It’s no secret that the Autopians form the greatest car community in the world. From helping find hit-and-run suspects to resurrecting shitboxes, our collective knowledge base is absolutely gargantuan, and we like to use it for good. How about we try to use a little bit of that brain power to help get an expedition vehicle going again?
Canadian motorsports legend and stunt driver Andrew Comrie-Picard is on a quest in a 2023 Ford Super Duty, and this rig broke down a short time ago on a continent far, far away from AAA’s service area: Antarctica.
Obviously, a breakdown near the South Pole is bad news, and this Antarctic issue is particularly weird. It’s unusual enough in its nature that Comrie-Picard has turned to Instagram for help, posting the situation on his grid along with a data snapshot pulled from third-party Ford diagnostics suite ForScan.
View this post on Instagram
Just in case you can’t see the embedded post, I’m block-quoting the caption here.
Ok my Super Duty Powerstroke people – we’re 700 miles from the South Pole in Antarctica we have a crank no-start on a 2023 Super Duty 6.7 Chassis Cab. With ForScan we get either no sync between cam and crank sensors, or we get a sync on initial crank and get a cough but then that goes away after a moment, sync is lost.
We’ve replaced the cam sensor (with the 2023 part number black one, one in the truck was 2022 spec grey for some reason. We will try a replacement grey now too) and checked the three wires from the cam sensor plug to the PCM which are continuous and not shorted. Both the power wire and the signal wire show 5v.
We think we got a p0343 code of cam sensor voltage over limit previously, but now we may not be able to replicate it with just cranking.
Anything we’re not thinking of? Immobilizer error? Anything else? Fuel pressure in the rails is ok. Bad picture of log for attention. The yellow spike is a moment of sync. The other image shows crank signal active.
Thanks in advance!
(And don’t worry mom we’ll be ok)
First off, it’s relieving to hear that Comrie-Picard has spare parts on hand, but that doesn’t mean sailing’s smooth in Antarctica. Generic OBDII code P0343 indicates a signal issue from the Bank A camshaft position sensor, and this signal is critical for kicking off injector timing upon start-up. However, the strange thing here is that the wires from the cam sensor plug to the PCM are claimed to show continuity. It doesn’t seem to be the case of a signal wire having gone open somewhere down the harness, so it must be something else, right?
Unfortunately, I am of limited use here, mostly because it’s the week between Christmas and New Year’s Day and my brain is absolute mush, but partly because I have no idea what the wiring looks like for a Bank A cam position sensor on a 6.7-liter Powerstroke and don’t have the manual required to know what’s going on.
So, if you know a thing or two about these late-model Powerstroke trucks, this is where you come in. There has to be a smarter move than just hoping it’s a bum sensor, loading the parts cannon, spraying, and praying, right? I’m not saying this is a common enough issue to warrant a TSB, but given how many of these trucks are sold, surely someone has to have seen this exact same issue before. If this tale from Antarctica gives you deja vu, holler.
(Photo credits: Ford)
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Man, I wouldn’t trust a modern vehicle to drive across the country, let alone going to the south pole. Too many electronics, too many dealer-specific tools needed, etc. Doesn’t matter what brand, every new car is way too troublesome and while you might have a new car warranty, it still doesn’t make being stranded in BFE any better.
The sweet spot is in cars from the 90’s through the early 2000’s, when they had simple but reliable fuel injection, easy troubleshooting, and in the vast majority of cars from that era you can comfortably drive across the country with an extra fuel pump and maybe a crank sensor, because that’s the only stuff that can really strand you as far as the engine goes. Pair that with a good spare tire and some extra accessory belts and you’re truly unstoppable.
Weird take, we pput about 1500 miles a week on our new trucks. Just sold a 2017 SD with 317k, plus one 2022 at 220k and another at 160k. The only thing they consistently need is a NoX sensor at some point, otherwise it’s just oil changes and fuel filters
Man, new cars are shockingly more reliable than you think, unless you’re ridiculously unlucky, incompetent, or don’t do any research before buying.
