The heavy-duty diesel pickup truck is as American as apple pie or baseball. Usually, the owners of half-ton trucks can only look at diesel trucks with envy as their smaller rigs are stuck with gas engines. In 2013, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles changed that by introducing the only half-ton diesel on the market with the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. Ram boasted about the engine’s diesel V6 power and fuel economy that you couldn’t get anywhere else. Meanwhile, owners found out that the Italian diesel chosen for the job was often worse than pretty much any other option and sometimes slower than walking.
Diesel engines have had a tenuous relationship with American consumers. On paper, diesels are great! Diesel vehicles are often advertised with much better fuel economy than their gasoline counterparts and in the case of SUVs and trucks, the torque figures are great for pulling heavy loads. For years, manufacturers also pitched diesel as a greener alternative to gasoline. Depending on the exact specifications, a diesel may emit less CO2 than an equivalent gasoline engine.
Unfortunately, those benefits on paper have sometimes not been realized. Back in the 1970s, Oldsmobile unleashed a V8 diesel engine that was largely based on a gas engine’s architecture to save on tooling costs. As we’ve written about before, the engine was a reliability disaster. That comically unreliable unit not only killed diesel engines in General Motors passenger cars for decades, but practically turned “diesel car” into a swear in the American lexicon.
Volkswagen was one of a handful of brands that helped make diesel cool again. The diesels from VW were reliable, scored incredible fuel economy, and were attached to genuinely attractive cars for their day. Volkswagen even figured out how to make diesels worthy of bedroom posters with the insane Volkswagen Touareg V10 TDI and its other enchanting high-cylinder diesels. Volkswagen was bold with its TDIs, too, marketing them as “Clean Diesel” engines. Americans fell in love with TDI so hard that other automakers scrambled to introduce their own diesel passenger cars to compete. Even GM started selling diesel passenger cars in America once again.
Hindsight being 70/50, we now know that Volkswagen and others were cheating, and now diesel carries a soot mark of shame around the world.
One area where diesel continues to have a strong presence is in pickup trucks. As I experienced myself with the 2024 Ford F-250 Super Duty Power Stroke, diesel trucks still return great fuel economy, awesome, intoxicating power, and enough torque to pull down a mountain. But that’s the thing. In recent years, the only way to get a full-size diesel truck from the Big Three was to buy something heavier than a half-ton.
In 2013, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles changed that with the introduction of the 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel. FCA pitched the truck as not only the sole half-ton diesel on the market, but the half-ton with the best fuel economy, the best range, and the best V6 torque. It all sounds like the recipe for a Holy Grail, right?
Setting The Stage
This truck comes from a rather weird place in Dodge truck history.
As I’ve written about before, the second-generation Dodge Ram was a smash hit. The designers at Dodge went bold, styling their new truck after the Studebaker trucks and big rigs of old. The Ram looked tough and mean, and it helped change the pickup truck industry. Dodge proved that pickup trucks didn’t have to look like work vehicles, but they could make a powerful statement in style as well.
The impact was immediate. Ford went with a conservative and lean design with its tenth-generation F-Series, but followed the macho truck path set by Dodge with the eleventh-generation F-Series.
In 1996, Dodge’s designers were tasked with the mission of following up on the perfection set by the second-generation Ram. As the Los Angeles Times wrote in 2001, the new truck eventually became a big deal for DaimlerChrysler. In the year prior, Chrysler took the covers off of the fourth generation of its iconic minivan. Unfortunately, Chrysler took a swing and missed as the crowd went mild. The fourth-generation vans looked like an update to the third-generation, not something new.
The LA Times recounts how journalists remarked that Chrysler basically invented the segment, yet got complacent. The punishment for letting minivans get boring was that buyers didn’t crowd showrooms for them. Chrysler learned a lesson in that bold is probably the way to go and that the next Ram had to continue the trend of bold design. As the LA Times writes, the design team was tasked with keeping with the big rig theme, but they had to go bolder and louder.
Sales numbers of the new Ram were solid, helping Dodge retain its third-place spot on the podium of truck sales. This Ram was also a particularly fun one with a slew of special editions, including the mighty SRT-10 and its 10-cylinder engine borrowed from the bombastic Viper.
In 2003, truck sales in America were so healthy that trucks took the top three sales positions on the charts for the first time in a decade. Ford sold 845,586 F-Series units that year with the Chevrolet Silverado taking up the second spot with 684,302 units and the Dodge Ram rounding out the podium with 449,371 units, a 13 percent increase over the previous year.
More Ram, Less Dodge
Unfortunately, the party wouldn’t last. Sales dipped below 400,000 units beginning in 2006 and it was a freefall from there. America still loved its trucks, but as Car and Driver reported in 2007, people just couldn’t afford to fuel their thirsty beasts anymore. Still, pickup trucks are cash cows even when people aren’t buying as many of them, so Dodge designers had to figure out how to get Americans in Rams again.
How would they do it? As Dodge noted in its press kit, designers would triple-down on the big rig styling that thrust the Dodge Ram into fame in 1994. However, the truck wasn’t going to be just a styling exercise. The truck’s designers built the new Ram around feedback from owners and prospective buyers.
