Who’d have thought that after all the hype battery electric vehicles have generated over the past decade, hybrids would be dominating the current news cycle? It turns out that adding a little electric assistance to normal cars can work out to be a whole lot cheaper than building dedicated EVs, yet still cut carbon emissions.
At the same time, views on the future of hybrids are divided. Some automakers believe partial electrification is here to stay, while others are of the opinion that it’s battery power or bust. Ford seems to be in the former camp and GM the latter.
Plus, insight into the midsize sedan’s decline, action over allegations of child labor at a Hyundai supplier, and Renault partnering with a Chinese juggernaut on hybrid powertrain development. It’s all right here on The Morning Dump.
Ford and GM Have Different Perspectives On The Future Of Hybrids
Neither Ford nor General Motors are strangers to electrification, but it seems like the automakers’ long-term plans for partial electrification are set to diverge. The Detroit Free Press reports that the two automakers have different views on hybrids, with Ford seeing the technology as more than just temporary.
“We should stop talking about it as transitional technology,” Farley said of hybrids at the Bernstein Annual Strategic Decisions Conference. “Many of our hybrids in the U.S. are now more profitable than their non-hybrid equivalent,” Farley added.
Plug-in hybrids, which include a small battery that can be used for shorter distances, may not be relevant in a few years, Farley said. However, extended-range hybrids are an important technology for the industry’s future, he said.
Farley appears to be talking about extended-range electric vehicles, like David’s i3s REX or the incoming Ram 1500 Ramcharger with its big battery pack and Pentastar V6 generator. Vehicles where the combustion engine doesn’t drive the wheels, but instead backs up the battery pack for longer trips and more energy-intensive use.
At the same time, although General Motors will be bringing plug-in hybrids back to its North American lineup, CEO Mary Barra still seems to see hybrids as transitional technology, with the Detroit Free Press noting:
Barra said the Detroit automaker will have plug-in hybrids starting in 2027, in response to steeper regulatory requirements, but electric vehicles are where GM sees the market heading.
“It’s not the end game because it’s not zero emission,” Barra said of hybrids at the same conference. “We’re trying to be very smart about how we do that and how we deploy capital there,” she added.
Here’s the thing: In some segments, plug-in hybrids and extended-range electric vehicles will essentially need to be long-term solutions. Battery electric vehicles are simply too efficient to get decent range while towing, and without a breakthrough in battery technology, some form of combustion assistance simply makes sense for people who use their trucks as trucks.
It’s also worth noting that human beings are bold and optimistic, eager to latch onto extreme goals without a guaranteed plan of how to get there. Proposed 2035 bans on new combustion-powered cars are only a decade away, and while we’ll certainly make progress with infrastructure and BEV affordability in the next 10 years, whether or not we make enough progress is yet to be seen. There’s a chance either of these strategies could succeed in the long run, so let’s set a reminder in our calendars to check back in 2035 and see how things played out.
And Then There Were Five
In 2010, American customers could choose between 20 different midsize sedan nameplates. Next year, that number will fall to five as the Subaru Legacy and Chevrolet Malibu bow out of the market, and while there’s a chance the remaining players will scoop up newly available market share, it’s no guarantee. As Automotive News reports:
The Automotive News Research & Data Center has tracked U.S. sales of every midsize sedan nameplate since 2009. As recently as 2012, midsize sedans commanded 16.7 percent of the U.S. market, or 2,424,213 vehicles. In 2023, share fell to 5.7 percent, or 884,949.
While 2023’s total midsize sedan sales are up slightly over 2022’s figures, market share is still down as crossovers continue to dominate everything. Besides, this has been a long time coming. Midsize sedan sales fell below 2009 numbers in 2018, and that should’ve been a sign considering how 2009 wasn’t the greatest year for car sales. America was still reeling from the Great Recession, and mainstream customers were tightening their belts rather than splashing out on new vehicles. In fact, 2009 saw the fewest new light vehicle sales since 1982, a mere 10.4 million in America.
