Happy Friday! We’re at the end of the first week of our tour of the alphabet, and we’re celebrating the letter E with two cars with seriously mixed-up lineages. The prices are way different, I realize, but that’s okay, because I say it is.
For yesterday’s matchup, I almost had to give up and find another D car in place of a Daewoo. They are not easy cars to find for sale these days. The only other Daewoo I found was a red Lanos hatchback that was up to its axles in a blackberry bramble, and probably had been for at least a decade. I almost went with that one, but this Leganza had better photos. In either case, I didn’t expect it to win, and I was right.
That cute little Daihatsu Mira hatchback is the kind of car I love: small, lightweight, simple, and with roughly the same energy as a pug attacking an ice cream cone. It’s probably not a “keeper,” but as something to fix up, enjoy for a year or so, and then sell for what you’ve got into it, it could be a whole lot of fun in a small package.
When you start digging into the history of the auto industry, it’s pretty amazing how much cross-pollination there is between companies. Smaller makers buy components from larger ones, joint ventures produce weird cross-breeds, and auto execs jump from company to company and often take their preferences and ethos with them. Almost no cars are the pure vision of just one person, or company. Today’s cars both have some really mixed-up family trees – and that might be the only thing they have in common. Let’s check them out.
1976 Excalibur Series III Phaeton – $33,500
Engine/drivetrain: 454 cubic inch overhead valve V8, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Odometer reading: 49,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
The whole neo-classical car phenomenon is a little strange. It’s hard for me to believe there are enough people who want to buy a car that looks like a 1920s Mercedes but drives like a 1960s Impala, but plenty of companies tried it, and they all sold at least some cars. One of the more successful companies, Excalibur, of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, started out as a Studebaker show car, designed by Brooks Stevens. Studebaker passed on the idea, but the Excalibur went into production anyway. About 3,500 Excaliburs were built over the course of twenty-seven years – not bad for a tiny company that made most of the car itself.
Production Excaliburs all had Chevrolet V8s. Corvette 327 small-blocks were used in the early days, but this Series III car has a big-block 454, backed by a Turbo-Hydramatic 400 transmission. With a full complement of malaise-era smog equipment, this big engine only manages 215 horsepower, but it provides a good soundtrack; those side-exhaust pipes coming out of the hood are functional, not just decorative. Roaring V8 exhaust, and Roaring Twenties bodywork – it’s sort of like The Great Gatsby meets Southern Culture On The Skids.
In contrast to the many kit car manufacturers active at the same time, Excalibur did the thing right – these cars are comfortable, and well put together, from what I’ve heard. This is the four-seat Phaeton model, with nice-looking leather seats, and a full set of gauges that all work fine. It has had some recent mechanical work, and runs like a top, the seller says.
The bodywork on an Excalibur is fiberglass, or course, but well-done fiberglass. This one is in good condition, with only a few rock chips to tell the tale of its 49,000 miles. No worries; nobody wants a flawless car anyway. It has new tires, and includes the full convertible top and side curtains, which look like they’re in nice shape as well.
1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD – $7,500
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.0-liter dual overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, AWD
Location: Zanesville, OH
Odometer reading: 180,000 miles
Operational status: Doesn’t say, actually – I assume it runs fine
Chrysler’s purchase of American Motors in 1987 made for some really strange showroom-mates. This Eagle Talon is a product of Diamond-Star Motors, a joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi, but it was sold alongside Jeeps and rebadged Renaults, as well as other Mitsubishi products. I feel sorry for mechanics at Jeep-Eagle dealerships in 1990; imagine having to know the ins and outs of AMC’s inline six, the notorious PRV V6, and this car’s turbocharged twin-cam four.
The DSM factory in Normal, Illinois produced these sporty coupes with not only Eagle badges, but Mitsubishi and Plymouth as well. Three levels of power were offered; this turbocharged 2.0 liter version was the top dog, with 190 horsepower delivered to a complex all-wheel-drive system through a five-speed manual. These cars were seriously quick in their day, and became a darling of the tuner crowd. Stock Talons and Mitsubishi Eclipses are getting hard to find these days. (Plymouth only sold about six Lasers, I think, so hardly anybody even remembers them.) This one looks stock, but the seller has provided absolutely no information about its condition, so it’s hard to say for sure.
