Parking by a fire hydrant is stupid. You should never do it, because firefighters need access to water. If you do, they will happily smash through your car to hook up their hoses, and they won’t be sorry. That much is fair. But what happens if you park kinda sorta near a hydrant?
That case recently came to pass in New York earlier this month. As posted to Twitter by FearedBuck, we see a vehicle parked close to a hydrant as a fire crew rolls in. One of the firefighters busies himself with hooking the truck up to the hydrant, and the Honda in the way gets the business. The windows are smashed, the hose is fed through the cabin, and the truck is duly hooked up to the water supply.
The video has spawned a flurry of commentary, with posters taking two sides. Some claim the firefighters were out of pocket, alleging there was no need to smash the vehicle at all. Others stated that fire crews don’t have time to muck about with cars in their way, and that the action was utterly justified. Let’s take a look at the footage—and at the history of this driver—and see what’s what. Stick around for the twist.
someone parked right beside a fire hydrant & got their car window smashed ????????pic.twitter.com/FW2N6bTbdH
— FearBuck (@FearedBuck) July 11, 2024
Fair, or Unfair?
From the drop, let’s get this straight. This Honda is undeniably parked illegally. New York regulations state that vehicles must be more parked more than 15 feet away from a hydrant. It appears the owner may have assumed the bollards by the hydrant marked out the forbidden area, but that’s not the case. You may not park in a 15-foot zone on either side of the hydrant.
However, since the vehicle wasn’t parked right next to the hydrant, that pushed many to question the actions of the crew in the video. Suggestions were that the fire truck could have moved forwards or backwards, and the hose could have been laid in front of or behind the car. Without a full view of the area, though, it’s hard to support this assumption. We don’t know the traffic or road conditions at the time, or what other fire appliances were in the area. But taking a look at the area, it’s tight.
Others suggested the hose could have been passed over the vehicle. To an extent, this may be true. However, it’s probably actually a worse idea for several reasons, if it would be allowed at all. For one, the fire hose is safest sitting on the ground.
Having the hose lofted over a vehicle would present a much higher risk to crews in the area. You can’t have a high-pressure hose just flopping around all over the place, and there’s a chance the crew would get hung up on the hose or even trip over it.
Car's windows getting smashed for parking near water hydrant pic.twitter.com/XaiwR1c5VH
— Visual feast (@visualfeastwang) July 10, 2024
Plus, hanging the hose over the car would maybe cause more damage? Getting a couple of windows replaced isn’t that hard. In contrast, a heavy-duty firehose would likely scuff up or damage a lot of paintwork which would possibly require expensive bodywork to rectify.
The fact is that a fire hose is not like a garden hose you might have at home. It’s a heavy piece of equipment, with a 5-inch hose capable of flowing 2000 gallons of water a minute. These hoses are not excessively long, and you can’t just lay them willy-nilly. A fire truck needs a clear run to the hydrant.
Wait. Say That Again?
It’s easy to be sympathetic to the driver. They’d have returned to their car only to find their windows smashed and the interior full of glass. But hold that thought.
Run the driver’s license plate through a parking violation query with the city of New York. You’ll find something interesting. They’ve racked up a total of $12,078 in parking fines and camera violations in the last three years.
You can see 17 of the fines here, but there are 94 fines in total, with the most recent issued on the 1st of July, 2024. The ticket asserts the vehicle was parked within 1 foot of the hydrant seen in this video. For their trouble, the driver was fined $115.
Incidentally, it’s apparently the 34th time they’ve been ticketed for parking in front of a hydrant. Getting your car smashed once in 34 illegal parks… those aren’t great odds.
One suspects the owner doesn’t plan to pay this one. Just as they’ve ignored paying so many tickets before. Oh, and they’re also apparently partial to speeding in school zones.
It’s easy to say that the firefighter in the video saw a car parked illegally, and saw an opportunity for some cathartic destruction. I wouldn’t call that fair. The city requires people to park away from hydrants for good reason. Emergency crews don’t have time to try and work around illegally parked cars. The Honda should never have been there in the first place. The fact this is apparently a regular pattern of behavior for this driver just seals the deal.
[Ed note: David and I are sitting here and don’t necessarily agree. David thinks it was a touch too far as it didn’t seem like the car was blocking the hydrant. But this is my town. You get 34 fire hydrant tickets you have severely fucked around and you have now found out. – MH]
Image credits: Visual feast and FearBuck via Twitter video screenshot, Google Maps via screenshot, City of New York via screenshot
Finally, something I’m almost qualified to answer.
