Imagine buying a car within the last year and seeing its value diminish from over $75,500 to under $14,000. In most cases, one would have to stack unbelievable mileage on a car in that time or have it involved in an accident that insurance deems a total loss. Of course, that same scenario is what several Fisker Ocean owners are facing despite no damage and normal mileage on their electric SVUs.
I’m not a Fisker owner but I do enjoy perusing the Fisker Ocean Owners Facebook group and it’s revealed the state of ownership these days. To put it simply, things aren’t great. Just a couple of days ago, one owner, Larry, told the group that Carmax quoted him just $13,500 for his Ocean with only 13,000 miles on the odometer. That’s an 82 percent drop in value in just over 12 months.
Many of the owners on this forum and others are passionate about the brand. They’re working together to help one another fix issues and coordinate repairs now that the automaker is in bankruptcy proceedings. Despite that camaraderie, loyalty to the brand and the mission is understandably waning.
Several commenters on Larry’s post basically tell him to cut his losses and move on. “Take it,” says one. “Tomorrow it will be less,” says another. “Take it while they give you something,” says yet one more. Others commented about their personal experience in and out of the ownership period. “I traded mine in for $20k at a Lexus dealer a month ago and I just saw my Ocean still at the dealer,” said one person.
Another individual claims that they paid a deposit, waited a year for their build slot, and then managed to back out just as bad news about the company’s financials was coming out. Notably, at least two other owners say they’ve also received similarly low offers recently. One had the same $13,500 offer from Carmax while one more managed to sell at $24,000 before the bankruptcy news came out.
We’ve reached out to several of these owners for more information on their experiences. It’s worth mentioning that the last remaining new Ocean models traded hands privately for about $14,000 so in that light, $13,500 for one with miles on it doesn’t sound so terrible. Perspective is everything.
All of this points to a frustrating truth regarding startup automakers like Fisker. Several factors led to its bankruptcy and the dramatic drop in values but those factors aren’t all exclusive to Fisker. Investing heavily in startup companies of any name is potentially risky. For existing Fisker owners, the future is tough to navigate, just like the literal ocean.
Images: Fisker
Top graphic: Google Earth, Fisker
and I thought my Grand Cherokee 4XE depreciated fast!
I dunno.
I’d be tempted to commit insurance fraud……maybe drive my 85% depreciated vehicle into a bridge abutment fast enough to total it and slow enough not to get hurt.
20 mph oughta do it.
How did people end up even buying these? I follow automotive media really closely and I barely even know they were for sale. Who has $75,000 to drop on vaporware?
If these cars are fairly new, what’s the harm of keeping them and driving them. If you get 2 years out of it, it would be more valuable than the offer from CarMax??
I read somewhere that they are so software dependent that once the Fisker servers shut down they won’t be able to be serviced at all.
If you bought 2 of these for $13k each, drove one and used the other for parts, you’d be spending $26k on a car that might be a pretty nice/luxurious ride for that price point, and you’d have at least a little piece of mind for future fixes..
Doesn’t really help with the software bugs, though
So, not exactly cool to share names from a private Fb group. I’d edit to anonymize those.
There’s nothing private on Facebook.
“Several commenters on Larry’s post basically tell him to cut his losses and move on. “Take it,” says one. “Tomorrow it will be less,” says another. “
If I was a Fisker owner, I would just keep driving it. Just because the company goes bankrupt doesn’t mean I can’t drive it anymore.
Oh sure, parts/service might become a pain in the ass. And I would discontinue the collision coverage IF I want to avoid the insurance to write the vehicle off over a minor issue like a scratch or a small dent.
I’d hang onto it regardless as it now will become a rare/novel curiosity in the future.
The problem is that is isn’t cool like a Studebaker. It’s orphaned, like a Palm Pre. Any number of unfixable software failures could show up to make this thing a literal 3 ton brick.
Palm Pre! Great phone, great OS, but without the backing of a company like Apple or Google, doomed.
The OS still exists… it’s now called “WebOS” and it’s owned by LG. I have a smart TV with that OS built in.
“The problem is that is isn’t cool like a Studebaker.”
Studebakers were NOT cool back in the 1950s or 1960s either. Even the Avanti was just looked at as a new body on the same old Lark chassis… which is what it was.
They only became cool after Newman and Altman turned the Avanti into a luxury/performance vehicle and sold them in limited numbers… which upped their perceived novelty over time.
And even then, it took over a decade before Studebakers started to be viewed as cool.
