Apple CarPlay is hugely popular, and is already a deciding factor for many people when it comes to deciding what car they want to buy. For a large number of people, they would much rather have Apple’s user experience on their infotainment screens than whatever a given carmaker has come up with. Does this desire for an Apple-designed UX extend beyond the infotainment screen and to your car’s instrument cluster as well? Well, if you want to keep using CarPlay, I hope that’s the case, because, according to an antitrust lawsuit brought against Apple by the US government today, that’s exactly what Apple intends to do: take over your whole dashboard.
The lawsuit accuses the famous, massive tech company, known for such products as the Lisa, Apple ///, and Newton Messagepad, of creating an illegal monopoly in the smartphone field they helped to define, and of repressing competition in that field.
Apple, of course, will be fighting the lawsuit bluetooth and nail, and will likely argue that their goal wasn’t to stifle competition but to create technology that works seamlessly.
What we’re interested in, of course, is the automotive angle; Apple’s CarPlay, along with their competitor Android Auto, are extremely popular replacements for the often clunky navigation/infotainment systems on modern cars. While, currently, Apple’s control is limited to the center-stack screen, there’s text in the lawsuit that suggests this will be changing:
Apple has told automakers that the next generation of Apple CarPlay will take over all of the screens, sensors, and gauges in a car, forcing users to experience driving as an iPhone-centric experience if they want to use any of the features provided by CarPlay.
That’s a hell of a statement! We’ve known for some time that Apple was looking to move in this direction, but this seems to be the first time it’s suggested that it’s a sort of all-or-none proposition: if you want to use Carplay, you have to let Apple take over the whole dash, instrument cluster and all.
Do I want my speed or fuel level told to me via an Apple interface? I mean, I think they could actually do a good job at it, potentially, but that doesn’t mean I want to have no choice in the matter. At least one carmaker, GM, has talked about actually prohibiting Apple CarPlay from their in-car interfaces, center stack included, but that idea didn’t go over well because people do prefer CarPlay to GM’s home-grown UX, generally.
We have reached out to both Apple and automakers for comment and will update with anything we hear back.
This feels like a strange and needless overreach for Apple. Giving users an option to use an Apple-designed UX for speed, tachometer, coolant temperature, or whatever is one thing, but making it a requirement to use CarPlay? People are used to their car’s instruments, and changing them isn’t always the best idea. Does this apply to HVAC systems, too? Will they finally show the specific OBD-II code number and descriptive text when the check engine light comes on? At least that would be worthwhile.
What if there’s a bug in an update that misreports your fuel level? That’s the sort of thing that can strand people. Your dash instruments are critical displays of information, and why introduce more vulnerabilities there, especially for crucial things like oil level or coolant temperatures? Do we really need those to be all iPhone-style? Apple’s no less likely to have bugs in their software than anyone. In an infotainment screen, that’s no big deal. When it’s telling you tire pressures or oil temperature, that’s a different story.
The wording from the Justice Department’s lawsuit seems to indicate that this is an all-or-nothing proposition, so it’ll be interesting to hear from Apple if that’s actually the case and we’ll update as soon as we hear more.
GM Getting Rid Of Apple CarPlay And Android Auto Is Such A Ridiculous Risk, I Don’t Think They’ll Actually Do It
In One Of The Most Ridiculous Chip Shortage Feature Removals To Date, BMW Ditches Apple CarPlay and Android Auto
Nobody Believes GM Can Do Better Than Apple CarPlay
This doesn’t make GMs announcements about moving away from CarPlay seem so crazy anymore. The absurdity here is the car still has to have all the normal interfaces and software. It can’t simply use CarPlay instead as a default. What if you lose your phone? What if it’s dead? Or rebooting?
Having never used Android Auto or Apple Car Play, I’m not sure I’m missing anything by having them. I know back up cameras are mandatory in new cars, I’d be happy to have one of those and that be the only thing that screen does.
My car has a dot matrix LED display with buttons under it for 6 preselected radio stations or to switch between 6 CDs mounted conveniently in the trunk. If I want to listen to Nav instructions while driving over the audio system, then I plug in the tape cassette adapter and plug it into my phone. I’ll listen to music on my phone and when there is a Nav instructions it politely interrupts and gives me the instruction.
Backup cameras are worthless IMO on any vehicle that has halfway decent rearward visibility. Which describes about 2 cars in 2024, so backup cameras have become kind of necessary.
I actually disagree with this, because rear visibility is not an issue with my car that doesn’t have a rear camera (2012 C250)… giant trucks/suvs are.
Nothing like having to slowly blindly back out of a parking space because you literally can’t see around or over the giant SUV and Truck that parked on each side of you in your small sedan.