Maybe my experience is tainted by the fact that I work at a BMW dealership, but uhhh they are not reliable at all. So many of them need quite a lot of help to get through the warranty period, and every repair is a 4 (or 5) digit bill afterwards. I have a buddy who works for Hyundai and another one that works for Acura and their experiences are similar. Basically anything that’s got turbos and/or hybrid technology is bound to be a nightmare to own long term.
Thats what I was thinking too. Too complicated. A Tahoe or Yukon GMT400 Vortech 5.7 or GMT800 with some backup spares would be my choice.
I see immobilizer error is on the initial list. Why would any sane person take a truck to Antarctica with an immobilizer system?
Given how mission critical an engine is, and how little it consumes at idle, why did they even shut it off?
These expeditions carry dozens of backup parts and usually lots of extra fuel in case of emergency. If I were doing such a thing, I’d take a little more fuel to have the engines running 24/7 the whole time.
They’re crossing during the Antarctic summer. They should be in motion about 14-16 hours a day. Keeping them running the rest of the time during 45 days would only add about 60 gallons. Budget 1 hour to set camp, 1 hour to break camp, and 6-8 hours to sleep.
Having a hot engine would also make a lot of the other things they’re going through and processes they’re experiencing much faster and easier by heating water. A secondary cooling loop going through an insulated tank would make that very easy to accomplish.
Having hot water is great for cooking and cleaning. Dropping prepackaged food into a hot water bath makes most meal prep dead simple. Instant coffee is truly instant. Or rehydrating dried rations. I’m sure that having a hot shower every day or two would be very nice. And a simple electric pump could make heated tents, or at least heated mattress pads, a reality.
Finally, I agree with everyone else who said a modern sensor-laden, computer-controlled vehicle wouldn’t be my first choice for this sort of thing. I’d go as modern as fuel injection. Not much further.
Which diesel doesn’t use fuel injection? So exactly at what point of modernization of diesels would you stop?
Note that they say they have traced the issue to a modification they made. What that is they haven’t specified yet.
Given that they are probably sponsored in part by Ford, I assume a more primitive vehicle wouldn’t actually be an option.
But running it 24/7 would still be in the plans, as much for the benefits mentioned as the reliability of not having any cold starts.
Not sponsored by Ford, as far as I could tell
Checked their website, and it’s not obvious, but still looks sponsored to me…
The Press Kit includes details about the three Ford vehicles used, and their route specifically included a stop in Dearborn.
I do think there’s a sponsor relationship, but as far as sponsorships go, either this one is intentionally discreet, or Ford isn’t getting full value for their money.
Maybe they didn’t want to sponsor it in case it broke down, and they were waiting to sponsor it after they got back?
Kind of want to know what mod it was that caused failure…
Sure, AAA won’t come to replace their battery, but have they thought about the Astro-Afro-Antarctico-Amer-Asian Auto Association? Good old Septuple-A.
Weird issues that are probably electrical, I’m guessing the 12v battery.
I’m with the other Commenters on this one, a modern vehicle is worse than an older simple one.
My piece of advice would be to look at things that are stuck in the cold and not getting warm, at all, from the engine. Things that have become “cold soaked” with no possibility to get warm.
I like the relay suggestion.
Or, snow/ice odged somewhere causing a short.
Heh – Xmas is here again, ’cause there’s no el. 😀
Have they tried swapping the run/start relay with a known good relay?
Fleet tech here and this was the bane of our existence. For whatever reason this relay would cause all the gremlins and codes. Cycle the key or let the vehicle sit for a few hours and it would start like nothing was ever wrong. Another key flick and it’s back to no crank/no start.
Besides dogpiling on driving a modern Ford product into the wilderness;
Almost certainly isn’t a bad battery as it would be showing a failed synchronization code with a slow crank speed and probably has a backup strategy to at least let the engine idle without a synchronization solution.
A P0343 and any “circuit high” code is almost always caused by a missing or high resistance ground. You can only find full open circuits with a multimeter. They’re useless for checking the ability of a wire to carry current. I hope they brought a 100mA test lamp to verify ground(s).
