In a massive market, some of the most interesting battles are held in the margins. Although we’re still a few weeks out from full-year sales reports being published, it seems like we could be in for an interesting set of winners and losers once year-end EV sales data is in. American-market Tesla sales are reportedly slightly down through October, and there’s now a serious risk that the Cybertruck might not be pulling enough weight for Tesla to actually deliver year-over-year sales growth. Speaking of stalling, it turns out that the Hemi V8 isn’t dying at Dodge this year after all. Who could’ve seen this coming?
Well, anyone who read the sales charts and saw the departure of Carlos Tavares as a sign. Oh, and new car sales are expected to be up overall this year — a little bit of good news that we can all appreciate.
Welcome back to The Morning Dump. Matt’s out this morning and I’ve been trusted with taking over, so with the holidays growing ever closer, make yourself a cup of cocoa, pull up a seat, and get ready for some automotive news you need to read.
The Hellcat Gets A Stay Of Execution
With 2025 around the corner, the availability of V8 engines is set to disappear from Dodge’s lineup for good, right? Well, not quite. Dodge just announced that production of Durango SUVs with the 5.7-liter Hemi V8 and 6.2-liter supercharged Hellcat V8 will continue into 2025, a change of plans compared to a statement in January that 2024 would be “the final calendar year of V-8 HEMI® engine production for the Dodge Durango.” So much for “Last Call”, huh?
The truth is, Dodge needs the Durango SRT Hellcat more than ever. This is a brand that built its modern foundation on brawny V8s, and the latest pivot away from that has been met with a certain degree of hostility. The Charger Daytona EV hasn’t exactly received thoroughly glowing reviews (though our Sam A. liked it), while the Hornet compact crossover continues to be a slow-selling product in its class. For traditionalists, the Durango Hellcat is the apex of Mopar performance right now, and although it’s not a muscle car per se, the malevolent reputation of that 6.2-liter supercharged V8 means it’s indisputably Dodge’s halo product right now. Sure, the Charger Daytona Scat Pack Stage 2 may be quicker, but the 717 horsepower in the Durango SRT Hellcat is more than the 670 in the brand’s new EV.
Perhaps as a result, the Durango was the best-selling Dodge product in the third quarter by a country mile. No, really, Dodge sold 26,559 vehicles in Q3, 3,848 of which were Hornet crossovers, 5,104 of which were leftover 2023 Chargers, 3,657 of which were leftover 2023 Challengers, one of which was a Dart for some freaking reason, and 13,949 of which were Durangos — which is 14 years old, having entered production in 2010. I’m not normally one to make predictions, but with the pace of Hornet sales, the dwindling supply of leftover 2023 Chargers and Challengers, and questions over the new Charger Daytona’s market acceptance, killing the Hemi Durango may very well have left Dodge outsold by Chrysler, which shifted 21,504 Pacifica minivans in Q3. Indeed, Dodge claiming it’s extending V8 Durango production “Due in part to market demand and customer feedback” adds some credibility to this theory.
It also helps that Dodge was already cranking out 2025 model year Durangos, meaning these engines were already homologated for the 2025 model year. Saying ‘screw it’ to the previous plan of a Dec. 31, 2024 phase-out and going into the new year just makes sense if basically everything is paid for. Plus, with Carlos Tavares out of the picture, it’s likely Stellantis management is more willing to let this one slide. However, there is one Durango that won’t see production extended — the 6.4-liter SRT 392 model will say goodbye when the calendar flips around to 2025.
Tesla’s Sales Growth Might Finally Be Stalling
It helps to get a read on the near future of battery electric vehicles by looking at what the leaders in the segment are doing, and the leader in North America by volume is Tesla. However, 2024 might not be the year Tesla was hoping for, with a high possibility of sales remaining flat. In fact, Reuters reports that independent data claims Tesla sales are actually dipping slightly.