It looks good inside and appears to be stock in there as well – right down to the factory stereo, which has an in-dash cassette deck and a CD player. Fancy stuff for 1990. The car has 180,000 miles on it, but only the sagging driver’s seat outer bolster shows it. Unfortunately, like all first-generation DSM coupes, it does have those dumb motorized shoulder belts.
Outside, it’s got a bit of rust, though it’s hard to say how much exactly, because of those plastic lower skirts on the body. The right front fender has a hole in it, which isn’t a good sign. It’s one of the dangers of driving a cool AWD car in the Rust Belt – it’s great in the snow, but you pay for it.
I can’t imagine anyone in their right mind cross-shopping these two, but no one has ever accused me of being in my right mind. So I’m making you choose between a neo-classical hot rod convertible and a fire-breathing early 90s sports coupe. Next week, we’re continuing with the alphabet, with F through J. See you then!
OF COURSE the Excalibur is in Florida.
The neoclassical cars were always a trash fever dream of old men refusing to move on.
They are an example of why the term “nostalgia” began as a category of mental illness.
Awful garbage. Terrible to look at. Terrible to drive. Terrible quality. Terribly uninteresting.
I mean, unless you like acres of cheap upholstery material, poorly applied, a chassis that’s basically a pickup truck, and a super-useless constant source of little mechanical problems. It’s a constantly running nose of an ownership experience.
the Talon, on the other hand, was a goddamn revelation when it debuted. Stout as hell, takes modifications well, is fun to drive, and the 1st gens are the best-looking. And, with my affinity for AMC, that’s the one I have to vote for.
And it was built where they’re now stamping out Rivians.
That Talon was never that great (sounds like nostalgia from reading about modded ones in SCC back in the day) and this one is absolute junk. It’s a parts car with limited useful parts at best and I don’t even know how much of a market there is as I haven’t seen one of these in maybe over a decade and that would have been a rare sighting and I saw a no-grille Passat wagon today! If there is a market somewhere in the country, there are probably better parts cars available there.
I thought they were exceptional in their class by combining strong, turbocharged engines (210 hp!) with manual transmissions and all-wheel drive. They could launch pretty hard AND handle well.
There were better performers in the class, but they were a solid foe.
You’re right, this particular one is probably more oxide than automobile. I wish we’d get past all the boomer cars and start getting excited about stuff that’s “only” 30 years old. It’s not nostalgia so much as it’s exhaustion. I got into cars in the ’80s, and, really, we’ve had just about enough of the ’69 Camaro by now.
They were definitely good in their day against so many lackluster coupes (damn, if I had only appreciated that time when there were options besides CUV or pickup!) or stuff like 5.0 Mustangs and they were early on the scene with AWD and turbo in a more performance role, but all the ones I knew about seemed to have a lot of problems, which was disappointing.
Total agreement about the boomer cars. Those things are fine, but there’s a whole world of cars beyond the ’50-60s domestics. I was sick of seeing ’57 Chevys and ’69 SS clones in my teens. It’s like those people who stopped listening to new music in their teens. To each their own, but it seems so limited, especially where some of these people only have that one or two interests.
69/31 for the Talon as I voted, and I’m surprised it is that close. I’d love to get my claws into that Talon.
Apparently, a lot of people are fortunate enough to not be very familiar with rot to tell that Eagle is junk yard fodder. Maybe the worn seats are worth something to someone and the glass, but that’s not $7500 in parts. The drivetrain’s likely worn out (they weren’t terribly reliable in the first place) and I’m sure the suspension and everything else is completely used up to match the rest, not that it would be worth repairing with what’s left of that shell. Oh wait, you mean close the other way?
Finding a 35 year-old Talon/Eclipse/Laser in any condition these days is a tough ask. And even if I have to do a ton of work on it and it costs me more than the purchase price of the Excalibur, I’d still be happier.
There’s a reason they’re tough to find and have been for quite a while, but I’m sure you could find one that isn’t junk yard ready for less than this would cost to restore.
I’m aware. These were the options we were given today, and I chose one. Put it against something other than an Excalibur, and we’ll have a different conversation.
