How open-minded are you feeling today? Pretty open? I hope so, because what I’m going to propose here will require that openness. But I think the end result will be worth it, because it could allow you to see an entire category of car in a whole new light. What if – and, again, I’m calling on your openness here – what if all-electric cars with one-speed transmissions are actually manual transmission cars?
Take a moment. Breathe. Just pause before responding, because I think you need to hear this out. Let’s just look at the facts: because of the nature of electric motors, and how they can produce all of their torque from zero RPM and up, they don’t really need the sorts of multi-speed transmissions that combustion-engine cars use. Generally, they have transmissions with one ratio, like, for example, the Tesla Model 3, which has a gearbox with a 9.03:1 ratio.
A Hyundai Ioniq 6 has a single-speed transmission with a gear ratio of 2.263:1. A Volkswagen ID4’s one-gear transmission has a ratio of 2.96:1, and so on, you get the idea. Now, you could think of these one-gear transmissions as automatic transmissions, because you put them in D and then never have to think about them again, at least not until you want to stop or go backward.
But! The whole point of an automatic transmission is that it automatically changes the gears – that’s the whole point of an automatic transmission – and in the case of these EV one-speed transmissions, they are not doing that, because there are no gears to shift into. They literally can’t change gears.
A CVT has no gears, technically, but there are computers and mechanisms still changing gear ratios automatically – that’s why a gearless CVT is still an automatic, because some force other than the driver is deciding to change the gear ratios.
Now, what if we think of these one-speed transmissions as manual transmissions? You are manually are putting the car into gear, and while you may be doing that by pushing a button or sliding a finger on some silly touchscreen control or moving some little lever on the steering column, it is still a physical, manual action that starts the process for the car to engage the motor to the gearbox. The car didn’t do this on its own; you made the decision, and you took the action to make it happen.
Now, there’s no clutch, of course, but there have been manual transmissions with automatic clutches before; think about the Volkswagen AutoStick (also called the Sportamatic when bolted into a Porsche)– that was a manual transmission with an automatic clutch, but you still had to shift it.
I made a whole video about that transmission way back:
Anyway, nobody would consider that an actually automatic transmission: it’s a manual, with an automatic clutch.
I think we can look at these EV transmissions in a similar way. The only reason we’re not shifting gears on them is because there are no more gears to shift into. But that shouldn’t exclude it from manual transmission status! Let’s say you have an old car with a screwed up transmission where only second gear works. If you got in that car, put it in second gear, and drove, that’s the same experience you’d have in an EV, getting in putting it in D, and driving, at least in terms of the gear-shifting actions you take.
So, all I’m saying is that we should be free to think of nearly all EVs as having one-speed, clutchless, manual transmissions. Is there a good reason for this? No. No, there isn’t. In fact, it’s pretty stupid, if we’re honest. But it somehow feels more fun. Think about how much better it’ll feel when you end up owning some EV, but you can somehow satiate your old-school gearhead urges by reminding yourself that at least you still drive a manual.
A one-speed manual with no clutch you never have to shift and feels for all the world like an automatic. But still a manual.
Because, again, in these one-speed transmissions, the driver still chooses what gear to go into. Always.
That’s a manual transmission.
Okay, now you can call me an idiot in the comments, or – and I encourage you to at least consider this plan – join me. This way, we can keep manual transmissions alive! Sort of.
Not all EVs are alike. The Renault Zoe for example (still, I think the best seller in Europe in numbers sold) has always had two gears, with the lower gear engaging at around 80kph. Pretty sure it is a CV transmission.
I’ll add my tentative agreement but maybe from a different perspective. When I had a Leaf, I would “downshift” by using the regen mode for engine braking and also by turning off the default Eco mode for more responsive acceleration. This was partially functional, partially fun, but I would argue more manual adjacent on a day-to-day basis as compared to the manu-matics I’ve had where I’ll mess around with it for a bit, get bored or annoyed and then forget about it for six months.
Oh no. Is this the Accord V6 is a muscle/pony car debacle all over again?
Mechanically speaking, an EV transmission has more in common with a manual transmission than an automatic transmission. In fact, it’s really just a simplified version of a manual transmission without a clutch or multiple gear ratios and the corresponding mechanism for changing them. From an end-user standpoint, it seems more like an automatic transmission, because you have to select Park, Drive, Neutral, and Reverse.
In that case, the Taycan is still a lame-ass automatic.
It’s time for your medicine, Torch.
Oh, he’s medicated alright! Keep up the good work Torch!
I remember the first thing I ever read of his,. In the old site, he recounted a story of when his parents were suspects in a murder. It was seriously funny.
We should demand a reprint of that, I’d love to see it.
“ Tesla Model 3, which has a gearbox with a 9.03:1 ratio.“
“ A Hyundai Ioniq 6 has a single-speed transmission with a gear ratio of 2.263:1. A Volkswagen ID4’s one-gear transmission has a ratio of 2.96:1, and so on”
That’s quite a big difference in ratio between Tesla and the other two. For a single motor on an axle you’ll have a reduction gear, and then probably another reduction stepping down to the ring gear on the diff. Is the Tesla value motor:road and the other two just the gearbox ratio? I’d expect the motors to rev to about the same speed.
I know a Bolt is like a 7.05 so yeah his Hyundai and VW numbers are either wrong or one of more than one reduction.
I’d say it is simply a transmission, neither manual nor automatic. The only action in a single speed transmission without any clutching mechanism is the transmission of torque. So as such it is a transmission with no manual or automatically selected elements. A one speed transmission is like a differential, and we don’t particularly consider differentials manual transmissions.