Still, data from S&P Global Mobility showed Tesla’s U.S. registrations as of end-October fell to about 500,000 vehicles, down about 7% from the year-earlier period. The decline was partly due to a fall of 32% in Model 3 registrations, and to a 24% drop in Model S luxury sedans.
Alright, so a reported sales decline of 32 percent for Tesla’s second-most popular model really isn’t great, especially given that the Model 3 received a substantial facelift earlier this year and is now a significantly better car than it used to be. If sales for the Model 3 and Model S remain steady for Q4, that means Tesla will be leaning on the Cybertruck to bolster Model Y sales. How’s that going?
Tesla does not break out sales of Cybertruck – but the S&P data showed U.S. registrations of the pickup falling to 4,335 in September and 4,039 in October, from 5,428 in August. Through October, the total was 31,451. Analysts at Bernstein expect 50,000 of them by the end of the year.
“The Cybertruck is not doing enough to bring the brand up,” said Tom Libby, S&P Global Mobility’s associate director of industry analysis.
Ah, that’s not good. Don’t get me wrong, a forecast of 50,000 units by the end of 2024 isn’t nothing, Cybertruck sales now seem to be outperforming F-150 Lightning sales, and Tesla expanding Cybertruck sales to Canada in November will likely help global Cybertruck deliveries, but this doesn’t quite seem to be the mass-market success Tesla was going for.
So what’s going on? Well, several things. For Tesla at large, the brand’s leaned on Elon Musk’s public image for over a decade as its big marketing asset, and that public image has grown increasingly controversial. Even setting aside the purchase of Twitter for a second, most car company CEOs don’t publicly and aggressively align themselves with one political party, but that’s exactly what Musk has done, deepening ties with the incoming administration. Now, there are definitely other carmakers who are extremely active in lobbying, but Tesla seems to be the most visible thanks to the actions of the guy at the top. Understandably, this will be a turn-off for some customers, and an opportunity for some conquests for other automakers.
Then there’s what the Cybertruck has come to stand for in the general discourse. If a vehicle is a symbol of a culture war, don’t be surprised when divisive public opinion of that vehicle affects sales. Just as some people will be attracted to the Cybertruck due to what it supposedly stands for, lots of people are repelled for that very same reason. Not rocking the boat is usually good for sales, but the Cybertruck is threatening to tip the thing. Perhaps that contributes to reports of used Cybertrucks taking an average of 75 days to sell on CarGurus, although it’s also worth noting that sales of electric pickup trucks are somewhat slow in general.
Of course, affordability also plays a huge factor. People don’t have a ton of money to throw around right now, having been squeezed by inflation and the death of near-zero interest rates over the past few years. That softening demand is probably why Tesla is currently offering free Supercharging on Model S sedans, or advertising $299-per-month 36-month leasing with $2,999 down on the entry-level Model 3. Incentives shift units, and consumers can change their minds on things based on cost.
It’s also worth noting that Tesla currently faces stronger competition than ever. From General Motors’ big EV push to Ford having lowered Mustang Mach-E prices this year to almost every automaker offering at least one battery electric vehicle, shoppers have never had such wide-ranging choice. Heck, Tesla’s not even the only choice if you want a car that’ll connect to Tesla’s Supercharger network, as several companies including Ford, GM, Nissan, Polestar, Rivian, and Volvo already have access to Tesla’s charging infrastructure. Surely, that competition and a more equal playing field for Supercharger access will affect Tesla demand.
This all comes to a head with one big question: What happens if the line doesn’t go up? After all, Tesla’s main product isn’t a car, it’s a stock with a market cap that seems wildly detached from reality. People who started investing years after the 2008 Global Financial Crisis aren’t used to not seeing perpetual growth, and a chunk of Tesla’s value is driven by retail investors. I guess we’ll just have to wait until year-end numbers are out to see what happens. In any case, the likely result here is that overall growth will be distributed among the rest of the EV market. Not a bad time to be Hyundai or GM, right?
