On Sept. 28, California Governor Gavin Newsom vetoed a bill calling for speed limit warning systems on all new cars in California. While this might sound like a win for agency and responsibility of free will, it’s merely the first battle. See, the end game of this speed warning mission is a whole lot bigger than California.
I’ve previously written about this piece of proposed legislation, SB-961, so if you missed that coverage, here’s the gist of it: It was a proposal to mandate audible speed limit alerts for any new vehicle sold in California from 2032 onwards. The suggested implementation was a bit flawed, with the bill calling for “an integrated vehicle system that uses, at minimum, the GPS location of the vehicle compared with a database of posted speed limits,” but a passive audible alert system sounds like the least invasive way of doing something like this.
However, the vetoing of this bill isn’t a case of striking back against safety nannies because everyone would just turn them off anyway. Instead, it’s a case of waiting to see what the federal government does first. In a veto message, Governor Newsom wrote:
While I appreciate the intent to improve traffic safety, this bill presents several challenges. Federal law, as implemented by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), already regulates vehicle safety standards, and adding California-specific requirements would create a patchwork of regulations that undermines this longstanding federal framework. NHTSA is also actively evaluating intelligent speed assistance systems, and imposing state-level mandates at this time risks disrupting these ongoing federal assessments.
Indeed, if NTSB get its way, every new car in America could one day come with alerts or soft governors tied into some system of gleaning the speed limit on a given stretch of road. Now, there might be a few problems with this, so let’s start with the downsides of drawing speed limit information from map data.
The first is that every communication network generation eventually sunsets, so if a vehicle doesn’t have access to the latest speed limit data, its Intelligent Speed Assistance program might not be accurate. Think of all the cars caught in the sunsetting of 3G and you’ll see where the issue lies. It also might not be accurate in reduced-speed work zones without constant, vigilant updating of map data, which would require coordinating resources on a vast scale.
Alright, what about drawing speed limit information from camera-based traffic sign alert systems using hardware already built into vehicles? Well, that sounds more current, and is likely a better idea, but only if the Intelligent Speed Assistance system is one of speed limit warning rather than speed limitation. Let’s say that a sign indicating a limit change is obscured by, say, a tree, and the camera in the windshield doesn’t pick it up. This would only be mildly annoying with a passive warning system, but if a power-capping speed limiter is in place and a speed limit increase isn’t detected, it could lead to potentially hairy speed differentials between vehicles with speed limit limiters and surrounding traffic without. After all, it takes decades for technology to be fully implemented in the U.S. light vehicle fleet, so even if Intelligent Speed Assistance were implemented on all new cars, it wouldn’t be everywhere for a while.
Of course, there is another question surrounding Intelligent Speed Assistance — if it is implemented, what if people just turn it off because it’s annoying? For years, we’ve been seeing people turning off or figuring out workarounds for features like lane centering and automatic start-stop, so why would Intelligent Speed Assistance be any different?
Obviously, there may be some insurance ramifications to this, but not everyone will be conscious of that. Driving slightly over the speed limit, to some extent, is a culturally acceptable thing in America, so changing those perceptions will be an uphill battle. Still, the war on speed isn’t over yet, so we’ll just have to wait and see whether, over the next few years, driving in America changes forever.
Gavin Newsom image credit: State of California
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My biggest objection is the same as any self-driving software that includes negotiation or cooperation between different vehicles.
Individual automakers will turn this into a War of Privilege.
Who can go a fraction of a MPH faster than other cars? Who can leave the four way stop intersection slightly sooner than the others? Who can yield slightly less often than others? Who can merge into a slightly smaller space than others? Who is willing to do rolling stops at slightly higher speeds than the others?
A War of Privilege is inevitable because if drivers aren’t in control, they will eventually notice which brand of vehicles take priority over the others, and they will buy more of those. Even if it’s only a perception. And makers will notice, too, and build to that perception.
In my urban, residential area, Google maps thinks the speed limit is 80km/h.
Which wouldn’t set off the speed limiter but is an example of how maps can’t be trusted.
I also kinda wonder how cameras would handle the “you’re going to fast, we’re showing you an angry face” signs that are around school zones here, since they’re the same shape as a speed limit sign.
Fuck all this noise and the nannies
“I CAN’T DRIVE…55!!!”
OK, I’m all for California’s EPA waiver to deal with its unique environmental issues via CARB, but did NO ONE proof read this for how it could used against them?
I remember my uncle had Mitsubishi Pajero and it was for Emirates market.
The freaking thing would chime over 120kmh and you couldn’t turn it off.
when we would go fishing in multiple cars I would make sure we cruise at 125kmh in our diesel Patrol just to piss him and my cousin off.
Good memories
Look, most people who are speeding are already well aware that they are speeding, they are doing it on purpose. You want to reduce speeding? Hire more traffic cops and write the tickets.