The Excalibur presents pretty well for what it is. Anyone outside of CA should expect to use it 4 times a year, and one of those times will be for a parade. I live in the midwest, so I can’t really appreciate it.
Also, malaise-era engine with a 3 speed automatic trans. (Shudder)
The rust on the Talon is real, but so is the utility of the car in general.
They’re both overpriced, but only one is a parts car. That Eagle is a trashed POS. If there’s rot in the upper fender like that, it’s been beat on and neglected and the side rail in the other pic confirms it. I would bet good money the undercarriage is dandruff. Another reason for thinking that is that I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen even a 2nd generation of the Diamond Stars, never mind 1st and it’s from Ohio, which uses more salt on the roads than we do, so if it’s not mint, it’s almost gotta be junk. I remember them when they were new and, eh, they were quick for the time, but kind of underwhelming otherwise and looked just about like every other low end coupe (though now that means they stand out in a good way in today’s traffic). Not normally a stance I’d expect to take (per the usual with these choices), but taken without the social baggage (I really don’t care what people think, but the whole neo-classical thing was very strange and not in a way I like), that Excalibur is going to be the more interesting car to drive and look ridiculous when spinning the tires. I wouldn’t pay $33k (or buy one at all), but between these two, I have to go with the one that has life left in it.
Today I’d rather vote for neither, knowing how much it would cost to fix that rust I think the Eagle is overpriced by about 5k.
As weird as it is, the Excalibur is in Florida, the Eagle in Ohio. The Eagle has a hole in a body part. I’m not picking up that rustbucket at $7,500, and give me the Excalibur. If it ain’t Baroque, I don’t (have to) fix it.
Maybe not in a single person, but certainly in a single family. For a while there I owned my ’91 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (almost exactly like this one but mine was just black over silver where this one has the cherry clear coat) and my dad’s daily driver was a ’29 Mercedes Gazelle kit car based on a 70s Pinto. No shit, he dailied that one-car parade and his commute was an hour each way and it wasn’t anywhere near as well built or comfortable as that Excalibur up there.
This match-up really brings back some memories, thanks Mark. Oh, and those motorized seatbelts weren’t dumb they were AWESOME!!! Never understood why people hated them.
I heard that Super Fly wanted the Excalibur, but Huggy Bear would not budge on the price!
Everyday enigma Eagle eliminates expensive esoteric Excalibur
Exellent English execution, esteemed everyman.
The Excalibur should been thrown right back into Lake Avalon, preferably on top of the Lady in the Lake. I despised these things when they came out. Now, many years have passed . . . and I still hate them But, as the saying goes, one man’s meat (always thought that should have been mead) is another man’s poison, so I’m not going to crap all over any neoclassical car fans. Obviously, I’m voting for the Talon and I bet the Motorious SWG fondly remembers the Plymouth Laser.
You can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just ’cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
I voted for the Eagle but would probably haggle down on the price. Drive it for a few years until rust takes its inevitable toll, then pull the drivetrain and junk the shell. Maybe find something like that Eagle Summit from a couple weeks ago and do an AWD swap.
The Excalibur, though… It would be hilarious to open up the 454 (or swap it out entirely) and modernize the trans to turn it into an ostentatious sleeper.
I do not understand the appeal of neoclassical cars. I wonder if they made more sense in the ’70s when people were more familiar with the cars they are based on?
Like most people, I don’t know much about Mercedes-Benz products of the ’20s (or other prewar cars for that matter) and have no memories of these vehicles aside from seeing one or two in a museum. As a result, I see the Excalibur as an absurd art piece instead of an homage to a great car of the past. I think I might have a different opinion of this car if I grew up in a time when prewar cars were on the roads and not just in museums.
While I don’t get the Excalibur, I absolutely do not see the appeal of a high mileage Talon with rust holes for $7500. That price seems absurd. I’d rather have an absurd car than a car with an absurd price, so I voted for the Excalibur.
With the top on, the Excalibur reminds me of The Munsters. Or maybe The Monkees.
They were before the time of my awareness (this Excalibur is the same year of manufacture as me), but still not too uncommon when I was aware and they were always strange. These were the best of them (Clement, Gazelle, Panther, I’m sure some others) in both quality and convincing execution, though, for whatever that’s worth.