We’re On Track For A Pretty Good Sales Year
Alright, let’s cut the atmosphere of uncertainty and give a little levity to this edition of The Morning Dump with some news everyone can likely appreciate. New vehicle sales in America are widely expected to be up this year, with lower interest rates, an environment of urgency, and increased incentives all doing their parts to get butts into new cars. As Automotive News reports:
The U.S. new light-vehicle market is expected to end 2024 with sales just shy of 16 million vehicles, up from 15.6 million last year. Cox Automotive is projecting a tally of 15.8 million vehicles, while J.D. Power/GlobalData, Edmunds and AutoForecast Solutions each anticipate more than 15.9 million
Several hundred thousand units is a fairly significant increase, and it signals that new cars are becoming more affordable. It’s no secret that many automakers are subventing interest rates and adjusting trim mixes to focus a little more on value options now that the rampant trimflation of the early 2020s has largely run its course, and consumers seem to be reaping the benefits.
Even if you aren’t a new car shopper, more new cars being sold is a good thing. It means more cars are circulating in America’s fleet, and since many of those new cars displace other cars in driveways and garages across the nation, it should contribute to a boost in used car supply. More supply usually means lower prices if demand stays consistent, so as long as 2025 continues this building pace on the new car side, expect used cars to continue to get cheaper in the future.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
It’s a grey, snowy winter day in Toronto, which means it’s time for something a bit moody and ambient. The Ray J sample chop on Burial’s “Archangel” is still absolutely fantastic 17 years later, and hey, a Metal Gear Solid sample flip. How about that? It all adds up to a rich, exciting soundscape with brilliant tension throughout the track. Yeah, this one’s a certified classic.
The Big Question
The Durango might retain its V8 for another year, but beyond that, how much longer could you see Dodge keeping the Hemi for? Moreover, if you were Dodge, how would you drive desirability when you have a product plan to phase out V8s and a customer base absolutely hooked on them?
(Photo credits: Dodge, Tesla, Chevrolet)
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Going past my local CDJR dealer today it appears inventory on the lot is way down, which seems counterintuitive.
thousands of leftover ’23s when the ’25s were already hitting the ground says a lot
Right?! I love that the charger and Challenger both outsold the hornet. Or maybe the Challenger quite, close enough and I’m too lazy to go back up and look.
I’ve been guilty, more than once, saying “this is my last one… please close me out,” at my local.
And then having one more. But, when I do, I just pay cash for the real last one(s).
They can’t afford to lose it or they have so many clogging up the supply chain already that they can’t risk doing a mid-cycle refresh on a car that’s 14 years old
My current family line up of daily drivers is a wagon, a quad cab truck, and a 3 row SUV. Say what you will, but if I had FU money, I’m pretty sure we would have the exact same lineup, but it would be Porsche Taycan Wagon, a Ram TRX, and a Hellcat Durango.
Hell yeah!
I know Stellantis has already made a strategic decision to move forward with inline engines but a smaller, more modern V8 would be cool and set them apart. I will admit that Hemi sounds sweet. I had a Durango RT as a rental recently and loved the sound of it. Maybe a small V8 with electric assist is in order? I dunno..
“Maybe a small V8 with electric assist is in order?”
Or perhaps a regular sized V8 with an Atkinson tune for optimum fuel efficiency and an electric assist?
For those concerned that an Atkinson cycle would castrate the exhaust note I will say a Prius with a stolen cat is pretty damn throaty. I’m sure Dodge can figure out how to set up an exhaust so an Atkinson Hemi will make noises buyers will like.
TBQ: 2025 will be the final year, unless the “we want a Hemi crowd” doesn’t actually buy Hemi’s like they say they do (which means the final year will be 2026, because the internet “wants” a Hemi, but the percentage of people online that actually go out to buy Hemi’s are smaller than the sales of the Hurricane I6 so far).