Actually I think photo ticketing, much as I hate it, is what actually works. It takes the bias/motivation/laziness of police out of the equation and just coldly records speeders. Make it legal to deploy in school zones, tune it like yellow light duration to get dangerous behavior vs. tickets correlated well, and I don’t think you’d get too much argument.
Yet another reason I’m glad I drive a vehicle from the 90’s
Is there truly a proposal for limiting the speed of the vehicles? I understand the auditory warnings but these really should be separated (although both would be troubling really).
If Cali or the Fed implemented auditory warnings I’m sure they would have to add this to annual inspections because everyone would be searching for YT videos for how to disable them.
But actually limiting the speed of the vehicle? That would be a major safety issue. For a lot of years after the implementation, most of the cars on the road would not be limited! You would be driving along unable to regulate your position in traffic or change lanes in necessary situations due to most other cars being well above the speed limit.
I would also be surprised if local governments didn’t lobby against it. How are they going to
massively increase revenue and target people for illegal searchesprotect public safety if they can’t pull us all over for speeding?I agree with a bunch of the criticisms in the article and other comments. I also see two additional issues for such a system if implemented in my state.
1 – my state has an implied 55MPH speed limit on unposted roads (of which there are lots). Transitions from low speed zones to unmarked 55MPH are often marked poorly (sometimes not at all). This would probably confuse a camera-based system (it occasionally confuses humans, too).
2 – my state has codified an exemption for people driving less than 10MPH over the posted limit. 64 in a 55 zone is technically legal, which has lead to numerous interesting legal situations. A hard limiter as described in this article would appear to fall afoul of this legal quirk. Which would probably lead to another round of law suits like speed cameras did.
Speed cameras have been through several legal challenges in my state (10MPH exemption, among others). If I understand the current legal situation the cameras are legally allowed, and they do send out tickets, but the tickets are not traffic citations, and are not legally enforceable (payment is voluntary). This has lead to a local elected official lamenting that less than half of automated tickets get paid, and the local government is missing out on revenue!
The legal situation is changing next month, with the state requiring municipalities to request permits before cameras may be used. But it appears the tickets will still be unenforceable. My takeaway is that our state government doesn’t like Automated Traffic Enforcement. I imagine they wouldn’t like mandatory Automated Vehicle Control, either.
IANAL, but I believe the problem that you have with speed cameras is that courts (maybe up to the SC) ruled that the Constitution requires that you be able to face your accuser in court and you can’t drag the traffic camera into the courtroom, therefore there is no way to enforce tickets from a speed camera.
Place a piece of tape over the camera.
i propose that the cost of implementing this type of system would be better spent on driver education and period RE-licensing.
Had a Volvo rental recently that had a speed alert, it would go off just 1 mph over. It was annoying as you’re not going to brake going down a slight hill just for 1-2 mph over. I also found that the speed limit shown on the dash didn’t always correlate with the actual speed limit signs.
Where did you get that picture? High school yearbook?
I’d prefer this solution: I had a rental Audi a few years ago in Denmark and for the first couple days I thought the cruise control was totally broken until I realized it was a driver-set speed governor. First push set it to your current speed and then moving the stalk up or down adjusted by 5kph (number shown on the dash). Once set, you just drove as you liked except the car wouldn’t accelerate past the set speed. I found it super helpful since I’m calibrated in mph, the highway limit default was 130 in Germany (with delightful exceptions), 120 in Denmark, and 110 in Sweden, and my desired number of interactions with foreign law enforcement is 0.
Amazing that anyone is OK with more regulation in the first place. Those suits can fuck the fuck off.
I feel a bit sad for people living in Cali. Your “boss” is a tyrant.
In a democracy your “boss” is the majority. California voters’ experiences with pollution produced the popular support for CARB. Other states did not have the same problem, and hence did not apply the same regulations.
Well, they DO have the same problem, just not to the same degree, so they did nothing and now the problem is worse.
Houston smog makes LA look like Fargo.
The Stink of Liberty
“Houston smog makes LA look like Fargo.”
Smog makes people go out and buy wood chippers?
No, and I’m pretty sure there are no more GM A-bodies running around in California.
I was referring to the air quality.
Pretty sure the V-Dub “unpimp your auto” guy being aerosolized isn’t a boon to air quality.
(Steve Buscemi’s accomplice is also the actor in those VW ads.)
I’m not gonna pretend to know the general mindset of Cali (other than being there many times and the friends I have there), but it seems “majority” is doing some heavy lifting.
Exactly why the USA is a republic and not a democracy. This country was set up to protect from the Tyranny of the Majority and it’s surprising how many people forget that.
If you think that limitations on pollution (a cost imposed by a minority on everyone) are the same as capital-T tyranny, I’m not sure we can have a conversation.