I would agree with this, and I would also say that when the one pedal drive is doing regenerative braking, that can feel a lot like engine braking with stick shift.
It’s the engagement, that feeling of direct attachment between the right foot pedal and the forward motion of the wheels. That is what torque converter automatics can’t do, but manuals can
Yep! I said the same thing a long time ago…
I have no issue with this assessment. Also reverse is accomplished with the motor for all those talking about “changing gears with a touch screen” and it’s a fixed ratio – closer to a manual mechanically than any other type of transmission.
Who needs shifting?
“Little Nash Rambler” lyrics – “his car pulled upside of me as if I were going slow, the guy rolled down his window, and yelled for me to hear ‘Hey buddy, how do you get this car out of second gear!”
I’m with Brian of Regular Car Reviews on this one: “NO CLUTCH PEDAL = NOT A MANUAL. BURRRP. REAL FART.”
I don’t think I will be putting a Save the manuals sticker on my EV6.
Okay – but…
You’re not using a lever to change the transmission(s) setting(s) from forward to reverse by hand.
(Plural if you have a dual-drive – because the two motors are not mechanically connected and they each have their own gear sets)
You’re pushing a button. On a screen.
Or the car is making the decision for you without any intervention on your part at all.
And a servo somewhere is changing the setting(s) within the transmission(s).
That’s an Automatic.
I can agree so far as I have in the past described driving an EV as being like driving a manual that is always in the “right” gear basically meaning there’s no delay when you accelerate as if you had already downshifted to where peak torque was, and yet it is still pleasant to drive around town. So I have kind of felt like this but maybe for a slightly different reason.
Finally, Autopian themed Thanksgiving dinner table politics. Bravo Torch.
You know, I don’t want to agree, and for the most part I don’t, but I get where you’re coming from.
However, I’m going to put my foot down and say that it’s not a manual transmission if the gear selector is not manually changing the gear. A touch screen is not a manual gear selector, a FBW stalk on a column is not a manual gear selector. They’re input signals that are sent to a computer, the computer changes the gear, not you.
If you had a giant lever that manually redirected the drive direction from forward to reverse, I’d say you’re on to something. That’s a manual transmission. But if there isn’t a direct link between your gear selector and the gearbox, I can’t accept this take.
(And yes, I know old autos used a direct link between the shifter and the transmission, but by putting it in D, you still allow it to function as an automatically shifting transmission.)
I came here to write exactly this, an EV conversion in an old car where it still has a stick to select gears even if you can just put it in 5th and drive with no use of the clutch? Manual. But the computer controlling it in my Cupra? Auto.
Torch, we entertained your literal engine porn, but I can’t accept your transmission definition views.
does this make my shaver a manual?
To expand on that it’s not even a transmission, it’s a direct drive with gear reduction. It’s no more a transmission than a rear differential is.
The reduction gearset transmits torque from the motor to the wheel or diff. That’s a transmission.
It’s certainly a box with gears in it, and in the UK we call transmissions “gearboxes”.
We call them gearboxes here in the US too, of course we’ve also called Engines Motors. To me the ‘transmission’ on modern AC motored EVs it the controller box that varies volts/amps, and the gear reduction is just that, a couple gears to reduce final drive.
You think the inverter (which is doing the job a throttle would do in an ICE) should get the name of the thing that transmits torque? And that the transmission that is still doing what it’s always done should lose its name entirely because it’s only got one ratio?
I’m not following your logic.
Yes, the inverter module is the transmission. In AC motors there is no transmission varying the torque, the inverter module is varying the amps which varies the torque output of the motor, volts = speed, amps = torque.
In an ICE car the torque is varied by the throttle (or injector cycle/ignition timing/VVTL) the transmission transmits the torque through some gears (or a belt, or a chain). That’s why they are called transmissions, they are transmitting.
Well if we’re just going by the definition of transmission then sure, a driveshaft can be a transmission.
If you aren’t using words based on their definitions then you’re using words wrong. And the transmission department department at work does the driveshafts too, so sure.
Also: on a ride-on lawnmower is the single speed transmission the transmission or is it somehow something else?
This is apples and oranges, on a gas lawn mower you are going between neutral/reverse/forward mechanically, so yes, that is an actual transmission. On an EV there is no mechanical reverse/forward/neutral, the motor is spinning forward or reverse or just free wheelin. The only thing reminiscent of a transmission on EVs is the parking pawl, which not all EVs even use, Teslas just use the parking brake. This is just my opinion, obviously we’re differing on it here, but I respect your point of view, it’s just not how I see it.
Heck of a take, all right. What would David have to say if an EV has a timing belt?
(Has there ever been an EV with a timing belt/chain??)
I mean, EV motors use sensors to detect the position of the rotor so they know when to turn each set of windings on and off. So that’s sort of a timing belt. It’s timing, anyway.
Nah, that’s basically the crank position sensor
“quadrature encoders are just timing belts!”
is a direct drive even a transmission? Also aren’t most Ev motors connected directly to the wheel hubs??
It isn’t a direct drive, there is a reduction ratio to multiply the torque and allow the motor to run at a more efficient rpm, which is why you don’t have motors directly connected to the wheels. So yes they do have a transmission which transmits the power from the motor to the wheels as well as providing the necessary torque multiplication and allowing the motor to run at a more efficient rpm.
If it doesn’t have 3 pedals, and I can’t accidentally money shift it, it’s not a manual in my book. Saying that you are “manually” selecting the gear by putting it in D is no different than putting an old school slush box in 1, 2, or 3 and calling it a manual. Heck, paddle shift DCTs should be considered manuals by that logic.