1st- been on FDNY for 25 years
2nd -Engine Chauffeur (FDNY term for guy who drives the rig)for 10 years
3rd- I was at this job.
So, we have two things going on here
1st and foremost is hooking up to a hydrant. Usually if your first due, it needs to be as fast and efficient as possible, if I was the boss and I came out of a building and saw this, I would lose my mind. As far as operationally, this was a shit show. You could’ve hooked up faster by laying the hose right over the hood and you would’ve been fine, it also would’ve taken half the time. Chauffeur and crew went far out of their way to break the windows. Lets not even talk about a disgruntled owner coming in and fucking with your supply line because you destroyed his car.
2nd is that New York City is full of these assholes who park right on the hydrant. Its an issue and we dont seem to have enough resources to tow cars that deserve this. (Hell, it took two hours to get cars towed that were right in front of the fire building) So do I agree with this owners car getting busted up….no. Am I upset that some firemen got to live out some masturbatory Backdraft fantasy….Once again no.
I work with a former firefighter and he said that getting to smash the windows out of a car was like, THE universal desire of everyone he worked with. Himself included.
Alas, he never got the chance during his tenure.
Seemed like breaking that window took forever and one of those tiny hammers people keep in their cars to smash the window and swim out would have been WAY more efficient. Guessing firefighters don’t keep tiny hammers on their rig.
Couple of reasons it took so long. The first is that the tool he is using is a custodian wrench, which is a specialized tool for opening multiple types of hydrants. Not customarily used for venting car windows. The second is that some passenger cars no longer have normal side windows, they are laminated, just like the front windshield. This makes them a pain in the ass to break open. It doesn’t shatter like they used to, you almost have to either peel them back or punch through.
Indeed this is laminated glass – I was impressed that a Honda would have this. Makes it much easier when the vandals break into your car (that was parked in front of the police station) to steal your sunglasses and ice cream money. The tempered glass breaks into thousands of small pieces that you can never fully get rid of. I guess tempered glass is usually more expensive than laminated glass, so maybe this is a feature for lower priced cars – can you use untempered door glass if you laminate it??
I believe laminated glass is being used on newer cars for NVH reasons.
Thanks for replying 🙂
I feel like an important lesson was learned that day by the car owner, and they serve as a warning for the next asshole who decides their convenience is more important than FDNY putting out a fire. Thanks for everything you do for all of us in NYC.
I’m glad my first thought seems to be the correct one – this took longer to do for no good reason. Hooking the hose up fast should have been the priority.
Once the fire is out, sure. Drag the metal end of the hose across the hood. Maybe there’s an oopsie and it hits the windshield.
There’s no need to be careful of property that shouldn’t be there, but don’t go out of your way and slow down the process to cause damage.
Watching the video it didn’t seem to slow them down at all. As window smasher was hooking up to the hydrant the other fire fighter was still unrolling the rest of the feeder line.
I’m just gonna go ahead and stop thinking about what I think and just agree with the one guy in the room whose credentials and authority on the matter seem unimpeachable. Thanks for your thoughts and for your service. Be safe out there.
Even if we grant that it’s “necessary” to run the hose through the car, wouldn’t it have been more logical to break the windshield and the passenger window to actually get a straight shot instead of breaking both side windows and forcing the hose to turn twice?
If kinking the hose that much through the window is acceptable, then **CLEARLY** it would also have been acceptable to put it anywhere else. You have to go out of your way to decide this was a better solution. I’d fine them both honestly.
I don’t know what the spacing rule is here but folks always park just up (but not in front of) to the hydrant at the corner of my crowded street, I’ve done it too a couple times. Hell, last night I parked there with like 10 feet in front of my vehicle to the hydrant, today when I came out to go to work there was a Honda Rebel in that gap I left to the hydrant. There’s no signage, no painted curb. In any case, I’m sure those FF still have a boner from doing that, it would seem like this is their dream come true to smash a window and run the hose though like they all heard can happen. Its like folks with guns who dream of the scenario where they can finally take their guns out and shoot someone. Used to have a insufferable client like that, if I had to hear one more time how if he won the lottery he would want it delivered to the bank in cash so he and his buddies could come down with ARs under their arms and take the money away…..
I’m on the side of “No they didn’t need to smash it”
The car was not blocking direct access to the hydrant and at worst, they could have just had the hose go over the car.
These particular firefighters were just being assholes.