Nice straw man
It’s literally the topic at hand
Ok, you gotta explain this take, lol..:
(a cost imposed by a minority on everyone)
Sorry that this was not obvious, but it’s a basic concept of economics. An external cost occurs when producing or consuming a good or service imposes a cost (negative effect) upon a third party. Tuning a diesel truck to make smoke doesn’t just use the driver’s fuel, it worsens the air everyone else breathes.
So where is it stated that, above common sense, a “cost IMPOSED by a minority” is ok, and somehow not tyranny?
So it instead enshrines the tyrrany of the minority? I’ve never really understood this take.
The USA was setup to prevent all forms of tyranny, including tyranny of the minority. My point is just because there is a majority doesn’t mean it’s not tyranny. California’s majority is so large it largely runs unchecked and is literally hollowing out communities of people through failed policy of the super majority.
That’s really funny.
There wouldn’t be a supermajority if public opinion wasn’t overwhelmingly against you.
I’m sorry that you’re being frustrated due to the fringe opinions you hold in your location, but that’s exactly how things are supposed to work in a just society.
Majority rules with consent of the minority, and due consideration for fringe groups. Sometimes the amount of consideration due to fringe groups is barely above none at all.
It’s not tyranny. You’re being overly dramatic.
Tyranny is not a on or off issue, there are degrees of it, no need for dramatics. The issue that I’m referring to is the right to farm which the state of California is at war with. Farming is not what I would call a fringe issue but everyone has an opinion. Farming will eventually leave the state and move to other states where it is not a “fringe issue” but it’s a huge waste of some of the most fertile land in world.
There are many other so called fringe issues in California such as manufacturing, lumbar etc. Those industries built California and as they are pushed out California will continue to decline.
I mean, speed limits are already the law.
Exactly.
I don’t know if you’ve driven in the US in the last two years, but current law enforcement isn’t accomplishing the goal of speed limits (having safe driving conditions). While this proposal seems pretty hamhanded, making it so people have a harder time going 80 in a 55 (i.e. not flagrantly break the EXISTING law) doesn’t seem tyrannical to me.
Isn’t is more of tides level everything out? But, if you as a grown adult, want others to tell you what “smart” is…have at you.
Me? I’ll handle not mowing down children on my own.
I’m glad you are such a conscientious driver that stricter enforcement of speed limits wouldn’t affect your behavior. As somebody that walks his kids to school every day, I can tell you that you are in the minority.
And that is up to you and your community to correct. Just because your experience is a problem, doesn’t mean others see the same.
I don’t speed in your school zone. It’s YOUR school zone. Fix it locally.
Ah yes the typical “California bad” comment seen on every automotive space.
So you acknowledge there is a squeaky wheel? Hmm…
I don’t even know what you’re trying to hint at since you do a terrible job at communicating judging from the comments you’ve left elsewhere in this post.
I don’t hint at much. You popped in out of nowhere to slap around some generically personal observation. Yet, you don’t elaborate on it.
Basic slacker snark fixes nothing.
I mean, gosh, just take it from anyone who’s driven a car that puts the speed limit on the dash: sometimes those get it WILDLY wrong. Like, 30 on a big road, 50 on a neighborhood cow path kind of wrong.
I laugh when Google tells me the limit is 65 on a poorly maintained double-track county road that I can barely do 25 on with my adventure bike.
Gosh, yeah. It’s so frequently inaccurate that it’s unreal.
There’s a trail near me that is somehow logged as a highway on Google with a speed limit of 55mph, but aside from maybe someone in a rock buggy with 40″+ tires, 5-8mph is about as fast as one can go with 33″+ tires without causing vehicle damage.
THIS. The tech isn’t ready. I have a camera system in a couple of cars. It often misses signs, so when I get off the freeway and onto residential streets it claims the limit is 55. Since I don’t use the curse on city streets that’s not a problem. But sometimes on the freeway at 70 MPH the camera sees a speed limit sign for the weigh station lane off to the right (25 MPH) and starts heavy braking, and I have to disengage quickly before I get rear-ended.
As for using GOS – well, I have CarPlay on one stretch of road claim it’s 40, but several cars claim it’s 55 (there’s no sign). The cars are correct, it’s 55. But going by the bad CarPlay database I’d get warned (or throttled on speed if the Feds get their way).
What’s really stupid about NHTSA is they have spent forever coming up with stupid, arcane headlight rules (instead of just using the ones in the EU that seem to work just fine), blocking us from getting the far superior abilities of EU headlights. But this stuff they want to ram down our throats before the tech is even reliable.
I really wish we’d realize that “hey, the rest of the world doesn’t like dying, either” and standardize more of our safety regulations across countries. Like, I want small cars and they can’t seem to justify them for the U.S. market for very long.