I suspect people will find a way to fix and support the Oceans. In a worst case, you could substitute parts used in other BEV conversions to replace anything that is propietary.
I saw my first Ocean a couple weeks ago (QC) and I picked up a lil chat with the guy in the Costco lot, basically I took a picture of it and told him it was the first I saw, but also possibly the last. Thanks to The Autopian, I probably knew more about his car than he did. This was after the buyback deal from the lease company that also bought the code. I felt like a bearer of bad news, but didn’t want to crush his hopes. When I asked him if he had any bugs or issues, he was like yeah, the infotainment is glitchy and freezes but I’m supposed to get an update soon… I was like.. yeah, umm, good luck..
As Sekim noted, with software being a central component (unlike said Studebaker), I wouldn’t bet on it being a functional and reliable vehicle for more than a few moons. I guess that’s the price to pay for being an early (brand) adopter.
This seems like a great candidate to donate to your local community college so they can use it in their auto shop. Maybe even use the battery and controller to put in an old Ice vehicle
If the main issue is with coding (and it’s protected intellectual property/ not available), I’m not sure option 1 would be that feasible. Option 2 however, Battery swapping to replace a dead ice, could indeed be a good project, but also one that could be very useful to learn on.
At this point, you might as well just drive it until it dies, then charge people $10 to smash it with a sledgehammer.
Drive it until it dies… but when it does die, it’s still worth a good amount of money in scrap.
But it wouldn’t make sense to do that.
It would be far more value for the parts that could be used to keep other Fiskers running.
The battery alone would still be worth a lot. The motors would also be worth a lot. Same deal for all the miscellaneous interior and exterior parts.
So if you had one and it died, the absolute last thing you should do is smash it up.
After all, did people smash up their Tuckers just because the company went out of business? And take a look at the value of those Tuckers now…
But you’d be able to have fun AND still scrap it for the battery. You’d be doubling your money essentially.
And then kicking yourself if it ever becomes collectible and the values shoot up. Or realizing you could have made way more money by selling the parts that you allowed to have smashed.
I give it 0% chance of that happening.
Pick a random entry on this list and ask yourself how much of an enthusiast scene there is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States
Something tells me these Fiskers won’t be drivable even 15 years from now, nevermind 75 like the Tuckers.
They’ll be drivable… but they’ll become a rare novelty in the same way the Coda is a rare novelty. And there will be people who keep them running just like Robert Dunn has kept his Coda running.
Of course he also has a reliable daily driver.
But Tuckers are repairable by any village smithy – once the brain implodes on a Fisker it will be worthless. And they will all be worthless soon, unless American Lease (the rideshare car provider) figures out how to keep them running (at least until they’re too old to be Ubered any longer).
“But Tuckers are repairable by any village smithy”
Tuckers absolutely are NOT repairable by the local shop down the street.
Do you seriously think most shops are can/will service an air-cooled Franklin O-335 that was heavily modified and converted to liquid cooling?
And do you seriously think most shops these days are set up to service FWD Cord 810/812 transmissions that were modified for Rear-engine/RWD use?
No way.
Everything is serviceable… but not by the local shop down the street.
For rare, old or orphaned vehicles like the the Tucker, you’re gonna go to a restoration specialist like this place:
https://www.guildclassiccars.com/
When I had my 2000 Saab 9-3 turbo, I took it to a local Saab/Swedish car specialist
And for BEVs like the Fisker Ocean along with lots of earlier/orphaned BEVs, you’re going to a shop that specializes in BEVs and BEV conversions.
I recall reading about a shop that worked on rare BEVs like the Coda and a lot of early compliance BEVs.
Or you could be like Robert Dunn and learn how to fix/service it yourself.
Everything is fixable if you spend enough time and money on it. Even the oldest computers can be fixed. Circuit boards can be repaired and/or recreated.
The only thing you won’t do is have a Fisker Ocean as your primary vehicle.
In autotopia, all these electric cars are built open source and their brains are opensource and live on a tablet (Ipad/Galaxy, don’t care which)
Then if they go belly up you can still enjoy them if you realllly like tinkering
Hyperbole aside, isn’t there a point where it is worth something? It is still an electric CUV that goes down the road. Yes, support is going to get rough, but hence the low price. I might take the gamble at an almost new one for $12k. Even if, at the end of the battery life it will probably be essentially fully worthless. My gas savings might make the thing essentially free to drive for a few years.
Until one single terminal gets corrosion somewhere and you have no dealer tools to diagnose it and no shop will take it. $14,000 buys a lot of gas.