Unless they looked up the plate and decided this was the time to exact extralegal vengeance, the driver’s (shitty, shitty) record doesn’t have anything to do with smashing two car windows. The extra time it took to smash the damn things and run it through was longer than:
The driver is an absolute jackhole for this and 94 other reasons, no question. That doesn’t mean the fire department gets to go Street Fighter on this thing, either. 96 wrongs don’t make a right.
the thing that caught my attention was FF had to run around front of engine to get wrench to secure hose/hydrant coupling.
the other (pentagonal drive) wrench to open valve had already been placed on top of hydrant.
this represents an opportunity for improvement – bring both wrenches to hydrant same trip to save a few seconds.
ref S.Singo external set-up, SMED & Toyota Production System.
as far as morality, i see no winners here. as Dave Chappel said: “fuck ’em! you know why? cuz fuck ’em!”
I’m sorry, but this was 100% the firefighters wanting to teach someone a lesson. I fully understand the inclination, but in this case, they went out of their way. You can see the pleasure on his face as he’s working his ass off to break the windows. And feeding a hose through a car is nowhere near as easy as throwing a hose over it.
The point isn’t the broken windows, the point is to flood the car. That’s why firefighters do it. Those hoses leak by design in order to resist burning. They are intentionally trying to inflict maximum damage, which again, I understand the desire, but…
Uh, those tickets are for KNE6300 – the plate on the car in the video is LEC6418.
If you type that into the traffic ticket system the first 24 results are for KNE6300, the remainder for the new plate. Based on a 2 year gap in the tickets my guess is that they moved out of state and then returned with a new plate.
KNE6300 is a black 2018 Honda.
LEC6418 is a silver 2019 Honda.
The VINs are different. They are different cars.
Good catch, I didn’t check the tickets themselves. So they have run up a lot of tickets on two cars. My question is how do they renew the plates with tickets? Where I live you have to pay off any fines before your plates get renewed.
Iam absolutely not an expert in this area, but maybe it’s same person multiple cars? In some states you can keep the plate and transfer it to your new car, so maybe something like same guy got 2018 honda KNE6300, bought a new honda and transferred the plate, then switched registration and got the LEC6418 plate and whatever system all kind of links them together?
But who knows(certainly not me, I don’t even know what system you guys are looking at)
Maybe whole new car? Does the system connect the different plates to the same owner?
I don’t know but it seems likely. The province knows all the cars I’ve owned and I’d have to pay off any fines on any of them to renew my licence and registration. I’d guess most jurisdictions are the same.
I wonder if that will cause anyone to re-evaluate their position on the matter. That and the self-identified NYC firefighter who said it was totally unnecessary…
A lot of people got a justice boner for something that was technically permissible but is obviously a straight up dick move.
Should you park near a fire hydrant? No.
Do you deserve to have your car ruined if it could be easily avoided? Also no.
If you go out of your way to ruin someone’s shit and make your work less effective in the process are you an asshole? Yes.
Hear, hear!
There will be no re-evaluation. This has been done before, this has been done and recorded before. Just because I say it was unnecessary doesn’t mean that there are others who believe it was.
I was thinking the twist at the end would be that the car belonged to a fire/police officer. Back when I lived in a condo complex, there was a police officer next door, and I remember his police officer buddy parking his personal car in a fire lane, right in front of a fire hydrant when visiting, because he couldn’t be bothered to park 20 feet across the street in the actual, available parking spaces.
Which is an extra stupid thing to do. Firefighters and cops aren’t the best of buddies, as evidenced by the fairly frequent barfights in my neck of woods.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If you’re going to tempt the fire-axe gods by parking in front of a hydrant, you can’t complain if your car gets trashed (however pointless the trashing was.)
Where I live curbs in front of hydrants are painted red to make sure its a very clear no parking zone. Why doesn’t NYC do this one simple trick too? NIMBYSs?
(Maybe curbside tire spikes are the answer).
DC doesn’t paint theirs either, but ours are a lot of granite/stone square-edged curbing instead of slopped concrete. I’ve always assumed its for aesthetics (but then instead they use a zillion signs to dictate parking rules), but then also it would be another infrastructure maintenance thing they’d probably prioritize over fixing the roads.
NYC doesn’t paint lines on many of their streets. They’re not going to spend the money painting red curbs at thousands of hydrants.
Weird how so many other, poorer, less congested areas manage to do it.