I do not want Europe’s bing-bong stupid speed warning system, though. Screw that idiotic idea in particular.
I have it in some of my cars *but* you can turn it off (and I did). Yeah, the tone was annoying. It still flashes the speed limit sign in the heads-up display, but I can live with that (I think I can turn that off too but I don’t mind that sort of reminder).
The most frequent error is the car thinks speed limit is 25mph just because there’s a 25mph sign for a school zone. The system doesn’t know it is applicable only at certain times.
The “here, have a speed limit” signs sometimes get confused on race tracks, too. No limit specified! Must be 25 or 55 mph!
Expect to see speed limit signs covered in Paintball splatter soon.
I would actually support this in VERY LIMITED situation. For example, school zones. They don’t move, and the school schedule is public knowledge, so it should be easy to set these up for time and date.
If you go less than 5mph over the limit, you get the warning chime. 5-10 mph over the limit and you are automatically issued a ticket.
If you’re going over 10mph over the limit in a school zone, your car is bricked. It shuts down right there, and an inflatable beacon is deployed encouraging everyone in the area to hurl bricks at your car. And you lose your license.
And if you pass a school bus that is stopped to pick up/drop off kids, it’s bricked, and a load of bricks is dropped. The kids are encouraged to exit the bus and pelt your car with you trapped inside.
I might start using those stickers which go over the laptop cameras and put them on the windshield to cover the car’s camera
Newest car I’ve ever owned is a 2006. I drove a 2022 car for the first time recently and was amazed at all the annoying nanny features it had. It was constantly beeping at me and the engine quit every time I stopped. I’d say I’ll never buy a car with a speed limit or even a speed warning, but I honestly don’t want any of this stuff. If I want to drift off the road and hit a tree, that’s my right damnit, and I want to do it in peaceful silence.
I have noticed that on Google Maps, many of the speed limits are missing or do not match the signs on the roads. You can go a long way in rural areas without even seeing a speed limit sign.
I know that in the urban area I live in, the highways are full of people going 20+ over the limit, which is dangerous.
Should we go back to making slow malaise-era crap cans that cannot go fast? (no)
Any time I drive more then 15 minutes somewhere the speed shown from the system is different than posted at least once. I don’t know who maintains the system, it’s just there in the car. But it is often wrong. And this is not in rural areas at all.
Probably a case of “we’ll make laws and the state will figure out how (NOT) to make them work”.
I think any speed limiting system is dumb. But my main problem with your argument is. Malaise car are not quick. I have had multiple cars dating from 71-92 and all of them would break 100mph.
They will go fast
I have one set in our 3 series at 8mph over the limit, but it’s just there for me as a warning if I’m not paying attention. Also, that speedometer seems off from the factory by 2-3 mph, so I’m really only doing 5 over at that point. In Detroit that isn’t even keeping up with traffic in the slow lane.
No need for this to be mandated. It won’t do anything but annoy people.
I have one set in my car for a few mph below the VA ‘go to jail’ limit of 80 mph. I rarely hit it, save on 70-mph interstates whilst I’m still being passed by traffic. Similarly, it’s just a “hey, be aware” thing as my car is so smooth compared to my prior that I still haven’t developed a feel for my car’s speed, especially since I replaced the engine mounts.
To quote the governor’s veto statement:
“…adding California-specific requirements would create a patchwork of regulations that undermines this longstanding federal framework.”
Isn’t that exactly what CARB is?
shhhhhhhhh
Yes, but two wrongs don’t make a right. Let’s not give them any ideas.
Yeah, CARBuretors forever! I mean, fuel injection forever!
Wait, what were we talking about? Ha ha
Gasoline forever!
Specific cases require specific measures.
CARB is there because there were days when you couldn’t see the house across the street due to noxious smog. Things were out of control in that specific location.
The safety hazards due to exceeding speed limits is universal, not California-specific, and is nowhere near as bad. So it doesn’t warrant a local solution at this time.
Yes this is also a great argument against CARB, which should at the very least no longer exist now that federal emissions standards are good enough.
However, Newsom doesn’t care about the dissonance here because that’s not his real reason for vetoing this. The real reason is it’s deeply unpopular and would provide fodder for right wing attack ads leading up to the election. His whole recent slate of vetoes is in service of this aim (gas stove labeling, etc). There’s also a sprinkling of attempting to paint himself as a moderate for the next presidential election.
A couple of months ago I rented a Skoda in Italy that had this – it would chime a couple of times when it recognized you were over the speed limit. It was annoying as hell.
So the downsides are that your car will be obsolete quicker, you can only safely travel in ‘well-infrastructured’ areas, and a massive bureaucracy will be needed to support and enforce it all.
Those are all actually upsides, not downsides, for the kind of vampires who dream this crap up.
job creation!