The Nissan Altima and its drivers have a bit of a reputation. Getting behind the wheel of one seems to imbue a driver with a primal, almost corrupting power. As if the Altima becomes a vessel for its driver’s contempt — for this cruel existence, and for their (and their car’s) very connection to this mortal coil.
Or at least, so goes the stereotype. But how true is it really? We can all rattle off unflattering and mostly untrue cliches about almost any car. Corvettes and New Balance shoes, Subaru drivers’ affinity for vaping and granola, lifted truck owners’ male inadequacies, and so on. Confirmation bias is a slippery slope, and we can wind up believing things that we want to be true by only looking for evidence that they are. But everyone, including Nissan Altima drivers, deserves a fair shake.
So I looked into it, and it looks like Nissan Altima drivers might indeed be more reckless than the average driver. Let’s look at some stats.
“Big Altima Energy”
“Big Altima Energy” is the most common name for a set of behaviors that, while not exclusive to Altima drivers, are seemingly better embodied by them than drivers of any other car. As outlined by the Facebook group Big Altima Energy and Urban Dictionary, Altima drivers are associated with driving cars in visible disrepair with complete disregard for safety.
They may drive at perilous speeds with significant body damage and noticeable drivability issues, like an emergency spare bolted in place, busted lights, collapsing suspension, and so on. According to the stereotype, you’ll see them weaving through traffic at high speed, blowing red lights, or in extreme cases, ramping themselves off stationary flatbed trucks.
A couple of weeks ago, I had to dodge a speeding Altima while walking in my own neighborhood when they drove right at me rather than inconvenience themselves by bouncing through a couple of small potholes. Altima drivers, per the stereotype, aren’t mere adrenaline junkies like your average street racer in a Dodge Charger; some truly seem to hold contempt for anyone in their way.
Obviously, Altima drivers aren’t the only ones playing chicken with pedestrians or speeding in road-unworthy vehicles. But they’ve seemingly combined these bad behaviors so prominently and for so long that the phenomenon garnered a name for itself, possibly starting around the first half of 2022. That’s when the Urban Dictionary entry for “Altima energy” and the first Google searches for “big Altima energy” were made according to Google Trends. These were examples of people agreeing on vernacular for a trend they themselves had observed for years, but had not yet put a name to.
“Are all Nissan Altima drivers d[$%!]bags?” asked one CivicX.com forum user in 2019. Indeed, “Nissan Altima Drivers are the worst” agreed a VW Vortex poster almost four years prior in 2015. Even elements of the motorcycle community were wary of Altimas at least as far back as 2018 according to comments on this Reddit post.
And then there’s that “Regular Car Reviews” Reddit thread above from a few years ago in which folks are spending lots of time time defining “Big Altima Energy.” Clearly, Altima drivers were an established group of motoring miscreants by that point. At least, according to the absurd stereotype.
But as my dad likes to say, stereotypes are a shortcut for thinking. Just because we think Altima drivers suck at driving doesn’t mean they do. Given how many of Urban Dictionary’s Altima-related entries are outright prejudiced, it seemed the whole “big Altima energy” schtick runs the risk of being used as a cover for bigotry. Parroting the meme any further wouldn’t feel right unless I could prove to myself that Altima drivers really are agents of chaos.
The Data Behind The Stereotype
So I hunted for data on Altima drivers’ behavior for months, reaching out to various insurers and industry groups. None returned my inquiries. None until LendingTree, which offered me takeaways from tens of millions of submissions to QuoteWizard, its in-house insurance quote aggregator. This data is all self-reported by drivers, and is one of the largest and most complete sources of info on driver behavior out there.
The company also parsed data from NHTSA’s Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS), which records fatal crashes across the United States. Specifically, they looked for crashes involving aggressive or distracted driving, which I’ll abbreviate “ADF” for aggression/distraction fatalities. It also contextualized info from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety’s public insurance loss database, which painted an unflattering portrait of Altima drivers.
According to NHTSA FARS data processed by LendingTree, Altima drivers ranked sixth for ADF crashes in 2022, with 63. They also stand out in IIHS rankings for midsize sedan insurance losses, with the highest rate of claims filed for personal injury. Altimas also rank second for claim rates on bodily injury, medical payments, and property damage, which also takes claim values into account. (These are all second to the Chevy Malibu, a comparison we’ll explore more later.) It also came in third for losses by collision, and fourth for losses on comprehensive policies. Interestingly, the all-wheel-drive Altima was ranked separately with significantly lower rates of insurance losses. I’ll touch on a potential cause of that later.