Really, the decline of midsize sedans makes sense. Crossovers are incredibly convenient, get better fuel economy than ever, and have proven themselves more effective as family transportation. Raising kids sometimes involves transporting bulky stuff that just wouldn’t fit in a sedan, and there’s undeniable appeal in having one vehicle to do it all.
The Feds Are Suing Hyundai Over Those Child Labor Allegations
Remember how Reuters reported in 2022 that a Hyundai supplier in Alabama was using child labor? Well, it seems like something’s finally happening on that front. Earlier this week, Reuters reported that the Department of Labor is taking Hyundai to court over allegations of child labor usage at a stamping supplier for the automaker’s Alabama plant.
The Labor Department filing named three companies as defendants for employing a 13-year-old child: Hyundai Motor Manufacturing Alabama LLC; SMART Alabama LLC, an auto parts company; and Best Practice Service LLC, a staffing firm.
The Department’s Wage and Hour Division found the child had worked up to 60 hours per week on a SMART assembly line operating machines that formed sheet metal into auto parts.
Needless to say, children shouldn’t be working in sheet metal stamping plants, and since SMART was a Hyundai subsidiary while this was allegedly going on, it makes sense that the automaker is named in the suit. While legal action of this sort usually ends in a settlement, let’s see how this one plays out.
Renault Teams Up With Geely For Hybrids
The next few years will foster some interesting alliances between automakers, and here’s one people weren’t expecting: Renault is teaming up with Geely to build hybrid powertrains. You know, the Chinese firm that owns Volvo and Lotus. As Reuters reports:
“A combination of various powertrain technologies is necessary … to achieve a successful decarbonization in a world where more than half of vehicles produced are expected to still rely on combustion engines by 2040,” Renault and Geely said in a joint statement.
The venture, dubbed HORSE Powertrain, will be headquartered in London and will supply both the groups’ brands as well as third-party manufacturers.
Hang on — doesn’t the Renault Nissan Mitsubishi Alliance include at least two interesting hybrid systems? Well, yes, but the alliance doesn’t quite seem to work like that. Although some level of sharing is in effect, pride has always been a divisive part of this existing partnership. Will any of these new powertrains make it to America under the hoods of Nissans? That’s yet to be seen, but don’t count it out just yet.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Fred Again… just dropped a new track with Anderson .Paak and CHIKA today, and yep, he’s done it again. Just a wonderfully vibey track perfect for dropping the top and savoring some warm weather. Funnily enough, I’ve ended up with last-minute evening plans involving Nakai-san of RWB fame and Patois, so at some point later today, I’ll be firing up the Boxster and likely putting this on the stereo.
The Big Question
How’s your charging situation at home? Do you already have a convenient NEMA outlet in your garage, are you in an underground car park with no way of charging, or are you somewhere in between?
(Photo credits: Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota, Hyundai, Renault)
Support our mission of championing car culture by becoming an Official Autopian Member.
I rent a ’59-build duplex. There are no exterior plugs of any kind. I have to route an extension cord out the window just to turn on Christmas lights.
I’ve got a townhouse without a garage, while I have two dedicated spaces outside I would have to run a cord ~30 feet through my front yard to do it, crossing the side walk and hoping no one trips over it messes with it or our HOA landscapers don’t damage it. Not impossible but also not ideal
Similar situation, I overnight charge a Pacifica PHEV using the 110v outlet on the front porch and an extension cord for over a year without incident. I attached a 3 foot section those plastic cord covers (the kind you use if running a cord across a room) where it crosses the sidewalk. One of the many surprises post-purchase of the Pacifica is how few really rainy days we have in MD. But after a year and proving out the waterproof-ness of the charger, I don’t even worry about rainy overnights any more. The struggle is real, but manageable, enjoying getting 700+ mile tankfulls and filling up once a month.
