Stellantis and Ford are out with their quarterly financial reports and neither are great, but only one CEO is out here threatening to murder brands. Can you guess the company and the CEO? You and I both know it’s Stellantis and our buddy Carlos Tavares.
I’ll keep this in some kind of logical order this morning, so let’s kick it off with a quick dip into the Stellantis numbers and why they’re so bad. We’ll then follow it up with all the brands that Tavares is threatening to knock off, ranked by how likely that’ll happen.
How’s Ford doing? Ford is doing fine. It’s still losing money on electric cars, but its commercial vehicle unit is killing it right now.
And, finally, Volvo is rethinking its plans to go all-EV and instead is thinking about those hybrids. Alright, let’s dump!
Stellantis Is Either In A Rough Transition Or Boned
It’s almost as if trying to squeeze as much money as you can out of old product, making your suppliers hate you, and firing a bunch of engineers doesn’t always work. I wrote at the end of the first quarter that I was concerned that Stellantis couldn’t stick the landing and, so far, Stellantis has not stuck the landing.
This was always going to be a rough year for the company as it starts to roll out new cars while, at the same time, trying to sell a backlog of its older models. The pandemic years were great for the Stellantis, as it was able to book huge profits because of vehicle scarcity and low interest rates. That wasn’t going to last forever.
Still, it feels like they’re doing worse than I’d have guessed. This isn’t to say that it’s hopeless or that Carlos Tavares, pictured, doesn’t have a plan. He does seem to have a plan, it’s just I’m not convinced that plan will work.
You can look at the whole first half presentation here and see how the company tries to rah rah the weak results. Stellantis as a whole made a net profit of $6 billion in the first half of the year, which sounds good until you consider that’s down a lot compared to the $8.3 billion they did in the first six months of 2023. Revenues are down 14% and the company’s margin dropped to 10%, which isn’t the worst in the industry but is bad for Stellantis.
Here’s how Tavares put it:
The Company’s performance in the first half of 2024 fell short of our expectations, reflecting both a challenging industry context as well as our own operational issues. While corrective actions were needed and are being taken to address these issues, we also have initiated an exciting product blitz, with no fewer than 20 new vehicles launching this year, and with that brings bigger opportunities when we execute well. We have significant work to do, especially in North America, to maximize our long-term potential. I want to thank every employee for their teamwork and commitment during this very consequential chapter of our story.
What’s the product, exactly, that’ll take them to the next level? This is what I want to know. The new Dodge Charger is interesting, I’m super excited about the Ramcharger, but that’s about it right now.
Ok, So Then What Should Stellantis Kill?
I’m not saying Stellantis should kill any brands, but Tavares, pictured above, is suggesting that this is what’s going to happen if certain brands can’t keep up.
This comes from Reuters:
“If they don’t make money, we’ll shut them down,” Carlos Tavares told reporters after the world’s No. 4 automaker delivered worse-than-expected first-half results, sending its shares down as much as 10%.
“We cannot afford to have brands that do not make money.”
Wasn’t this the same guy who, like, three years ago said that all these brands had ten years to prove their worth? Yes, it’s the same guy.
“For the time being, we love them all,” Tavares said from his home in Portugal during an Automotive News World Congress webinar. “Each (brand) CEO has 10 years for which I am telling him or her that he has the funding, the ability to build his long-term business plan and plan for the different product launches and technologies to make the brand grow or rebound and create value for the company.”
Ok, so he doesn’t quite feel that way now that the pandemic is over and he’s not raking in money. So here is, I think, a list of brands they’ll cut in order from least to most likely.
SAFE BRANDS
- Jeep – That’s where the money is, at least for now. The company’s one true global brand.
- Leapmotor – This isn’t a first-in/first-out situation. Leapmotor is the most recent brand in the portfolio and cheap Chinese-built EVs are seen as the future so it would be wild to cut it just after bringing it on board.
- Peugeot – Stellantis is at least partially owned by the French state, so good luck with that.
- Fiat – Over Agnelli/Exor’s dead body right? The Italians are never gonna let this happen.
- Ram – That’s where a lot of money is, at least in the Americas.
- Citroën – The value of this brand is questionable, but I don’t see the French government supporting this.
- Dodge – It’s too American to cut. A Stellantis without Dodge is not the same company.
