Welcome back! Today’s contestants were direct competitors in their day, and you can tell from looking at their specs. Both are front-wheel-drive luxury sedans with four-cam V8s turned sideways, both are full to the brim of electronic gadgets and gizmos, and both are something your uncle who owned the dry-cleaning business might have bought when he retired.
I try not to put a non-running car up against a running one too often, because it doesn’t seem fair. But yesterday, I figured that the Oldsmobile had enough problems of its own to balance the scales, and in fact, it ended up losing to the little non-op Spitfire. This is definitely the way I would go; I hate doing body and interior work, and I don’t even want to think about replacing a top motor on that big Olds. But mechanical work, on a rust-free little British car? Sign me up.
Someone asked in the comments if the Olds’s Rocket 350 V8 would fit in the Spitfire’s engine bay, thereby neatly solving both problems. I don’t think so; if I recall, a small-block Ford or Chevy V8 will fit, but it’s not pretty. Engines I have seen swapped into Spitfires include both Ford and Chevy 60-degree V6s, Miata twincam fours, Toyota 20R/22R truck engines, Mazda rotaries, and of course Triumph inline sixes from the GT6 or Vitesse. I’ve also seen a BMW M10 four-cylinder installed in something British, but I can’t recall if it was a Spitfire or a TR4. And of course, there’s the guy on Opposite Lock who transplanted a Fiat Lampredi twincam four into an MG Midget – he calls it the Fidget. Lots of possibilities, but no, I think the Delta 88’s V8 is safe.
No engine swaps are necessary today, but you may not enjoy working on either of them. The transverse engine/FWD formula worked pretty well when it was limited to inline fours, but once GM decided to turn a V6 sideways and stick it in the front of a Chevy Citation, it opened up a whole new can of worms when it came to serviceability. Every other automaker that I can think of eventually followed suit, leaving us poor DIY mechanics with a whole host of cars that are damn near impossible to work on.
And then, Cadillac decided to make it two cylinders worse by making a transverse V8. Then it made a dual-overhead-cam transverse V8. And how did Ford respond? In kind. Working on these cars is not fun. Are the rest of them nice enough to make it worthwhile? You tell me. Here they are.
1999 Lincoln Continental – $2,999
Engine/drivetrain: 4.6-liter dual overhead cam V8, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Oakland, CA
Odometer reading: 240,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
The Lincoln Continental is a nameplate with a long and very cool history. From V12 engines to suicide doors to hand-built quality, the Continental meant something special – up until about 1982, that is, when it became yet another Ford Fox body. In 1988, it got even worse, becoming a Taurus in a prom dress, with a lackluster 3.8 liter V6 driving the front wheels. But even Ford realized that a Continental should have at least eight cylinders under its hood, which leads us to this car.
It’s powered by Ford’s 4.6 liter modular V8, with four overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder – the same spec as the RWD Lincoln Mark VIII coupe. But since it’s still largely a Taurus underneath, it’s still front-wheel-drive, so the V8 had to be turned sideways. Regardless of which way it’s facing, though, this engine has a decent reputation for longevity, and this one is no exception – it has 240,000 miles to its name and still runs like a top.
Lincoln’s advertising once claimed its cars were “What A Luxury Car Should Be,” and if you buy into the premise that a luxury car should be soft, quiet, and chock-full of power-operated toys, then yeah, I guess they’re right. I don’t think I’ve ever been in this generation of Continental, but I know the Town Cars from the era, and this looks really similar inside. It’s in good condition, too, especially for the mileage, and the seller says everything works, which is impressive.
Outside, the Continental hides its Taurus roots pretty well, looking more like a mini-me version of the Town Car than anything, especially in black. The paint on this one looks a little dull and faded; I don’t know if it would polish back up or not. But it’s a California car, so you probably don’t have to worry much about rust.