I think the biggest thing is the new divide between plug in hybrids and range extended hybrids that we are now talking about more. Everyone has plug in hybrids now it seems, but range extended hybrids have long seemed like the best longer term hybrid solution to me (as the full EV conversion continues along probably slower than initially thought). Just based on GM’s track record through the ages I’d bet on range extended hybrids being a big deal in 5 years and for a while after, since they successfully launched the Volt long before anyone else and built it for a while and then killed it before the tech really caught on….
No charging, no 220v in our garage. With the 4XE I’m charging on 110v, which is adequate to fill the range up overnight. A full ev would required me to run power to the garage. Given the awful electric grid performance here in Houston (just spent a week without power after a storm) I am skeptical I’ll ever feel comfortable going full EV.
“Given the awful electric grid performance here in Houston…”
Because holding the state government and Texas Power accountable for ensuring that basic services are provided without big outages is a step too far?
While I appreciate the snark, and would love to do so, I’m also resigned to the fact that it sucks here and I should move as soon as I find a job that allows me to do so.
I have a 6.8 kilowatt array on my roof. My bill is $8.98 a month (though I am still paying the solar install at $127 a month). Dominion charges me an access fee, and my county charges a tax to add up to that $8.98. My net consumption from Dominion since October of 2020 is 10kwh.
The breaker box is in the garage. 18 inches away from it, I have installed a 220 on a 60 amp breaker. Wife can charge the BMW at 48 amps (or whatever the rate is) in the garage.
So, my situation is fine.
I bought a book a few years ago – The Roads Were Not Built For Cars. A great reminder for a grouchy old engineer that there’s a long period of transition for any new technology.
The kiddos took over our TDIs. I switch with the one I trust when I need to go long distance.
I commute in an MME. Installed a Juicebox 48A myself outside the garage but covered by a good overhang, ten feet from the main box. The old cars and my wife’s car are inside (guess which part is non-negotiable). One caveat – my zip code was not eligible for the federal charger tax credit, check before you count on it.
My wife drives a cute ute but she gets a pass. She often returns late from her medical second shift, long after the roads back to Grumpy Hollow are no longer plowed. She’s up for the next purchase and wants a plug in hybrid. Makes sense for her – drive on excess solar power for her short commute all summer, use the heat and push the snow in the winter without any anxiety, and take off to see friends and family any time she feels like it.
We’re all mostly happy. Kids get awesome MPG and learn stick, I use solar and our delightful Illinois nuclear power for the long commute to save a pound or two of emissions, and my wife’s driving appliance does what it’s supposed to do.
“How’s your charging situation at home? Do you already have a convenient NEMA outlet in your garage”
Yes I do. I have a gas dryer so that 220v outlet is ripe for the taking. Unfortunately its fed by PG&E and their outrageous electrical rates. Even the cheapest overnight rate is $0.33/kWh which translates to about $4.30/gallon of regular and it only goes up from there.
Charging overnight cheaper than local gasoline prices (for now) but not by much and nowhere enough to justify buying an EV over a cheaper gasoline only HEV.
“We should stop talking about it as transitional technology,” Farley said of hybrids at the Bernstein Annual Strategic Decisions Conference. “Many of our hybrids in the U.S. are now more profitable than their non-hybrid equivalent,” Farley added.”
That’s nice for you Mr. Farley but your profitability comes out of our pockets so how about saying something like “lowers our costs so we can pass those savings along to our customers and keep them from buying Chinese cars instead. That also saves us money by not having to buy lobbyists and politicians to keep China out.”
We live in a condo with no charging available whatsoever. We have carports, and a number of us are lobbying to replace them with solar topped carports and chargers, but that won’t be in the budget for years.
I agree with the sentiment that whether the plug-in is a transitional solution or not depends on the segment. My daily driver has never left 150 mile radius of my house in the six years I’ve owned it, so I’d be willing to go full electric the next time I need a new one. However, for my Suburban that gets used hard for road tripping, stuff hauling, outdoor adventures, bad-roading/mild off-roading, and towing, a PHEV would be an ideal solution. Same applies for most pickups, where an owner uses it much of the time for commuting or local work, but occasionally needs to tow or do a road trip.