PROBABLY SAFE BRANDS
- Opel – It’s a strong, recognizable European brand with a decent portfolio.
- Vauxhall – I guess the same as above, but take about 25% off there.
- Abarth – If you’ve got Fiat you might as well keep Abarth.
- Alfa Romeo – It’s not a great brand in the United States, but there’s enough European appeal that it’s hard to see this going away.
HARDER TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR
- Maserati – Someone wants Maserati, but it cost the company $90 million this year in losses, so maybe that someone is not Stellantis.
THE REDUNDANCIES
- Chrysler – Chrysler has a minivan and… that’s it. Nothing else. We know that it’ll get more, but does America need two different car brands? This would suck.
- DS – Hey, DS! France’s Chrysler. I love the DS brand and there was a time when the former-PSA did a good job of making unique DS cars. Those days are behind us now.
- Lancia – Hey, it’s Italy’s DS! Why does this brand still exist?
That’s my guess, at least.
[Ed Note: I think Maserati is the first to go. And if we’re using our brains and not our hearts, Alfa is right there after it. I also think Ram should just be Dodge again. -DT].
Ford’s Quarter Was Not Great, Not Terrible
Ford’s Q2 report is also out and the company saw revenues of about $48 billion, which was higher than what was expected, but its net income of $1.8 billion and EPS (earnings per share) were a little lower than expected.
What’s going on with Ford? Quality, quality, quality. All those warranty claims are starting to pile up and weigh down the automaker’s profits according to the press release:
Profitability was affected by an increase in warranty reserves, though efforts to lift the quality of new products are starting to pay off, with positive implications for customer satisfaction and Ford’s operating performance.
Ford split itself into three big divisions: Ford Blue (regular cars/hybrids), Ford Model e (electric cars), and Ford Pro (commercial vehicles/trucks). Ford Pro is killing it, making a 15.1% margin and bringing in $17 billion in revenue in Q2. Ford Blue made more in revenue at $26.7 billion, but with a much lower margin of 4.4%, so it’s less profitable overall.
And Ford Model e? It lost $400 million less than it had a year prior, but pricing pressure resulted in a -99.5% margin, which is real bad.
Volvo: Let’s Make Some More Hybrids
Year of the Hybrid? More like Decade of the Hybrid. Volvo has been the most militant of the major brands about going fully electric after 2030.
Let’s check in with Automotive News to see how that’s going:
Volvo Chief Commercial Officer Bjorn Annwall vowed last year that the automaker would not “sell a single car” globally that is not fully electric after 2030.
“There’s no ifs, no buts,” Annwall told Automotive News in June 2023.
Now, faced with slumping EV sales in key markets such as China and the U.S., Volvo’s leadership could be reconsidering going all-in on battery power.
Automotive News checked in with an unnamed dealer, who said the following:
“We will have to, or we will die,” said a dealer who requested not to be identified. “Volvo has gotten way out over their skis with this EV-only strategy.”
In the next decade, Volvo will focus on supplying plug-in hybrids while the EV market matures in the U.S. and elsewhere, said a person familiar with the company’s plans.
“They are keeping their fingers crossed that PHEVs will start to be looked at favorably by the different governments,” said the person, who asked not to be identified while speaking about internal matters.
Life comes at ya fast.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I will once again restate my belief that every Fiona Apple album is better than the last, but her debut “Tidal” is 28 years old this week and it’s worth revisiting how earth-shatteringly wonderful that album was. The video for “Never is a Promise” is also intense in a good way. What a talent!
The Big Question
You gotta kill five Stellantis brands. Who you picking?
“Chrysler – Chrysler has a minivan and… that’s it. Nothing else. We know that it’ll get more, but does America need two different car brands?”
People who buy Hellcats and Rams want to be as far removed from the image of haggard, sweatpants wearing, in broad daylight white wine swilling, dead mom walking, minivan driving soccer moms as possible. So for that keep Chrysler.
So, worn down, sweatpants wearing, Busch beer crushing, overcompensating men won’t drive a vehicle from the same brand as their wives?
No because when they do it it’s cool.
Until I read this, I didn’t even cross my mind. And now, having travelled to some backwater places in the ‘states, I could see this be a real thing.
