For about as long as the car’s been around there have been people, businesses, and governments trying to build “peoples’ cars.” These are cars meant to get the masses on wheels with great affordability, durability, and a charm you won’t find in other vehicles. In the 1980s, Canada’s Bombardier tried to create a modern people’s car with the Venus, a tiny Daihatsu-powered cutie that would have been so cheap you could charge it to your credit card. Here’s how Canada could have gotten its own Beetle for the modern era.
Earlier this week, I got to experience BRP’s first two-wheel motorcycles in nearly 40 years. You’ll have to wait until next week to read about how they rode, but for now you can follow me down into a rabbit hole of obscure Canadian vehicles. While I was hiding from the insane Texas heat I sparked up a conversation with an enthusiastic BRP representative.
Now, as many of our readers know, I love more than just motorcycles, but cars, planes, trains, and so much more. BRP’s predecessor company, Bombardier, produced darn near all forms of transportation. Can-Am’s previous world-dominating motocross bikes were built under the Bombardier nameplate, as were Sea-Doo personal watercraft and Ski-Doo snow vehicles. Bombardier even built boats!
If you’re a transportation obsessive like I am, you may also know that Bombardier bought out Canadair and became responsible for those awesome Canadair Regional Jets that still fly around the world. Bombardier even took over Learjet and de Havilland Canada. If you ride the rails, there’s a chance you’ve even ridden on a Bombardier MR-73 rubber tire metro in Montreal or a Bombardier R62A in the New York City Subway.
Joseph-Armand Bombardier started his empire with the idea of improving snow transportation in Canada and it grew into a powerhouse of nearly all things that move.
The recreational division of Bombardier was spun off as its own company, Bombardier Recreational Products (today known just as BRP, Inc.) in 2003. Most of what was left of Bombardier was sold off after the expensive 2016 launch of the Bombardier C-Series (today known as the Airbus A220) brought the company to its knees.
Today, Bombardier is known for selling the fastest civil aviation aircraft in current production, the Global 8000 business jet.
Bringing Tiny Euro-Style Cars To Canada
For this story, we’ll have to go back to the 1980s. The Can-Am motorcycle program had already been punted to a manufacturer in England while the Spyder was still two decades away. Bombardier was lining its pockets with money from its rail division and the company was flirting with other road vehicles like producing the Volkswagen Iltis as well as buses.
As La Presse writes, it was the early 1980s when Bombardier president Laurent Beaudoin visited Paris and found himself fascinated with a type of car not seen in Canada. Over in Europe, you can buy a quadricycle or a voiture sans permis “car without license.” These tiny vehicles don’t go very far or very fast, but they’re cheap, don’t require their operators to have a formal driver’s license, and are safer in crashes than a bicycle. These vehicles are also a way for 14-year-olds to drive cars before they’re able to drive “real” cars.
Beaudoin became so enamored by these cute cars that he returned to Canada and had to show the vehicles to Yvon Lafortune, who then ran Bombardier’s operations in Valcourt. Later, Lafortune would be known as a founding president of Nova Bus, the company that built my RTS-06 and later, the innovative Nova Bus Low Floor Series.
As La Presse continues, Lafortune followed up Beaudoin’s love for the European tiny cars by visiting their manufacturers and seeing if they were interested in bringing their tech to Canada. Unfortunately, Bombardier found out quickly that the microcars didn’t stand a chance at complying with Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
That didn’t deter Bombardier. It would move forward with its tiny car project. The car would no longer be more or less a clone of what was in Europe, but still an absurdly cheap car for the masses. Bombardier even found a manufacturing partner with Daihatsu, a brand that was looking to take a crack at the North American market.
Bombardier’s idea was that it would build most of the car and Daihatsu would provide a small engine and transmission. It was now 1984 and Lafortune assembled a team at a former Bombardier family farm that was turned into a design center. Bombardier’s car was born in the facility the company affectionately called “the barn.”
That car would come to be known as Project Venus, where Venus was an acronym for Vehicle, Economical, New, Utilitarian, and Safe. The Venus would have a radical design ahead of its time, but cost under $5,000 (11,724 CAD today) so a Canadian could charge the car to their credit card.
A Snowmobile Manufacturer Designs A Car
Now, keep in mind that by this point, Bombardier knew how to build Ski-Doos, motorcycles, and trains. The company did not have an automotive division. It was even still two years before Bombardier would buy Canadair. Bombardier filled the team with people who were rookies at designing and building production cars.