2000 Cadillac DeVille DTS – $2,200
Engine/drivetrain: 4.6-liter dual overhead cam V8, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Staten Island, NY
Odometer reading: 66,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
The Cadillac DeVille, with its infamous Northstar V8, was almost certainly Ford’s reasoning for dropping the V8 into the Continental. Cadillac had been using transverse V8s since 1985, across its range, and phased in the Northstar as a replacement for the older HT overhead-valve V8s in the early 1990s. The Northstar had some well-publicized problems, but eventually got fairly well ironed out, and was certainly a step up in power and refinement over the HT.
This DeVille has just 66,000 miles on it, and is from the year after some changes were made to the Northstar to improve its reliability. The seller says it runs “excellent,” and just passed a state inspection. It belongs to the seller’s grandfather, who is no longer able to drive; a story I bet is common to a lot of gently-used Cadillacs.
Inside, it’s immaculate, as you’d imagine for so few miles, and it even has plastic on the floor mats, just like Grandma’s “fancy” sofa in the front room. It’s loaded with power options, of course, but the seller doesn’t specifically say what’s functional or not, only that the air conditioning “needs freon.” Which, of course, means it probably needs new seals, which dried out because Grandpa never used the AC, because it uses too much gas. He’s on a fixed income, you know.
Outside, it looks good, nice and shiny, though it does have a pretty good dent in the left front corner, and I can’t help but wonder if that dent has something to do with Grandpa’s decision to hang up the keys. It’ll happen to us all eventually. It’s not a big deal, and looking at it, you might even be able to pop it out most of the way, if you can get to the inside of the fender.
Cheap luxury cars are often cheap for a reason – the purchase price is only the beginning, and the car’s complicated mechanical systems neither know nor care that its market value is now so low. Maintenance and repairs are still the same price they were when the car was new, unless of course you’re willing and able to take it on yourself. Then it’s just Ford and GM parts available at any Autozone, and some frustration over the tight quarters under the hood. In either case, the reward is a nice comfy car on an economy car budget. Which one are you going for?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
I’m not scared of high miles, but I’ll take Angelo’s grandfather’s car over:
“ALSO every customer gets a FREE Service Plan for as long as they own the vehicle — which includes FREE diagnosis (up to 1 hour) and Wholesale parts and labor prices in network on any future maintenance or repairs!!”
…every time.
I was slightly leaning toward the Lincoln, but I’ll definitely take this Cadillac over it, even if they both had (the average between them) 153k.
I should go w/ the Caddy due to low miles, but I’m going on preference and will take the Lincoln. I like those better. I don’t like the front end design of the Caddy; also Northstar even though they improved it
The Caddy is silver. Yuck.
Black on Black Lincoln! Hells yeah
I drove a couple of Northstar DeVilles (’95 and ’96 or so) as rentals in San Francisco and found that they drove smaller than they were, although the torque steer would rip the steering wheel out of your hands if you stood on the gas. I only drove a similar vintage Continental for a day or so after I came back from San Francisco and my Mazda was still in the shop after I was rear-ended (my dad set it up somehow), so I don’t remember much about it. The Lincoln’s CarFax shows the “first owner” getting it with nearly 27,000 miles and running it to 69,000 as a rental, but it was long enough ago that I guess any ill effects would have manifested by now. But I did like that Cadillac, and the crunchy and carless friend I stayed with was pushing the buttons and asking how much they went for before my trip was over.
I’m not worried about rust, as I doubt Grandad took that car out in the snow, but as a Staten Island domestic sedan I’d insist on a satisfactory Luminal test of the trunk. If that’s clean, then I might as well see about the air conditioner and whatever possible Northstar amelioration can be done.
The answer is obviously gen1 Hyundai Equus.
the Cady might actually be worse off because of the low miles. the split block seals are the biggest Northstar headache in my mind. Those seals fail from disuse as much as anything else.
I went Caddy because I like it more, but commenting just to say that I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen a Continental from this gen in this color combo, or even just a black interior. Always a white/gold/silver, maybe red, over tan or grey interior.