This is 1978 all over again. They need to shift to bread and butter models all over again to come out the other side better, and damn anyone who doesn’t like it. “100%“ of the population hated Omni’s and K-Cars, but what sold more, the “Far more popular, and everyone has to have one” Hemi V8’s or the Omni/K-Cars? Definitely not the junker Hemi, I can tell you that much!
Since I was on vacation when Kuniskis got re-hired and didn’t get to take my victory lap, allow me to say it now: Called it!
Who could possibly have foreseen Tesla sales dropping after their CEO became actively hostile toward the demographic most likely to buy their cars? I can’t say I’m shedding any tears either. Tesla is single-handedly responsible for ruining interior design of modern cars and the sooner everyone admits that the emperor has no clothes the better off we’ll be.
I hate Tesla for many reasons. And the biggest of all is what they’ve done to modern interiors.
All the police departments are having issues with their durangos in my area… they are unreliable in very extreme ways. Why anyone would buy one with or without a hemi when there are other vehicles that foot the bill just as well is beyond me. Stellantis screwed the pooch, shit the bed, made peace with God or whatever euphemism you want to apply here, but Dodge probably just ain’t long for this world.
yeah any car brand that only has one new model in 10 years time (the hornet) is not going to be successful. They let their brand literally die on the vine to prop up jeep which was wildly successful but that success COULD have just been a fad. every other brand has new product either every year or every other year.
Dodge should have a little fun with it by building an R5 Turbo-inspired Hornet with a rear-mid-mounted Hemi and electric/hybrid power to the front wheels. Kind of like when your doctor tells you to go ahead and smoke because you’re going to die before it makes a difference.
The only CT’s available for a while were the “Foundation Series” with an extra $20k (IIRC) added to the price for the “privilege”. Now they’re having employees scrape those stickers off and removing the extra profit to move units. CT also didn’t have access to FSD until recently. Gee, I wonder why a crippled flagship didn’t sell as well as hoped.
I was one of those 15 million vehicle buyers this year, with a new 7 seat Model Y long range AWD being driven home. Thanks for the cheap money, Tesla! Incredibly well packaged and laid out vehicle. Build quality is acceptable. It tows my little camper with seemingly zero effort. Even the touchscreen is fine now that I know where things are.
That said, I wish the CEO would fly off to Mars.
Yup! They just need to get production on the more reasonably priced CT models rolling! Then they will see some good volume. I just feel like the low-priced model advertised (not just Tesla) never ever shows up. Maybe this situation will finally add some urgency to Tesla to start producing lower priced trims already. Their cars are getting a bit stale, too, in my opinion. They look good but they are all derivatives of the S which is flat-out ancient at this point.
Tesla does a poor job of making the very substantial hardware updates stand out. A 2021 Tesla is much less powerful tech wise than a 2024. The MY also got substantial suspension retuning done for 2024. But looking at them, it’s impossible to the lay person to tell them apart.
I think Dodge should just keep the V8, keep it for the Durango/RAM, and put it in the new Charger too as an option, it should be able to fit. Now that they’re coming out with the Ramcharger and Charger Daytona EV they can offset the emissions hit, or even just add it to the cost of each car like Ford does with the Mustang.
On the Cybertruck, the next town over to us has one of only 3 showrooms in the state and their storage lot has a bunch of Cybertrucks. I think what they have on hand is already sold, so seems like they’re still selling ok. I’m really hoping the ‘success’ of the Cybertruck pushes other car makes to come out with some wilder EV ideas. You can make an EV look like whatever you want without having to worry about where the gas is stored and exhaust goes, how the transmission hooks up, and for the most part how to cool the engine, give us some Dodge M80, GMC Granite CPU, Subaru Baja, Isuzu Vehicross looking stuff!
What Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM should have done is invest in a new generation Hemi with an aluminum block, direct injection and borrow the Maserati Nettuno pre-combustion tech for it. Then combine that with a hybrid system with an electric motor on for the front wheels and a smaller one as a motor generator to delete the starter and belt drive accessories (like the new 911 T-Hybrid), then have the new Charger, 300, and Durango built off of the STLA medium/large platform with the Hurricane as the base, Hurricane HO as the hotted up version, and the Hemi hybrid as the top performance models. Take the EV Charger off the market, fix the issues, and then rerelease it once it’s actually finished.