But hold your horses, because it’s too easy to draw a misleading conclusion from these stats at face value. If the Altima has poorer safety ratings than other midsize sedans, a higher rate of fatal crashes doesn’t say as much about its drivers. You may also wonder why the same-size Honda Accord—which ranked higher for ADF crash volume—doesn’t have the same stigma attached. Or for that matter, why the seemingly injury-prone Malibu ranks lower than the Altima for ADF crashes in 10th. There seems to be an answer to these questions, and it starts by touching on the list’s big hitters.
That’s literal, because three of the top five vehicles on the ADF list are full-size pickups. Their mass simply means crashes involving them can be more serious, while their popularity means they just get in more crashes. Popularity also explains the Accord-Altima-Malibu hierarchy, because it mirrors their last decade of sales.
Between calendar years 2014 and 2023, Honda sold 2,725,113 Accords according to Good Car Bad Car, with Nissan notching 2,088,302 Altimas and Chevy claiming 1,449,792 Malibus over that period. Compare that to their rate of ADF crashes, and you’ll find the Altima has an 11.1-percent higher rate of these incidents than the Accord. (Meanwhile, the Malibu comes in 3.5 percent below the Honda.) This isn’t due to any difference in how safe these sedans are, either: All three have five-star NHTSA crash test ratings at both ends of the 2014-2023 window.
“When it comes to IIHS safety ratings, the 2020 Altima performed quite well with good ratings in six different crashworthiness evaluations and a top rating of superior in our original 12- and 25-mph crash prevention tests,” commented Joe Young, director of media relations for the IIHS/HLDI. “In fact, combined with several other ratings, the 2020 Altima earned a Top Safety Pick that year.”
Young also noted that the IIHS’s ADF numbers were based solely on 2019 and 2020 models, meaning these statistics aren’t skewed by crashes involving older, less-safe vehicles. That means, despite competitive safety marks from both the federal government and independent testers, the Altima is still a statistical outlier. That seems to leave only one variable to blame: the driver.
The Drivers Behind The Data
“The Nissan Altima is a safe car that is often driven in an unsafe manner,” summarized LendingTree’s Rob Bhatt, a car insurance expert and a licensed agent. “Its high ranking for fatal accidents from speeding or aggressive driving is particularly troubling.”
From insurers’ perspective, Bhatt says the Altima is a “puzzling” vehicle. He explained that insurers determine premiums using data on how often a car is crashed and how expensive those crashes are. There are plenty of predictive risk factors too, like low safety ratings, complex or electrified drivetrains, and being a performance car. By all measures, the safe, simple, slow Nissan Altima should be as expensive to insure as any other run-of-the-mill commuter.
“The Altima is a gas-powered car with a high safety rating,” Bhatt said. “It should be involved in fewer accidents than other cars and have fewer repairs. It’s not an EV, hybrid or precision tuned luxury car, so it’s probably cheaper to repair than cars with more sophisticated technology or intricate features. In other words, it should have low claims frequency and low claims severity.
But against all logic, the Altima more than doubled the average rate of personal injury and medical payment claims for midsize sedans between 2020 and 2022. Its rate of crash claims was 45 percent above the average, too. To put things into perspective, Bhatt compared the Altima’s premiums to those of a vehicle you expect to be pricey to insure—a luxury EV.
“I recently reviewed insurance rates for 36 new model year cars to compare EV insurance rates to rates for gas cars,” Bhatt said. “The Nissan Altima had the 25th-highest insurance rate. Full coverage for a Nissan Altima costs an average of $228 a month, before discounts. That’s slightly higher than the $225-a-month rate for the electric Cadillac Lyriq. One of the more interesting aspects about this is that a new Lyriq costs more than twice as much as an Altima.”
“Unfortunately, the actions of its drivers are offsetting the positive qualities that should be providing low crash rates and low insurance rates,” Bhatt concluded.
So there you have it, Altima drivers really do seem to cause more trouble on the road than the average driver. But why? That’s a far harder question to answer.
“Driver death rates reflect the real-world experience of a vehicle, which can be affected by where, when, how, and by whom they’re driven,” the IIHS’s Young told me. “If newer/younger drivers are drawn to a given model, that could affect its real-world experience because these drivers are more likely to crash. Similarly, men (especially young men) are more likely to engage in certain reckless behaviors like red light running, so a model that appeals to this demographic may be driven more dangerously in some cases.”