The Cadillac has much more presence, and I’ve owned enough dumb, unreliable shit that a Northstar doesn’t scare me in the least.
The DeVille is in the details, and I just think it’s a far more interesting car than the bland, blobby, indifferent Continental.
Side note: I didn’t realize GM was putting power tilt-telescoping steering columns in anything back then. That’s one of my favorite features, especially since I like to adjust the wheel periodically during long drives.
Spent a lot of time in a Continental when these were new. Interesting, bland car, but honestly not one I have any desire to own. I don’t really want a DTS either, but at least I haven’t experienced one enough to know I don’t want it. Caddy it is.
I already have a Mach 1 with essentially the same engine, why not double my misery(joy)
if mileage was closer between these two I’d have gone Conti. I liked it better both in and out and it’s got the better engine.
As someone else pointed out the Northstar was still problematic when this car rolled out from the factory (GM wouldn’t fix this engine until 2004) but considering its age and mileage I’d roll the dice on it and fix the A/C for a few hundred more. I wouldn’t even care about that dent when everything else looks mint.
For the price, that Cadillac is okay for a while. Long term, it depends if you’d really want to keep the model.
Del Boca Vista for the win today.
“You think I’ve never ridden in a Cadillac before? I’ve ridden in a Cadillac hundreds of times, THOUSANDS!”
The Cadillac has presence
I’ll take that.
I inherited a 2000 DeVille (base model, not a DTS like this one) from my Grandparents several years ago. Unfortunately, my parents kept it for a couple years first, and rather ruined it before passing it into me. I only kept it for a few months, but damn I loved that car. I’d gamble $2200 to experience that for a while again.
” The Northstar had some well-publicized problems, but eventually got fairly well ironed out,”
It should be noted that the problems were NOT ironed out by the year 2000. Actually the peak problem years for the Northstar were from around 1997 to about 2002.
https://www.cadillacforums.com/threads/northstar-headgasket-cracked-block-bolt-failure-please-let-us-know.122898/
So this particular Cadillac was made in the Peak Problem Years for the Northstar.
Now having said that, for just $2200 and that low mileage, I’d be willing the roll the dice on that Cadillac. And I would drive it as-is and not bother fixing the A/C.
At worst, this would be a great winter beater.
Correct. A good rule of thumb is that the Northstar was ironed out about the time they began installing them in longitude applications, which was CY2003/MY2004 with the STS, SRX and XLR. But at that time, the transverse ones in cars like the DTS and Lucerne were fine.
Ah, OK. The info I found said MY 2000 was the breakover. I guess not…?
They modified the head bolts as an attempted improvement when they redesigned the Northstar in 2000 to run on regular fuel, but they still used fine threads for them until 2004 when they changed it to LS-style coarse threads that fixed it once and for all.
The engines are not sideways. You don’t want rotating mass in a car that isn’t rotating around an axle that has a different orientation from those of the wheels.
As a proud owner of a 98 Continental, (way worse off than this one) I can assure you… The engine is sideways.
Both lower mileage, and lower price? I’m taking the Caddy.
I’d probably lean toward the Connie for the A/C issue alone (too hot where I live) but that Caddie does look nice for the price. Either one of them is one major mechanical failure from the UPull anyway. Props to the Caddie seller for including the walker in the trunk photo to really drive home the Grandpa car point.
I really wanted to go Lincoln, it’s the better car, but not at 3x the mileage. For that, the Cadillac is the better option 100%
That Caddy is a sweet deal for $2200. Hell, even if those “DeathStar” gaskets begin doing their thing, my wife could use it as a work car and in-town grocery runabout. Hard to overheat an engine that runs for six minutes at a time.
You’d be surprised.
I’ll take the CA car with working A/C over the one from rust-land with at least one vital system (A/C is vital in my book) not working with unknown cost to repair.
I didn’t even need to read…Northstar vs 4.6L…not even a comparison…Lincoln all the way.
I’m gonna trade the Lincoln for a Cadillac-ac-ac-ac.