Then how do you explain Chevy selling so many Corvettes and Camaros when nearly the entire rest of the lineup, except the pickups, is soccer mom mobiles of different shapes and sizes?
Those on Camaro/Corvette Chevys are SUVs, not minivans. SUVs might be used at any moment go drive up a boulder studded mountain, tow an aircraft carrier or do something “tactical” so the men don’t mind driving those too.
That’s fair. Though personally I can’t help feel somewhat embarrassed the times I’ve driven my sister-in-law’s Traverse or my other sister-in-law’s Equinox. I suppose the former’s 2nd gen Traverse is better than the 1st gen Traverse she used to have..
Hellcats and all the other performance versions coexisted with Grand Caravans in the same showrooms for several years, so I don’t think that’s too much of an issue.
Could the Hellcat shoppers see the Caravans? I’d have put them in separate showrooms and on opposite sides of the lot.
I don’t think minivans are that big a bother to that buyer as they aren’t going to drive one anyway and would be more likely to just write them off as “not a real Dodge” if needed. Unless paint colors they offered like “White Knuckle” and “Contusion Blue” really changed some tunes. But the Caravan was one of the longest-running nameplates Dodge had, never really a secret.
Secret, no. But as they say denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
It seems fair to say that Stellantis has been industriously killing all of these brands. Next to Elon Musk, Carlos Tavares seems like the CEO least interested in building cars.
Thanos was the biggest environmentalist in the whole universe.
I think opel and Vauxhall would both be gone former as they were GM brands that GM didn’t even want anymore. Abarth would most likely just become part of fiat. Ram should just go back to being dodge and kind of the same with Chrysler should just be put under the Dodge brand. Badge engineering never really made sense to me unless there was a big difference in the vehicles style wise.
I agree with all the reorganizing comments. Lots of meaningful consolidation could be done to remove redundancy without losing out of the uniqueness of the brands. Stellantis is the new GM absorbing unique brands, making 8 versions of the same vehicle (Trailblazer, Envoy, Saab 9-7 or Savana, venture, silhouette, Terraza, Montana), then killing half the brands.
At least GM didn’t burn money by making all their brands have completely different bodyshells… and then they reused the stampings when they killed brands! (Like how the Saturn Outlook bodyshell was reused to facelift the GMC Acadia)
Stellantis brands that can go away or should probably combine.
Kill Peugeot and Citroen, make Peugoën
Abarth? Why is that a separate company and not just a Fiat Special edition?
Kill Opel and Vauxhall, make Ophall. They were both GM brands previously anyway.
Screw DS and Lancia
Dodge and Chrysler are hard to justify if they don’t figure it out.
While I see the benefits of the electric and turbo sixes. the ram trucks and charger/challenger replacement really gets hurt by mustangs and 5.0 F150’s. Fewer and fewer people truly want or buy the v8, but the halo effect of having them available certainly helps.
Chrysler and Ram, not dead just consolidate under Dodge brand. If they get more upscale offerings launch them under Imperial subbrand.
Lancia, dead.
DS, dead.
Maserati, sell?
On a less serious note consolidate Fiat and Peugeot under the Peugeot brand since this tracks with Stellantis feud with the Italian government.
I thought the chrysler airflow concept was potentially strong. the interiors of the rams are getting to be pretty solid, so why not offer a 3 row SUV on the Ram 1500 chassis, but call it a chrysler/dodge like the GM suv offerings. add in the Hybrid ramcharger option. or would that eat into the big jeep options too much?
There could be room for that. I would definitely lean into Jeep being a lifestyle brand with a skew toward off road. This should give enough space to do a Dodge 3 row suv. Also I’d do a follow up to the Journey. The cheapest 3 row crossover on the market will always have sales.
TBQ: How about 4 go away and one gets sold? The 4 that go away: Citroën, Vauxhall, Abarth, DS. Maserati gets sold, likely to Ferrari.
Abarth makes no sense, especially because it doesn’t even have its own car. It’s an SRT, without the Viper. Citroën isn’t even considered anything better than Peugeot, so Alfa would make more sense in its place. Vauxhall is just another Opel, that’s just more rebranded stuff. Vauxhall is redundant, just like DS.