I’ve used your setup, a phone mount, and now Carplay. They all work. Carplay is essentially a safer, slicker alternative to using a phone mount. I like having a screen for visual confirmation of anything I do over Siri, and sometimes the visual nav cues are more helpful than the audio ones. Carplay’s larger interface and simplified menus make this info even more glanceable, and make it a heck of a lot less of a distraction if I want to change Spotify playlists.
Carplay commandeering all screens, though, I could take or leave.
Fuck Apple….I’m all Android. IPhones and all that are a ripoff and overrated. Now THIS is completely absurd and I’m glad they are being sued federally. They’re getting as bad as Tesla. It’s a fucking CAR…no one can “take over” fucking gauges…nothing can replace real gouges! Do you know how stupid and preposterous that sounds?! I just had an idea today and somebody should do it- make a BASIC fucking car like they used to be, manual everything and the KEY is NO SCREENS!!! Also, dirt cheap like $10-15K or whatever and I bet a ton of people would buy them. I’m so sick of a million fucking screens, nannies AND EV’s
He isn’t necessarily wrong, just a little riled up
Ha ha no, this BS just pisses me off to no end
This is like the company supplying seat-back entertainment systems to the airlines wanting their software to drive the airplanes’ primary flight displays. Does Apple’s software have the requirements to testing pedigree to have that kind of responsibility?
So are we talking about taking over for Boeing or Airbus software?
Would probably be an improvement over Boeing software
I use an iPhone. I also have an old iPad I read on or watch YouTube over Wi-Fi. I turned off automatic updates a couple years back when I read that the latest one at the time slowed that model way down. I don’t trust Apple to care about supporting a 15yo car—especially one with hardware they didn’t supply/build. Not calling them malicious, just pointing out that they aren’t going to spend the time to verify that their newest update works with every single old model: it’s not cost-effective
I think Apple CarPlay, in its current iteration is great. Using Google maps for navigation shits all over the garbage that the auto makers come up with. The UI is slick, responsive and familiar. I have it in all three of my cars – the newest came with it from the factory, the two older ones have it by way of aftermarket head units.
However – here’s the qualifying however – it is by no means 100% reliable. If my wife has been driving the car last, it keeps trying to connect to her phone, even if it isn’t there, and sometimes requires a reboot to recognise my phone. When I pass under or over an electrified railway, it often disconnects. It’s actually more reliable on the aftermarket head units than it is in the car that has it natively.
This is something that is an annoyance and you can deal with for a convenience feature. For your essential dash instruments? Fuck no! I don’t think they will be allowed to do it anyway. My understanding is that your dash has to be a real time operating system. CarPlay would just have too much latency to be feasible.
I used to be big on apple and wouldn’t buy anything else. I’m glad I outgrew that mindset decades ago. Apple deserves every stumbling block that comes their way.
When even inept GM is calling you out on your stuff, you know it has to be bad.
I stopped with Apple when they brought out the Mac. Apple ][e! Because Apple got so ingrained into aftermarket radios, I was forced into an iPod for about a decade, but in this past year I’ve managed to part ways with it due to (a) unlimited data and (b) much better Android Auto apps being available. All of those podcasts I had to download are now available on my phone, which connects directly to my radio(s) either through bluetooth (good for audio) or a wired connection (better for the whole experience.) It’s also pretty much confirmed I won’t by buying any more Garmin GPS units, since I can now display Waze while making phone calls (my concern before was a call would come it at a critical turn in a strange place, causing me to get way off track in say DC,) and when I have both going at the same time Waze consistently gives better routes.
Lastly, anyone who things Apple develops great software should try iTunes for Windows, although this lawsuit apparently reveals they were making it bad on purpose so you’d switch to an Apple, but for me it’s the opposite. I was getting tired of podcasts not playing in the correct order, the UI changing every now and then with no warning, etc.
IMHO this is worth watching to get a bigger feel of things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ6JycDyYj4
I figure it is about seven years late coming, but you know politics and all that.
Maybe GM wasn’t insane to ditch Carplay. Time will tell…
You said it, Apple must have started with this malarkey and GM gave them the finger
Check out https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/21/24107976/apple-carplay-doj-lawsuit-anticompetitive-digital-key
One portion:
“This is especially true for the next-generation version, which prosecutors described insidiously as taking “over all of the screens, sensors, and gauges in a car, forcing users to experience driving as an iPhone-centric experience if they want to use any of the features provided by CarPlay.”
That’s misleading, said Sam Abuelsamid, principal analyst at Guidehouse Insights and an expert on vehicle software. “Even with the next-gen system, OEMs [original equipment manufacturers] don’t actually have to let Apple take over all the screens,” he said in an email. “They can limit the interface to whichever screens they want.”
The DOJ has a pretty bad track record in anti-trust cases lately, because they don’t understand…much of anything.