All I can think about now is the sucker who spends $15k on this thing at Carmax thinking they are getting a deal. Caveat emptor I guess, a quick Google search would tell you Fisker is a zombie company, but I also know most consumers barely do any research. One of these will be cheap, basically brand new, and have lots of bells and whistles on it. Someone will fall for it.
CarMax doesn’t sell Fiskers on their front lot. These would go right to their wholesale auctions where other dealers would be bidding on them.
Yeah, no way Carmax is going to put that on a lot and let someone buy it and the Carmax warranty.
Rich should LS swap one if those.
Never, and I repeat, NEVER buy the first model year of any car, and especially the first model of a new company!
I hope fiascos like this force the market to offer a modicum of standardisation, because it is absurd that all these EVs are proprietary hodge podges totally at mercy of their manufacturers. They don’t even have to go bankrupt, if they simply stop supporting the cars after the mandatory period, they’re essentially rolling bricks.
Suddenly the days of sealed beams make a lot more sense!
I think you just described VAG, though, even if you remove “EV” from your statement.
Oh boy, is it that bad? The last VW I ever drove was a type 2, good bless that box on wheels.
Yes. They even require special tools (ballast packs) to do alignments, which most shops don’t have.
Can you expand on that? (VAG)
A few days ago the wife and I went to the store and there was one in a satin blue right near us. The wife asked what it was and I said it was a black hole for money.
Last May, my back was against a wall and I needed a used car fast. I spent $11k on a 10 year old Hyundai. Current trade-in is maybe $3k on a good day.
I was feeling lousy about that until I read this story. I feel better now, thanks.
And your Hyundai might well still be drivable 10-15 years from now. I doubt the Fisker will.
Even at free, not sure I’d want one. You still have to insure it and stupid stuff is bound to go wrong and all the controllers and software are pretty much going to be abandonware soon enough. So joy ride it for a while I guess.
Also, keep in mind, one was totalled due to a bent door hinge (which I’m pretty sure a friend of mine could have fixed with a blowtorch and vice grips for the price of a 12 pack, but regardless)
A 12-pack is more expensive than the replacement value of a Fisker.
Insurance company 1: Autopians 0
Drive it in areas where lots of collisions happen. One big dent and it gets totaled.
Yeah but you’d want to make darn sure you had GAP coverage.
One cracked windshield will probably total it
If EVs were built like they should be and not the POS that they give us, it wouldn’t matter that much that these were being orphaned (except for crash damage) as it would be pretty simple to change out the drive components that should last a while with minimal maintenance, but instead, it’s all controlled by proprietary, integrated, glitchy software, so these are brand new and already a gamble as to how long before they’re paperweights.
Exactly, one touchscreen or one ECU can cripple your whole car.
I would trust a Toecutter EV that could be repaired with off the shelf parts.
This speaks for all newer vehicles including ICE and hybrids. I expect the anticipated lifespan of most newer stuff will drop to something similar to a cell phone or laptop. I’m going to start hoarding older cars and just try to keep them running. Wait?
ICE is still a little better in this regard as the mechanical parts are still mechanical and I’d argue that in order to meet emission standards and ever-increasing expectations of power and efficiency from different configurations requires this kind of software would be more understandable, but yeah, it’s pretty bad. My problem is more that EVs shouldn’t be like this as, for the most part, motors are motors, controllers are controllers, and batteries, etc. There could be a common industry software used and there’s no need for any of these cars to have all this BS run through a central touchscreen of limited lifespan. It all goes back to the problem of the infinite growth fallacy that Capitalism is built on. We could build things to last, but nobody would buy them often enough for these OEMs to keep growing and keep parasite investors happy and what would drive the push for better products (or, more often at this point, “better”)? It was great for a while, but now we’re facing the true costs of this kind of economy and, as this coincides with the new rise of EVs, now would be the perfect time to build things that last and there’s a huge market to convert over to EVs, so at least for a little while longer, they’d still get their growth. At this point, it’s thoroughly obvious that nobody who can will do anything to stop it, so I’m just hoping humanity collapses before taking all the other—better—creatures with it. We’ve taken enough out already. Maybe in a few million years, another truly smart creature could evolve to take our place from some lineage that isn’t disgusting, filthy primates and colonize the galaxy not because they destroyed their home, but because they want to create more homes. Xenarthrans have my vote.
