It’s the October Surprise we’ve all been waiting for! Europe will raise tariffs on Chinese automakers causing… oh, wait, that’ll likely do nothing to change anything here in the United States in the short term. It will, however, have huge political ramifications for Europe and European automakers. Looking at how different countries voted is quite revealing.
In yesterday’s Morning Dump, I tried to explain why people think that Renault-Stellantis-BMW might merge. The players involved have all chimed in and, while they’re not explicitly denying it, they do seem to be trying to lower expectations.
What’s more contentious than the EU’s plan to tax imports? Michael Jordan’s lawsuit against NASCAR. It’s nasty. And, finally, something we can all agree on. We need that.
Germany Is Mad, Sweden Is Quiet
I’ve gone into detail about the relationship that China has with Europe here (many times), and what’s interesting is we’re seeing the contrast between countries that make cars for Europe and countries that make cars for everyone else.
The European Union finally approved massive tariffs for Chinese-built EVs, citing unfair government subsidies as a threat to the local automakers. It wasn’t a huge surprise that it passed, in spite of some last-minute lobbying and grumbling, though the fact that Germany voted against it instead of abstaining was a strong sign that Germany really doesn’t want to piss off China.
Why? From Reuters:
“Today’s vote is a fatal signal for the European automotive industry. What is needed now is a quick settlement between the EU Commission and China to prevent a trade conflict from which no one gains,” BMW CEO Oliver Zipse said.
Germany voted against the tariffs in Friday’s meeting, seeking to keep good business relations with China, the world’s biggest car market.
“The fact that Germany voted against the tariffs is an important signal and increases the chances for a negotiated settlement,” Zipse said.
France, which is focused on building cars primarily for Europeans, voted for the bill, along with a mix of other countries. Sweden abstained. Why? Well, Volvo is mostly owned by Chinese-owned Geely. It’s probably also worth mentioning that the two biggest shareholders of Germany’s Mercedes-Benz are Beijing Automotive Group and Li Shufu, who is the chair of Geely.
Where is this all going? If the tariffs stay in place, as is (adding as much as 45% to the cost of a car), that’ll make China’s expansion into the EU countries difficult. But that’s not the biggest issue. China has a lot of trading partners in the EU, and if China starts targeting French Cognac and German industrial equipment then it could shake an already unsteady European economy. I’m not sure it would be “fatal,” but it’s going to hurt German automakers.
I suspect there’s going to be a negotiated settlement wherein automakers agree to price cars to a certain level that makes them less competitive but keeps them priced at a level that allows Chinese automakers to sell in Europe.
Stellantis And Renault Says Rumors Are Rumors
Ok, Fleetwood Mac. I did not say yesterday that I believed the rumors of a Renault-Stellantis-BMW tie-up and, if I had to put my money on the line, I’d be tempted to say it ain’t happening this year.
What are the automakers saying about it? Yesterday, Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares said they were “pure speculation” and today we’ve got Renault CEO Luca de Meo saying he wouldn’t comment on “rumors.”
Speculation about a Stellantis and Renault tie-up arose early this year, with an Italian media report that the French government was studying plans for a merger between the two groups. The government is Renault’s largest shareholder along with Nissan, and also has a stake in Stellantis.
Tavares and De Meo are both attending the Paris auto show opening on Oct. 14. Asked what he would discuss with Tavares at the event, De Meo replied: “I will greet him, as always.”
Saying something is a rumor isn’t the same thing as saying the rumor is false. There’s a rumor going around the house that I ate a full sleeve of Fudge-Filled Chips Ahoy before anyone else in the house even had a single cookie. That’s a rumor. Also, it’s true.
Michael Jordan Versus NASCAR
What’s NASCAR like in 2024? There’s been a massive push to rewrite the charter agreement between NASCAR and the many teams that compete and, as always, NASCAR and the NASCAR-owning France family have won. The twist is that a team partially owned by Pitbull sided with NASCAR, and a team partially owned by Michael Jordan did not and decided to sue.
The owners raised a fuss for more than two years and complained about the terms of the deal, upset at how NASCAR used a divide-and-conquer strategy instead of dealing with them as a group. But ultimately, [79-year-old chairman and CEO of NASCAR Jim] France held firm and used NASCAR’s weight to strong-arm the teams. When a final deadline was given, almost all of them got in line and signed.