For example, the new Ram had a front bumper that jutted outward because ranchers wanted to use their trucks to open gates without damaging the rest of the bodywork:
“We listened to anecdotes from truck owners, not just our own, but owners of competitive makes as well,” said Mark Allen, Chief Designer – Jeep/Truck Studios. “We built a range of concept trucks that we took to clinics, including one that was intentionally not ‘Ram-like.’ We heard loud and clear that people wanted the look we own with Dodge Ram—bold, powerful and capable. We knew we had to build on that theme.”
Designers started with 11 proposals for the 2009 Dodge Ram and culled it to three finalists. Design proposals were taken to several leading pickup markets throughout the country and shown to consumers in order to get their input.
Dodge Ram team members heard about real-world considerations that could impact the 2009 Dodge Ram design. For example, at one clinic, a participant noted that a Ram design concept featured a front bumper that seemed too close to the bodywork. “He said that ranchers sometimes use their trucks to nudge open gates, rather than climb out and do it by hand,” recalled Allen. “If the bumper is too shallow, nudging the gate can bash up the bodywork.”
One of the big changes with the new Ram was its move to coil springs in the rear where leaf springs would traditionally be. This happened because of a shift in buyers. Dodge noticed that an increasing number of truck buyers were people who didn’t actually need trucks. These people were often women and people of color and often lived in the South where pickup trucks were pretty much the default family car. This demographic of truck buyers loved the way the third-gen Ram looked, the power harnessed under the hood, and how much of a beating the trucks could take. However, they thought the ride was just far too harsh.
So, to cater to this increasingly large group of “casual” truck owners, Dodge equipped the new truck with a softer coil spring suspension. The automaker figured if you still needed the higher capability offered by leaf springs, you’d just buy a Ram 2500 or greater, anyway.
The truck was also a technological tour de force with hydroformed frame portions, fully-boxed frame side rails, bake-hardened steel doors, triple-sealing on said doors, a hydroformed body structure, and an air-tight sealed cab. Dodge also spent a lot of time stiffening the cab and isolating it from the outside world to add quietness to the soft ride offered by the coils.
Dodge then bragged about 35 new or improved features from Hill Start Assist software to all sorts of places to store stuff. The fourth-generation Ram has underfloor storage and an option was the RamBox, which takes the usually dead space between the inner and outer bedsides and fills them with a weather-resistant streamlined storage solution.
All of this was capped off with great powertrain choices, including a 5.7-liter Hemi V8 good for 390 HP and 407 lb-ft of torque at the truck’s launch. The new Ram helped Chrysler power through the Great Recession as sales ticked back up. But Dodge would technically be without its iconic truck. The Ram truck line was spun off as its own brand in 2010, taking Dodge’s logo with it. I’m sure you, like me, still call these trucks “Dodge Rams” no matter how much first FCA and now Stellantis want you to ditch the Dodge.
The Only Diesel Half-Ton
Dodge introduced the new truck in 2008 and at that time it indicated that the new Ram would be getting a diesel version.
At the time, the folks of Truck Trend wondered if the half-ton diesel would be getting a Cummins V6, a Cummins V8, or perhaps both. Little did they know the real answer would be neither. In fact, the Ram 1500 wasn’t even getting an American diesel.
Instead, the diesel engine came from Chrysler’s other partner in diesel power, VM Motori, the company credited with building the first diesel from Italy:
VM’s origins date back to 1947 when two entrepreneurs, Vancini and Martelli whose initials give rise to the acronym by which the Company is still known today, decided to set up a company, in Cento, Italy in the heart of Emilia Romagna, to design and build diesel engines dedicated to the construction of diesel engines mainly for the agricultural sector.
VM Motori’s relationship with Chrysler began with the 1992 Voyager. Our David Tracy has one of these diesel minivans and reports that the little bugger has been pretty reliable for him. VM Motori has been the supplier of diesel engines for European Chrysler products but also the supplier for diesels on the occasional times Americans get the chance to buy a Chrysler diesel vehicle.
For example, Americans got VM Motori power through the Jeep Liberty CRD, which got the 2.8-liter VM Motori R 428 four-cylinder turbodiesel. In other places, everything from the Jeep Wrangler to the Dodge Nitro was available with a VM Motori diesel of some kind.
Americans would get VM Motori power again with the 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee and the 2014 Ram 1500. The engine in question was the VM Motori L630, a 3.0-liter V6 diesel that started life as an engine destined to go into a future Cadillac in Europe. However, that Cadillac was canned during the Great Recession. FCA scooped up a 50 percent share in VM Motori with GM keeping the other half.
The engine went into production as the A630 in 2012, powering the Chrysler 300C and the Lancia Thema. In 2013, GM would divest its stake, putting FCA in full control of VM Motori. GM would move its midsize diesel engine development in-house.
America didn’t see the 3.0-liter V6 turbodiesel until its second generation, and FCA describes what we got:
The engine, with its 16.5:1 compression ratio, is shouldered by a bedplate and cylinder block of Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI). CGI is engineered to ensure graphite is more uniformly dispersed, which delivers higher strength, enhances durability and reduces noise, vibration and harshness – a focus of many EcoDiesel design features, such as its structural aluminum oil pan.
The EcoDiesel’s 60-degree cylinder-bank angle and 1-2-3-4-5-6 firing order are optimized to manage inertia and firing loads, eliminating the need for a balance shaft. The engine’s aluminum cylinder heads are heat-treated and feature individual bearing caps that help reduce friction and noise, vibration and harshness (NVH). Durability is further ensured by the EcoDiesel’s forged steel crankshaft and connecting rods – which provide additional NVH benefits – and its aluminum alloy pistons. These pistons, which benefit from cooling oil jets, reduce reciprocating mass inside the engine for enhanced efficiency and performance feel.