Identifying those demographics is tougher than it sounds, because the automotive industry keeps those cards close to its chest. When I contacted JD Power for current Altima-buyer data from its APEAL studies, whose publication Yahoo! Autos covered in 2016, it declined to share. Much of the info that is out there is of a similar, outdated vintage, and only addresses the new-car market. The body of Altima owners as a whole is better-understood by insurers, who didn’t return my emails.
But one demographic repeatedly pops up, both in studies from a decade ago and in contemporary reporting. The JD Power study covered above noted Altima customers were more price-sensitive than the average midsize car buyer, and also favored its thrifty fuel economy. A 2016 LendingTree study published in Media Post observed the Altima’s popularity with Millennials, a skint demographic compared to the average new-car buyer. More recently, marketing analysts at YouGov reported this year that Nissan customers in general are more likely to be from poorer households. According to the Federal Reserve, lower income correlates with the one demographic that LendingTree’s Bhatt suggested was worth noting — buyers with low credit scores.
“Past insurance industry research has shown that drivers with bad credit are generally more likely to get into an accident than those with good credit,” Bhatt said. “In most states, insurance companies can charge you more if you have bad credit.”
Bhatt emphasized how tenuous the correlation between crashes and credit rating are, and the flaws with the credit score system as a whole. That said, it’s an interesting coincidence that Nissan buyers previously ranked second-lowest in a 2020 LendingTree study of credit scores by car make. Only Kia ranked lower, and both makes have a reputation (deserved or not) for playing fast-sand-loose with who they finance. For what it’s worth, both were named by CarsDirect in November 2023 as good options for car buyers with bad credit.
[Ed Note: To be clear, we’re not saying that folks with less money are worse drivers. Insurance companies consider folks with lower credit scores to be higher risk (some experts seem to say a low credit score implies a recklessness that translates to driving, but that seems simple to me), though that can be due to a number of factors, like perhaps folks with lower credit scores being younger. This is a complex issue; just know that we’re not saying that your driving ability has to do with how much jingle you have in your pocket! -DT]
Additionally, it’s interesting that all-wheel-drive Altimas should have markedly lower crash rates than front-wheel-drive models. AWD is a premium option, so hypothetically, AWD Altimas are less accessible to buyers with the poorest credit scores (who correlate with higher crash rates). The reduced acceleration that comes with AWD may also contribute—though even the AWD Altima still comes in above average for insurance losses according to the IIHS.
The Fastest Car In The World Is A Rental Nissan Altima
To scrape together one last small plate of food for thought, let’s also consider Nissan’s dependence on fleet sales to hit its targets in recent years. As of early 2018, Nissan was the top seller to rental agencies according to Grewal & Levy Marketing—a crutch that Automotive News reports Nissan had returned to as of March 2024. Rental-industry software supplier Rentall indicates that the biggest rental agencies replace their fleet vehicles after no more than a year of service, meaning they regularly offload lots of hard-lived late-model vehicles—disproportionately Nissans—onto the used market. These are circumstantial connections, but it seems safe to guess that there’s an abundance of ex-rental Altimas out there. They’re new enough to look reasonably classy, yet cheap enough that a shopper with a rocky financial history can secure a loan for one.
Knowing all of the above, I’ll let you paint the picture of the archetypal Altima driver in your head. They drive perfectly safe cars, yet they get into serious crashes far more than they should. Why? We can’t say definitively, because it’s a chain of correlation and circumstantial evidence. But there do seem to be compounding factors that make Altimas accessible to less financially stable buyers, who, at least statistically, are more likely to be in crashes. But again, it’s not just a simple correlation.
In light of all this, it’s much harder to point and laugh at Altimas on the road, even if we’re justified in giving them a wide berth. But this knowledge won’t serve us for very long. While the Altima seems to be going away in a few years, its drivers aren’t going anywhere. They’ll take the wheels of other cars and disappear into the crowd, remaining anonymous as long as they don’t make statistics of themselves. If they do, we’re sure to spot their descendants cutting through traffic in whatever takes the Altima’s place. And in time, maybe they’ll leave numerical tire tracks that pick up where the Altima’s leave off.
Top Image: By Author
One factor to consider is the prevalence of driver’s ed in more affluent high schools (whether private or well-funded public) compared to less affluent ones (usually underfunded public.) Seems like the more widespread driver’s ed is the better overall the general driving population tends to be on the roads.