Jordan’s 23XI Racing, along with Front Row Motorsports, suddenly found themselves isolated. The powerhouse team owners like Rick Hendrick and Roger Penske left the holdouts to fend for themselves, and they seemingly had no leverage to do anything about it.
Jordan’s team stood to be the biggest losers after making the most noise, all while looking silly in the process of accomplishing nothing.
I’m not sure how long it’ll take for people to figure this out, but you probably don’t want to mess with Michael Jordan. This is the first major disruption for the sport since the 1969 Talladega driver strike and it could have some incredible consequences. NASCAR teams always pretend to be poor and uncompetitive, but will never show you their books. NASCAR doesn’t pretend to be anything, it simply does not share how it works with anyone.
An anti-trust lawsuit, as filed by Jordan and Front Row Motorsports, could force open the accounting practices of everyone and fundamentally alter the sport. In fact, I’d go so far as to say just the lawsuit itself has likely already changed the sport.
You can bet against Jordan, and you might win, but the bet that NASCAR made was that Jordan wouldn’t gamble at all which, historically, is a terrible wager.
I Agree With David Zipper On This One
Pro-transit pundit David Zipper isn’t the kind of person you’ll always see on a car site. He’s not full-on r/fuckcars but he definitely does not believe that people should just be able to drive whatever they want. Not everyone here would agree with that.
I think that pro-transit and pro-car people probably have more in common than we’re often led to believe, and I think the antipathy of the r/fuckcars world only makes that worse. As a car enthusiast, I want people to have a lot of choice in what they buy, but as a human being and a dad, I don’t love that we’ve got a tax code that encourages people to buy heavier trucks than they need, or EPA regulations and NHTSA rules that lead to so many cars being pedestrian-unfriendly.
One thing I’m sure we can agree on is that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is actually reducing choice by making it harder to sell small cars here, as he writes in Bloomberg:
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a division of the Department of Transportation, requires new cars sold in the US to adhere to the exhaustive Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, which cover everything from windshields to seat belts. Unlike Europe, NHTSA has established only one category for smaller four-wheeled cars that can’t meet those safety standards: Low-Speed Vehicles (LSV), which are capped at just 25 mph. At the state level, departments of motor vehicles generally require vehicles to be classified as either an automobile or LSV to receive the registration that permits them to be legally operated on public roads. (In 2016 the federal government did create an exception for “autocycles,” three-wheeled machines that are generally treated as motorcycles.)
The rigidity of NHTSA categorizations for four-wheeled vehicles — car, LSV, or nothing — leaves little space for many minicars that are popular abroad. Outside the US, most minicars can exceed the 25-mph LSV maximum, and they typically lack the airbags and other costly safety equipment required to meet federal crash standards. (A rare exception, the Smart ForTwo, left the US market in 2019.) In 2008, NHTSA rejected a petition to create a new category of “medium speed vehicles” traveling at up to 35 mph, which would have accommodated many of the quadricycles popular in Europe.
There’s this idea that what environmentalists want is less choice, but I’d agree with Zipper that the government has made choices for everyone that actually restrict what people can buy and that it’s to the detriment of everyone.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
This is Dinosaur Jr. and Del tha Funkee Homosapien performing “Missing Link” on The Arsenio Hall Show back in the early ’90s. It’s blurry, but that is indeed Mike Watts on base and Mike D. of The Beastie Boys on drums. It’s like Gorillaz before Gorillaz.
The Big Question
Which small car from Europe would you like to see sold here?
Just the other day I was daydreaming about a small penaltybox that was both underpowered and with no crashworthiness. But CHEAP, like the crap you can buy on Amazon. Man, that would be the best.
Personally, I’ve thought NASCAR has been operated like a shitshow since the Playoffs were created. I’d love to see Jordan really cause some major changes to the sport and I’m curious if the same reasons Dale Jr won’t join Cup are the same concerns that Jordan has.
This is a very anti Autopian stance, but keeping POS microcars off the road is one thing most of North America does right.
Where does one drive a low speed vehicle? In traffic? On the sidewalk like a glorified mobility scooter? We have a hard enough time building cycling and transit infrastructure, never mind separate lanes for dangerous rolling road blocks.
If you’re going to be strapped into an enclosed vehicle that moves with traffic, said vehicle really needs to meet crash safety regulations. Or you need to stick to the shoulder like a tractor/ATV and/or wear a helmet as the case may be.