The dual overhead cams with chain-driven roller-finger followers and gear-to-gear meshing afford efficient valve operation, working in harmony with the variable-geometry, electronically controlled, water-cooled turbocharger. Special attention to this relationship helps to virtually eliminate “turbo lag” by providing increased turbine power at low engine speeds. The system incorporates a new “pre-filter” on the transmission cross-rail and an engine fuel filter. The result is enhanced prevention of injector corrosion, an enabler of long-term durability, as well as protection from the vagaries of regional fuel quality.
FCA continues that the EcoDiesel V6 is fueled by Fiat’s MultiJet II common-rail fuel-injection technology.
MultiJet II features 29,000 psi of line pressure, high-dispersion nozzles, and a new servo valve. FCA said these enabled fuel-injection events and did so with higher precision than the previous generation of engines. Apparently, the fuel system allowed for eight fuel injection events per cylinder cycle. All of this is said to provide for cleaner, smoother combustion. The engine is also tuned for a quick throttle response and power on demand.
That’s the “diesel” part. FCA says the 2014 EcoDiesel made 240 HP and a V8-like 420 lb-ft of torque, yet returned better fuel economy than even a gas V6. The gas V6 was good for 25 mpg on the highway, but the diesel did 3 mpg better. FCA continues:
The 2014 Ram 1500 not only is the first light-duty, full-size pickup to offer durable, efficient diesel technology – it is the only one. And with the 3.0-liter EcoDiesel’s historic debut, Ram customers can enjoy class-leading fuel economy and range, along with torque that is unsurpassed by any full-size truck with a V-6 engine.
As for the “Eco” part, FCA says the engine came with a lot of tech:
The new EcoDiesel V-6 achieves 50-state emissions compliance for both tier II and BIN 5. A key enabler is the engine’s cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system, which is controlled by electric valves instead of the conventional pneumatic variety. The system also contributes to rapid start-up.
A state-of-the-art Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system also reduces emissions. It incorporates a unique Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) system that, unlike competitive systems, alerts the driver to low DEF levels while also allowing the engine to maintain full power. Other features include:
- An insulated DEF tank with heated lines mitigates the effects of cold-weather operation
- A passive cooling system (one that does not require engine coolant) for the DEF injector
- Exhaust-system refinements to improve the utilization of DEF for NOx reduction while also mitigating harmful DEF crystalline build-up
- An exhaust-system design that requires less energy from the engine to achieve optimal emissions conversion temperatures
- An exhaust-system strategy that reduces soot output while also improving fuel economy and meeting emissions standards
A Fun Truck With Problems
How did it work? Well, Petersen’s 4-Wheel & Off-Road seemed to like it:
We recently spent a few days with a’14 diesel Ram (the truck formerly known as Dodge) 1500and ran through two tanks of fuel, and can honestly say we really liked this truck. It surprised us in ways we didn’t expect, but it didn’t live up to the ideals we had dreamt of, namely it didn’t get ridiculously awesome fuel economy (good but not great).
We admit that we had a pretty short visit with the Ram, but we tested it on the highway, towing at max load, in the dirt, and through some twisty mountain roads. The economy ranged from the low teens to the mid 20s, and yet we left the truck with a strange desire to have one as a project truck. Why? Because it really is fun to drive.
If you’re looking for a one-size-fits-most truck, then theEcoDiesel 1500could be your size. It will tow a small Jeep, a side-by-side, or a little camper trailer with ease and economy. It could make for a fun prerunner or camping/hunting truck and still get good mileage back to the suburbs. It rides awesome as a daily driver with the five-link rear suspension. It’s quiet but still sounds like a diesel so you know what’s under the hood. It’s not inexpensive to buy (tested at $55,375 window sticker), and diesel fuel isn’t the cheapest at the pump, but it can be economical in the long run. And it finally scratches that small diesel itch that so many have. We can honestly say that this small diesel is worth the wait.
Motor Trend also liked the truck:
The EcoDiesel engine achieves significantly better fuel economy than the Hemi engine without giving up much of its towing capability. And yes, DEF fluid and diesel engine maintenance is pricey, but using October 2015’s national average pricing for regular unleaded ($2.32) and diesel ($2.49), our EcoDiesel would still have cost $670 less than our Hemi to fuel and maintain for 32,000 miles. On November 23, the national average price for regular unleaded was $2.09, compared to the average price of diesel of $2.45.
Because of its practicality and functionality, the 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel Outdoorsman Crew Cab 4×4 might have been the most borrowed vehicle in theMotor Trendgarage. It proved popular for work-related tasks and personal use by many staff members. It traveled to the Rocky Mountains five times, up to the Reno/Lake Tahoe area at least once, and over to Kingman, Arizona. It also spent several days in the Mojave Desert and another day in Indio in nearly 120-degree temps as a support vehicle. The Ram 1500 EcoDiesel easily tackled any job we threw at it.
Reviews seemed to suggest that the folks of FCA pulled it off. They made a half-ton truck with most of the traits pickup drivers love about larger diesel trucks. Unfortunately, the second-generation VM Motori engine gained a reputation for requiring costly repairs.
