Welcome back! Today’s contestants were direct competitors in their day, and you can tell from looking at their specs. Both are front-wheel-drive luxury sedans with four-cam V8s turned sideways, both are full to the brim of electronic gadgets and gizmos, and both are something your uncle who owned the dry-cleaning business might have bought when he retired.
I try not to put a non-running car up against a running one too often, because it doesn’t seem fair. But yesterday, I figured that the Oldsmobile had enough problems of its own to balance the scales, and in fact, it ended up losing to the little non-op Spitfire. This is definitely the way I would go; I hate doing body and interior work, and I don’t even want to think about replacing a top motor on that big Olds. But mechanical work, on a rust-free little British car? Sign me up.
Someone asked in the comments if the Olds’s Rocket 350 V8 would fit in the Spitfire’s engine bay, thereby neatly solving both problems. I don’t think so; if I recall, a small-block Ford or Chevy V8 will fit, but it’s not pretty. Engines I have seen swapped into Spitfires include both Ford and Chevy 60-degree V6s, Miata twincam fours, Toyota 20R/22R truck engines, Mazda rotaries, and of course Triumph inline sixes from the GT6 or Vitesse. I’ve also seen a BMW M10 four-cylinder installed in something British, but I can’t recall if it was a Spitfire or a TR4. And of course, there’s the guy on Opposite Lock who transplanted a Fiat Lampredi twincam four into an MG Midget – he calls it the Fidget. Lots of possibilities, but no, I think the Delta 88’s V8 is safe.
No engine swaps are necessary today, but you may not enjoy working on either of them. The transverse engine/FWD formula worked pretty well when it was limited to inline fours, but once GM decided to turn a V6 sideways and stick it in the front of a Chevy Citation, it opened up a whole new can of worms when it came to serviceability. Every other automaker that I can think of eventually followed suit, leaving us poor DIY mechanics with a whole host of cars that are damn near impossible to work on.
And then, Cadillac decided to make it two cylinders worse by making a transverse V8. Then it made a dual-overhead-cam transverse V8. And how did Ford respond? In kind. Working on these cars is not fun. Are the rest of them nice enough to make it worthwhile? You tell me. Here they are.
1999 Lincoln Continental – $2,999
Engine/drivetrain: 4.6-liter dual overhead cam V8, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Oakland, CA
Odometer reading: 240,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
The Lincoln Continental is a nameplate with a long and very cool history. From V12 engines to suicide doors to hand-built quality, the Continental meant something special – up until about 1982, that is, when it became yet another Ford Fox body. In 1988, it got even worse, becoming a Taurus in a prom dress, with a lackluster 3.8 liter V6 driving the front wheels. But even Ford realized that a Continental should have at least eight cylinders under its hood, which leads us to this car.
It’s powered by Ford’s 4.6 liter modular V8, with four overhead camshafts and four valves per cylinder – the same spec as the RWD Lincoln Mark VIII coupe. But since it’s still largely a Taurus underneath, it’s still front-wheel-drive, so the V8 had to be turned sideways. Regardless of which way it’s facing, though, this engine has a decent reputation for longevity, and this one is no exception – it has 240,000 miles to its name and still runs like a top.
Lincoln’s advertising once claimed its cars were “What A Luxury Car Should Be,” and if you buy into the premise that a luxury car should be soft, quiet, and chock-full of power-operated toys, then yeah, I guess they’re right. I don’t think I’ve ever been in this generation of Continental, but I know the Town Cars from the era, and this looks really similar inside. It’s in good condition, too, especially for the mileage, and the seller says everything works, which is impressive.
Outside, the Continental hides its Taurus roots pretty well, looking more like a mini-me version of the Town Car than anything, especially in black. The paint on this one looks a little dull and faded; I don’t know if it would polish back up or not. But it’s a California car, so you probably don’t have to worry much about rust.
2000 Cadillac DeVille DTS – $2,200
Engine/drivetrain: 4.6-liter dual overhead cam V8, four-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Staten Island, NY
Odometer reading: 66,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
The Cadillac DeVille, with its infamous Northstar V8, was almost certainly Ford’s reasoning for dropping the V8 into the Continental. Cadillac had been using transverse V8s since 1985, across its range, and phased in the Northstar as a replacement for the older HT overhead-valve V8s in the early 1990s. The Northstar had some well-publicized problems, but eventually got fairly well ironed out, and was certainly a step up in power and refinement over the HT.
This DeVille has just 66,000 miles on it, and is from the year after some changes were made to the Northstar to improve its reliability. The seller says it runs “excellent,” and just passed a state inspection. It belongs to the seller’s grandfather, who is no longer able to drive; a story I bet is common to a lot of gently-used Cadillacs.
Inside, it’s immaculate, as you’d imagine for so few miles, and it even has plastic on the floor mats, just like Grandma’s “fancy” sofa in the front room. It’s loaded with power options, of course, but the seller doesn’t specifically say what’s functional or not, only that the air conditioning “needs freon.” Which, of course, means it probably needs new seals, which dried out because Grandpa never used the AC, because it uses too much gas. He’s on a fixed income, you know.