Yeah, poverty is a real bear & can result in vicious cycles, as noted elsewhere in the comments, especially if support and funding are chronically lacking.
Would be mighty nice if driver’s ed, especially if of good quality, were to be universally implemented in this country though that’s not likely to happen anytime soon, especially in this current climate, even though it’d be far better a use of funding than, say, “DOGE” or the military-industrial complex or the privatized carceral industry.
The school district I went to was so rural and broke that we had no driver’s ed at all. You had to pay a local driving school about $500 or just wait until you’re 18 which the poor kids did.
Same for the fancy rich school district I went to. In that case I assume there would be no demand, because driver’s ed isn’t going to help you get admitted to Stanford.
Went to a fancy rich school district in northern NJ in the early 1980s. We had classroom instruction for Driver Ed but no behind-the-wheel. I always assumed it was because the school district didn’t want the liability.
Whenever I think of Altimas like this, I think of one of my college classmates. He’s a cool dude–car guy, responsible, has a project Nissan 300ZX, knows heaps about mechanics–and daily-drives a 2010-2011 Nissan Altima. Hearing him talk about it makes it sound like a great deal, actually! His is a 6-speed manual, so it avoids all the CVT problems, but actually benefits from the ready part availability from all the scrapped auto ones with transmission problems, and the low prices its reputation brought. Apparently his family has a couple more stick-shift ones back on the farm as well, and I can kind of understand why!
Good read. I spend quite a bit of time between the DC Metro through North Carolina and 10 year old Altimas and tired base model Chargers are the two vehicles I see hooning around with disregard to the safety of others. More often than not, said Charger or Altima is on at least one donut spare with a fraction of tread left and body panels in visible disrepair. I suppose that at may correlate with the lower income, lower credit score metric mentioned in the article.
Articles like this are why I love this site!
I’m originally from the Bay Area but now live in a smaller city out in the California Central Valley. In the early 2000s BMW drivers were the scourge of the roads. They drove like absolute jackasses. But when the Model S became a thing those drivers seem to have mostly dropped their Bavarian terror wagons and gone all in on battery powered asshattery.
Out here in the more rural areas it’s the V6 chargers that are main culprit. They’re inevitably damaged in some way, often to the point of being held together with duct tape. And are usually being driven with no regard to anyone’s safety. V6 mustangs also fit in here but there’s way less of them. I’ve also seen more than one of the V8 models of both Chargers and Mustangs stuck on a curb or in the landscaping on the side of the road because some intelligent individual thought that doing a burnout on that left turn was a smart thing to do.
While I do see damaged, older Altimas, they tend to be driven normally by folks who look like they just need a reliable car to get to their job.
The bid unspoken take from the chart above: Ram truck drivers are safer than Toyota Camry drivers!
Here in Florida you can’t drive on any highway without getting passed by a speeding Altima with no bumper. It’s not a stereotype if it’s true. We even hosted the Altima 600 recently.
Say what you will, but the actual reason for this is subprime financing. An auction Altima is a very profitable car for a subprime dealer. Cheap to buy at auction and the subprime lenders advance well on them. So a lot of them end up in the hands of subprime buyers. Usually one ends up a subprime buyers because they make poor life decisions. That extends to their driving. That’s really all there is to it.
They just replaced all the old Grand Marquis.
Not in Texas ???? I actually have seen a few excellent condition Mercury Marauders.
We have Cleetus McFarland thinning the heard over here. Nice to hear the Marauders are living their best life in Texas.
It depends on region there are but almost anywhere I’ve been Altimas are bad behavior. Also what ever the most popular car in California is at the the time will be terirble drivers. The marai data is shocking but it only sold in California and it’s that bad I guess that backs that up, very strange. There are some strange ones like dodge journeys in Tennessee and the mid south. They are everywhere and they are just like big Altimas. My theory is once the Altima driver has a few kids they get the dodge journey. Model 3s were terrible for a long time just as they had taken over from Prius. Model y kinda got there. What’s strange is pickups in some markets great drivers in some terirble. Then you have the sub set. Like rams like to go fast but typically still good. You don’t really hear people complain about f-150s or Silverados. But in some western states that all goes out the window. And once you see its been lowered or jacked up or has wheels and tires that don’t fit you know there will be an incident. Mazdas are interesting especially the mazda3 and cx3 in most markets they are fine to good but in the west and some of the west coast just like Altimas. People always complain about the tractor trailers but if you have ever driven one or even driven a truck with a trailer or box in a group of them it’s smooth. It’s when the little cars come and do bad driving like cutting trucks off and tailgating that things go badly. The same thing can happen if you have ever been lane split in traffic by a group of motorcycles it kills the momentum for a little bit. Different regions drive different too. What’s bad if you get an influx of people from a certain region come into a different driving style region things don’t flow as they have. Florida used to have terrible accidents in the colder months because you had young people driving Florida style and old people driving old people snow bird style.