If Ram ever got folded back to Dodge, I’d never buy another Stellantis product again. Ram trucks are nothing compared to Dodge cars. Putting Ram back into Dodge is like putting merging Bugatti into Volkswagen, or Pagani into Mitsubishi. Nothing about one’s image or product is anything remotely close to the other. People only want it because they want to say “Dodge Ram” again, which is a stupid reason.
Thank you. It’s crazy to me how many people think Ram should go, when it’s clearly one of the strongest brands they have. What is Dodge doing these days to justify any more investment?
Returning Ram back to Dodge would do nothing to harm Ram and would simplify things a bit. While you’re at it, move the Pacifica under the Dodge brand and let Chrysler also die.
IMO Chrysler and Ram are the more valuable brands to keep. Dodge is the one who should go. They provide nothing than couldn’t be handled by the other brands.
You know what? Six of one, half-dozen of the other. Take away Jeep and CJDR has more brands than models. Trim that fat.
That’s the thing though, in the view of the public Ram ISN’T a brand, it’s a model line. People still refer to it as a Dodge Ram, dealership branding still goes heavily into Dodge even at – in fact, especially at – dealers where Ram is their money line. Killing Dodge would actually do a ton of damage to Ram even though they are technically different brands, because the public perception has been so tightly bound together.
Ram managed the seemingly impossible trick of simultaneously being an incredibly successful product and a complete branding failure.
“Ram managed the seemingly impossible trick of simultaneously being an incredibly successful product and a complete branding failure.”
This is a perfect description of Ram!
I disagree on the Ram front. The point so many are trying to make is ONLY enthusiasts even think of “Ram” as distinct from Dodge. So while it may cause you to never buy another, for most of the Ram/Dodge world it would just remove an odd redundancy they don’t really understand. I think your examples are off target. No one has 30 years of history buying VW Bugatti before Bugatti split off on its own. No “normie” has any idea Pagani has anything to do with Mitsubishi.
So rolling Ram back in to Dodge just undoes something most people don’t really care about.
However, Ram became its own brand for a reason I think. Honestly, I think it was to done to protect Ram. Basically, “you Europeans don’t know jack about big trucks” so they sectioned Ram off and the contracts allow things to be done at Dodge that aren’t allowed at Ram. That’s my theory anyway.
One of the problems with Ram is that on its own it’s such a dumb name. “Dodge Ram” is a product. But when someone says “Ram”, unless the context is very clear, male sheep and porn come to mind long before pickups.
I haven’t been able to see how Dodge and Ram could be the same anymore since everyone, even me included, can say a lot about how premium or luxurious Rams could be, then straight-slam Dodge for the same things. Maybe using Bugatti & Pagani were a stretch, but the core idea is still the same. If Ram was treated like Dodge is, with interior, ride quality, and performance issues, then I could see it.
I was actually thinking they should roll Ram back into Dodge but you make an interesting point. I still lean a little toward Dodge being the brand because of history and… really no other reason.
But I would do it like this:
Roll all the SUVs/CUVs/Trucks etc into one brand. Make it Dodge, Ram, whatever. Bring the styling in line with all of them.
Move all the cars (and the mini van) into Chrysler. If Chrysler is too upmarket, then adjust with trim levels to keep the entry level cars lower but for the US market at least that would help the perception of cheap that Dodge cars currently have and you can offer higher trim levels with all the profitable options.
I don’t really want Maserati to go anywhere but they just can’t do anything right, outside of their design, which is amazing honestly. Probably just sell the brand to the Chinese.
I don’t think you can get rid of Citroen but I’m right there with you on combining Open and Vauxhall. Keep the badge for the Aussies if you need to but stop building separate cars.
There’s three brands right there to get rid of and reorganize it.
The thing is that Dodge’s image IS the Ram and Ram’s image IS Dodge even if they’re technically different.
Dodge’s image since 2015 has been 700 horsepower boats. Ram’s image has been premium trucks since like 2009.
The name just resonates after years of calling it that. Like what Hummer is to GMC right now. Who calls the new ones a GMC Hummer? Like, 2 people I bet.
I have not met a single person who doesn’t refer to the Ram as a Dodge.
Would you like to meet me then? Joking!
Just got back from Italy where I had a last-gen Lancia Ypsilon as a rental. 1.0L hybrid variant. What a spectacular steaming turd of a car. Therefore, Lancia tops my list.
Kill DS. It’s pointless.