I think you’re raising a genuinely good point here. Been talking about it a lot lately with my buddies and my uncle, us gear heads—time to start hoarding the good old stuff that we *know* we can keep in operable condition for a long while. Those legendary, bulletproof 90s Hondas and Toyotas—Chevy C/K trucks—PowerStroke 7.3s and Cummins 12Vs—Jeep 4.0Ls, VW TDIs, etc.
By this point all of these vehicles are super well understood, we know their design flaws and weaknesses. We know how to diagnose and repair them readily, how to get them to 500,000 or even 1M miles and beyond.
Most of the stuff they’re building now—as complex and software-dependent as they are, are we really confident they can be kept alive? What if the manufacturer doesn’t have microchips to spare and won’t make the parts? Can we redneck engineer or jerry rig such things to work again?
I gotta start taking care of my old jalopies. Can’t stand the thought of a world without ‘96 Civics.
Re: ’96 civics
You mustn’t live in the rust belt!
Computers aren’t Dark Space Magic. Once enthusiast interest reaches critical mass, there will be people reverse engineering the protocols and making github repos for software and hardware. There is really isn’t a need for it yet; the first nerd-popular mass-market electric is a Tesla, and there’s still enough stuff available that it’s easier to drop OEM stuff in rather than hack in aftermarket functionality.
In the end it’s probably going to be easier to keep an orphaned electric alive than an orphaned ICE, assuming there’s enough of a community. A circuit board is a circuit board, as long as the inputs take the same inputs and the outputs make the same outputs as the original, it doesn’t matter if it’s powered by the same bespoke MCU the OEM used or an arudino you flashed yourself.
I’m a computer engineer and I still think they’re dark space magic, haha. I can say from experience that reverse-engineering an ECU or body control module or any of X other chips on a CAN-bus is *not* a simple task (I was never successful with it). It can be a massive effort under the best circumstances, and replicating the operation of an OEM chip to the level of quality one would want in an automotive system–even greater effort.
Well, I think the problem here is that you’re approaching it from the ‘how do I replicate an OEM-quality system?’ angle. Try to think of it from the ‘how do I get this hooptie I bought for $3.50 and a pack of gum back on the road’ perspective, first. This is the new garage mechanic territory, after all. Sadly I don’t think Fisker will be the one to benefit from it; there’s too few around.. Still, cars with solid hardware being sold for pennies on the dollar because the software is cack is going to the impetus for progress.
It seems like an aftermarket ECU is often the go-to for brining a fuel-injected car back to life. (When I was a wee childe in Ye Olden Days, the greybeards said that such things would never come to be, and so all ‘electronic trash’ cars would be dead before their fifteenth winter.) There’s already a couple of companies that make drop-in programmable replacements for some Tesla components. It’s easy to imagine that the the future is going to be a process of pulling out everything that’s not a standard component and plugging it into some open source or aftermarket electronics that replace all the undocumented OEM voodoo. Re-use the existing wiring harness as much as possible, otherwise…
I also like to think that the internet is still alive under the spam and the noise; I’ve seen several retro hardware communities overcome obstacles of obscurity when a niche youtuber picks up on it and suddenly ‘Well, we can’t do anything because we don’t have someone that understands reverse-notation COBOL assembly, much less has the hardware to flash it’ becomes ‘Oh the guy that originally built the thing is in the comments…’
This whole fiasco was such an embarrassment. Henrik and his wife should face serious consequences because they almost assuredly broke the law many times over but they never will. Just remember, when they pop up again in 7 or 8 years with some gorgeous allegedly environmentally friendly car run, do not walk, to the nearest exit.
Almost all of these EV startups are scams. I’m not going to say that the people that bought these stupid ass things deserve what they’re going through, because they don’t. They got conned by an adept conman and many of them are so underwater it will take them years to dig themselves out. But also, it’s best to understand the risks when you buy a product like this and I don’t think very many folks fully understood them with the Ocean.
If you’re one of those people that absolutely has to have an EV then lease one from an established manufacturer. The market is way too volatile to commit to owning ones of these damn things…hell Hyundai dealerships are currently offering $20,000 off EV6 GTs and I’m going to think long and hard about picking up an Ioniq 5 N when it’s worth $30,000 in a year. But DO NOT buy them. Chucking your money in a deep fryer is as good of an idea if not better.
Anyway, when these are 4 figure cars in the next few months they’ll become a mighty tempting gamble because they do look great and offer competitive range and performance…and if we have any youths on this site (doubtful lol) who haven’t picked a career yet I have a feeling that being able to service all the orphan EVs is going to be a very lucrative business for a long time.