One analyst isn’t much to go on, I’m leaning towards the prosecutors’ interpretation until more details come out
You should read the list of accusations (or search for any analysts you might trust to cover it).
There’s some good things I’d like to see come out of this such as forcing Apple to disconnect their App Store requirements from the iPhone. When smart phones were new I sort of understand the need to maintain security but now Apple is simply protecting the profits they make and I really don’t think they have to be a middleman in every single transaction I make on my iPhone anymore.
However, the DOJ has gone way overboard and they really show a complete lack of understanding technology in their suit. The level of incompetence in their statements is egregious. If they aren’t just trying to get people outraged or something, Apples lawyers will shred them in court.
One example is blaming Apple for low quality pics and vids when texting with Android users. This is due to the underlying network technology used for over the air SMS texting and is not an Apple limitation. Apple has already announced a move to a new standard later this year that will allow wider bandwidth to solve that issue. This is only one of many areas where the DOJ is making huge mistakes here and I think they are just going crazy to get the overblown news coverage here. It pisses me off because this will absolutely water down the real problems with Apples policies in protecting their App Store monopoly.
Long story short: never trust the DOJ to not overreach. They are playing a political game here.
No, the SMS issue with degraded quality was definitely an on purpose enshittification of the system to penalize non-apple users.
Absolutely not. It is a complete limitation of the system itself. When Android users message each other, it is not using the wireless network (or if using another app that includes encryption and other features such as WhatsApp or WeChat or whatever) just as when Apple Messages sends between 2 iPhones. If using the SMS system over the air there is a limitation that Apple does not control.
Apple could have devised a system that allows Android users to connect and use the Messages app but already had built a backup default to use SMS if a secure data link wasn’t available. They were not under any obligation to make the connections and chose not to for a variety of reasons. They have already announced the adoption of RCS to replace SMS later this year now that the standard has been finalized. That is going to fix the issue anyway.
At the very least, the DOJ cannot really claim (as they do) that Apple prevents messaging with their monopoly given the enormous number of apps that are available to use other than Messages, none of which are limited like they claim.
Hey Torch, check this out. Some guy named Jason Torchinsky wrote about this feature last year:
https://www.theautopian.com/apples-new-full-dash-carplay-brings-up-a-really-difficult-interface-design-question/
I’ve only driven rentals with CarPlay, and while I appreciated it for entertainment and navigation, consider me big NO THANK YOU on critical vehicle information.
Are they going to share my tire pressure with insurance companies and bill me higher if its 1 psi off?
are you driving a BMW? Only those are affected by 1PSI off
I’m skeptical of this “forcing users” notion, I’m guessing you’ll be able to decide which screens are Apple’d up and which ones aren’t. That would be a more compelling product anyway.
This is kind of a wild idea just because Apple isn’t used to playing in someone else’s yard. That’s their entire deal, their competitive advantage – Apple stuff “just works” because there isn’t any incompatibility, they control the hardware, they control the software, there are very few variables. Even when they interact with other hardware – like Carplay now – it’s still not using a ton of novel hardware, and there’s actually not a ton of interaction – the car really only tells the phone what button was pressed, and the phone just gives it stuff to display.
Trying to take over everything would be a mess because it’s all stuff they wouldn’t control. Everyone uses different hardware, everyone uses a different mix of proprietary tech and off-the-shelf components. Cars will report the data from their sensors in different ways. Every variation is a chance for a bug. Apple would have to prepare for an infinite number of variations, well beyond just the small infotainment corner they’re living in now.
And Apple doesn’t do that. They’ve set up their entire company so they don’t have to do that. It feels like they’re in over their heads on that one.
Or Apple says that to use Carplay you have to have speed sensor X, lidar sensor Y, fuel sending unit Z, etc, installed in the car. And then Apple chooses who gets to be companies XYZ based on who pays them the biggest licensing fee.
At that point the cost of allowing Carplay so substantially outweighs any potential lost sales that it won’t be a feature anymore. Disrupting the supply chain that much would likely cost billions and be a logistical nightmare.
Exactly. Tech and automotive are still different worlds– despite all the tech in our vehicles. Total hubris for a company in either space to think they could magically operate well in the other.
Exhibit A: Every OEM’s dogshit in-house software UX
Exhibit B: Apple’s failure to produce a single EV in 10 years
Maybe Apple should just make their OWN car!
Oh…wait…
The golden age of Apple products “just working” is long gone. MacOS née OSX has been getting iffy for the last several iterations, and iOS is flaky as well. I say this as a guy who develops software on a Mac and likes the OS.
If Apple took over the car I’d stop using CarPlay or buy a GM.
^^THIS^^ is an accurate analysis
I think if a $20 obd2 reader can pull that data it wouldn’t be all that hard for Apple to figure it out. Anything that would be displayed on the dash is pretty standardized stuff. The dashboard would never display proprietary system info without the oems super expensive readers anyway.