While some publications didn’t have any issues, that same Motor Trend review paints a frustrating picture:
Early on in our time with the Ram 1500 EcoDiesel, the half-ton pickup suffered a few mechanical issues, first a faulty air-conditioning compressor clutch relay, then an erratic oil pressure sensor, and later an issue with catalytic converter. The clutch relay was stuck in the run position, causing two issues: It wouldn’t allow the compressor to cycle on and off, which made the evaporator ice over, reducing the effectiveness of the air-conditioning system, and the compressor was held in the run position, even with the engine off, draining the battery if parked for the weekend.
Additionally, the oil pressure light turned on when driving on steep inclines. After a manual check of the oil level and oil pressure tested within parameters, Chrysler advised the dealer to replace the oil pressure sensor. The issue didn’t return. Around 15,000 miles, the check engine light came on due to an issue with a NOx sensor being “below threshold.” The dealer replaced a catalytic converter.
The publication also noted that maintenance was more expensive for the upshot of fuel economy due to the fact that the Ram in part due to DEF fills, diesel oil changes, and a fuel filter.
Then the issues started piling up elsewhere. A Google search for “EcoDiesel problems” nets countless forum results with angry owners complaining about laundry lists of issues from emissions equipment conking out to engines just outright seizing up. One person says their oil pressure dropped to 0 PSI and the engine then seized at just 43,000 miles.
The spread of the early issues is impressive. Some people reported issues including oil cooler failures, holes burned into the intake, overheating, failed EGR coolers, and inexplicable power loss. Forum posts suggest the best fix is to install a tune that turns off the EGR entirely. Others claim that the engine’s rods sometimes break, windowing the block. There have been reported crank failures and cam failures. In 2016, CarBuzz reported instances where the VM Motori 3.0-liter diesel’s cam gear slipped, causing valves to become friends with pistons.
But don’t just take it from me or forum randoms, let a diesel mechanic explain why these engines might not be what you expect:
If you didn’t watch the video, the mechanic notes that common problems with the early engines include EGR cooler failure, bottom-end bearing failure, clogged oil passages, turbo failures, coolant leaks, and oh yeah, there was a whole emissions scandal. Like Volkswagen, FCA was caught cheating diesel emissions and the trucks had to be recalled to fix it.
As the mechanic above and the Fast Lane Truck note, the recall fix reduced power and reduced fuel economy. But weirder is the fact that some trucks also seemed to suffer from strange lag issues after the fix. One person writing to the TFL Truck crew said that throttle delay after a cold start was impressively bad, from TFL Truck:
Issue 2: Cold start up accelerator pedal lag. On cold start, you can count to seven sometimes before the truck will go, with the pedal to the floor. You can walk faster than it will move at that point. Once it is to operating temperature it gets better, but still two to four seconds of delay. I have been almost hit three times. To safely pull out, turn or merge, the distance needs to be 2 to 3 times as much as it needed before.
If you’re interested in seeing what the inside of a failed EcoDiesel looks like, check out this video by I Do Cars:
It’s Not All Bad
Unfortunately, it’s extremely difficult to determine a real failure rate based on forum posts and YouTube videos. However, it’s clear the EcoDiesel has a negative reputation and that for many people, that negative reputation is earned.
With that said, there are also many reports of people racking up tons of miles on early EcoDiesels without problems. So, it’s obvious that these issues aren’t total.
It also appears the later third-generation EcoDiesel, which launched in 2019, benefited from reliability improvements. That engine is said to be a new design featuring 80 percent new parts on top of it. It even punched out 260 HP and 480 lb-ft of torque, another improvement over the last engine.
It’s also notable that the EcoDiesel motivated the rest of the Big Three to respond. I could not find exact production numbers, but Ram said the EcoDiesel enjoyed strong initial demand. Apparently, more than 8,000 EcoDiesels were sold within 72 hours of them going on sale. Ford introduced a baby 3.0-liter Power Stroke V6 F-150 in 2018 while General Motors punched out a 3.0-liter Duramax straight-six for the Silverado 1500 in 2020.
If you’re interested in a half-ton diesel from Ram, I have good news. You can find tons of these things for sale but definitely expect to pay over $40,000 for a decent one.
As the Big Three continue moving to EVs these diesels seem to be living on borrowed time. Ford axed the baby Power Stroke in 2020 while the EcoDiesel bowed out in early 2023. Only the small Duramax is left. It’s a shame because after driving many diesel trucks and vans over the years, I think diesel still has its place in applications smaller than heavy-duty trucks.
Yes the Eco-Diesel is a big pile of junk, nothing but trouble. Dodge or Ram engineers are a laughing stock!
For example the crankshaft sensor demagnetizes itself due to its proximity to the engine block over time. Guess their engineers didn’t learn about demagnetization in school ????
The firmware and software in vehicles are ridden with bugs, even the Bluetooth crashes on the audio system.
One thing I learned about Dodge and Ram is everything they build now is worthless garbage.
Will never buy any Dodge / Chrysler / Ram vehicles ever again, they even make Cummins look bad with the SMOG systems they add that ALL fail.
Mopar is totally a bad choice for a vehicle.
A co-worker had one of these. He liked the mileage, but after something like a couple years of frequent breakdowns and spending a ton of time in the shop, he ditched it for a Tundra.
If you’re interested in seeing what the inside of a failed EcoDiesel looks like, check out this video by I Do Cars:”
I was gonna suggest people watch that exact video. His videos are great for determining some engines that should be avoided.