“Raising kids sometimes involves transporting bulky stuff that just wouldn’t fit in a sedan”
This statement makes me crazy because to this day it has yet to be proven to me. We raised our daughter with no problems from infancy until 10 years old with a Pontiac G6, and have replaced that with a Kia K5 this past March. What do people think parents did in the days before SUVs became ubiquitous?
We looked at a lot of SUVs at the Chicago Auto Show before deciding on a K5. For the price of the K5, there wasn’t any SUV we looked at that legitimately had more room than the K5 does. It’s a big trunk in that thing, and even with the previous G6 we were able to put my daughter’s entire bicycle with training wheels into the trunk without disassembly. Strollers too (strollers are such a limited time of your kid’s life when you look back on it). When we looked behind the second row of any of the smaller SUVs at the show, I was startled at how little was actually back there.
This notion that an SUV has more cargo space than a sedan is a fallacy I’ve been railing against for years. An SUV only has more usable space behind the rear seat if you load it to the rooftop, which people rarely do. Add in the fact that most sedans have fold down rear seats now and they are competitive on space with any smaller SUV.
I’ve driven sedans, wagons, hatchbacks, and SUVs with my kid. And while I personally don’t love the SUV (my wife does), there is no denying that it’s way easier. I love my A4 wagon, but I’m about to have 2 in car seats, and that makes it a real bitch to fold down the rear seat. Add to that the stroller eats up my trunk space. For a slight mpg penalty, her Atlas eats up all the cargo and passengers that get thrown at it. Plus it can tow 5k lbs
You can totally get by with a compact sedan, but it’s just kinda easier not to.
Easier, sure, but “just wouldn’t fit” isn’t the same as “it’s easier to maneuver in a taller opening and I don’t have to lean down to buckle in my kid.”
So much this. My girlfriend went from an Altima to a Venza and was surprised that the additional cargo space felt like less cargo space…because it was certainly less square footage in exchange for more cubic footage. And she uses that square footage a lot more often and a lot more thoroughly than the space above it.
Yes, but it’s not just square ft vs cubic ft, it’s also the opening size. And you do need a big opening size for a stroller (not that you can’t jam one in a sedan trunk). I personally think the wagon is the sweet spot, but in a world where people don’t want wagons and they are ceasing to exist, the CUV/SUV is the next best thing
I also prefer wagons (and liftbacks). But I’m simply agreeing with the fact that SUVs don’t really have more usable cargo space in a way most people use. They certainly have benefits, but how we use trunk space and how it’s measured don’t really line up.
I agree that there are benefits (access, not needing to lean in to buckle up a kid), but the numbers can be misleading.
And this is before you see how much fits in the Honda Fit. Maybe not good for two kids, but unquestionably for one.
“What do people think parents did in the days before SUVs became ubiquitous?”
Threw them into the backseats and didn’t care if they buckled up or not.
And yet we somehow survived.
Most of us anyway. Pretty sure that was in part because the average fertility rate was higher so there were more “spares”.
We had a CRX as a “family car” for a brief stint growing up. The Renault Alliance was down for a while. Us kiddos under the hatch and keep our heads down!
My mom used a TR3 to drive three kids around. Safe? no! Fun? Oh HELLS yes!
Yep, I can remember my dad taking me and 2 friends skiing (more than a hour drive from home) in his TR7.
No space hogging rear facing child seats.
Just an even more space hogging roll bar.
Hear, hear. Most of my school runs as a kid were made in an Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight, cavernous trunk and all for whatever ridiculous project build I had to take to school with me.
Barra kind of sounds like she’s stuck on a sunk cost fallacy, a bit. Both her and Farley seem to be kind of bad at their jobs in two different ways but I think he’s more right here than her.
Where is the coverage of the Toyota engine recall? That’s major news and any other manufacturer would have wall to wall coverage of this.
I think Barra is right, but she is taking a longer view. For better or worse, almost all ICE has to go away if we plan to be able to live on the planet. It’s 126 degrees in India right now.
If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the Kashmir.