From experience with these, the harness has several spots where this very not smooth engine likes to break the wires from the harness flopping around.
An emergency repair would be to take a new ground wire from where you know it isn’t broken at the sensor and run it to where you know the old wire isn’t broken going into the PCM.
/2cents
My thoughts too just put much better
The solution is to not buy a Ford
Guess #1 (hopeful):
it needs new 12v batteries
Guess #2 (not hopeful):
Since this is a very modified vehicle, I’m assuming that a certain amount of aftermaket electrical stuff has been added… I can’t tell you how many fucking times this has cause other issues on things like cop cars. One time it would force a crown vic to think it was overheating when you turned on the police lights, and it shutdown cylinders to compensate (like the Northstar)
Guess #3 (not hopeful):
Some of these 6.7 diesels would have their “press fit” (garbage) crank gear walk out of timing just enough to cause codes and starting/driving issues. Since this climate is crazy cold, heating/cooling of metals will be more extreme.
I really hope that it’s #1 or something less complex, and I really want to be wrong about #2 and #3….
Looks like you were right on number 2. They say they traced the problem to an unspecified modification they made.
Interesting… I’m just happy they figured it out!
Random electrical issues on vehicles can vary between being simple, to the absolute worst thing to diagnose ever. I’ve hunted down some wiring issues that did make me start to feel kinda crazy, wishing the job was something easier, like a heater core in a 5th gen Camaro.
Sounds like the overall problem is their Frigid Overland Route Destination.
I can help but ask- Why use consumer pickup trucks for the expedition instead of something along the lines of a Snowcat that is built from start to handle this kind of environment? They’ve obviously made a lot of mods to make the trucks more suitable here, but Antarctica is such an extreme environment that I would go for vehicles that give me every possible advantage.
I was thinking convertible but different strokes…
I don’t know why they’re showing so much fuel pressure data when they have a cam sync issue
Show a good crank/cam/sync signals
Unfortunately on the RAM side here we have pretty common failures with crankshaft tone wheels failing causing crank/no start/no fault
Hopefully that’s not their problem or they’re walking back
They’ll need to get a good scope reading of both crankshaft and camshaft signals to get a good idea of the problem and it would really suck for them if they didn’t buy a $100 pocket oscilloscope before making that trip.
Looks like they have used the Itchy Boots strategy and gone for a simpler foundation from the past that is better serviced in the sticks. A modern electronic vehicle seems to be a big risk.
It would seem that highly complicated technology – while advantageous under conditions of easily available professional service – performs rather poorly if it requires troubleshooting far from help.
I’d trust the 1960s-era Apollo Guidance Computer to get me to the moon and back safely more than I’d trust the iPhone running an app to do the same thing, despite the much vaunted processing advantage of the smartphone.
Maintenance engineer (Mech E) with 25 + years industrial experience. Give me a time-tested, proven solution every time for critical components. State of the art is great running in the background, but I won’t count on it.
https://clubvw.solweb.com.au/assets/images/austhistory/Antarctica11.jpg
In the early 1960s some Australian scientists in Antarctica used VW Beetles that were almost completely if not actually 100% stock (stock as in Scandinavian-spec, that is, the Australian VW dealer had to change the Beetles from Australian-spec to Scandinavian-spec but still using factory parts so indeed stock) for a number of years with remarkably few problems.
Here’s a good video:
https://youtu.be/hqr7t7nBIVA?si=H3zjt16I9CHEExn3
And here’s a good article:
https://www.clubvw.org.au/vwreference/antarctic-vws/
The right tool for the right job. I’ve seen this before. Don’t apply a Cadillac solution to a Chevrolet problem.
I’m not sure the old NASA stuff would work with today’s satellite technology.
That in itself may be a form of advantage.
Vger? Anyone?
Viger…Viger…first caught it in Italian on the Rai 1 channel from across the Mediteranean in the early 80s, then for a straight 40 years I thought Ornella Mutti was the bald headed lady, turned out it was Persis Khambatta.