“Dodge noticed that an increasing number of truck buyers were people who didn’t actually need trucks.”
What they needed was something to drive while texting through a lemonade stand and half a Corolla.
I really hope we look back on the current truck boom with the same distaste that we view 70s land yachts with.
I’ve had one of these for 9 years and coming up on 140k miles. I love it and yet I probably wouldn’t buy another one for a few reasons:
That all said, I regularly get over 30 mpg on the highway when it’s warm. This is hand-calculated, not based on the guess-mileage display. It tows my trailer great and gets far better mileage than any gas engine would. I suspect the mileage improvement isn’t enough to offset the cost of the expensive repairs, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it offset the added cost of oil and DEF. It helps that diesel prices in my area are frequently not that much higher than gas.
I think a lot of the problems mentioned in the article are from first-year models. They had a lot of issues in the 2014 EcoDiesels that were fixed for my 2015. I also think there is a big issue with people treating modern diesels like old school ones, namely when it comes to idling. Modern engines don’t like to idle, diesel or gas. I hear that’s what kills the Hemi lifters too.
I’m hoping I can hold on to this truck until I can get something like the REV to replace it, but I definitely won’t be buying the first model year of that either.
We bought a 2016 Ram EcoDiesel Laramie 4×4 CPO when it was about 1 year old. The truck was sold new at the dealership we were purchasing from. They shared the CarFax and on it said the engine had been replaced right before it was listed as CPO. Per the dealership, the original owner was one of those “special” customers that always complained about something that couldn’t be replicated by the service department. Always complaining of a smell of diesel in the cabin, which was never replicated. It had been in the shop a few times (noted on the CarFax), and ultimately FCA decided to replace the engine. During the replacement, the truck was traded in on a 2500. We decided to take the gamble because we had a brand new engine in it, plus the CPO warranty and we purchased an extended warranty.
The truck was fantastic. Drove great. Laramie trim was great, super luxurious. Roomy. Loved the truck. It wasn’t long until the check engine light came on and it was on a flat-bed to the dealership. This happend about a half dozen times. Various problems. Cracked intake. Clogged pressure sensors. etc. We once tried to take it camping in eastern California. The high pressure fuel line cracked and started spraying diesel all over the engine. Thankfully our CPO warranty included a tow to the nearest dealership, which was in Bakersfield 260 miles away. (That was a very expensive tow).
Once, it was in the dealership for 6 months. This was around the time that FCA was caught in the emissions scandal. It sat waiting for the new emissions tune to be certified by EPA and CARB. Once we finally got the truck back, it was about 3 weeks before the truck started spewing diesel again, another cracked high pressure fuel line. As soon as I dropped it off at the dealership we initiated buy-back procedures under CA Lemon Law. (California Lemon Law covers any CPO car).
After it was all said and done, we were paid back in full minus mileage until the first problem… which was about 1500 miles after purchase. The Ram part of the truck was great… loved it. It was just that shitty Italian diesel engine.
It was probably one of the most expensive vehicles that FCA had. FCA covered all of these costs:
Initial engine replacement260 mile tow + rental6 month rental when in the shop.6-7 additional flat bed towsBuyback of the truck
“Diesel engines have had a strenuous relationship with American consumers”
I do not think that word means what you think it means. Pretty sure the word you were going for is “tenuous”.
Oof, that’s an embarrassing brain fart. I’ll have that fixed, thank you!
“Americans fell in love with TDI so hard”
you should have gone in Europe, especially France in the 2000s/2010s until diesel gate
…
like EVERY SINGLE car sold was a diesel from a small city car, to a convertible, hot hatch, family car, mini van, German sedan, you name it. I would swear even lawn mowers, rc cars and chainsaws were diesels too. ok maybe not motorcycles….
Not so fast! Some people were trying to put diesels in bikes back then, too! 🙂
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/first-rides-tests/2009/june/jun0409-diesel-motorcycle-review-/
What’s so frustrating to me (the owner of a 2014 Sportwagen TDI) is that those diesel engines still get really good fuel economy when they are fully compliant with emissions regulations. People often noted a 2mpg hit after VW’s fix, but that still has me getting 40+ on the highway and 35+ in town in my car. VW really fucked themselves with that one. They might still be selling diesels in the US if it weren’t for their cheating. All over a couple mpg difference. I guess that might have made it less competitive in Europe, where diesels were incredibly popular? Just a guess. I’ve never owned a diesel before and I genuinely love my TDI. 60k on it and not a single mechanical issue.
how long has it spent in the shop that it only has 60k miles? I know you say no mechanical issues, but electrical? 😉
No electrical issues either! Literally the only thing that has gone wrong is a sticky rear brake caliper, probably a result of the car being parked for 2+ years while awaiting VW’s Dieselgate solution. Easy DIY fix. I’ve had problematic VWs in my life before but this has not been one of them.
Admittedly I have only owned the car since 2020 and only put half of the 60k on it (I work from home), but the Carfax doesn’t show any excessive trips to the dealer when the original owner had it, and it was under warranty. It actually just went out of warranty for me as well, that Dieselgate extended powertrain warranty was comforting, but I never needed it.
it was just a cheap shot. I never fail to take a jab at VW, Nissan or Chrysler product.
Oh, totally fair! All those makes have earned their reputations, for sure.