One of the car’s designers was Jean Labbé, who at the time graduated from the Art Center College of Design in Los Angeles only just that year and had no auto industry experience. According to La Presse, Labbé had the choice of starting from the bottom at GM or joining Bombardier’s crazy project and designing a whole car. Joining Labbé was Louis Morasse, another recent graduate with only six months of industry experience from an internship at Peugeot. Morasse took Labbé’s design, refined it, and turned it into something that could be presented to Bombardier and Daihatsu.
Speaking to La Presse, Morasse mentioned that the Venus development was different. While designers for an automaker may compete with each other, Bombardier’s fresh grads collaborated with each other to reach one common goal.
Still, Bombardier was very much figuring things out as it went on. The engineering and design team built a full-scale model out of wood and putty, the same stuff they used to make Ski-Doo bodywork in the studio. But they never used this method to build anything on the scale as a whole car. Apparently, the Venus model was comically heavy, but it got the point across.
Perhaps harder, as La Presse notes, was turning the concept and the mock-ups into a real car. The lead engineer for chassis engineering and prototyping, Yves Fontaine, had lots of experience modifying rally cars, but never built a production car. So, a novice was essentially leading a team of rookies. That sounds like a rough mix, but the team put their heads down and made a working prototype in six months. The Venus development mule was a Japanese car cut down and modified to the rough specs of the Venus, but it performed well enough in testing at Transport Canada’s facility that even Daihatsu’s engineers were impressed.
Two more prototypes were built, edging the car closer to production. The project moved forward and it was time to refine the design for production and set up manufacturing, sales, and all of the other steps from safety to just designing parts. Daihatsu’s engineers didn’t know how to build a car to North American safety standards and the guys in Canada never built a production car, so Bombardier had to reach out to consultants in Detroit.
Sold Through Sears
The Daihatsu partnership also became more of a joint venture. The Charade and Rocky models that Daihatsu wanted to sell in North America would be built in Valcourt alongside the Venus.
The plans for the Valcourt facility would have called for a capacity to build 100,000 Venus cars a year. It was expected that the factory would come online in 1988, building 870 Daihatsu Rockys that year before hitting 20,500 units by 1992. According to Automedia, it was also expected that the factory would build 120,000 Charades on top of the other two models. It was believed that numbers like these would have made Daihatsu on board, even if they were ambitious. As Automedia notes, it was even expected that 80 percent of the Valcourt facility’s production would have been shipped south into the United States.
Of course, the other question would be where would these cars be sold and serviced. Again, Bombardier wasn’t an automaker, so it had no car dealership network. Sure, it had a vast network of Ski-Doo snowmobile dealers, but those were often small rural family-owned businesses that weren’t equipped to sell and service a whole car.
Bombardier then got an idea. What if the Venus was sold through Canadian Tire in Canada and by Sears in the United States? Both companies had a service garage network and existing customer bases. Reportedly, both companies liked the idea of selling a cheap car. Sears had previous experience doing just that. In its past it sold motorcycles, cars, tires, batteries, and entire houses:
According to the Globe & Mail, the projected total cost to put the car into production could have been $500 million (1,278,041,074 CAD today), but it would never come to fruition.
Daihatsu Gets Wise
While Daihatsu was a joint partner in the Venus project, it eventually figured it could cut out the middleman and just sell its own cars in America without Bombardier’s help. That was bad news for the Valcourt factory, which would go from building three cars to just the Venus.
Bombardier tried to get Daihatsu back by proposing dividing the U.S. market into two sections marked by the mighty Mississippi River. But that wasn’t a deal that would have worked. By this time, it was 1986 and Canadair was now on Bombardier’s radar, which threatened the Venus project.
Bombardier tried to save the Venus by proposing an idea to gather the entire recreational division and establish it as a company where Bombardier would own 51 percent and Japan could invest in the rest. It’s not known how Daihatsu felt about this, but the plan was dealt a blow by the Japanese yen shooting up in value compared to the Canadian dollar. In the end, Bombardier and Daihatsu had too many differences and the Venus project stalled out in the 10th or 11th hour in 1987.
But Daihatsu itself remained inspired enough to keep going with its plans. The Rocky and Charade hit the North American market to slow sales. Daihatsu called it quits in 1992 after burning 12 million USD.