I throw my Cummins and firebird on trickle chargers over the winter does that count as charging at home hah
I have a 30 amp outlet in my garage, but it’s there so I can plug in the small camper I park next to it. If I were to get an EV the camper would have to move somewhere else, and the whole reason I designed the garage this way was so I wouldn’t have to park the camper elsewhere.
Which is why my first electrified vehicle was a hybrid. No plugs and 50 mpg is a pretty good step in the right direction until I move somewhere with a bigger garage that I can park all my vehicles in.
A camper 30 amp outlet is almost always 120 volt which wouldn’t help with an EV anyway.
I thought installing a Level 2 charger in my garage would be an expensive and complicated process. Then I learned it was just a 2 pole 50 amp circuit requiring only #6 wire. I have a crawl space with easy routing from the panel to my garage requiring only a single 90 degree conduit bend. Shit, I even have lots of 3/4 emt laying around too. All I need is the breaker, the thhn, and the outlet. I think I could get it done in a single day for about $300 total. Sometimes you get lucky (but mostly not).
Now I just need to get me a nice PHEV. 🙂
If you install an outlet you do need a GFCI breaker. Hardwire and you can use the standard double pole breaker.
No requirement for GFCI as far as I know. Obviously check your local building codes because relying on my knowledge… 🙂
Yep, just a standard two pole breaker like you find for an oven or dryer.
That’s what I thought until the inspector got there and didn’t pass it because it was a standard 2 pole breaker and an outlet.
Was it in a wet location?
No an attached garage. According to the inspector NEC now says all garage outlets must be GFCI.
Thanks for letting me know. I’ll buy a GFCI breaker for sure now when I do the install. I like to be safe and our garage is sort of attached and I guess the NEC now considers them as wet locations.
I actually put GFCIs on every outlet circuit in our house ages ago along with arc faults on many as well.
The specs I found online did not call for GFCI, but I don’t remember where I found them and they are clearly outdated.
A friend of mine leased a Kona EV at the beginning of the year, and were about to get a 240V outlet / charger installed in the garage, but then they realized that a 110V outlet is more than sufficient for them as they only commute to the office 3 days a week, 60 miles round trip, and the day and a half charging more than covers the power used on that trip. As they live in Chicago proper, pretty much every errand you’ll need to run is 5 miles or less which also easily gets covered by the 110V outlet.
Garage already had a welder 240V, but in the 3rd garage stall. Since that stall is full of wood and saws and other assorted junk I added another 240V on a 50 amp in the second stall 2 weeks ago when I bought a Bolt EV. I wanted a PHEV but found nothing I liked as much as the Bolt in my price range. I don’t foresee needing another charger in the garage for a while because my wife Rav4 isn’t going anywhere, but there is a lot of open space in the garage panel to add more if needed.
Just had a solar array installed on my roof this week, and since the electricians were here for that I also had them run a 220v outlet to the garage. Had to pay extra, but figured it would be cheaper now than a second trip in a few years when I eventually get a PHEV (have a HEV Sienna now and a dino-fueled Subaru). Plus this way I’ll claim the 30% tax credit for the full install. Maybe in the meantime I can get an arc welder and teach myself to weld…
Do it. If you want to get into other types of welding I’d recommend Yeswelder, a random brand on Amazon that makes surprisingly high quality stuff. I’ve now got a mig, tig, and plasma cutter of theirs which I honestly like much better than 5 year old miller equivalents that cost 4X as much.
(Also, unless you’re dealing with 1/4″+ thickness metals, you can get by just fine on 110V)
Thanks for this. I’ve been looking to get an inexpensive mig that’s better than the HF stuff. I’ve barely ever managed even one decent bead to date, but welding is so much fun. It’s an extremely satisfying task.
I want solar so damn bad but I don’t think I can afford it.
Shop around! Some suppliers can connect you to a loan company with a monthly payment close to what you’re paying for electricity now. It’ll take a few years to pay off, but in the meantime it’s nice to have.
Also, we don’t own an EV and aren’t thinking about one in the near future, but if you’re looking at solar, and you do want an EV, make sure they know and add a few more panels to the engineering plan.