Miss me with the ‘Micro cars are safer than bikes and motos!’ No they aren’t. Even 50km into a modern RAM 2500 front end, there is a decent chance a cyclist or moto rider with a good helmet will fly free of the impact and survive. Try that in Jason’s Changli, and it’s basically 100% EMS will be picking skull fragments out of the RAM’s grill.
Don’t get me wrong, I am all for smaller cars, and I absolutely hate what poorly-conceived vehicle regulations and taxes have done to encourage trucks and large SUVs. (Speaking as a pickup truck owner) But when I say cars, I mean real cars, like the Honda FIT and Mitsubishi Mirage. Don’t want a real car? Ride your (e) bike or take the bus.
When my older relatives become too old to drive, and feeble to walk, I’d much prefer them conveyed safely to their destination by Wheel-trans, with a capable driver on board to help them if they slip and fall. I don’t want to be worrying about Grandma getting stranded in the snow for hours because her micro car got stuck on an icy curb cut, and she’s too frail to push it out of harm’s way.
the bet that NASCAR made was that Jordan wouldn’t gamble at all which, historically, is a terrible wager.
Jordan will suddenly take a two year break from NASCAR at the height of his success to pursue his true passion, Soap Box Derby, and celebrate his father.
Absolutely not related to gambling at all. Nope, couldn’t be further from the truth.
I guess Germany didn’t learn their lesson about economic catering to oppressive regimes. Maybe next time!
They haven’t even learned their lessons specific to China, where all their tech is being replicated and then produced at a fraction of the original price, and the germans are actually willing participants.
As long as a car doesn’t blow up on impact and injure others in a crash, I say have a class of simple, cheap cars—real cars, though, not some 35 mph glorified golf cart—and have us sign waivers or whatever stupid nonsense some legal parasite determines we’d need to allow us to drive them. Of course, it barely matters, as me and the 100 other people who might buy them do not make up a viable market.
Yes – make some sort of US equivalent to the kei class – exempt vehicles from large portions of FMVSS if they comply within a very narrow set of dimensions/displacement/performance caps and meet a very high fuel economy threshold. Maybe say that if the car is less than 1L engine displacement, less than 100hp, weighs less than 2100lbs, and achieves at least 60mpg in real world driving, call it the Light Car class or something, maybe even require an 80 or 85mph speed governor, or set a max MSRP limit, say they can’t have an MSRP higher than 33% of the average transaction price of all other vehicles or something. Want something beyond those limits? Buy something bigger, or buy used, otherwise assume and accept the risk, like people do in other advanced, developed countries where those sorts of vehicles mix in in traffic with bigger ones all the time.
Exactly. I had in mind something like my early ’80s FWD Subarus. Manual steering with an aftermarket steering wheel and a wood shift knob made it legitimately fun to drive—far more communicative than my GR86—and manual steering didn’t need TPMS, but even if the pressure was a little low, the 175s on 13″ wheels and reasonable weight didn’t make it too much of an exercise to park (it was fine beyond parking speeds even if the tires were a little low). It had 73hp with 90 lbs/ft at around 2200 rpm and weighed something like 2100-2200 lbs. As bad as those numbers sound, it was a fighter in traffic and didn’t feel anywhere near as slow as it was. While it was no bank vault, it didn’t feel unsafe, either, and it fit
54 people relatively comfortably with quite respectable storage volume in a small footprint. It wore on you if you were driving all day, but these aren’t effortless cross country cruiser type vehicles we’re talking about here—they could do it, but it would be more of a human endurance test than your average car. There was nothing outstanding about the engineering of those cars even in their day and with a modern engine and aerodynamics, the power and mileage would be much better and modern engineering would easily make it safer. I just hope they’d also use modern rust proofing and solve the old car’s biggest issue. Done right, they could be some of the cheapest and greenest new cars one could buy.VW Golf R Variant (Wagon)
Or, even, just a VW Golf Wagon
Or, maybe, just a plain old VW Golf with a 6MT
VW Golf Cart?
Do they have kei cars in europe? Cause I’d like those here. One order of all the Kei cars, please.
In Alabama they’re called kei kei kei cars.
You can’t park the white ones near the black ones.
You’ll be disappointed by what’s under the hood.