Stick > automatic
AWD > RWD
Whatever. Voted Excalibur anyway.
Lost me with the AWD > RWD. How am I supposed to hoon it around sideways if all 4 wheels are propelling me forward?
The Talon had enough power to get sideways on wet streets spinning all 4.
That Excalibur is so NOT me that I’d be funny to drive it around and mess with people. That Eagle turbo 4 with a 5 speed? Sign me up!
Today my free Internet play money goes to the garage queen I’d only roll out for the local car shows. That’s just so much automotive weirdness, it deserves to be shared.
Well I guessed one out of today’s two cars. After Torch’s grille counting, I was expecting the Eagle to go up against an Edsel. But good job, Mark, for picking something out of the ordinary (not that an Edsel is an everyday sight).
Speaking of Torch, VW Beetle taillights and front turn signals!
“In contrast to the many kit car manufacturers active at the same time, Excalibur did the thing right …”
Just have to point out, as others have, that Excaliburs are not kit cars. They were built with GM mechanicals, yes, but on bespoke frames and they were assigned unique identifying VINs.
I’m always astounded at how much these things go for, because I have a good enough sense of humor that driving one could be a hoot. But man not for what they want for them. Something’s propping up that market and I don’t know what it is, but they always seem to sell.
The Talon was by far the best-looking of the DSM triplets, and this one is even in the iconic Talon color scheme (have you ever seen one a different color?). It might be holey but you could have a lot of fun with it before you had to give up on it.
If cost was no object, that’s one of the nicer Series III’s I’ve seen, you could have some goofy fun with it and you would probably get your money back when done. But since cost is always an object (for me at least), the Talon is the way to go.
Had 2 talons when I was younger. Nothing but headaches with both. So of course I will take a third one!!!
A true DSM enthusiast
The rust killed it for me. Give me the wheezing V8, I can make the thing snort myself.
DSMs are bigger heartbreakers than cheap BMWs, and this one has some serious rust in the rockers based on the drivers side door picture. The Excalibur can be fixed with a spork and some duct tape, and ironically will be far more reliable. I’ll drive it to get a top hat, goggles, and a long coat for full effect.
Gimme the bird.
Go birds.
Here you go!
https://media.tenor.com/oa6h_UkK22QAAAAM/mister-rogers-finger.gif
Oh, that’s not what you meant… sorry!
Well, this one’s a little too easy for me. I happened to be doing reasonably well for myself (not married yet, no kids yet, no divorce yet, etc.) when the Talon was introduced, so I bought one in that color. Only car I’ve owned that had kids in other cars giving me the thumbs-up as I passed them. I had a blast with that thing and drove it into the ground. I guess I’d hope to arrest the rust by moving it here to Norcal and keep it going for as long as I could. I kinda get the Excalibur, but it’s just too much for me (even without the Talon as competition).
I voted for the Eagle Talon, it was a hot car in its day, and still looks sharp.
Excaliber…nope. The dimensions are all wrong, and it looks horrible.
Eagle Talon is one of the all-time greatest car names.
I’ve decided to go with the kit car since the Talon is not long for this world. Ideally I’d like to buy it for way less than $33k so I have some money to look for an upgrade from the gasping and gas guzzling Malaise era sadgasm that currently moves it. An LS swap would be the expected move, with good reason. A high revving turbo 4 gives you a quick car that will confuse the shit out of people when they hear it. Personally, I’d love to see it as an EV. It becomes a total villain car if it can silently creep around the town. Cruella DeVille would have gotten her puppy coat if those dogs hadn’t heard her approaching.
^^^This. The Eagle is Swiss cheese. It might be a hair from collapsing like a clown car under that plastic. It
I am also in on the V8. You can make a 454 absolutely bonkers in a weekend or two.
Completely agree! The Excalibur would make a great EV swap candidate. It’s already heavy with that smogger 454. Driving range probably wouldn’t take a hit, ironically.
Even if your EV swap reduced the range to nothing, it begs to be cruised around town at low speeds, anyway. Electric Excalibur would be awesome if I had enough money to spend on a weekend cruiser.