A. Fuck this owner, obviously.
B. I’m extremely doubtful that this is, in fact, the optimal hose routing. You’re basically introducing a pair of sharp turns in order to pass through the windows, and the hose is above the ground at both doors, presenting the tripping hazards Lewin says are a concern. So what is the supposed upside of this? Forget going over the hood, just run the damn hose on the ground in front of the car: you eliminate at least one sharp bend and you keep the hose entirely on the ground.
C. As for “firefighters don’t have time for this”, it sure took the guy some time to smash through two windows. I’d bet a lot of money that you could rerun this scenario and get water flowing faster if you don’t waste time on the car.
You nailed it. In just one photo I can see three kinks in the hose as a result of trying to route it through the window. There is no way this was the “fastest” or “most direct” way to route this hose. It’s waste of time breaking those windows versus just rolling the hose over/around the car, and introduces added risk of someone getting cut on all the broken glass.
And to the authors point about “oh well if they went over the top it *might* have scratched some paint”, that’s garbage to me. I’m pretty sure if given the option of “definitely have both windows broken and car be basically unusable for a while until you replace them and the interior covered in glass” or Option B of “Maybe scuff some paint” I know which one 99% of people are going to pick.
Retired Fire Fighter here, this is justified. On a fire a long time ago the Fire Chief parked a little close to the hydrant, we ended up with a supply line overtop of his car and doing a little scratchy scratchy to his paint. Shit happens and he understood. (At that time, we were all volunteer and the Chief drove his personal vehicle.) If you look closely, the hydrant is skewed towards the car, thus it was in play…
I just signed up with my local FD and wish I did it 20 years ago. What great people.
I get that it’s “justified” and they didn’t technically break any rules. But from your perspective, is breaking two windows and introducing two sharp turns coming into/out of the car really the better/faster option versus just running the hose over the top? Like on just one side of the car I can see a few spots the hose is kinked as a result of the routing.
I’m honestly asking because I am of course not a firefighter but as someone who has used similar hoses for water trucks on construction sites before, my initial reaction is it seemed like they took extra time, took a less than ideal route and went out of their way just to kind of make an example of this guy.
It was an ugly and unsatisfactory hydrant hookup, that I will agree to. The hose needs a little dressing…
I’m guessing that FF’s live for that moment that they can bust 2 windows and thread a hose through a car (and will use any excuse to do so). Then spend the rest of the month telling their buddies about it.
Firefighters have the same mentality as cops. It’s just that they fight fire instead of people.
This is one of those situations where multiple things can be true. Could the firefighters avoided smashing out the windows? Looks like they could have…maybe. But were they also within their rights to do it? Sure were.
Learning that this car is owned by an asshole who doesn’t follow the rules or pay their tickets makes it feel like the rare karmic justice we all pine for.
Justified or not, I’m siding with the firefighters. First time this guy parked wrong or not, I’m siding with the firefighters. some things, there is just no room for messing with.
This is totally justified. This is first responders doing their job, and only the driver who made a very poor decision is to blame. This is coming from someone who has multiple firefighters in my family. They have all done this, and there is no malice there. They’re doing their job as if somebody’s life depends on them.
Yeah. No firefighters in my family, but you got a street full of smoke and the shortest route to the truck is through the car, then that’s where the hose is going, zero hesitation.
I’m going out on a limb and NOT siding with the firefighters. I have NO clue what protocols are, and hold NOTHING against them. But, I feel this could have been dealt with very differently, as I feel this was driven by spite over anything else.
I kind of agree.. I know pictures only tell part of the story, but it kind of looks like the hose is kinked more, and bent more to snake through the windows than it would have had they just laid it on the ground in front of the Honda.
It almost seems like they went out of their way to do it.
Part of me wonders though, if it was intentionally done to trap the car there. The car shouldn’t be there in the first place, but since it is, the next worst thing would be the driver running out, and in a hurried attempt to protect their property they try and move it, potentially running over the house, or a firefighter.
Good point but that car wasn’t getting out anyway. the real issue here is that it took more time to break the windows than just run the hose over/around the car, and the lay of the hose would have been the same or better. So the “they gotta do what they gotta do” argument while generally I find persuasive doesn’t feel valid here. This wasn’t saving time or giving them more water flow, it was taking time to punish the owner for parking there. Whether that’s ok or not is subjective I guess….
With the Honda there or not, the hose had to make an “S” or “Z” shape. The driver should have stopped 6 feet earlier, IMHO, but… protocol. It just felt overly forced to go through the car. And, yeah, less flow?