The Venus never became a real car. The sole self-propelled prototype resides in the Musée de l’ingéniosité J. Armand Bombardier in Valcourt and it’s mostly form over function. It has a working three-cylinder Daihatsu engine and a five-speed manual transmission. However, basically everything else is fake. For example, the interior has crank handles for the windows, but the cranks don’t do anything since all of the windows are fixed.
What Could Have Been
It’s not entirely known what would have happened if the Venus went into production. The 1980s and 1990s were packed full of affordable tiny cars from Japan from manufacturers who knew what they were doing and had growing dealer networks. Meanwhile, Bombardier was hoping that you’d buy its Venus from Sears like how people bought Allstate cars in decades past.
Ultimately, abandoning the Venus and instead betting on aerospace seems to have been the right choice. Bombardier spent the 1990s flying high on fortunes and as reported by Maclean’s, shares soared high enough that the company that so many people couldn’t even pronounce was one of the most valuable in Canada.
If you want to see the only other pictures of the Venus that exist online, I highly recommend reading the La Presse article.
Still, it’s fun to think what could have been. Canada was so close to having its own homegrown Yugo or Geo Metro, but it all fell apart so close to becoming reality. Maybe a BRP obsessive today could have had a garage with a classic Venus parked next to a Can-Am Spyder parked next to a Ski-Doo sled. That’s weirdness only Canada could deliver.
Top graphic flag image: Depositphotos.com
It’s incredible how much Bombardier did up until about two decades ago, and what’s left out of it.
I have a soft spot for the brand as I worked for a metal working supplier of them in the 2010s. We built many of the Short Brothers branded hydraulic lines and ducts for their business jets and CRJ series (yes, that Short Brothers company which made one of the first airplanes in history was owned by Bombardier until recently).
I enjoyed that phase very much as I also worked on Gulfstream IV and V spares (creating work instructions out of poorly scanned 1980s – 1990s drawings was such a feat) as well as Inconel and Titanium parts for the mighty RR Trent 900 powering the Airbus A380.
When I left the company in 2017 there were already telltale signs Bombardier was in trouble as purchase orders had been on decline for the last couple years. Even my former manager was fired a couple years after I left.
An empty Bombardier plant sits in my hometown of Auburn, NY. It’s been closed for 20 years. Someone still pays a security guard to sit there 24/7. I was in there a couple years back, a lot of it has fallen to disrepair.
So did this have the 993cc three-cylinder from the Charade? Daihatsu also had a 548cc three-cylinder from mid-1985, but that feels like it might have been a bit small to even run a Canadian-dimensioned heater.
In similar news, the Portuguese Entreposto company built about 500 of the Sado 550 in the mid-80s, a plastic-bodied microcar with a two-cylinder Daihatsu engine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entreposto
Yukon Yugo :v
Bombardier got screwed by Boeing *hard* with the now Airbus A220.
A lot of the Bombardier aerospace IP now belongs the Thomson family who owns Reuters among other things. They now all cluster under De Havilland Canada. Bombardier only makes business jets.
There is something called the Project Arrow that is for the EV generation https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/automotive-industry-arrow-apma-ettractive-invest-windsor-essex-flavio-volpe-1.7091539 One of the biggest backers is Windsor.. home of the Windsor engine plant. Interesting (collaborative) way to make EV that’s for sure.
Great story! I love reading tales like this.
Very interesting! From some angles it looks like a baby Seat Ibiza. Convergent evolution probably.
I’d like to see a write up on the Manic GT. That one actually made production IIRC.
Yes, and there are still a few rolling examples, even if I only ever saw a shell on a flatbed a couple years ago. I know a local Quebec City politician has a restored example.
The Manic (named after the Manicouagan River) was mechanically a Renault and the individual who started the entire project was a former Renault engineer who had kept ties with his former company. Unfortunately, what plagued Manic is what caused Renault to fail in North America: Parts and parts availability.
Also worth mentioning, the first car built in Canada was the Fossmobile, by a Mr. Foss. He only built it for himself however, and never had plans of commercializing it. Incidentally, the Fossmobile was built in Sherbrooke (where I grew up), a city about 15-20 min away from Valcourt where Bombardier is headquartered.
Great read Mercedes. I’ve never heard of this and I’m Canadian. How obscure, how obscure.
Just label it as a 4 season snowmobile. No safety and a lot more power.