Sell Maserati. The brand has value, but not to Stellantis.
Vauxhall seems redundant to Opel, so bye,bye.
Lastly, I guess Chrysler. I think it can become viable again as a mid-luxury brand in the US. Stellantis doesn’t have anything else that fits that bill. Maybe Alfa, but the reputation has a long road to overcome. I see them disappearing from the US. Again.
Does re-merging Ram and Dodge count as killing Ram? If so then do that instead of killing Chrysler.
The real question I have is if they kill Chrysler, what happens to the name of the Chrysler Building?
It becomes Dodge or RAM building.
I hope it’s the latter for comedy reasons, but regardless, nobody who is alive and aware of the building’s existence will call it either new name. Do most people refer to the second-tallest building in the US as the Willis Tower yet? I assume more still think of it as the Sears Tower.
I think we need to make a distinction between killing a brand vs killing a brand & all the unique vehicles & engineering/resources behind those vehicles, since the latter is really where the money to be saved is. For example:
Rolling RAM back into Dodge may sound good, but they’re still going to make full size trucks, the plant isn’t going to care that the giant chrome badges have 2 more characters in them, and there’s nothing to be saved in marketing. There’s no money in this move.Similar to this is Vauxhall & Opel – they’re identical besides the badge and the side the steering wheel is on – no money is saved by killing one of them. Its either all or nothing. I could see killing both, but I don’t think they’d do that considering the relative strength of the German vs French and Italian markets, and the uproar with german unions. Plus, I think they’re still bound contractually from the sale from GM to keep these alive for a bit longer.Same with Abarth vs Fiat – why bother reconsolidating?The Chrysler Pacifica could easily become the Dodge Pacifica and no one would bat an eye. Maybe go hybrid-only here to minimize overlap with the caravan? That might save a little money on variants, but might lose money on reduced economies of scale for parts shared between the Pacifica ICE & Hybrid, as well as factory down-time. Maybe it’s just time for the caravan to ride off into the sunset as a fleet-only model for a few years? Maybe there are plans for a new 300 alongside the charger, or even an Imperial to compete with the Celestiq! (yea, probably not) I can see arguments for this one either way.Killing Maserati and Lancia would save money, there’s unique low-volume variants of platforms and unique engines that wouldn’t need to exist anymore. Customers here seem like they could easily be Alfa customers anyway.
It also depends on whether dealer networks are separated — AFAIK, there are no RAM-only or Abarth-only dealerships.
You do spend some money on marketing, promotion, etc — but likely not enough to make a real difference. However, if you’re middle-management, being able to say you saved money without sacrificing any top-line revenue (as would happen by ‘killing’ Abarth or Ram) looks very appealing.
So I have seen one standalone Ram dealership, and it didn’t stay that way for long. It was in rural Oklahoma and I would drive past it for work every month or two. It was once a Plymouth / Dodge dealership (you could see the remnants of the Plymouth sign on the side of the building) that only sold Dodges, of which 90% of their stock were Ram 2500/3500 trucks. When Ram spun off they ditched Dodge completely and went only Ram. The last time I drove past it, which was about eight years ago, it had added Jeep and Chrysler but not Dodge.
I wonder if they wanted Jeep and their area rep made them take Chrysler… Jeep/Ram have affinity but Chrysler, uh…
Yeah, the Jeep made sense, but adding Chrysler without Dodge didn’t. Then again, I have to wonder if they burned a bridge ditching Dodge for Ram and then later tried to add Dodge along with Chrysler and Jeep and weren’t allowed to?
There’s a RAM only dealership in Lancaster, CA.
The advantage of consolidating brands is mostly from an administration perspective. Roll Chrysler and Ram into Dodge and you have one website, one marketing team, one set of dealer standards and documents, one of a lot of stuff that is currently unnecessarily split between three different places.
Customers already think that Rams are Dodges, the Pacifica can be a Dodge. All the dealers already sell Dodge. It just streamlines a ton of stuff that’s operating in the background.