That sounds well and good but my electricity bill has gone up 30% because of “reasons” according to AEP and I really can’t afford to be paying out another ~$400 a month like that right now. I’ve looked for solar suppliers as well and the couple I found in my small area of Ohio looked very scammy.
Same, plus I rent, so I don’t think it’s an option. It would be nice to have power when our power grid does what it does again.
Texas: It’s like a whole other country! (A third-world one…in a cowboy hat.)
I am renovating a house that I am moving into, which is including moving and upsizing the existing 100amp breaker box. Since I’m already going through all that, I am having the electrician go ahead and include breakers for and wiring for an electrical charger, so it will be easy to install when the time comes. I fully expect to have an electric vehicle in the near future, so, it’s a lot cheaper to do that end of it now. Having the utility service upgraded from 200amp to 400amp (they have to come and do the pole anyway), so, planning to go ahead and do 100 amps for a 19.2kW charger.
Maybe, if we make enough noise, that we’ll get a Voltec powered Element with a CRZ manual transmission.
We went with a Bolt Euv last January when they nice again qualified for the 7500 tax credit. It came with a level 2 barge cable plus GM included up to 1300 for electrical installation of a 220 outlet in our garage. The EUV is a premier trim so it’s loaded with heated ventilated seats, 360 cameras, adaptive cruise, safety Nannie’s, wireless CP/AA and more. Final cost for the brand new car and all the extras was only 25K! Liked it so much we purchased a lower trim Bolt EV with all the safety Nannie’s for final price around 21 K ..best car bargains of 2023. .. so yep, now have a 220 outlet in the garage
BUT… don’t really need it if you have a plug in hybrid with a smaller battery. 120v at 12 amps should be enough to top off a PHEV smaller battery to pick up the expected 30-40 miles of range every night. For a full EV with 200-300 miles range…yep, you’ll want 220 v for a daily driver.
When the US needs an affordable PHEVs with 60 mile all electric range and a small range extender (rotary. Omega-1, liquid piston?). I like the idea of the new ram but wish it was half size like a maverick. I,d be first in line to get one.
“(rotary. Omega-1, liquid piston?)”
Why go so exotic? Adkinson piston engines are about as efficient as it gets.
Extremely good power to weight ratio and possibly much greater efficiency especially if it is paired with a matching generator optimized for a specific (probably high-ish) rpm. The Omega one looks very interesting, but any rotary should make for a great single speed range extender ( super smooth too) . Really wish Mazda would put the rx vision or iconic into production.
Mary Barra is the worst ceo of all time and I have no fucking clue how she has a job. She must have videos of all the board members in compromising positions. She’s fucks up everything she touches.
Where’s the article about Toyota blowing up all their tundras and forcing a recall/stop sale for the last few year models? Can’t wait until it extends to the 24’s as videos of those blowing up are already online.
It’s a Toyota, god forbid it was an American or German brand; I can already hear some statement like ” I’ll never be buying ________ brand in my life”
I don’t currently have a plug in hybrid or EV but the next family vehicle likely will be. We have an extra 220 outlet in the basement near the garage because the previous owners had an extra stove in the laundry room. When we do renos I’ll have the electrician extend that line into the garage so it’ll be ready.
I live in an apartment with street parking only, but a municipal building across the street has one fast-charger and several publicly available slow-chargers. I don’t have an EV/PHEV, but one of my neighbors does, and she regularly charges her Model Y there.
The city/county has a fleet of Chevy Bolts with assigned, dedicated charging spots.
The way my cars are currently parked, there’s no way to park my 500e right up at the garage, so I’m running an extension cord to the OEM 120v charger, which sits on my trailer’s toolbox, and then the cord runs far enough that I can park in front of the trailer to charge it.
It’s not ideal, since it means the cars in the garage can’t get out without moving the 500e, so I eventually want to run power along the side of the driveway, and be able to park it diagonally like all of my other cars so it isn’t blocking anything else in.