Amiriza768 from the Big Altima Energy Facebook group sounds like quite a douchebag themselves.
Nissan and older model Infinitis seem to be the shittiest drivers in my neck of the woods.
Great read. Even better visual at the top of the story.
I always wondered what the ’80s IROC Camaro and ’90s Civic demographic ended up purchasing when the 2000s and 2010s rolled around.
Young men with not a lot of money, but a surplus of testosterone and its detrimental effect on good judgment. The men with money tended to end up in a truck or nouveau riche German car (entry level BMW/Audi) of some sort, usually.
By far, the most expensive demographic to insure. Enter the second-hand Nissan Altima. Rental-car fleet overproduction combined with their sub-par reliability hurting resale value to the point of an attractive proposition for the unwary.
Big Altima Energy is the new ‘IROC Camaro wrapped around a phone pole’ or ‘Fast and Furious Civic racing through traffic’. It’s not a new phenomenon, just better documented because of the ubiquity of recording devices.
Follow that demographic and you’ll find your answer, I suspect.
IROC: The Next Generation
This was a well researched article and gets us 80% of the answers. The rest of the story will be a lot more complicated.
Factors include poverty’s effect on childhood development, including impulse control. Drug use in the working poor. Underfunded schools in inner cities and rural areas. The list of American inequities goes on and on.
Nissan pursued a dealership strategy that pushed out cars to low credit buyers. They jack them on the financing and purchase prices. “We can put you in a car”.
The brand has screwed itself by trashing its image with affluent customers. I wish them luck but I wouldn’t buy their stock.
Childhood exposure to residual lead near high traffic freeways, in old decaying structures with ancient city pipes? Lead exposure directly correlates to risk taking, aggression, violence.
This is true, but only applies to Boomers and Gen X. Lead was gone from gas before the Ys and Zs were born.
It’s still present in urban dust in areas upwind of major highway interchanges. It’s in the dirt, on the buildings… It’s not very reactive.
What are you talking about? All that lead is still in the soil. Car and Driver did an excellent piece years ago about how lead collects in the soil of inner cities. The city I live in now I think must have lead in their water supply because I have never seen so many unintelligent, aggressive people and they only seem to get worse.
Those vectors can be mitigated so there’s a lot less exposure than there was when we breathed in those fumes from our own dad’s car.
Even if lead disappeared from the environment instantly (which it does not as the other commenters have noted), that would only be true for Generation Z. Lead wasn’t completely phased out from gas until 1996, after the VAST majority of Generation Y (Millennials) were born, since 1996-1997 is generally considered the cutoff between the generations. Yes, I know there was a more gradual phaseout in the 1970s and 1980s, so Millennials and younger Gen X would be less affected that older Gen X and earlier.
It may have hung on until ’96, but the vast majority of gas-powered vehicles were unleaded by the early 80s. The impact of those few older cars was negligible.
From my observation the worst drivers in Southern California, and particularly around Irvine, are Tesla drivers – weirdly and especially those in white Model Ys and 3s. But it’s sheer incompetence, slowness, and general inattention to conditions (oh, and cell phones – #$%%&%^&#$^%%$ CELL PHONES!), not some sort of hyper-aggressive recklessness. I think the “Big Altima Energy” anecdotes come more from other regions of the country.
Correct. White model Ys are the devil’s conveyance. I have seen one pull a 3 point turn into a bush to turn around…on a one way street.
Yep the cheap Tesla’s are the worst Tesla’s. They will look you right in the eye and tell you they are saving the planet they moved from Prius to model 3 and y and don’t want to pay the extra for a different color paint. I’ve been told they all have “main characters syndrome” I think they are just narcissistic and probably on the spectrum. On the plus side you can drive a Prius now especially an older one without too many issues.
White used to be the no cost color. Now it’s silver. Any Tesla with a real color hopefully will have a better driver. Tesla’s colors are $1000 to $2000 extra.
It must be a regional thing but 100% correct with Teslas becoming the worst drivers. I know someone who is “afraid of driving” so she paid for FSD to do it for her. She lives in a part of the city that actually has good bus and subway service!