Outside, it looks good, nice and shiny, though it does have a pretty good dent in the left front corner, and I can’t help but wonder if that dent has something to do with Grandpa’s decision to hang up the keys. It’ll happen to us all eventually. It’s not a big deal, and looking at it, you might even be able to pop it out most of the way, if you can get to the inside of the fender.
Cheap luxury cars are often cheap for a reason – the purchase price is only the beginning, and the car’s complicated mechanical systems neither know nor care that its market value is now so low. Maintenance and repairs are still the same price they were when the car was new, unless of course you’re willing and able to take it on yourself. Then it’s just Ford and GM parts available at any Autozone, and some frustration over the tight quarters under the hood. In either case, the reward is a nice comfy car on an economy car budget. Which one are you going for?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Voted Lincoln simply because I like the look more. No desire to own either but both are probably comfortable distance eaters when running well. Also no northstar motor which helps.
Gambling on the idea that lower miles mean fewer major-league problems in the near future. Going with the Caddy, and let’s hope Grandpa changed the oil.
Grandpa’s old low-mileage Caddy for 2 grand? Sign me up!
Which one is winning? The only things I see are “I’m not scared of…” for both of them lol
Needs Freon? Probably the seals but maybe more. Between that and the dent, I had to go Linc. Plus, I like the looks better esp. if someone else is driving me around.
Yeah, eventually we all will get there with having to hang up the keys and a lot of our folks are getting close or have already done so. Easier if they recognize that it’s time and don’t fight you on it, At least before they have that fender bender to convince them.
Gimme the Lincoln, there’s a company making adapters to bolt that 4.6 to a 302 bellhousing when the transmission inevitably dies. It’ll be great in an old Mustang or Ranger.
I voted for the one that doesn’t have the Northstar LOL
Since the Continental was a Taurus, why didn’t they give it the SHO V8? Or why didn’t they put the Mod in the Taurus?
It has the good Northstar. They eventually figured it out.
No such thing.
Never been much of a GM guy, but I’d give 2large for a 66k plush couch and be down to ride as far as the Northstar would take me.
I’d like to source a 4v 4.6 for an eventual build of my Grand Marquis. Too bad this one is really creeping up in the miles.
I will NEVER own another car with a North Star! I love everything about the Caddy, except the engine that can’t be fixed. I have owned two (Panther based) cars with the 4.6 with zero issues. I have to go with the Lincon.
They fixed the issues with the North Star from 06 and up…..03 and ones below had bad problems.
Easily the Lincoln.
The Continental’s transmission could be in pieces in the trunk and it’d still be the better choice.
Northstars can all be relegated to their base materials and used for something good.
Fun fact: as good as I was and am at identifying the same car from different brands under the same manufacturer, it wasn’t until I was working on one of these Continentals that I discovered it was on the Taurus platform. I thought it was essentially a 4-door version of the Mark VIII (complete with RWD) for the longest time, and had the cool-name Intech V8. When they came out with the updated body style in the mid-’90s it seemed like such a cool spaceship of a car inside and out. Not to say that it isn’t but once the veil of deception is lifted, I can even see the Taurus underneath the mask. It’s the nicest of the Taurus family (how fun would it have been for it to have come in a wagon form like the Taurus and Sable?) but still has those same bones.
Anecdotally, it’s a bit sad to see the end of the FWD-based V8. My XC90 is so equipped, and it can make for a nicely power-dense vehicle.
I like the Continental, my grandma’s neighbors next door had one identical to that until they both passed, it was a nice car to ride in. But I love the DTS of that generation, and I’ve been on Northstar deep dive missions before and came out on top, I’d stud the heads right away, among other things I’d have to at least give a check out or maintenance to, and enjoy it.
Our neighbors had a DTS of similar vintage and it was a money pit. Meanwhile, the Lincoln has proven it can run. Lincoln all the way.
I just made the vote 41-40 in favor of the Honest Abe. The Northstar scares me and the Caddy’s backstory makes me wonder how long it has been sitting around before grandpa finally accepted that he needed to sell it.
“the seller doesn’t specifically say what’s functional or not, only that the air conditioning “needs freon.” Which, of course, means it probably needs new seals, which dried out.”
So replace the seals, pull a vacuum and refill with freon. What’s so hard about that? Its not like you have to pound out and paint a rear quarter panel or patch a rust hole.
I’ll take the Caddy even though Gramps was probably huffing the AC juice.
A Caddy from Staten Island? Good luck getting that combo smell of cheap cigars, Hilfiger cologne, and bruschetta out of the headliner.
I was thinking Swisher Sweets and Aqua Net.
Could even be “All of the above”.
The Lincoln is less likely to need work, but the Caddy is nicer in my book. Caddy is cheap enough where fixing the a/c and dent (and whatever Northstar proofing might be needed) might be worth it.