Quick google of P0343 mentions a weak battery as a possible cause. Might be worth a look.
I like the way you think. As the (previous) owner of a ’97 Jaguar XK8, I feel uniquely qualified to fix electrical bugs by dead reckoning…Could be low voltage, but if it’s not a battery (going by Jaguarlogic) it’s a loose ground wire…Look for one of those…Blown fuses, bad relays…
Jelly fuel? But I see it’s a balmy 30F in much of Antarctica today.
Of course, I don’t really know what I’m talking about. You own a diesel. I own a Jaaaag. Or used to.
What else causes crank-no start? Call the dealer. MacCaulay Ford in Invercargill, NZ isn’t too far according to Google Maps! They are closed now, but they’ll be open in the morning!
They’ll have it fixed in a flash. Bob’s your uncle!
*don’t say it don’t say it don’t say it*
*inhales*
THAT’S BUILT FORD TOUGH RIGHT THERE
(I’m sorry)
I would snidely remark that he can fix it by buying a Toyota next time, but the new Tundra isn’t exactly nailing it in the engine-not-breaking department.
Hey Ford, this thing isn’t even two years old. You should have someone on the line with these guys helping them fix it right now instead of them having to hope the internet has a solution. I don’t care if their use voids the warranty. It’s not a good look for you either way.
Just buy a Hilux. If Jeremy and James can get there with it who can’t?
I think the company that built this also builds similar Hilux artic trucks. Not without issues though, see 5.0 minutes into this video
https://youtu.be/E_nihtzZekY?si=4T_M4UQ5HcM05Hu-
Ford is aware of these guys. We covered it internally about a year ago when an email from a certain product comms guy with a high profile on social got forwarded to me. I sent a reporter and a photog down for their visit to world headquarters.
https://www.at.ford.com/us/en/home/news-media/news/2024/1/transglobal-artic-ready-whq.html
I would assume there’s communication happening. I also think the guys who are diagnosing a ground issue or a faulty relay are probably onto something, given my experience with how stuff behaves in the cold.
It’s also summer in Antartica right now, FWIW, so it might actually be colder in some parts of the U.S.
Better than being there with a truck built like a rock?
It was converted to run Jet Fuel too.
BTW, it’s not just 2 guys stuck out on the ice in the middle of no where. It’s an expedition team as multiple trucks (looks like all Fords)
Thanks for that clarification – I would hope that was the case but you never know anymore.
I feel like a read about this when they first left (possibly here). But yeah, pretty serious endeavor.
https://transglobalcar.com/tpost/xjhy9ukb01-andrew-comrie-picard
So 20 influencers and no mechanic?
I would simply not take a finicky modern diesel engine to a place far from service centers.
I suspect it would also be running, 24-7-365.
I mean, what’s the youngest diesel vehicle you can name that meets that criteria?
And even then you’d still need to check it top-to-bottom to ensure that any failures that would happen are from defects, not just age and wear & tear.
Sounds cheaper to just buy new at that point.
Sounds cheaper to just buy
newgas at that point.Pfft. Loser. 😉
Ooh, I can’t wait to watch “Coldest Recovery Ever! We Rescued This Frozen SuperDuty from the SOUTH POLE!” on the next Matt’s Off-Road Recovery video.
As long as no corpses are involved, would watch. Godspeed gentlemen – I have no input.
why would there be corpses involved?
I hear they have a full support team, this was not communicated in the original post. I don’t want to witness rescue of a pair for frozen mummies.
I thought ForScan pulled the Windows software and went phone app only?
I see it listed for Windows again on their site, but you can’t get a license because of payment processor issues (Russia).
I bought a license for it when I briefly owned a 2021 F-150 Limited 4×4, on a Windows computer.
I probably confused it with a different program. Why was your F150 ownership brief?
Because I didn’t like driving a full-size truck as much as I thought I did. They are cumbersome, difficult to park, and they wander all over the road. The F-150 is especially agricultural.
Really, I think I should have bought a Ram. A Limited with the air suspension would have driven like a big S-Class.
You can still get the 2 month temporary license for free.