worked out well, but neither had the most spotless carfax when I bought them, they both had multiple owners before me. Buying the 4Runner at 6 years old was a little nerve wracking, as no prior rust prevention had been done. I did a lot myself, but the proverbial barn door had already been left open.
Just making sure I have this straight: Jeep dealers have happily added markups to Wranglers for years (and when they came out, Gladiators), so the manufacturer develops a new higher priced model to sell, which they don’t and need to discount heavily.
There’s a heavy dose of not knowing your customer here, mixed in with glorious irony. I’m sure the GW exists because dealers wanted more of that fabulous margin they were getting with markups, and I assume demanded a higher margin vehicle. Jeep certainly wouldn’t have gone through with the development costs if the dealers weren’t on board to sell the thing. So they built it – even though the entire industry could have told them it was a bad idea.
it’s all pretty funny.
They screwed it up design-wise period. The target audience should be Gen Xrs waxing nostalgic about being shuttled to various practices and vacations in the old school overstuffed peanut butter leather seats with the sun gleaming off miles of chrome and vinyl woodwork. If they would of leaned hard into the ultra luxurious but still off road capable ethos of the 70s GW they would sell better. Give us chrome and faux woodwork!
Yep, the target market should have been the sorts of people paying $115,000-$125,000+ for restomodded vintage Grand Wagoneers from Vigilante, Wagonmaster, Wagoneer World, Classic Gentlemen, and probably a few others. FCA/Stellantis looked at the market for ground-up “as-new equivalent” rebuilds of old ones and figured they could come in at that price, but with none of the details that appeal to the folks buying those vintage examples
I think that’s exactly who they were aiming at; those people also buy Teslas so I wouldn’t think a modern design would be unacceptable to this market segment.
Anyhow, I thought that these would be successful but it’s clearly failing – so it looks like their plan was incorrect for one reason or another.
Yeah, but they’re buying Teslas as their modern technology car, they’re specifically spending new luxury vehicle money for restomodded old Grand Wagoneers because they love something about the look and feel of old Grand Wagoneers, which the new one doesn’t capture. It isn’t much different from the 1980s when people parked their new Grand Wagoneer with its 1960s design in the garage in between their new BMW and their new Porsche 928, except American Motors realized they had a unique cash cow on their hands and left it alone (or, really, couldn’t afford to do other than leave it alone and it somehow worked out)
I think they were probably aiming at tesla buyers, but I feel like the venn diagram of people who want a tesla and people who want a giant gas guzzling jeep don’t have much overlap. As an Xer who dailys an xj, raised in a 79 GW, and had an escalade for the wife, i was stoked when I heard they were making a new GW. Then I saw it; and bought the wife a sequioa.
…at least you are proof that there are real, live people in that part of the Venn diagram!
No only that, but it simply isn’t deserving of the price. It’s just not good enough. Even if it looked great, for the MSPR (or anywhere close to it) it’s about last on my list. It’s got to be some combination of faster, better off road, more luxurious, better fuel economy… something.
I picked up a 2 year old, 30k mile, Certified Pre-Owned Q7, top trim level, for less than half that msrp–just under $50k, including taxes and tags. Pre-pandemic, but still. And on my regular trips between Massachusetts and Maryland (Silver Spring, which Nsane will know), I get 27-29 mpg, unless I’m pulling a trailer or the roof racks are on/loaded. Why Jeep thought consumers would drop $110k on a Wagoneer is beyond my understanding.
Escalade is why they thought this. And they seem to have been wrong.
One of the biggest parts of the Escalade’s appeal is that it looks like an Escalade. It didn’t take GM long to figure out that while you can base it on the same platform as the Tahoe, you’ve got to make it look more imposing to sell. Why the hell Jeep thought they could make the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer look as near as makes no difference the same is beyond dumb to me. You’d think Jeep, which pretty much solely sells cars on appearance and perception would know that. Why the hell does a $110k Grand Wagoneer look like a $60k Wagoneer but with more chrome and bigger wheels?