Wondering how big portion of diesel problems in US is due poor quality diesel. I mean in general (exluding BMW) diesels here in Europe tend to stack pretty amazing mileages. Of course our mechanics are more attuned to these technologies which of course also affects things. And the fact that maintenance isn’t that big part of upkeep costs vs fuel, so people tend to actually properly maintain the vehicles.
The fuel available in the US is just fine. VW TDIs have the same great reputation here for fuel economy and reliability that they have elsewhere in the world. The main reasons diesels have had such a rough time here are cost (both to buy and maintain), a number of engines having serious flaws (Oldsmobile V8 & V6, Detroit Diesel 6.2 & 6.5 V8, EcoDiesel V6, and more), some just being lackluster, particularly in power (Nissan SD42, Mitsubishi 6DR5), and a number of emissions scandals.
I’ve just read from few places that there’s more variance in the quality, but I’m no expert and no real knowledge. Just makes one wonder.
Former fuel engineer here; can confirm US/NA spec diesel (ASTM D975et.al) pales in comparison to euro spec diesel. Way lower cetane, lower lubricity, more sulphur.
Definitely contributes to the issues people have with these and most post-DEF addition diesels.
“Until recent years, the only way to get a diesel truck from the Big Three was to buy something heavier than a half-ton.”
“The Only Diesel Half-Ton”
We’re just gonna ignore the two(!) separate times that GM sold half ton pickups(and Blazers) with a diesel engine?
Nope, I just wrote a sentence badly and the result is what you read. Then we missed the error in proofreading multiple times, apparently. I mean, we’ve written about previous half-ton diesels! I’m going to reword that to reflect what I was trying to say, which was that the Big Three wasn’t selling diesel half-tons in the 2000s.
Funny how Ford combatted the issue by introducing their own horribly unreliable Euro-only turbodiesel V6, the Lion! I wonder if those have any documented issues on our side of the pond or if the take rate was so low that they’ve just gone under the radar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3moekbW6z8
So I’d imagine the Duramax I6 is probably the most reliable of the three?
I’d take the “Duramax” inline six over the other two options, but I wouldn’t trust it either. It has some ridiculous design and its own issues. For one, there is a timing belt on the BACK of the engine where you cannot service it.
I think that is the oil pump belt you are referring to, but you are correct on the servicing problem. GM service instructions say that it is a cab-off and/or transmission removal affare. It’s an oil bathed belt, so people have recommended replacement every 10 years or 100k miles. With newer 2023 engines, GM says the interval is 15 years or 200k miles. Not sure I’d trust a rubber belt tasked with such an important job to 200k miles, but that’s what GM is saying.
The long cranking startup issue is supposed to be fixed. I’ve not heard of other glaring issues lately. Still, if I were considering it, I’d wait till the 3rd gen engine comes out.
You’re right, the belt drives only the oil pump. The cams are driven by a chain(better), moronically located also in that back of the engine(not better), which is actually a two stage system with two chains(not better).
So it was a full (giant) size truck with 1000 pound load capacity? That’s like four fat people and a happy meal in the bed. Why would anyone buy that?
Our 1982 datsun 720 diesel had a load rating of 1400 pounds and was of reasonable size and was unkillable.
“He said that ranchers sometimes use their trucks to nudge open gates, rather than climb out and do it by hand,”
I do that with our Prius. Did it with our old Volvo. Did it with our Mercedes 300d. What’s so special about nudging open gates that it takes special consideration in the design of the truck?
It doesn’t take special consideration, it just takes non-moronic design. See 2024 Toyota Tundra.
Well that IS a remarkably stupid design. Is no front bumpers on trucks a thing? I know rear bumpers were always optional because you might want a hitch or a vice or whatever on the back but pickups used to have front bumpers.
I had not noticed but no front bumper and the grill in front of everything seems to be the new normal. I don’t know, who is stupider the designers or the customers?
Isn’t pushing things a basic truck thing?
When I drive through rancher and farmer country, a lot of the trucks have aftermarket bumpers or brush guards.
The rest of the world can get nice pickups.
Why not this?
https://f7432d8eadcf865aa9d9-9c672a3a4ecaaacdf2fee3b3e6fd2716.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/C2408/U1977/IMG_35476-large.jpg
Or a Hilux?
I’d love a Hilux, but the closest I get to one are the occasional trucks I see around here with MX license plates.
Just look at it!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/2023_Toyota_Hilux_Champ_2.4_Diesel_SWB_Attractive_Package.jpg
The Nissan Titan XD engine was originally planned for some variant of the Ram, and was subsequently cross-shopped to others before Nissan finally bit…
The only reason the Cummins 5.0L V8 didn’t make it into the Ram was because of Chrysler’s bankruptcy in 2009. The contract was cancelled in the process, and Nissan was the only customer to snag the pickup version. Freightliner also used a variant in some motorhomes and box trucks. It was dead once no other major customer could be found and it hadn’t really taken off in the Nissan.
The V6 was part of an earlier V6/V8 engine design but didn’t make it to the next version which was eventually produced.
That’s not the story I’ve heard, which is that the 5.0 was not well suited to a half ton and that’s why they moved on from it. I think the XD has proven that true. It was over-powered and under-mileaged for a light duty truck. Likely why all of the other half ton diesels were in the 3 liter range too.
I had a coworker who ordered one the day the order books for the Ecodiesel opened. He paid entirely too much for it, since any other model Ram was getting discounts. The thing was actually pretty awesome for the first 20,000 miles, and then it became a lawn ornament at the dealership. Neat truck, horribly unreliable. He loved it though, and dealt with the crap far longer than anyone should have.