Sure, there are some redundancies, but the big money in redundancies is in engineering, verifying, and building unique variants of vehicles to fill those brands. If none of that is happening, then it will likely cost more to buy it dealer franchise than to maintain a skeleton crew to keep it alive. Websites cost nothing in comparison to product, if the vehicle is still worth selling then you’ll advertise it regardless of brand, and the cost of a few brand leaders, as inflated as their salaries may be for worthless purposes, is a lot less than buying out dealer franchises in the USA
But no franchises would be bought out. It’s just absorbed into existing Dodge stores that they’re already paired with. No product line changes, no real marketing differences, wouldn’t even need to immediately change the signs since they just emphasize that they still have trucks.
It’s not a ton of money, but it’s still wasted money.
When I said “affinities” I meant the amount of overlap in places like marketing and product operations!
As a dealer, selling trucks and body-on-frame SUVs means there’s almost complete overlap in customer base, maintenance knowledge, and marketing. If you add a family van, well…
Merging brands reduces redundancies at higher levels and in marketing. Reduce the number of execs and you reduce overhead a lot. It can also encourage/enable a greater level of information sharing in the engineering departments, which can mean solving problems quickly and more efficiently.
Chrysler, RAM, DS and Maserati should go. Stellantis — and previous owners/managers — have worn them out. They’re no-hopers.
As for the rest: someone needs to take a deep dive into the history and character of each brand. Alfa, for example, built wonderful driver’s cars with plenty of character, and (probably) could again. Abarth should exist as a hop-up sub-brand for Fiat. Citroens were design-y cars with unique engineering features (is that even possible these days?).
Of course all this goes right out the window if Stellantis stays Stellantis, and badge-engineers cars thinking a nameplate will work magic in a particular market. Also, build quality and dealers need to be beefed-up big-time if anything is going to save the company.
I love lists. More lists and rankings please.
I love lamp.
The nuclear option, kill:
Jeep, Peugoet, Ram, Citroen, Dodge
Flagships now become:
Leapmotor, Fiat, Opel, Chrysler, Lancia
Value Brands become:
Vauxhall, Abarth, Maserati, Alfa Romea, DS
Some.people just want to watch the world burn.
Wanna reinvent the company???
Maserati as a value brand….Wow!
I look forward to David’s thorough analysis of the 2027 Lancia Wrangler.
LOL, perfect. Is it Jeep that sells, or Wrangler that sells?
I love that 3.6 roentgen quote so much.
+1 to DT: Ram should never have been Ram, it should have been Dodge Ram, which is what everyone thinks it is anyway. Did “Wagoneer” officially go away or is that still on? Dodge Caravan and Chrysler is fully superannuated.
Pull Alfa out of the US at least. It’s not really having a good showing.
Abarth can just be M/AMG, and doesn’t need to be a capital-B Brand.
So, Ram, Chrysler, Alfa, Abarth and, hm, DS? I don’t actually know any more about the low and midrange Euro brands than old Top Gear and Forza Motorsport have taught me.
Stellantis can kill all its brands for all I care. At least in the NA market, I can’t think of a single one of their products that would interest me. If one of their products was gifted to me, I’d sell it and buy something else.
Maybe Toyota is sensing an opportunity to stage a hostile takeover of Stellantis. hmm….
They should just put Ram back into Dodge. It has been over a decade and I have yet to meet a single person who DOESN’T call it a Dodge Ram.
Otherwise, Chrysler and Lancia are so starved for product so they might as well be dead. DS can just be Citroen.
I came to comment this. I have corrected several people that Ram is actually its own brand, and they either look at me like I grew an arm out of my forehead or flippantly respond that they don’t care because it is the same truck regardless of brand. I would absolutely love to meet a person who purchased a Ram truck SOLELY because it was no longer a Dodge, as I doubt they exist, and if they do they will undoubtedly be very, very strange.
I know one guy.. My coworker, who had to correct me the time I called his R A M a dodge.
If I’m killing Stellantis brands, the first step is a full reorg. Chrysler’s van gets pulled into Dodge or something else. DS and Lancia can probably be swept into Peugeot and Fiat if there’s anything in those brands worth saving. Or maybe DS/Citroen. Abarth folds into Fiat, too. Ram gets folded back into Dodge because who are we kidding?
This still leaves us with too many brands. Sell Maserati. Kill at least the US side of Alfa. Maybe kill Fiat in the US, too. We already use them as a platform for Jeep, so we could have badge-engineered Dodge Fiats, too.
Can we combine more European brands without running afoul of governments or losing loyal customer base? Then let’s do it. As for Leapmotor, keep the company, but plan on rebadging them appropriately.