Thank you, that’s been my main thing all along with these vehicles – I can’t tell the difference. I thought at first the Grand Wagoneer was just the highest trim level, but no, it’s ‘supposed’ to be a completely separate model
Excellent insight. There’s not much to differentiate it from the Wagoneer but a badge.
so the haircut? or was/is it just built in profit? I agree, can’t tell them apart and didn’t know they were supposed to be seen as separate models….
This is, apparently, the 2023 version of the Cadillac Cimarron. How memories and lessons learned tend to fade…
You’d think a Jeep with a Hemi would be a big seller.
Even with the discounts, it’s too expensive for what you’re getting. As someone else said, GM just makes a better product in the category. Also I have no sympathy for dealerships.
None. At all. Zero sympathy for gougers.
Correct. I cannot imagine someone looking at a Grand Wagoneer, comparing it to a Yukon XL Denali and deciding that the Grand Wagoneer was worth $35K more.
Or Escalade. Cadillac might not be the status symbol it used to be, but it is still way more of a “flex” than a Jeep.
Well now it’s close to what it is actually worth.
Around here Stelantis has been running commercials saying at least 15% off MSRP (plus any dealer discounts) on all Jeeps except the Wrangler.
I’m active in a Wrangler forum where dealers advertise at ~10% below invoice (!) which is probably really close to that 15% off MSRP.
IMHO Jeep’s problem is one of pricing across the range – they bet they could get away with charging/listing their lineup at 1.5-2x the worth and the market is proving them wrong.
Whenever I see these turds on the road, I think, “Of all the bloated gigantors, you chose that?”
Wagoneer trying to be its own sub brand potentially didn’t help either. To anyone under 50, that’s a new brand and model name with little meaning or recognition, so it’s a hard sell to justify what looks like a big Cherokee but costs several times the price.
I’m in my late 30s and I’ve only seen a single 80s/90s Wagoneer in my life, and even then it was just last week. Not great for brand recognition
Furthermore the retro wagoneers are toys for a very small population of wealthy people who park them at their 3rd vacation home
Yeah, as far as I can see they’re mainly owned by the Dougs of the world. I only ever encounter cool vintage off roaders in exceptionally wealthy parts of town.
That’s actually not much different from who bought them new, Grand Wagoneer buyers in the ’80s had the highest average net worth of any domestic brand vehicle (and were typically the only American vehicle in a multicar household)
As a Pennsylvania resident I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a retro Wagoneer. I might not have even been aware of their existence until the new ones came out.
John Candy drives a Wagoneer in “The Great Outdoors”.
Suck My Wake
You Bastard!
I think he said go faster!
They are all over the Hamptons. Like absolutely everywhere. The people that own them also have Rivians and Teslas; I guess there aren’t enough rich people who would consider buying a new Jeep any more.
I heard a story of a Land Rover restorer who fixed up toys for the Hamptons crowd. Apparently the accumulated annual parking stickers are huge status indicator, and the owners would insist that they aren’t removed from the bumper. He had some reproductions made so he could actually work on their cars, who knows if he ever told the owners he used fake stickers.
Absolutely true. People stick them on in a pattern, fanned out like playing cards so that everyone can see their bonafides. I’ve never heard of anyone making fakes before; I should get some so I can look cool at Citarella (we used to work out there and usually go out to visit every summer – not my scene, but there are lots of cool cars around).
71 Large is still about 30 grand more than the Jeep is worth.
Suburbans go from $59k to $79k. GMC Yukons are $60k to $101k for the Denali Ultimate. They are just as capable, better looking and the higher trim levels are damn nice inside. I am a Jeep guy at heart but the Wagoneer is not a good value compared to the competition.
Yeah and this is the one segment GM is actually really good at. A Suburban will hit 100k miles without breaking a sweat…and you can probably miss an oil change or two along the way and be just fine. The things are absolute tanks and GM has been in the game of making them for well over 50 years at this point.
They know what they’re doing. Meanwhile Stellantis is…well, Stellantis.
My buddy keeps a 1996 Suburban as a second vehicle. It is fantastic for hauling, camping, etc. The only shortcoming is the fuel economy. Of course, being a 96, it has a Vortec 5.7 and a 4 speed auto. It does have the extra large fuel tank which is nice for a long drive to a campsite.