There has to be a minimum bend radius that hose can/should take, and the driver should take that into account when they stop. I find it hard to believe that a +/-10 feet would have made a difference. BUT, I was not there, so nuts on me. #armchairfirefighter
I realize it’s been 23 years ago, but New Yorkers of a certain age have had a special relationship with their fire department ever since. Anyone complaining about the NYFD actions must not be a New Yorker.
If that’s what the guys felt they needed to do to get the job done – more power to them.
On a personal note – After having lived in SF for 20 years, getting rid of my car was the best move I ever made. I wound up without a car at all for the last 14 years I lived there.
As a volunteer firefighter with a full 2 hours of training and experience under my belt, I am an expert on this matter and can say with conviction that I have no idea what the proper procedure is for a hose of that diameter.
These guys took some extra time at the fire scene to smash the windows for the fun of it and the social meeds, form what’s visible here. That supply hose is flexible–goes around the car easy. The only reason they would ever need to smash a window is if they were trying to use a hard suction (rigid) hose on a hydrant with low pressure. But you know what? Even if they needed the hard suction, it goes to that big “steamer” connection (round capped inlet on the metal panel on the side of the truck)–which would be directly in line with the hydrant if they backed the truck up about a foot, without the car in the way. So whether or not you want to feel sympathy for the car owner, this was super unprofessional on the part of the engine crew unless there’s something we’re not seeing.
In fact, they put a pretty good kink in that hose, cutting their supply, in order to get the hose through the window instead of around the car. Everything here screams “routine fire, not a lot of water needed, plenty of time, let’s have some lolz”
Respectfully disagree. From article you can see the truck almost certainly couldn’t be “backed up about a foot.” Really it would have to be backed up about 15 feet if I’m looking at this correctly, and then it would be blocking sidewalk and likely into the street behind, more dangerous for everyone. And as to extra time – the time it takes to take out those windows is extremely little – probably about 3 seconds for both windows. But opinions will vary!
I don’t agree. They could use the side connection to the truck without even backing up and go directly.
Ohh good idea! If that’s an available hookup on the side of the truck directly across from the hydrant then I totally agree with you.
Yep, opinions based on watching videos will definitely vary which is all good 🙂 — But maybe I poorly explained my main point by introducing irrelevant stuff about the rigid hose and position of the truck. My thinking is that with the flexible hose it is faster to go around/over the car, no matter where the truck is placed. You’d be doing everything exactly the same, without the extra time of breaking the windows and tossing it through the car. Check out this photo, where the car is in a worse position and they went over it–the hose is less kinked and I guarantee it took less time. Yes it’s only three seconds to break the windows, but the argument against me here is “It was necessary to break the windows to save time/get a better lay” and I’m arguing that the opposite is true–it took time to break the windows and they got a worse lay. Unfortunately we can only really settle this with a couple of firetrucks, two expendable cars, and some stopwatches so we probably will need to keep respectfully disagreeing 😉 https://images.app.goo.gl/kNfXU9uEWfFqjq4bA
Growing up in NY I thought that everyone knew this could happen. This is why I never park close to a Hydrant.
It was even a detail in Backdraft!
Backdraft was Chicago
aw man
90’s TV taught us that:
Cops = New York, because NYPD Blue and Law & Order
Fire = Chicago, because Chicago Fire
But in all fairness TV aside. for over 100 years the “Great Chicago Fire” made Americans equate Fire with Chicago…. then 9/11/2001 will forever equate Fire with the FDNY!
They should have gone through the windshield instead of the side windows to make up for that many late tickets. Next time park somewhere else.
A common misconception is that windshields are more expensive, they’re typically the cheapest piece of glass on a car…
Lotsa conjecture here but little to no facts. Hey, Autopian, why not contact the NYFD and write a follow-up article to shed light on the procedures / training firefighters get in situations like this? Answer things like whether this is required procedure, why run through instead of around, what’s the impact to flow, etc.?
Actually, re-read the comments, there has already been a reply from a current FDNY firefighter who was at the scene. Confirms most everything in the Autopian article
That the vehicle owner, based on their ticket history, appears to be a dickwad is irrelevant. No way the fire crew checked the vehicle’s history before deciding where to route the hose.
Looking at the last set of photos showing the process of setting up the hose makes it pretty clear that the hose could have easily routed around the front of the car. Yes, it would have been kinked near the front tire, but much less so than the multiple kinks going through the window. FDNY is in the wrong here.