If the Venus had been sold at Canadian Tire, that means that a truly determined person could pay for one with Canadian Tire Money. That would have been an absolutely epic day for the cashiers who had to count it all; I remember the days when dealing with $300 to $400 worth of the low-denomination bills would keep cashiers busy for a half hour counting it all out since none of the bill counting machines we had were designed to handle those sorts of bills.
Mercedes, here’s some more bus trivia for you:
Bombardier made buses too. The got a contract to assemble and distribute the Vanhool AG700 in 1988. Spent my high school and college years on them going back and forth to downtown Montreal.
I wonder if this is what led Yvon Lafortune to get involved starting Novabus in 1993.
Fun fact: my first job out of school was at a sheet metal company that had about 2/3 of the sheet metal parts for the LFS.
I did recently see a Subaru 360 body sitting on a Can Am side by side frame and underpinnings. that would be a more equivalent Beetle for them. I still wonder what is the hold up with regard to making many side by side 50 states road legal. most seem to have all the safety trappings of more than most of the cars and trucks on the road still.
Fuel economy and emissions.
For context, Canada has an entire trim of cars nicknamed ‘Quebec Special’.
As basic as it gets, manual windows, no ac, manual transmission, that kind of thing.
Why? Salt. Car was going to rot out anyway, might as well buy a cheap disposable one, rinse and repeat.
Have you seen how people park in Montreal? Truly like in France: a nudge here and there is just how it gets done. Why buy nice?
True, like the Nissan Micra. They are so popular in Quebec but they’re pretty much non-existent in Ontario
Easier to parallel park than larger vehicles, and you can be more opportunistic in finding a space.
I’m surprised you didn’t even mention the most common car on your “local”ish subway system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5000-series_(CTA)
Mercedes, this story makes me question you for the first time.
“those awesome Canadair Regional Jets” As a pilot anyone who calls the infamous “Constantly Rebooting Jets” as awesome… I just don’t know what to say.
The day I graduated from the CRJ-200 to the 737 was the happiest day in my entire career. Those things were/are utter garbage for anyone who worked on them from the pilots, cabin crew, ground crew, passengers everyone! Frankly when I think back on all of the equipment I have flown in my 30 year career (I have flown Mad Dogs, 737, CRJ’s, 777’s, Dreamliners and 757’s not to mention many civil craft) and I have never flown a bigger piece of crap.
Not that I am in any way against Bombardier, their business aircraft are ok but when you ask a business jet to do the job of a commercial airliner it doesn’t work. Think of a VW Bug stretch limo. It’s underpowered, uncomfortable and unsafe.
As far as Mercedes taste in Commercial Aircraft… I will give you a pass on this one since you are my favorite Autopian writer..
What’s your opinion on the contemporary ERJ’s that were just a little smaller than the CRJ’s. Those were my favorite planes to fly on out of all the regional jets at the time.
Ah yes, the Brazilian Leafblower!
So I have never piloted an ETJ but from what I have heard from other pilots who I know, they are better then the CRJ’s. The CRJ’s were just plain terrible aircraft in all phases. Aside from the quirks that caused them to get their unfortunate nickname (Constantly Rebooting Jets) where the flight computers would reboot and cause you to sit on the ramp for 25 minutes or more while you prayed they came back up correctly, the thing only had enough power to get the anti-ice to come on at 75% thrust which isn’t a good thing, they were so slow that around the time you get to FL330, which will take around 2 hours because you had to level off at 230,250,270,290 and 310 to take a running start at the next altitude, the APU’s (axillary power units) were always broken. My favorites were 170kt glideslope approaches into Denver in the summer, I always was thanking god that there was 12000′ of runway, because once I flare from that lawn dart of a jet a 5 degree down approach angle would insure that there was a pretty good chance your floating forever and pray that there isn’t too much of a crosswind. Nothing says stability like main wheels that are 6 feet apart from each other. Take off’s were even more fun. Flaps 8? Have fun with your 147kt speed in a plane you have to start flying at 50kts or the wind will pick up a wing and you’ll wing strike the other wing that’s less than 3 feet off the ground already. It’s also so cramped for even a 200lb 5’11” I can’t imagine what our heaver and taller pilots faired. And thats just for the pilots. Even worse are the air conditioning packs where were legendary.. I remember sticking my head back and seeing people with their heads 3 inches from the suckers and craning their necks to look out the tiny windows at their knees.. Don’t even bother to ask the ground crew about fueling them.