Hell, a new Ram Limited (top spec except TRX) is about $75k nicely equipped. I’m not sure what’s supposed to make a DT Ram with a wagon body worth $40k more.
It’s a Jeep thing, you wouldn’t understand.
I priced out a Yukon yesterday as part of car shopping. SLT with an option package, and besides the fancy Denali grill and 6.2L motor, I’m not sure what it is missing. $77k.
Not cheap by any means, but not $110k either. I guess the 5.3 is slower, but it certainly isn’t slow by classic “0-60 any day now” truck standards of the past 30 years.
Unfortunately I remembered they got rid of Car Play this year for GM’s own data gathering software, so maybe it won’t be a great choice.
Got the data here
https://www.caranddriver.com/gmc/yukon-yukon-xl
I drove a top spec Denali about 3 years ago. It was very comfy and the 6.2 had more than enough power.
That 6.2 is such a gem of an engine that I can’t imagine buying a Yukon without one to be honest. It’s just too good to pass up even at the premium.
The 6.2 is pretty much relegated to the higher trims and you are in the $80k’s instead of the $70k’s. I don’t believe Chevy and GMC dealers are needing to do much these days to sell them. Not like the old days where a Tahoe would have at least $5k sitting on the hood any day of the week.
If I needed a land yacht, I would head straight for the GM dealer. They know big.
All of GM’s gas-powered vehicles should still have CarPlay & Android Auto. That is per GM’s own announcement when they said their EVs would be getting GM software only going forward.
The problem with the GW (and the W) is that they’re waaaay too late. The time for this ‘Sclade clone was at least ten years ago. Very nice truck, but too late to ride the wave.
Good analysis. The wave is gone, and they are trying to ride the foam, and are getting dragged out to sea in the undertow.
Back around 2000 I wondered why Dodge (this was before RAM was a marque) didn’t make Tahoe and Suburban competitors out of their awesome-looking and hot-selling truck body. Seemed like a missed opportunity to me.
The Jeep brands are doing discouragingly poorly on the lack-of-reliability lists such as Consumer Reports. 6 figures for questionable reliability may have something to do with this. I know I do my research before buying my next car.
Range Rover seems to have no issues competing in that segment though. They sell through the tits and also have that oft-desired unreliability that soccer mommies adore so much.
Range Rover is a high status brand. Jeep … is not.
Also, people who buy/lease brand new high status brand vehicles often don’t care so much about reliability because they’re only keeping them for 1-3 years.
“Oh, Dahhhling, the Range Rover won’t start. I’ll have to sully myself and take the nanny’s Lexus”.
Because $110,000 for a big inefficient “luxurious” SUV from a non-luxury brand was always laughable. It is not best-in-class at anything and for that price you can get a better vehicle with a more impressive badge, which is something that matters when you are paying a $50,000 premium.
The Grand Wagoneer is Stellantis’ Phaeton.
I was just coming down to the comments to make the same note about this being Jeep’s Phaeton moment. Simply because people overpay for a Wrangler doesn’t make Jeep a luxury brand.
I always wanted a phaeton though. All (most) of the luxe in an understated package.
Fair point, though given how most were neglected by their second and third owners, I think the Phaeton is only desirable to enthusiasts these days. The Grand Wagoneer would probably be more desirable to the general masses if the price was more inline with the competition.
One other thought I had is that the Phaeton was the wrong car and price bracket for VW, but at least did things better than it’s direct competitors from luxury brands (aside from reliability, perhaps). The Grand Wagoneer is the wrong price bracket for Jeep, but also doesn’t really do anything better than it’s competition from both luxury and non-luxury brands. Perhaps a better analogy than the Phaeton is the second generation Nissan Titan (especially Titan XD)?
Functionally yes, but without the aspirations of the VW. It’s even second rate at that metric.
Somehow I actually see Wagoneers and Grand Wagoneers pretty frequently in and around DC. There’s a buyer for them out there somewhere, and I’d imagine they’re mainly folks in the “I only buy American” segment. But in the GRAND scheme of things I’m not surprised that these aren’t selling.