Still have to kill some brands, but I really think that the solution isn’t to kill more brands, but to reduce duplication of efforts. Release the same car with different badging in different markets, not a badge-engineered version that ends up increasing costs.
Limit Jeep to the Wrangler and the Cherokee lines. The Gladiator can stay as the Wrangler pickup, but the Compass goes away and the Renegade either goes away or is the mini Cherokee.
Dodge sells the Ram pickups, the new Charlenger thing, and the van. Maybe a small car that’s just a European product badged for an American audience. Durango and Hornet go away. Buyers will go to Jeep, probably. No need to have significant overlap. If the beancounters think there’s justification for it, we do a minor rebadge of a Cherokee to have a Dodge SUV. Very minor, because we’re saving money here.
I don’t know the European product lines that well, but I think you could do a lot of streamlining with that many brands. Overlapping products become rebadges. Brands are differentiated by vehicle class and market.
I mean in the rental market they still sell the Voyager minivan with a chrysler badge. offering a lower price point option would not seem to be that hard, but chrysler needs every sale they can get when they are so limited on vehicle to sell.
Chrysler needs a difficult to identify badge engineered set of SUV’s and dodge needs to bring the D50 in and it has to look like mini Ram Pickup taking all the cues from Ford with regard to the pricing and options of the Maverick. They really needed to do that last year though, and left the overpriced, questionably made Hornet on the shelf.
I think the Voyager is dead for 2025.
Not that it matters (and at the risk of being, idk, kinda pedantic I guess), but wasn’t DS a Citroën sub-brand, and would thus make more sense to suggest it be folded back into that before suggesting Peugeot?
You’re right. I had originally written it to fold all the French brands together and then I edited and put DS with the wrong one. I personally like Peugeot, so I was going to plug them together under that name, but Citroen might be the stronger brand, really.
I don’t know the European market well enough to decide what Stellantis should do there.
Peugeot, Fiat, Vauxhall, Opel, Citroen.
Hey, I’m American and small, weird looking Euro-only stuff doesn’t appeal to me. I never said this was necessarily the financially wisest decision.
In all seriousness, I really do think those 5 brands probably have a lot of overlapping product (since not very long ago they were part of 3 separate conglomerates).
National pride probably gets in the way of some of this, but you probably only need a single “cheap” European car brand, a couple midgrade brands (Alfa and Citroen?), and Maserati on the high end.
Keep Ram, kill Dodge. Let the Charger, Durango replacement, etc be a Chrysler.
You’re basically saying the inverse of what Tavares is saying.
Tavares: Hey, I’m Portuguese and fat, roided out macho NA-only stuff doesn’t appeal to me. I never said this was necessarily the financially wisest decision.
I like my track record over his the last couple years.
Do I actually have to kill Alfa, Fiat, or Maserati? Isn’t dying just a thing they do normally?
Fiat is selling 1.3 million cars annually, they are not going anywhere
Maserati just lingered far too long in the weeds, the DS should just be a Citroen, RAM needs to be Dodge again, and Lancia, just let it die
Roll RAM back into Dodge. It makes no sense as a standalone brand.
Ooooorrrrr, we could go back to what they just tried. Instead of Wagoneer as a brand, lets roll out Wrangler as it’s own subbrand. I laugh, but honestly I am surprised they did the Wagoneer instead of Wrangler, because Wrangler has the best chance.
I agree with David about Ram. Never understood why the microbrands, and Wagoneer was definitely a silly idea that got fixed fairly easily.
Question for the knowledgeable: does Chrysler use the literal Chrysler star logo anywhere anymore? It used to appear, in minor places, all over various Dodge (and Plymouth) stuff too, but I’m guessing there’s nothing “Chrysler as a car company” specific anymore at this point?
I haven’t seen a Pentastar logo in a prominent place since pre Daimler.
I don’t know enough to answer the Big Question today. But I want to express my appreciation for Matt’s dedication to this bit:
When we had the article about the Dodge CEO “retiring” last week, and they showed his actual picture, I was stunned. I missed how Jon Lovitz became Carlos Tavares.
I missed the why of the bit myself but I’m loving the dedication!
DS and Chrysler should both be discontinued and combined into a new marque- DeSoto.