An Altima will be driven like a maniac and visible from 500 yards with parts flapping in the breeze. They’ll be hyper aggressive but usually predictable. A stock bare Model 3 or Y will lunge suddenly at you in a parking lot, slowly try to sideswipe you on the highway, park in handicap, or screech to a halt to let someone out on busy road. Never use signals (no turn stalk for max profit margins).
In my area Camrys are right up there with the same energy. They are plentiful and have become more powerful than necessary.
In my part of Houston, almost every single Altima adheres to the stereotype. But even worse are the four cylinder BMWs that always seem to be driven by people trying to compensate for something by driving as recklessly as possible. They’ll put most of the Altimas to shame.
I’ve also seen a Murcielago and C8 street racing coming off 8 and onto 45, so there’s that.
I had a co worker that was always talking about “Persian race car drivers” I finally asked him what he was talking about. It was BMW drivers trying to kill him on his way to work. Kitted out with all the fake M stuff and just causing havoc.
Yeah, sounds about right. I’ll see them cut across three lanes of traffic and narrowly miss multiple bumpers on the way. Usually at 20+ mph faster than traffic.
I do believe that credit scores are a fair indicator of risk. However, the reasons for that are nowhere near simple. Yet, I also think feeling like you don’t have much to lose can lead to a rather reckless attitude. Especially if it seems like life is going better for everyone else or you feel like a lesser class of person. Credit scores are essentially a caste system after all.
The 3rd and 4th gen 3.5L V6-equipped Altimas with a manual are such a delightfully inexpensive and hoonable vehicle.
Styling wise, I’m partial to the 4th gen Altima SR Coupe. But the biggest appeal is that you can spend $5k on Craigslist and drive away in something that does 0-60 mph in under 7 seconds and can reach 147 mph.
My biggest gripe is that they are FWD. The RWD counterpart Infiniti G35 exists, but it is much heavier and doesn’t look as clean/understated as the Altima and has aged more poorly(as was the likely intent on part of the manufacturer). Ironically, the aero package equipped version of the G35 coupe is almost as aerodynamically efficient as a Prius and is a significant improvement over the Altima coupe, in spite of that fugly oversized grille and large wheels.
Too bad I can’t get that Altima coupe with a similar aero package the G35 and RWD. I’d probably have to expend the time stripping out a G35 of all of its bloat, swapping on modified Altima body panels to fit the Altima’s front and rear lights, while retaining the aero bits, then deleting the grille and replacing it with a panel that has a shrunken hole for JUST ENOUGH air to cool the engine instead of that gaudy oversized “bling” grille, and go back to Altima wheels/tires. I might end up with something close to the aero efficiency of a 1st gen Honda Insight, and it would look good. And with a stripped racecar interior, might end up around 2,700-ish lbs.
That engine can be inexpensively upgraded to Hellcat-like levels of horsepower, too…
I really enjoy the level of analysis that went into this. It’s interesting to see some confirmation that Altima drivers are worse than average.
I think doing some more digging into what other car and driver combos are also below average and how they rank would probably help untangle the puzzle.
While I don’t think using credit rating is a fair metric for risk assessment, I would definitely believe there’s a correlation to low scores and higher risk. Unfortunately, a lot of people have poor credit due to factors outside their control, which is why I’m against it (and my state doesn’t use it—or so it’s claimed) even though it would work in my favor.
As for the Altima scourge, it seems to have pretty much died down here in northeast MA as I suspect most are in junkyards now (wherever those are anymore). Worst by far (and have been for a while) are C/HRV drivers—either dangerously overcautious and clueless or reckless (especially the WTF old ones lowered on big wheels). If I’m stuck in a parade, there’s probably a 50% chance it’s a C/HRV leading with 20% Camry/Corolla (almost never driven recklessly). C/HRV reckless driving would be higher than normal, too, though a much lower percentage against BMWs Teslas, full size pickups (especially if they’re older—but not vintage—and/or a RAM), and Civic and Accord of several generations old, but the latter are mainly only near low income cities.
For the time, it made perfect sense that the Altima was so bad. They were cheap on the used market (not just compared to competitors, but overall, and were often sold by dealers specializing in poor credit buyers), came with a V6 of good power (especially for the time and for inexperienced drivers), are decently sized to be appealingly practical, and overlapped the change in market from large demand for midsized sedans to S/CUVs, dropping the value further than the high supply would have on its own. A lot of these kinds of buyers are young with poor impulse control and/or highly stressed with little to lose (and maybe a lot to prove) and little to no outlet for it, so it all adds up to aggressive behavior on the road. In any era, one could probably go back and find a car that hit many of these particular notes that fit similar driver stereotypes, though with less traffic and generally low used car prices as well as fewer odd market conditions in the past, they probably wouldn’t be quite so visibly a single model.