Jeep, like many manufacturers recently, had the extreme hubris to assume that they could just keep jacking up prices and keep their customers. Stellantis, like Ford and GM, offers absolutely ludicrous financing to try to offset prices, but this car just pushed people beyond their limit. At the end of the day only the 1% can afford to drop six figures on a car…and guess what?
They’re not going to do it on a fucking Jeep because it doesn’t have brand cache. This is right in line with the preferred SUVs of the conspicuous consumption crowd: the Escalade, G Wagon, Range Rovers, etc. All of those badges carry more weight, and if you’re someone who actually enjoys driving and doesn’t need the space you can also get a pretty well equipped Cayenne for this price or a BMW X7…which pretty much mops the floor with this in every way other than towing and off road ability….but let’s be real here, what percentage of ultra luxury barges ever see anything other than pavement anyway?
These also have ancient, gas guzzling engines. For some folks that matters. The Lexus LX is a hybrid, the B58 in the X7 gets mileage in the 20s, Volvo offers a PHEV version of the XC90, etc. Obviously they now offer the Hurricane 6 but that engine has been having some serious teething issues and I don’t see why you’d risk those and longevity over just getting the extremely well sorted 5.7 or 6.2 Hemi.
Anyway, this product was kind of DOA. It could’ve been a real hit if it came out 10-15 years ago but the market is kind of moving away from stuff like this now…and those who might be interested are more attracted the badge cache of actual luxury brands.
I’m guessing DC is one of the few places with enough rich people who want to be performatively anti-efficiency to buy a substantial number of these.
You’re right! Everyone assumes DC is dark blue but they’re wrong. The local government and institutions are center-right masquerading as left wing and between all the folks living here to work in politics, the military, or as defense contractor ghouls there are plenty of folks with money to spare and a persecution complex that want to consume very loudly so everyone knows they’re owning the libs.
Plus VA and MD are pretty much dark red outside of the cities. It genuinely cracks me up when Fox News et al try to describe DC as some sort of socialist Mecca or whatnot. It really isn’t…like, at all.
DC is super duper dark blue. Great Falls VA, where the Grand Wagoneers are likely coming from? Yeah not so much.
Most of DC is actually light blue. I was born here, raised here, live here, and have done a lot of work professionally that involves various DC gubment institutions so I have a painful amount of experience lol. As far as local politics go there’s a very powerful establishment that governs like moderate conservatives on pretty much everything other than social issues.
There is a small to medium sized contingent of actual Sanders/AOC type actual left wing folks who call themselves the DC Statehood and/or Green Party. They’ve gained some ground in recent local elections but the political establishment is pretty much textbook bad, corrupt, self serving liberal politics. Obviously Chicago gets most of the infamy for that sort of thing but DC is not far behind.
DC’s voter registration and election results have been 90% D 10% R for decades. That’s not light blue.
Or are you calling the broader metro area “DC”? We don’t take kindly to that, you know. You* want to live in Loudon, you call yourself Loudon, not “DC”.
*not you-you, but the figurative you
I was speaking more in the practical implications of the politics and what DC blue actually governs like….but if you break it down by raw R and D data then you are, in fact, correct.
And I agree. I can’t stand people that grew up in the exurbs claiming DC when the only time they’ve been to the city in the last 5 years was to go to a damn hockey game. Most of those same people will try to tell you they usually avoid the city because IT’S DANGEROUS or MUH CRIME WAVE or some nonsense while turning around and telling people they’re Washingtonians.
…obviously I’m layering on some hyperbole and sarcasm but I’m sure you know exactly what I mean.
The democratic party is very light blue, most of the established leadership and their policies are just Republican Lite.
The majority of people who work in government are not politicians. Fox News is in the business of influencing voters, so they pay little attention to the people who do the actual work, and who often create and implement policies that are not publicly noticed.
Having appeared in the news a handful of times, I know personally that what gets reported has only a small resemblance to what actually happened. The “news” is a business to sell advertising by entertaining the audience (readers, watchers or listeners) by exaggerating the “impact”, generating fear and making them feel informed when they have actually consumed a refined and manufactured product.
Could those ones you’ve been seeing be rentals? I went to Yellowstone last summer and they were everywhere, and they all had rental company bar codes and no smoking stickers on them.