No, Northstar alone negates the cost argument.
I’d get the Caddy if I had some receipts for the head bolt helical coils that solve the problem. But I’m still scared of it, is the ODO so low because of the driver, or because of the car?
The Lincoln seems to be pretty well built, to look like that with 240k. I might regret it but I’ll roll with the stove pipe hat.
PS If the Cadillac was instead a Buick Park Avenue in the same condition, it would win hands down over either of the two V8s.
Those old Panther platform cars are some of the few American cars that will run reliably forever-ala-Lexus/Toyota style. I have been in a number of older Taxi cabs using these with close to a million miles on the clock.
Panthers are stout, no doubt, but the Continental is on the Taurus’s platform, not the Town Car’s.
Yup, not a Panther, more like a… Lynx? Oh wait no that was an Escort with a fancy grill.
And? The Taurus platform was quite good, simple to work on, easy to find replacement parts, and overall reliable. Was it Camry reliable? No, but nothing but a Camry is, so…
Platform sharing is very common. Going back to Toyota, their entire current small and medium car and “SUV” lineup is based on a single platform.
Just noting critical characteristics. Midsize unibody FWD vs. Fullsize body-on-frame RWD makes quite a number of differences between the two.
Very true. Both have pros and cons. 😉
Kuwait and Oman had Crown Victorias as police cars…and I still see them in Qatar (mostly driven by Locals…).
I still want a Crown Vic. Literally bulletproof. 😀
There are some for sale in Qatar…all at very cheap rates. Parts will be an issue however.
Man, tough choice today. Dad had two Lincoln Town Cars and I know the Ford 4.6 SOHC well. I actually prefer the Cadillac style – it knows what it is and FU if you don’t. I’m still going Lincoln .
3 of the 5 junky cars in my fleet “need freon” so I’m going Lincoln.
Caddy in a walk. Low miles and a low price. PDR the fender, fix the AC, and you’re golden. Plus, I like the look of these Caddys.
The Continental, nice though it may be, just has too much mileage.
I voted Lincoln. If the Caddy “just needs freon”, just add freon. Methinks there’s quite a bit more wrong with it, and it comes from the land of the ice and snow. And road salt. Maybe Gramps Zeibarted it, maybe he didnt…
You or I could just add refrigerant, but a shop will charge the seller $1500 and it won’t make the car worth any more than it is now.
I voted Lincoln because a 25 year old Cadillac looks like you wish you had money but are actually broke.
$1,500???? He could go to WalMart and grab a can for 35 bucks.
A shop isn’t going to just add refrigerant. I’m pretty sure they’re not even allowed to charge a known-leaking system. Shops I worked in, if it wouldn’t hold vacuum for an hour then I wasn’t allowed to charge it. Don’t know if that was company policy or EPA.
But if it does hold a vacuum for an hour no shop is going to charge $1500 just to charge the system. If they do you’ve been going to the wrong shop.
I have little faith in the integrity of most shops. It’s going to end up with a new evaporator core whether it needs it or not.
R-134 is $12/can at my local Autozone which is in CARB country so if we have it you’ll probably have it too.. You’ll probably need two cans. Autozone loans out the tools too.
Seals and valves are seriously dirt cheap. As long as that’s all it is and the compressor is OK you could probably have this system running cool in a day for about $50.
In my cursed jurisdiction you can’t even buy refrigerant gasses without a special license, which in my case expired long ago. People substitute other gases, especially propane apparently, which I’m sure has interesting results from time to time…
Interestingly there are already heat pumps on the market (in Europe I think) that use propane as the refrigerant. There’s talk it will one day replace R-134, though there are some hurdles to clear in the US regarding the small issue of it being highly flammable…
The allure of propane is that it’s a comparatively mild greenhouse gas, in terms of I guess reflected sunlight trapped per ton in the atmosphere. But given that there are probably still some old timers who find a leak by waiting for their torch to change colour… We’ll see. It was recently discovered that a bunch of the ‘modern’ replacements (400 and 500 series gasses) have their own unpleasant side effects. And good ole ammonia is, of course, toxic.
There are also people round here who run diesel engines on propane. Hank Hill’s paradise, really.
I remember reading somewhere that the cheap recharge cans you buy off the shelves at auto parts stores are basically just propane.
Only if it says propane. If it says R134 it had better be R134 else lawsuit.
Hmm, I’ve never looked closely at the package because despite some of the shitboxes I’ve owned they’ve all blown cold. Next time I’m in Canadian Tire I’m going to check.
Actually I have no idea if the AC in my accord worked. Never drove it in the summer and so never tried it. That was a true winter beater but it always started and my maintenance outlay was a few jugs of coolant and 1 oil change in 2 winters.
I live in a part of the world where “needs freon” makes me think twice. I’ll take the boring Lincoln.
The Cadi’s got the looks while the Lincoln looks like it’s going to pick someone up at the airport. DeVille all day.