It’s mainly CRVs/HRVs driving recklessly and impatiently around me as well. I live off of a three lane highway with a 55mph speed limit and stoplights every half a mile and if we’re coming up on a red light, 80% of the time the Honda driver will cut across multiple lanes to be in the least backed up and then immediately cut back over to their starting lane once the light changes. Mazdas and German cars are the same.
> skint
More like broke because of well-known generational economic factors. And all that avocado toast, of course. (/s)
One hypothesis that’s consistent with, but still distinct from, those advanced in the article, and based on nothing but anecdotal observations from my area: Altima owners may have less money and worse credit scores, which forces them to live in less desirable neighbourhoods with less attention to road works by local authorities. This means more potholes etc and more wear and tear on the cars. Less money means stretching maintenance intervals a little more than the average driver, too. This might make Altimas less reliable or generally more prone to accidents due to their condition (e.g. poor brakes, breaking down in traffic, etc), and drivers generally more stressed and maybe angrier.
Specifically, I lived near Oakland, CA and San Francisco, CA, and the state of the roads is bad everywhere but particularly horrid in the poorer parts of those cities, due to neglect from public works and extreme wear and tear from truck routes. And that’s where you see older and less maintained vehicles.
It’s expensive and stressful being broke.
Sentra drivers are worse
Ironic, because BAE happened during my commute home yesterday. I saw the 2014ish Altima speeding in the fast last behind me( I was in the right lane) . It passed me , swerved in front of me with inches to spare and then swerved back in the left lane almost striking the car in that lane. Yes, it was appliance white and with requisite missing wheel cover on the right front. It also had a rear (VA) license plate dangling from the trunk. I see it too often in the NoVa area.
I actually do not have a problem with a newer Altima. I perfectly fine mid size sedan with decent tech , cohesive styling and the option for AWD. But the drivers in the previous versions are next level dangerous.
I would not be surprised if poor credit correlated with deferred maintenance, or driving in dangerous conditions that people with better credit might avoid.
What’s the deal with the Chevrolet Silverado with 133 and the Ford F-150 with 95 aggressive driving accidents? Isn’t the f150 a bigger seller?
You have work truck drivers, you have people that use their truck for work, you have people that use a truck for truck things and you have people that identify as a bulldozer who choose to use a truck for everything. That last subset is very aggressive and will try to kill you just for being on the road. Often times they have modified their truck so it no longer serves it’s utilitarian function with wheels and tires that don’t fit and are for only the street or only stand they will either lower their truck or decide it needs to be 2 feet higher. Granted this extremely dangerous subset only exists in some regions at least in decent numbers.
Those idiots with the lifted trucks with all the off road multiple shocks, ladder bars and 16 inch wide tires with a 3 inch sidewall sticking out 8 inches beyond the fenders are all over the place here. Sometimes with lights underneath. I’m surprised they never tip over from getting their wheels caught.
They really know how to turn something useful into something useless. I saw one all jacked up with the really stupid wheels and low profile street tires the other day. It was sitting really funny with external shocks I looked closer it had external reservoir shocks and it had fallen off his right from wheel had literally fallen off from his idiotic modifications. It was a relatively clean mid 2000s Duramax too that had been painted a terrible orange and purple. I watched him scratch his head and proceed to try to use zip ties to reattach his suspension. Those wide wheels always get me because they are never clearanced and they can’t turn with them. I wish someone would bring sanity back to those people. The lowered trucks aren’t much better behaved around me either I just had one going 10 under and when I tried to pass on the left he decided it was a race and went 20 over through a red light.
I saw a early 00s silverado with the black rattlecan special and crap exhaust, lowered too, that decided to use the shoulder lane to overtake a semi truck. The chassis was visibly flexing a *ton* and that thing was slow af.
There are a ton of stupid pavement princesses + trashy old modified trucks out here (ruralish Texas.) Most of them are obnoxious.
Maybe v notched and not boxed. I think the really dumb over sized wheels and low profile street tires came out of dallas. I saw a guy with an early 2000s Silverado with those at an equipment rental place the GOBs at the place were laughing and asking him where he was taking the machine because it was muddy around. When I dropped off the equipment I rented I asked them about it they said he called and said he was stuck and they had to go out there to get him unstuck.