I don’t think I could imagine a bigger self-own than traveling to DC and willingly choosing to drive a land yacht on our third world streets and in our traffic that’s pretty much worse than anywhere but LA…but that’s a valid guess nonetheless.
Where I live, these are driven by people who live in the subdivisions known for having the most obnoxious HOAs. A lot of snooty people who have NO business being snooty.
They could also list it at MSRP and throw in a free Renegade or Cherokee.
Or a Fiat 500. Or one of those brand-new Darts still kicking around.
Sort of like a dinghy. (I’d say “lifeboat”, but there’s probably a good chance that when your Grand Wagoneer is t working your Renegade or Cherokee or 500 won’t be either.)
I have owned 5 jeeps including the regretable Commander limited hemi and they are fun but NOT $100K vehicles and these lower prices still seem high. Also, $70+ wranglers are overpriced.
Curious, what’s wrong with the Commanders? I always thought they looked awesome, but I’m also far from Jeep/the Wrangler’s target market.
terrible mpg even for a jeep
Garbage transmissions and trandfer cases. Less than 10 mpg and typical jeep mechanicals. I get 50%!!! better mpg in my wrangler than I did with my commander. Also the independent front suspension killed off road abilities.
That’s wild. That makes me think of when I had a Ford Econoline and my best friend had a Jeep Patriot. We both got roughly the same fuel economy on the highway, but at least my fuel tank was ~2.4x the size of theirs. They lived at the gas station.
Mergio called it “unfit for human consumption”, and he certainly knew a thing or two about terrible cars
Do I get Kohl’s Cash with that, too?
Can Canadians join the fun? My mother has a drawer full of CanTire bucks.
That doesn’t sound very desperate to me!
If dealerships are going to ask me with a straight face to pay five figure markups over MSRP on the stuff I want, “breaking even” is certainly not what I’m going to expect from them on stuff they really don’t want.
Part of me wonders if they should have made these a RAM, or even Chrysler, SUV instead of a Jeep one.
Yes to both, but… ten years ago.
they kinda tried that with the Chrysler Aspen around 2008-09. Other than being dog ugly, they also had the added misfortune of releasing it smack dab in the throes of the historically bad economy (which, given lead times for new vehicles, seems like bad luck/timing).
It was basically an upmarket Durango, but also looked like a Minivan with swinging doors rather than sliding doors. You could get it with a 300 hp V8, but that got about 14 mpg, right about the time gas went to $4/gal
Obviously, the Wagoneer/GW are a step up in terms of size/luxury/equipment from what the Aspen was – but given the “upmarket” Durango did SO poorly, I can see why this didnt come out under a Chrysler banner.
And RAM is trucks only – I might be wrong (it happens a lot, in fact) – but I thought one of the main reasons for spinning RAM off into its own thing was so that the bean counters could use it as proof that they were doing “something” right, i.e. “yeah everything else is performing like refried turds in the marketplace but lookit these RAM numbers” (where, if RAM where lumped in the with the rest of Dodge the shine would be off the star a bit
I actually thought the Aspen looked much better than the Fisher-Price looking Durango at the time. I wish it could have stuck around.
I have felt like RAM could be their GMC if they tried hard enough but they can’t seem to get out of their own way sometimes. Having a better looking SUV that looked more like a 1500 than a Grand Cherokee with a weight problem would have been a better idea to me but this is why I don’t run things like a car company.
Chrysler’s interiors from that era were pathetic. Supposed real leather that felt like vinyl, hard plastic everywhere, plastic “wood”.
You would think people would learn – if the economy is absolutely booming and you are developing a car to sell five years out, make it economical and cut all the costs you can. Pressed cardboard interior door panels, no chrome, all blank buttons on the dashboard.
If the economy is in the dumps, add four more cylinders, vented seats, etc., and make the entire thing 20% larger.
“four more cylinders” great, now you’ve got me wondering whether any production vehicles have had V14 engines
Edit: apparently only a limited number and in marine application only. TIL.
Or, if you’re Suzuki, you would have to develop 7-cylinder engines.
Forget inline, we’re going heptagonal