If it is anything like their phones or laptops, one device fails and you will have to buy a new car to fix it……… Not to mention Apple should be paying you to use their products with all your info they sell, not like the car manufactures don’t do the same thing.
The lede image shows a Macintosh Classic II but will this new experience be backwards compatible with my Macintosh 512K? I’d like to know before I go to all the trouble of figuring out how to install it into one of my cars. I suppose I can start looking around for a 512Ke if I must.
The lede is completely misleading. You need a IIgs because of the video and audio requirements, which means it won’t play well with your IIe or IIc.
Since when does Apple care about backward compatibility?
I upgraded the memory in my Dad’s Mac 128k so he could get CarPlay in his Studebaker.
Apple sucks. It’s entirely unintuitive. I’ll be using Android.
At least Google folks are used to dealing with a variety of different hardware. Probably why there is no mention of a similar lawsuit against Android Auto. They know what a Pandora’s Box they would be opening.
Ditto
Shall we play a game?
Think about it. If Apple’s user interface controls your gauges and entire dashboard, that’s a lot of data. Tech companies want all the data about you they can get. They’ll know how much you’re speeding, how fast you accelerate, where you’re going, what your driving style is, how much mileage is on your car, how much range you have vs how much range they want you to think you have…
Selling data to insurance companies is only one of the things they could do with all that juicy data.
Been using Apple devices for a long time, finally got fed up with them and switched brands for my new phone, happy with my decision. Apple can go suck a lemon.
> Selling data to insurance companies is only one of the things they could do with all that juicy data.
That’s literally the Android business model. What phone did you buy that isn’t Apple and isn’t Android?
Maybe he got a windows phone.
Windows Phone died too young. It was a genuinely great platform that just couldn’t compete in a world where folks are programmed to think they only have an either/or choice.
Also: Cortana was a delight and it still pains me that Microsoft discontinued the service that was so good, especially now that we have AI stuff.
As a former Zune HD user, I 100% agree
I’ve had plenty of technically excellent phones over the years, Android and iOS alike, but I can’t get away from the idea that my absolute favorite phone (controlling for what was technically possible for the era) was my Focus S – a Windows Phone 7/8 variant using the OG Samsung Galaxy’s hardware.
I still have my small collection of Lumias. They all work, each is a pleasure to hold (even the top-heavy 1020 PureView and chunky 1520), and they spark joy. I can’t say that about all of the other smartphones I’ve had before, during, or since. Phone makers seemed to care a bit more back then about appearance and feel. Now they all seem to resemble each other (admittedly that’s likely due to packaging) and have big off-center camera bumps yet don’t take photos much different than my PureView did/does.
Currently have a OnePlus 11 in a pleasant shade of green, but it has a glass back (why?!) which cracked – despite being in a protective case – not long after purchase. I miss colorful polycarbonate.
I am not falling into the trap of divulging what kind of phone I own, as the techies always start a flame war in the replies over whether it’s good or trash, no matter what it is. It’s a cell phone that isn’t Apple and that’s all I’m gonna say.
$100 on DOJ misunderstanding it.
I can’t blame them too much when the most recent demo of the new CarPlay shows the interface taking over not only the center screen but the whole dash as well.
Porsche right?
Sure but that was Porsche’s decision to cede control of those screens.
specifically I think it was just Apples fake stand-in car with a theoretical whole dash screen to demo how it could work.
but really, I do think that is just a misunderstanding on the DOJ on how it would actually work with manufacturers.
yea I have an iPhone, but I don’t want CarPlay, I never use Siri. I just want to play a list of songs from my connected iPod classic as I still currently do and nothing else. I still use my old iPod classic every day for music, I recently sliced many fingers putting in a new battery.
if the result of this is automakers go back to mechanical dials and buttons, so that the only a center screen is left and goes back closer to just showing some info, then I think it will be a net win for everyone.
I have other Apple computers/watch/iPad too, and even I don’t want Apple to actually do this.
You and the one other person using an iPod will be unaffected by this lawsuit!
one day, when it’s eventually no longer possible to update, I will be sad.
Hard pass, and I’m an iPhone/M1 Mac Mini/Apple TV/Watch guy.
Same. Apple is for entertainment or navi. The core functions of my automobile are Honda’s job.
Ah, finally Apple’s true strategy is laid bare. They never intended to build an Apple Car, that was just a feint. What they really want is to make every car an Apple Car. So much easier to achieve when you don’t have to deal with all of the messy hardware issues yourself.
There was a movie warning of this, though with people instead of cars. Pod people . . . iPod? Coincidence, I think not.
I think the movie is “Terminator”
Apple, now tapped out on meaningful innovation, instead resorts to monopolistic tactics.
Checks out.
That’s been their ballywick for the last couple decades or so.