I’m pretty sure the look began in Florida honestly. First Bro Dozer I ever saw was a first model year Escalade with a well done custom lift and I think 22s which was like a really big deal. This was around 2010. When I moved to Dallas I started seeing them everywhere. Some were legit builds, others were work trucks jacked up to help advertise their roofing/landscaping business. When I saw 133 deaths for the Silverado my mind immediately went to all the Mexicans driving drunk in their 300,000 mile Silverados somehow always with newer OEM wheels. Don’t get me wrong I love stupid trucks, it’s about self expression and artistry for me, but a POS driven by a POS in a dangerous manner is just that, a POS.
They were putting big wheels and low profile tires on the escalades in the early 2000s all over the country. There was that fascination in certain urban communities with “spinners”. You used to see lifted sedans with that treatments too. My understanding of a brodozer is maintains off pavement use. I can understand needing ground clearance for off road and needing big tires and if it’s done right and you can drive it fine but that’s not what’s out there most of the time. The low profile pavement only tires on a poorly lifted truck makes no sense. I get people like lowered trucks I guess if you’re short fine whatever. They say it’s easier to get stuff in the bed. Truck have gotten much bigger and taller over 30 years so I guess there is that. There is also a demographic mainly rural that doesn’t wear seat belts much or at all. Some feel they will hurt you more then going though the windshield? I think part of that comes from getting into tractor cabs and other equipment and not wearing a seatbelt.
Now that they have roll bars on tractors people wear seatbelts. Of all the ways to kill yourself on a tractor, head on collision isn’t even on the first page. Rolling over or flipping over backwards are pretty common and without a roll bar , a seatbelt makes things worse. Also, sometimes you want to stand up.
Driving under low trees in the orchard, and having a big branch get caught on the front of the tractor, then let loose smashing me in the face and simultaneously pushing the hand throttle to full power and nearly scraping me of the back where I would get run over by the brush hog was what nearly got me a few times. Welded a pipe to duck under and started wearing my motorcycle helmet after that.
Cabs on tractors are newer than my farming days.
I’ve seen a guy roll an open station with a roll bar a few times both times wearing a seat belt and he was ok it kept him in there and after the big crash and the yelling for help we got him out and took another tractor to roll it back over. Those old smaller tractors you could jump off up the hill easier then even the small hobby tractors now. The tow behind mower for ATVs work great for orchards now. I was talking to a guy at a new Holland dealer and he basically said they are kings of roll overs I think they are tied with kabota. Too narrow and tall.
Yeah, every time I see a Ford 8n I have an urge to buy one. Everything else seems like a deviation from the perfect small tractor.
Of course those office on wheels tractors that have a database for every tomato plant are a whole other thing. One of my in-laws has a television in his since it mostly drives itself.
Yeah I know guys that don’t even get in just start it up and have the gps take it down the rows. Can just sit there and watch it on a computer or phone screen. If you threw an actual seat on an 8n or Farmall I could see using it for a flat area. They are much more uncomfortable now then I remembered.
On the other hand, the GMC Sierra is well behind either, so aggressive GM buyers go Silverado, conservative GM buyers go Sierra, while both sets of Ford buyers only have one choice and it kind of averages out?
Maybe. I see lots of Chevy tattoos, hardly any GMC tattoos. Of course maybe there are plenty of GMC tattoos but the people who have them are more conservatively dressed.
I suspect the situation is a variation on the (what used to be called) pony car theme.
Back before they transformed into sports cars, pony cars represented relatively cheap, readibly available power, appealing to a wide demographic. Bigger the pool of potential owners, more likely it will include those with, er, questionable outlooks on motoring in public. It was only the long established insurance rates on the V8 flavors that kept things from really getting out of control.
But a similar situation, with, for now, relatively lower insurance rates, and we’re seeing a magnified (or maybe just the same, overall) verison of that?
I recently read a book that referenced a study on drivers based on their car prices. In summary, the more expensive the car, the more they drive like an ass. One of the data points was whether cars stopped for pedestrians in crosswalks. The cheapest grouping of cars stopped around 70% of the time, and the most expensive was 0%.
I’m sure there is a lot of variability between models, and Nissan is the most expensive non-premium brand to insure. However, BMW and Tesla are still 70% more expensive to insure than Nissan. Yes, the expense of repairing those brands is a part of it, but not all of it.