Remember that I like dumb things. 🙂 I don’t know what it is, but I just adore how CRJs look. I even intentionally pick the rearmost seat so I can stare at the engines. Maybe it is the fact that these, as you say, are biz jets cosplaying commercial airliners.
Edit: You’ve reminded me that I also have to fly on a Mad Dog before they’re all gone!
There are no Mad Dogs in US airline service any more. Closest you can get is a rebadged MD-95 aka Boeing 717.
Even overseas, they are getting pretty rare.
Gosh darn it! I could have sworn there were a few dozen left, but I may be thinking pre-pandemic. Oh well, a 717 will be good enough.
there’s always the COMAC ARJ21, I suppose
The Mad Dog was and will always be my favorite. While the 757 has power for days and in some ways feels is the most powerful plane I have flown. The mad dog was a fighter jet, had the most balanced controls and was just plain fun to fly. I miss them. Delta flies the 717 as well as Hawaiian and from the perspective of a passenger you will get the same basic experience like the rear mounted engines, high angle of attack and 2/3 seating. At least unless you want to fly in asia or africa
I miss the 757. Hot rod of the skies!
I always preferred the Mad Dog to the 757 from a hot rod perspective. Yes the 757 has tons of power but it is a pussycat to fly. The Mad Dog flew like a fighter jet.
I am with you on the CRJs; it was the most hated plane when I was a frequent-flying pax. However, this past week I flew on a Delta A220, and it was comfortable (I was in first though) and had a nice ride. I haven’t talked to any pilots to see how they like them though.
I have heard good things about the A220. I think they look very nice and I love the 2/3 seating.
I was flying bougie class, where it was 2/2 🙂 All in all a nice aircraft from a pax standpoint. The biggest thing I’ve personally flown was a Cessna 182, so that’s the only opinion I can have!
I am likely driving the big busses for the rest of my career just because of where I am at, so I doubt I will get to fly one, but there is a big part of me that regrets that.
My biggest regret is that I will be at retirement age when the Boom Overture will be rolling out. My dream when I came up was to fly the Concorde (like many young pilots of my generation) so I will miss out on the next wave of SST’s
Never heard of this one either despite being a Canadian who became interested in non-HotWheels cars in the ’80s. Would have been competing against Ladas, Yugos, and Skodas.
Had a Lada and Skoda in Edmonton, missed the Yugo
Did they even sell Yugos up here?
Not sure, have seen a couple
Did Daihatsu actually get wise? Because they didn’t sell many cars, and stopped a fairly long time ago.
Daihatsu is now a budget subsidiary of Toyota: Toyota And Daihatsu Screwed Up So So So So Badly – The Autopian
Well, they thought it was wise at the time. Daihatsu only sold about 50,000 cars in the US total, over 4 years, when Bombardier’s projections had called for shipping 112,000 of them south of the border per year. Maybe they realized their sales were never going to be strong enough to justify setting up the new factory in Canada and opted to scale their investment to better match prospects, I mean, the fact that they only lost $12 million on their North American operation probably does show they made a good choice, would definitely have lost way more than that tying up with Bombardier and then backing out.
Yugo America burned through a lot more money than that, Bricklin sold the company for $85 million, and they owed $24 million to creditors at the time of their first bankruptcy filing
I had a friend who moved to the States from Japan, and bought a Daihatsu Charade, because he’d owned one in Japan (AND he got a screaming deal since on one else wanted one). I got to ride in it quite often and it was a very nice LITTLE car.
As I understand things Daihatsu had a niche in Japan – a nicely appointed and high quality small car. They thought that they could fill that niche in the U,S, too…. except that niche doesn’t exist here.
Small cars here are cheap strippers. If you can afford a nicer car, you buy a bigger car.
“If you can afford a nicer car, you buy a bigger car.’
Which is a shame, at least for this small car lover.
You must be the only other guy who actually bought a Daihatsu Charade….
Technically speaking I took a Bombardier car to work this morning. It was a Bombardier BiLevel commuter train passenger car.
They got spun off and sold to Alstom https://www.reuters.com/article/world/europe/alstom-completes-bombardier-rail-purchase-for-55-billion-euros-idUSKBN29Y1K5/
This one was at least 20 years old.