Then take that Hemi and add 2 more cylinders to it, delete the front motor from the hybrid system, and plop it into a new Viper.
At the same time, take the Hurricane, cut off 2 cylinders and make a new cheap and cheerful Neon subcompact sedan and hatch, of course offer it as hybrid, too.
Put those same drivetrains into a new Pacifica.
I would have to imagine we’re a matter of months away from Cybertruck sales falling off an absolute cliff. Well, maybe not cliff, since that would imply a massive dropoff from some sort of immense height, so we’ll say falling down a short but steep flight of basement stairs.
It seems to be the epitome of a niche product that isn’t particularly useful, efficient or you know, good at being anything other than a lightning rod. But hey, it’ll make for good Glorious Garbage fodder when Torch reboots that reoccurring blog 30 years from now.
The problem for Dodge is not just the HEMI but a lack of product mix. They got fined because they sold so many V8 vehicles. The Charger could have gone electric while keeping the Challenger around. They need a small crossover that is not hot garbage.
I don’t follow Dodge news much but I got to think if they quit selling the Ram Classic and quit putting V8’s in the half-ton, meaning the I6 would be the biggest engine they have, that their sales will monumentally suffer. And maybe they’ve already done both, idk
They have. I’m already under the expectation that sales will be around 200,000, give or take 10,000.
We have a higher than normal incidence of Cybertruck. Whenever I see one, I expect Sylvester Stallone to jump out as Judge Dredd.
I see them almost every day I’m out in DC. I have no idea why. Maybe all the Republican congresspeople got them.
As “campaign donations.”
Honestly, if they are still selling that same hemi V8 in 2030, I won’t be surprised. I don’t think there will be a strong regulatory need to ditch it and as long as there are buyers, might as well keep building them.
50k? They found 50k people who wanted that ugly hunk of junk?
You don’t understand what motivates people. People don’t get face tattoos becasue they look good.
Yeah, I guess there’s high demand for ugly DUMPSTERS full of TRASH these days…
For CDJR, does JK refer to (a) the prior generation of Wrangler or (b) what Dodge says every other year about cancelling the Hellcat Durango? Yes.
Does this mean there’s going to be another class-action against Dodge like when they brought the Hellcat Durango back after the 2021 run?
I get the idea of putting out the Hurricane I6, but just like Ford still makes the Coyote for the F150, Dodge could easily still make the Hemi for the people that want them. Ford still sells more ecoboosts than V8s but still has it for the customer who absolutely has to have a V8.
The fact that folks are still buying Durangos is fascinating to me. I get that people are still buying Chargers and Challengers, but they’re unique products. There isn’t another old school muscle car on the market and good luck finding another V8 performance sedan without heading into the luxury ranks.
…but a 3 row crossover? You have nearly infinite options, and the current Durango wasn’t even competitive when it was launched. It’s an objectively terrible car compared to its competitors and if you spend all of 5 minutes digging around on the interwebs there are endless tales of how poorly they’re made.
…I can see them appealing to the “muh V8” crowd as well as a subset of enthusiasts who have to compromise and get a family car, but the vast majority of customers are buying rental spec versions of them with the V6. I’m just not sure how you could sit in a Pilot, Highlander, hell the new Traverse, etc. and conclude that you want the Durango…and that’s not even taking predicted reliability and fuel economy into account, where the Durango also struggles.
But then again this is Doge. They’ve been a shambling corpse for the last 5-10 years but their customers don’t seem to care. The brand just resonates with people in a way that others don’t. But anyway more Hellcat Durangos is a good thing because it means they’ll depreciate to the point that we can afford them…and idk about you but I do admire the absurdity of cramming that engine into a mediocre crossover that’s not even vaguely designed for it. It’s very true to the OG muscle car ethos and I must respect it.