The best model Ram truck is the Mega Cab, which used to be available in 1500, but now the Mega Cab is only offered in 2500/3500 🙁
I like the Mega Cab more than I should.
I’m surprised they didn’t use a Mercedes diesel, as they were part of Daimler during the development. Of course, there’s Cummins too, like you mentioned.
But they DO sell the Mega Cab in a 1500. It’s called the Jeep Grand Wagoneer.
My friend constantly brags about his mega cab and how his kids love it. Wow, your 5 year old has 4 feet of leg room, who cares?
Let me guess, you’re about 6’8″? And it’s only available in the heavy duty trucks because they’re still using the old body that introduced the Mega Cab. The new body that the 1500 has has only come in Quad Cab and Crew Cab, and at this point it looks like it just might stay that way.
The development and plans for use of this engine (not just in Cadillacs
btw) and GM’s stake in Fiat just to pay Sergio Marchionne right to get our of it a few years later, are endemic of the short term planning that almost sunk GM in the 2000s and are story-worthy on their own
I worked with a customer at a military site the name and location of which, I cannot divulge. I had to park my rental in the visitors parking lot and have him drive me on to base. And he had a 2017 version of this truck/engine.
It was very plush. I was surprised how far (full-sized American) pickup trucks had come from the 70s (the last time I was in one). Back then, pickups were cheaper than mainstream American sedans. Pickups were just tools back then. Not status symbolds. His Dodge/RAM had way more bells and whistles than my 2017 Accord EX V-6.
He admitted he wasn’t super happy with it as it had already been back to the dealership a couple of times for what, I can’t remember now.
My previous car was a 2001 Jetta TDI and it had gone through two injection pumps in 101 K miles, and by the time I sold it and bought the Honda, diesel fuel never dropped below the price of regular. In my early TDI days, diesel was always cheaper oh, 8 months of the year, and then rose every winter during heating oil season.
I bought the Jetta, because years before, we had a neighbor who bought a Mercedes 220 that would probably run on anything combustible you poured into its tank and do it for a LONG time.
In 1988, I drove a Fiat Ducato (think Italian Mercedes Sprinter) with a diesel and a manual 5-speed (5 on the tree!) from Milan and all over the country down to Amalfi and back to Milan, via Rome. I’m pretty sure it had a VM 4-banger. In first gear, accelerating around a tight corner, it would occasionally roast one of the front tires it was trying to send power through. But it sounded pretty unhappy above 100 kph/62 mph.
20 km short of the Milan airport, the fuel gauge showed a little less than an eighth of a tank, but there was nothing left for it to sip. An aid vehicle showed up and gave us a splash and go. There was a little lever on the injection pump that re-primed the injection system and we didn’t have to abuse the starter motor to get going again and drop it off and catch our flight.
When I was in high school, my dad was a short haul driver pulling bottom dump gravel trailers and bought a ’72 Kenworth with a 350 Cummins and a 13-speed RoadRanger transmission.
Many years later, when Dodge/Ram went all butch, I laughed at its grill, trying to look trucky. Every pickup truck maker, including even Toyota (!!!), followed suit. They are all so fugly now!
The only pickups I wouldn’t be embarrassed to be seen in are the Ford Maverick and Ranger and the Honda Ridgeline. And even the Ridgeline is being restyled to look more macho.
I owned and loved a 2018 Jeep GrandCherokee Ecodiesel. The engine was honestly fantastic, I never had an issue with the engine for the 104,400 miles I drove it. It had the grunt and the manners of a perfect highway cruiser. My 1100 mile round trips from college to home and multiple cross country road trips can confirm this. The 18s were post scandals, and the throttle delay was insane, and you needed to plan out acceleration a bit, but it wasn’t awful.
In my home city of Denver, I’d average 20, and if I kept it at 70 I’d average 28. On one trip I averaged 30mpg at 70 the entire trip from Denver to Nashville.
The Jeep was actually what started my family’s obsession with light duty diesels. Soon after, there was a Q7 TDI and a Beetle convertible TDI in my family’s driveway. At one point we didn’t own a single gas vehicle.
There were times where I’d hit 19mpg though. Usually that was when the achilles heel of every modern diesel was acting up. The problem with the ED was the emissions system. Early on two DPFs failed, one at 10k mi and the other at 20k mi. Then the DEF injector went at 45k, then around 60k the PMS failed and a downstream sensor failed.
The other issue everyone ran into was that 2014-2015 EDs had the wrong oil specification initially. They rectified that with a TSB recommending Rotella T6 5W-40 and requiring it on all 16+ model years. Unfortunately some peoples bearings went before that TSB came out. The EGR cooler never failed on mine, but I had the recall done as soon as the fix was available. Also, FCA was the ONLY OEM to recall the CP4 HPFP in both the Cummins and the EcoDiesel.
The oil changes at a dealer used to be exactly 157 dollars. Not insane but not cheap. Unfortunately at the start of 2024, the OEM filters price rose to 87 dollars just for the filter. To get an oil change at the dealer it would cost 250ish dollars. It was 200 at an Indy shop.
I unfortunately sold it a few months ago. I actually cried when I handed the keys over just because I did love that thing. It was one of the few vehicles that felt like it had a personality. I wish I could have kept it.