Having or not having certain vehicles is a more nebulous concept in countries that don’t impose a 25 year age limit on private imports, like the US does.
Who is this Carlos Tavares you’re talking about? A picture of him might help.
I always assumed Tavares was his middle name, his surname being “Pictured Above”
Honda e
On the NASCAR beef-
Men like Hendrick and Penske are from a different generation, and that’s why they folded up and went along. Michael Jordan and Denny Hamlin and Bob Jenkins (not that one) aren’t gong to take this lying down, and it’s shameful that more owners aren’t backing them up.
It’s such a bad look to acquiesce to bullies.
Hendrick and Penske are in the Nascar old boys club. They will be taken care of. Newbies and outsiders are the marks at the poker table.
Wait by “small cars” do you mean cars that could be sold in America but aren’t, or the ones that don’t fit the LSV definition and also don’t meet FMVSS?
Either way, let’s be honest with ourselves. The federal government prohibiting these 35mph quadricycles doesn’t ultimately matter because no one would buy them here.
Nothing’s jumping to mind personally for small cars from Europe.
I’m trying to imagine any viable use case for them outside of places like The Villages, and they’re good to go with golf carts. In most American cities it’s highly beneficial to be able to use a car on a limited-access highway, even if it’s just for a couple of miles. New York has its parkway system in the outer boroughs; the freeways in LA aren’t always clogged, and there’s always the 2; one could work inside the Washington Beltway, but in that case transit’s a viable choice. And I’m not sure how things are now, but when I would stay with a friend at the corner of Cesar Chavez (then Army, so it was a while back) and Hampshire just west of the 101 on-ramp, I’d hop on that and drive up to the one-way streets that ran west from the Western Addition (or at least until I hit bridge traffic) to get to Upper Market and the Castro because it was usually quicker.
A vehicle with little cargo or passenger capacity and capabilities that won’t handle urban freeways offers not much more than weather protection as an advantage. It may be functional as a second car, especially something like an Aixam or Ligier (in French} that’s relatively comfortable and looks like an actual car, but the websites for those and other quadricycles emphasize the ability to drive it without a full auto license as a minor, and American parents aren’t likely to stick their children into any of these even if we did have a similar licensing system. And even tiny cars have to be parked somewhere, but if you have to go through the trouble of finding a space in the places dense enough where those cars are viable it might as well be one large enough to accommodate a B-segment or C-segment. Otherwise, forego ownership and sign up for Zipcar, one or both of the Uber & Lyft discount passes, and a monthly transit pass instead.
Yeah, agreed. I’m all for a tiny car in theory, but the use case in the States just isn’t there except for some very niche instances. If you solely operate in the city center of a very large city? Maybe? If you do that, bikes and public transit probably makes more sense so you don’t have to pay to park it. Maybe some quaint small town? Maybe? Small town people folks need to haul lots of mulch and stuff and take their mowers to the repair shop, don’t they? Our towns and cities just aren’t built for these things, which is too bad. I live in the middle of a mid-size city and, sure, I could probably use something like that to zip over to the store or whatever, but it doesn’t remove my need to navigate highways and interstates on a regular basis, to sit in traffic with the semis and Cybertrucks, so I’d have to have a normal big car too. And now we’re talking driveway real-estate, which is limited.
Yeah. The light quadricycles that can be driven by limited license holders under 18 have a speed cap of 45 kph, which is the same as the max assist speed of a Class 3 e-bike here (and also in New Zealand and I think Switzerland.) The faster ones like a Microlino (90 kph max) could manage for a short hop flat out in the right lane, but not much more than that. The Verge review was positive, but it’s still €18 000, or €15 000 without 20% VAT. That could buy a lot more lightly used car or even a very low-end new car in Europe, so the only advantage (aside from any tax breaks) is the ease of parking and maneuverability, which doesn’t outweigh the tradeoffs for almost all use cases here, even in Brooklyn or Cambridge or San Francisco. And these don’t exactly burn up the sales charts in Europe either, likely for the same reason – if you’re going to have a car in a dense city. it might as well be one that provides a lot more function for only slightlly more frustration.
Since I only ever buy used, I’m going with one of my favorite European oddballs that isn’t made anymore: the Cadillac BLS Estate, with the diesel-engine and manual-transmission boxes checked.