The Durango is for exactly who you think it’s for. Someone who needs the 3rd row for their kids but their fragile masculinity makes them buy the Durango with the hemi. They want a Tahoe or Suburban with the V8 but can’t swing the $10k price difference
The part that surprises me about it is the Grand Cherokee L exists, had the Hemi available (though Jeep apparently dropped the Hemi for 2025, but I bet we see that reversed too), and is a much newer, more comfortable platform. Its either the swagger, or incentives moving the Durango.
Grand Cherokees are really nice cars! They look good, if you get one in an upper trim they’re very, very well put together on the inside, and they tend to last. My sister currently has my dad’s that he bought in 2014 and it’s about to hit 150k. It’s had a few hiccups along the way as all Jeep products do but mechanically it’s been a champ. Just don’t ask about the fuel economy….
Your incentives thing could be part of it, but Jeep is practically giving GCs away too. Some have as much as $15,000 off sticker. Getting a higher trim (Overland or something like that?) discounted into the 40s is an excellent choice. They’re great trucks. If the PHEV wasn’t such an abject disaster we’d be looking at one for my wife.
I have the PHEV and definitely wouldn’t recommend it. Even with all the discounts its not worth the number of recalls and warranty work I’ve had to put up with.
It does seem like it would be much easier to simply make more GCLs to cover for the Durango. Granted not every Dodge dealer also sells Jeeps/vice versa, but I can’t imagine that alone is accounting for it.
My guesses are since there is no SRT/Trackhawk of the current GC, the Durango fills that void for a performance SUV. Not a huge share of volume, but certainly has to be profitable. And then pursuit package Durangos, especially with the Charger out of the picture.
The Durango has up to 8700lbs of towing capacity with the V8. Not much in that size class that can compete in that regard.
I’m assuming the fact that the Durango is a light truck, and therefore held to a lesser CAFE standard than passenger cars, plays a role in Stellantis approving this vs not extending Charger/Challenger/300 production an extra year to close the gap with the new Charger
Probably contributes, but I imagine dropping the LX cars was more about retooling the plant whereas the Durango plant is pretty set with Grand Cherokee production too. Plus 2023 was the current Durango’s best-ever sales year. Probably easier to steer someone that was interested in an LX car into a Durango than the other way around.
Or/unless there was a safety reg for passenger cars that went into effect that they didn’t want to bother with, I think something like that happened with the Journey or Grand Caravan near the end too.
The plant was idled at the end of 2023 and started retooling this year for the electric Jeep Compass, which isn’t expected to hit volume production until sometime next year, so there was a gap in facility utilization, too
I guess it seems that the amount of people who want and can afford a cybertruck is pretty small and I imagine that number is only getting smaller as the hype is dying off. Also, Dodge should continue to offer V8’s until taking it away won’t piss off their customers.
I’m a part-time Durango fanboi, and I love the Durango (and WK2 Grand Cherokee) with the V8. It was my personal runner-up before we ended up with an Odyssey, because, well, minivans rule. Durangos are surprisingly well-mannered cars, owing a lot to their old Mercedes R&D roots, even if they have had a reaaaaalllly long run for a modern vehicle. And TBH, one of the biggest beefs with a V8 is fuel economy, but the Hemi models do significantly better than the V6 4Runner, and those things are EVERYWHERE. I never seem to see people complaining much about efficiency when Toyota is concerned, even though that car was a decade or more behind the curve, and similarly aged (until just recently…I think. Toyota’s SUV marketing is a trainwreck right now).
I’ve always kinda wanted a Hemi WK2. I have a 5th gen 4R, and you’re right, the mpg is not great. ESPECIALLY considering how slow the damn thing is. Most 4Runner enthusiasts are big time fanbois, and whenever someone DOES mention mpg or lack of power, the commenter is bombarded with calls of “what did you expect from a truck?” (it’s not a truck), “it’s all about the smiles per gallon” (what smiles? These are not at all fun to drive on road), and “it’s reliable because it’s old school!”. (There may be something to that last one).