As a Canadian who happened to live in Quebec all of my life(all 45 years so far)
I have never heard of this car.
I didn’t know Quebec made tried making their own Quebec special.
It’s ugly enough that it looks french
Replace “since” with “until” and I’ve had cars like that, too.
I recall this saga. Even then many people didn’t expect that sled to fly. There were plenty of vehicles in this price range (some even good) from mainstream manufacturers available. While Bombardier has an excellent engineering reputation, the business has been run for too long on emotional pet projects or nationalistic manufacturing promises. Too easy to do with the amount of subsidies they have been able to vacuum up over the years.
Yeah, this doesn’t seem like an unusually cheap car for the time, Skoda and Lada both had models priced under $5,000 in Canada in the mid ’80s, the Hyundai Pony was $5800.
The Pony was also a local fiasco in Québec, as they built a factory in Bromont (with government subsidies of course) only to shut it down a couple years later
Any particular reason the “Bon Marche” graphic atop the article has the flag of France instead of Canada or Quebec’s provincial flag?
It’s got to be the AI. Oh, I see it’s been changed. LOL
Our graphics guy might have gotten his Frances and Canadas confused! It’s fixed now. 🙂
Tiny people need cars too!
Is a $5000 credit limit significant in Canada or something?
I’m a Canadian, nothing special about that number that I’m aware of.
My guess would be that there is an “average” before “Canadian” in the thinking from that time? I don’t know, thats just what seems to fit?
I could not find any further explanation for the price. Keep in mind that this was also the mid-1980s, so who else knows what other factors were at play.
I think there was nothing special about the $5000 other than a target price. The credit card thing was probably part gimmick and partly away to avoid setting up a customer financing arrangement.
Yeah, $5k would have put it more or less tied as one of the cheapest new cars available, so it makes sense that was the target, couldn’t have really pitched it as a true people’s car if it wasn’t at least comparable to the other cheap cars already on sale.
Then, somebody probably realized, hey, a lot of people have credit cards with $5k spending limits, let’s point out that they could buy our car with that, avoid the need for normal car financing (which, for certain buyers, might have been an attractive necessity)
I ….just… I mean….I, I, gulp: credit card interest rates for a CAR? Yeah – that’s gotta be an advertising gimmick. The people who are buying cars that cheap at Canadian Tire either don’t have credit cards or would start missing payments the month after they got the keys.
With a loan of $4500 ($500 down) at 20% you would pay the car off in 36 months paying $170 per month pay $1485 in total interest (so 1/3 of the borrowed amount).
This sounds GREAT until you factor in the inflation… that $170 per month is now the equivalent of $520 a month…
I can’t imagine making a single $5000 credit card purchase. Maybe that’s just me.. Also – it is crazy the amount of credit you can get nowadays! Rule of thumb is to keep your credit utilization under 30%. Even 30% would be insane to carry month-to-month for me, but too many people do it!
Points man! If I’m planning to pay cash anyway and the vendor accepts credit card, I’ll run it through the card and then pay it off.
Same here. I’ve gotten several new laptops on points and I don’t carry a balance, so they were actually free. Why pay cash when I could get points? Of course, talking Canada in the ’80s, IDK what was going on back then.
Probably minor league hockey tickets. Saskatoon Blades anyone? Those leagues were the best (and wildest) hockey in Western Canada, per my father.
I have actually purchased 2 vehicles with my credit card. One was less than that $5k and the other more. It was at my state’s auction and at that point in time they didn’t charge a credit card processing fee and would take them up to $10k on CCs. I actually won them both the same day and that with my current balance exceeded the card’s limit. Since I had a few days to pick them up I went down one day did the deal, made a transfer from my savings account and went back the next day for the other one. I then paid off the card at the usual payment time. Otherwise I’d would have had to do a wire transfer which would have been much more of a pain.
Insurance on the purchase. We put anything with a subcontractor that requires a deposit on the credit card, if they don’t deliver we can go charge back.
Also, points.
Also, flying almost anywhere outside of Australia with a family is hitting $5k.
Also offset mortgage account and keeping the money in that account for as long as possible.
Lasik in 1996. $4800 on AMEX. One of my best choices ever.
Maybe that was a common or average limit?
I’m thinking most people wouldn’t have had that high of a credit limit in the late 80’s. If you had one with that high of a limit you would probably be able to afford a real car and a car loan at a much lower than credit card interest rates.