For the big question… I’d like to see the Ford Focus Hatchback make a return. And I’d like to see the Honda Fit/Jazz hybrid come to North America.
Just from brands already established in north America: Fiesta, Fit/Jazz, Micra, Yaris, Mazda2, Polo, Lupo, A1…
What’s left in North America: the Mirage?
It looks that way, but not really.
I had absolutely no idea “NASCAR-owning France family” NASCAR wasn’t an American company. :mindblown:
As a large person who is very claustrophobic, I can’t say there are any small European cars I want to drive. However, if we can expand that to include small-ish trucks, I would love to see the single-cab Ranger sold here. I might even buy one.
What small EU car would I like to see sold here? The Dallas!
Wow, “The Missing Link?!” This is an amazing time capsule nugget. So much to remark:
Why the supergroup–had J Mascis alienated the rest of Dino Jr? I love me some busy bass, but I’m not convinced that this performance had a single thing besides star power over the album version, and it’s doubtful that Arsenio’s audience cared about the pedigree of the backing band. The bassline was solid on the record but I didn’t hear Watt play it once, including during the breakdown. Mike D definitely held it together, but this was during the Check Your Head era, so I doubt he was capable of the type of shredding heard from his bandmates here, so it’s hard to give him points for restraint. And who was the rhythm guitar player? No close-ups and I didn’t hear anything but the hook, so no way to pick him out. All in all I think a more faithful (read: subdued) performance would have been more successful in selling records (and movie tickets).
Yes I know these comments are more suitable to the YouTube video page.
Also, was Judgement Night the pinnacle of Denis Leary’s film career? Probably was for Everlast, anyway.
But what a fun inclusion for TMD! Unusual for MH to omit the reason for throwing it up there. I can’t help but wonder how many other people remember this!
Pretty sure that by the time of the release of the Judgement Night soundtrack, both Lou Barlow and Murph had quit Dinosaur Jr. and J Mascis hadn’t had time to assemble a new band yet.
Small car from Europe? One of the French quadricycles, but in the derestricted export form the makers have used for the UK market, where Microcars and AIXAMs were sold in a configuration that allowed them to hit 70-75mph
I only heard about the NASCAR thing yesterday and brought it up with a good buddy of mine who loves NASCAR. He brought up a good point, similar to the article. This is not Jordan’s first rodeo with shaking up a huge sanctioning body. Jordan is experienced, intelligent, and clearly has a brain for business. He brought change to the NBA during his career. NASCAR might not have made the best choice betting against him. I’m not a huge race watcher, but I am still interested in how this is going to play out.
And if Michael Jordan is known for one thing, it is his ability to lose graciously.
Excellent points. I live in the Chicago area and it’s pretty well established around here that Mr. Jordan does not fuck around. He wouldn’t be making this play unless he thought there was a good chance he can win.
As an open-wheel fan I am also curious the impact this has on charter systems, with IndyCar having just voted in one of their own.
I was wondering that too. Can Indy please add an additional charter for MJ (no offense Prema)?
I’d like to see the Jeep Avenger for sale in the US.
The new Renault 5/Alpine A290
I don’t think that the situation is doom and gloom for the non-Chinese automakers. I think they are just dragging their feet on offering what the current market will bear. Yesterday the Ford Expedition articles went out and just seeing the headlines and images I knew that those vehicles were not the kind of vehicles we need. The tariffs buy them time to come up with something to counter China, but that time is limited. They make their new products with 5-10 year planning, well they need to speed it up a bit. In 5-10 years, the Chinese will likely claim a lot of market share.
I fully agree with folks like Toecutter, where we need simplified offerings that excel at moving people, not entertaining and comforting and distracting. Fewer recalls that way too.
I’m hoping Mike D gets a solid double and Watts can score.
(I’d say I couldn’t help it, but I really could have.)
Is Mike Watts the evil twin version of Mike Watt? Does he have a goatee?
Give us Cupra. Fun, small, efficient and practical little cars with a dash of refinement, and a focus on Hybrids and EVs would likely actually sell in the US if marketed.
I know it’s not European, but the lower-hp smaller engine ND Miata. Similar power and weight as the NA, but modern safety/convenience features. Some people say the ND2/3 with the 181hp 2.0L is slow, but honestly it feels plenty quick at all times. A lower output, free revving little engine would be a blast. Force you top really use the excellent gearbox, and would be cheaper.