I always thought the Hemi WK2 must be super fun to drive, especially the later ones with the ZF 8speed. That’s a big issue with the 4R, btw that 5 speed transmission. It just does not do a good job of managing the 4.0’s available power.
I ended up with my 4R because I wanted something offroad capable, but even Jeep guys told me a Wrangler was not the best for my 60 mile daily commute, and the Bronco was not yet out. I’m still a little salty about the JGC going fully independent suspension, so that was out. The 4R was the only thing left. After nearly 6 years and 100K miles with it, I’m pretty sick of driving it, but there’s STILL no real competitor. A fixed roof Bronco would be ideal.
Makes perfect sense, and fwiw I do like the 4Runner, I was just picking on it for an illustration of popular vs unpopular cars. It’s probably the best all-around vehicle for people who actually go off-road. My beef is that very few of them do, so if you eliminate that need from the equation, that greatness dwindles away quickly. And you’re absolutely right that there’s no real solid-axle competition there. Maybe the Lexus GX…oh, wait. FJ Cruiser…d’oh! (maybe an older Montero/Pajero)
The fixed roof Bronco is called the Everest, but Ford doesn’t seem interested in competing with itself on the pair of Ranger based SUVs at least in the US and Canada.
You want an offroad explorer with 4-Lo and body on frame and you want a comfortable commuter car.
Mike, you need two cars. Your 4Runner is eating your lunch in gas costs assuming you work 5 days a week, with a 60 mile commute. And if gas ever goes back to $6 a gallon or more, which is highly likely since the Middle East likes to blow up every couple of years or so, you can bet the pain will be much, much worse.
With the high resale values of 4Runners, you can get a reliable used hybrid commuter and then have a good down payment on the Wrangler you want for your off days.
You’re not wrong, but I don’t want to have all that money tied up in 2 vehicles. Plus, since the trails are 4 hours away, I still want something comfortable on the road.
I’m pretty used to getting 20mpg and the associated fuel cost, so I take that as price of entry for driving something that I like and am comfortable in. There really aren’t any commuter type cars that I have interest in spending money on.
I’m actually mulling over trading the 4R for a used F150 hybrid. Better mpg, WAY more power, comfy interior, and the electric power will be super handy for camping, which I often do out of my 4R. It’s definitely not a trail rig, but they can fit a good-sized tire and a lot of them have selectable rear locking diffs. With a 700-mile range, it would make a good overlanding type vehicle.
I see the 4Runner fuel economy get referenced as a punchline, same with the V6 Tacoma – but it seems like most consider it the price to pay (literally) for the reliability.
The funny thing is the 4Runners can be kind of needy as far as maintenance and small repairs go. For instance, I’ve just replaced brake caliper #4 on mine. My Volvo is 6 years newer with 50K more miles and still has all 4 original calipers.
If you live in a road salt area, there a lot of little things that pop up as a result of corrosion. Another one is that my neutral safety switch bugs out sometimes and I lose 5th gear and cruise control. I’ve also had to pull over on the highway because a rotted-out heat shield mount let go and let it fall on top of the driveshaft.
The Hemi V8s have better fuel economy than the V6 4Runners (seriously, that’s a low bar to clear) because the Hemi V8s have had cylinder deactivation since 2003.
Meanwhile, Toyota sells 5 times as many Camrys and Corollas as it does 4Runners, which balances out the CAFE MPG figures.
Dodge sells…. more Hemi V8s? Dodge was basically funding Tesla for years buying gas guzzler credits. It’s no wonder Stellantis would like to electrify if at all possible, just from a marketing standpoint (because who buys Dodges if not for a Hemi V8) I wonder if they should have developed a hybrid Hemi with a more aggressive cylinder deactivation. Like unless you activate a Hi-Po mode, it would basically run around as a hybrid V4.