I call $157 oil changes insane. I understand that’s not that much worse than most cars that need ~$100 oil changes, but I think $100 oil changes are insane, because my oil changes cost >$30. There is NOT $70 of labor in an oil change.
Imagine my surprise when I called a local dealer for the cost of an oil change and they said 300 bucks… 157 was expensive but, eh 57 bucks additional is manageable… but to double it. No thanks. Cheapest I could do was myself and that was still 120ish after it was all said and done with a Wix filter.
Don’t get me started on the 25 dollar fuel filters. It required 2 and since the HPFP recall the interval went from 20-30k to 10k.
There is when the engineers forget that in order for people to change the oil at regular intervals, they have to be able to, you know, change the oil. Most vehicles are fine, but there are still far too many where the drain plug, filter, and/or fill port are in hard to reach places, or places where it’s impossible to not get oil everywhere you don’t want it. My dad decided to change the oil on his 2019 Ram 1500 at home after the cost to get it done at the dealer jumped, and I had some time to kill and did it for him. And I quickly realized that the extra cost was well worth it.
The one newer vehicle I’ve had that I really regret getting rid of was the 2.8L Duramax powered Canyon. That engine gave great power and economy and was just about perfect for a midsizer.
My 2.7-equipped F150 got similar fuel economy, cost less, and was way faster than any of the diesel 1/2 ton options. Fuel economy while towing might have been marginally worse, I got 16mpg towing my Miata on an open trailer. I can’t imagine the diesel would have been enough better to justify the added cost, especially for one trip a month.
Came here to say this.
The Ecodiesel was neat, but neat for like 2014-2018. That little 2.7 is seriously slept on as superior to A LOT of engines.
An ecodiesel will get 30mpg all day with careful driving, but a 2.7 F150 will get 26-27 while running on cheaper fuel, cheaper oil, being cheaper to buy, and being dead nuts reliable.
The 2.7 EB is a sweetheart engine in the F150’s
I guess it depends on your definition of similar fuel economy. My experience (i.e. my driving style) is that the diesel F-150 gets about 15% better fuel economy than the 2.7 when empty in the 70 – 80 mph range. Just to check myself, I found that Fuelly puts the difference at 16%. Comparing the 2.7 to the 3.0L Duramax, Fuelly shows that the diesel gets 35% better fuel economy.
Not that the 2.7L is a bad engine, but if you travel in areas where diesel is similar or cheaper than RUG, I don’t find it to be the most economical choice, even when you factor in DEF and more expensive oil.
I would love to see these and the data they collected on the response. I think you’d get one of the more interesting studies of american culture in the recession era out of looking at these
my dad and I went and drove one of these when they came out, having been converted to diesel by Volkswagen in the few years before.
we remember thinking that whatever value the powertrain had would never justify having to live with the interior. man it was awful.
A diesel-obsessed friend of mine bought one of these and spent 5 figures trying to keep it on the road, ultimately failing.
People on forums and comment sections always claim to have wonderful experiences with diesels, so I have to wonder if me and my circle are uniquely unlucky or if some of the stories simply aren’t true.
Probably both. I had a Dodge diesel from 06 to 23. Bought it new never modified it and it was trouble free for 178k. That said the mileage was never as good as the internet would have you believe that plus the extra cost of diesel met operating costs were close to a wash compared to gas. Despite this resale beat similar gas trucks by probably what the engine option was new.
There is definitely a cult around diesel engines that amplifies the advantages and downplay the disadvantages.
My opinion is, emissions, horsepower wars and a desire for a more civilized diesel killed the main advantages of reliability and efficiency.
Man I’m sorry to hear. I just finished writing a comment on my sappy love story with my GrandCherokee ED. From my research and after living with one for 6 years, you either got a good one or you got a very bad one. Mine had emissions issues through the years but that’s all modern diesels. I never had a severe mechanical issue though.
I think the use case has narrowed. Before emissions equipment, you could warm them up for 30-minutes before leaving your driveway, idle them at a job site or overnight without any concerns. I don’t idle a modern diesel for 5 minutes, even if it’s -45F. The other thing is that they whisper “tune me” every time you turn the key.
I’ve had almost none of the diesel issues except for a DEF nozzle on a Touareg at 140,000 miles (I soaked to nozzle in distilled water to fix that) and a DPF on a Duramax at 190,000 miles which I admittedly tuned.
Didn’t GM put the 6.2/6.5 in half ton trucks in the 80’s and 90’s.
They sure did!
Yeah, I’m not entirely sure what FCA meant in its press release. I’m sure (hope?) they meant the first in the 2010s or the first in over a decade or something along those lines.
My guess is some obscure qualifier like first 6 cylinder or something
Well that trophy does go to Dodge, but 30-some years prior, when they stuck a Mitsubishi inline 6 diesel in the D100.
Yep, at least until ‘96. Possibly ‘98. The 6.2 and 6.5 were also available on Suburbans (both 1/2 and 3/4 ton) and I believe they could be ordered in Tahoes and Yukons as well. I wonder if the GMT400 Escalade had a diesel option?
Great info. As far as the Escalade, it didn’t have one in the GMT400.
Yup. I had a ’93 half ton Silverado extended cab with the 6.5. I loved it despite having almost 300k on it and having been hit hard in the front before I bought it. I had a local shop do an “alignment” that was nowhere near factory specs, but it quit eating tires. I regularly got in the low 20’s for fuel economy, even as tired as it was.