I agree with you about Mr. Fisker. I would say he’s a modern day Malcom Bricklin, but he’s still alive, and probably also cooking up another scam. He definitely should have seen jail time as well.
Except Bricklin did manage to sell like 160,000 cars in the US, across all his ventures. Henrik Fisker’s total is more like 13,000, maybe? And he raised (and lost) billions more
Oh, Bricklin has had plenty of other scams. He fucked over a LOT of people.
Aside from automotive, I think it was mostly Handyman America and FasTrack
If you want to learn more about Bricklin, I recommend the book “The Yugo: The rise and fall of the worst car in history.” By Jason Vuic. It’s not at all a hit piece on the Yugo, as the title suggests, but rather defends the Yugo while really laying out what an extensive scammer Bricklin is. He scammed countless people, not to mention the Canadian government, out of millions.
I’ve read it, pretty sure it’s on the shelf next to my desk at home
But all his schemes are pretty lightweight compared to what Fisker has managed. Fisker Automotive was funded with $1.5 billion ($529 million of it from the federal government), which inflation adjusts to $2.1 billion today. The company’s assets were sold off for $149 million and it delivered only 2,000 cars to customers.
Fisker Inc also raised over $1.1 billion, nearly half of it through their IPO, and is currently liquidating after delivering less than 5,000 cars to customers.
Yugo America was funded with $30 million (ca $86 million inflation adjusted) and sold 141,000 cars.
Bricklin Motor Company lost $25 million ($138 million today) and sold 3,000 cars.
All of Malcolm Bricklin’s other schemes, Handyman America, Bricklin Associates, Subaru of America, FasTrack, International Automobile Imports, Global Motors, Zastava Motor Works, and the different forms of Visionary Vehicles, were all a lot smaller than those two.
As said, Henrik Fisker is far more egregious in terms of the number of people ripped off and the amount of money lost. Bricklin arguably had far more customers who considered themselves satisfied with his products, also (hell, if only 10% were satisfied, that’s still more cars than Fisker has ever sold throughout all of his various companies)
7 or 8 years? I don’t think it will take that long. Hell, all Fisker has to do is declare that he’s creating an “AI” company, and he’ll probably end up with at least a 2 or 3 billion valuation.
Followed one exiting a freeway yesterday and couldn’t figure out what it was. Finally got close enough to read Ocean and remembered that was the Fisker model. Looked like a pretty cool vehicle, in what is the hottest segment. Too bad they couldn’t make a go of it.
Same here. I got behind one a lane over and couldn’t figure it out until I saw the badge. The back end esp is very scifi looking; too bad the whole enterprise is such a con.
Funny, I also saw one on the freeway yesterday. That’ll probably be the only time I see one in the wild.
Fisker was always a risky gamble. Smart money is on the Aptera and always will be.
I put all my money on the Dale.
No, no, B&N Plastics is the winner
That episode of Unsolved Mysteries was great.
“The Lady and the Dale” is well worth watching.
Waiting on my Elio
How are the internals on these? Are the batteries and motors good for other projects? Seems like it might be a cheap “parts bin” for other projects.
So, I spoke to a few owners for Cars.com’s “what to do when your car’s brand dies” guide recently, and the gist that I got was that it was a pretty solid, well-built car, but the software was gaaaaaaarbage. Just not fully baked.
I haven’t gotten time in one myself, but it’s built by Magna, who’s done a lot of contract work building everything from Supras to G-wagens. So, I can believe that its components and build quality are at least pretty good.
That software, though — oof. I really hope things work out for the owners’ association in terms of getting access to a stable software build and a way to keep their cars on the road after the company completely goes kaput.
I missed a word in the headline and initially thought CarMax was offering $13,500 Fisker Oceans. Which isn’t cheap enough to make buying one a good choice, but it’s cheap enough to consider one if you have the software and/or electrical skills to make it (or parts of it) work for you.
If they buy enough maybe they will start selling them with MaxCare, which could make it worthwhile.
What happens when MaxCare can’t source a part for your barely produced EV?
They probably pay for a rental for a bit, cut you a check, and start reconsidering their choice to offer the coverage.
That’d be nice, but I really expect that they’ve got actuarial tables and such that will keep them from offering it. They have to turn a profit.
But, hey, if they decide that the risk is worth it, that could be a reasonable investment.
CarMax wouldn’t put these on their front lot, though. For better or for worse, they have the knowledge not to sell certain cars on their retail side, just through wholesale auctions. They’ve only been selling Teslas on the front lot for a few years, after all.
Yeah, I’m not expecting it to happen, either.