I remember seeing the first generation Prius in college and being impressed by the strange little gas sipper. Then, somewhere along the way, the appliance-like dustbuster second-gen car appeared and it felt like I was supposed to dislike it. In retrospect, that car was cool and I was the dork. I don’t think anyone views hybrids that way anymore, and it’s kind of amazing.
Obviously, I will keep beating the hybrids-are-good drum like Samantha Maloney, but it’s still amazing to me that there’s been such a turnaround. On the other end of the spectrum is Tesla, which seems to be getting a lift from China’s government to try to get more data out of the country. It might need that data because it’s facing a lawsuit over its full self-driving system.
Finally, we should find out today if the UAW is able to secure a win in Alabama for its unionization drive at the Mercedes plant there.
Happy Friday! I’m driving. a Mazda CX-70 today so I’m going to blast this out and go driving.
Hybrid Sales Are Like Whoa
Did hybrids get better or did all other cars get worse? I think the answer is: Yes. When the first round of hybrids came out there was such a focus on being miserly on fuel you ended up with some fairly hair-shirt cars like the Prius C. They were great for the environment, but not great to drive.
Somewhere along the way, thanks largely to CVT transmissions, most regular cars got significantly worse to drive as they got more efficient. As this was happening, hybrids got way better to drive. It’s my belief that the best car an average person can buy is a car/hatch/crossover with an eCVT, which offers the benefits of a CVT and a hybrid is better to drive than the average car. If someone has the ability to charge, then a PHEV or a range-extended hybrid is best.
Do people agree? People seem to agree. Here are some stats via S&P/Automotive News:
Combined, registrations of hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles rose 48 percent to 412,926 in the first quarter of this year compared with the same quarter a year earlier, according to S&P Global Mobility. Meanwhile, electric vehicle registrations grew 5.2 percent to 264,268.
Here’s more supporting evidence that Hybrids Are The Way:
Toyota’s approach is even paying off in environmentally friendly California, where it received criticism for offering only two fully electric vehicles.
In the first quarter, hybrid registrations from all automakers rose 53 percent from a year earlier, according to the California New Car Dealers Association, versus a 2.8 percent gain for battery-electric vehicles. Registrations for plug-in hybrids rose 9 percent. Market share for full EVs was little changed at 20.9 percent while hybrids and plug-in hybrids, combined, gained 4.6 points of share to 16.6 percent, the dealer association said.
Toyota is taking advantage of this shift to Tesla’s detriment. Largely thanks to its hybrid lineup, Toyota registrations rose about 9 percent while Tesla registrations fell nearly 8 percent. Toyota’s share rose to 16.4 percent, while Tesla edged lower to 11.6 percent in the nation’s top auto market.
That’s a big, big, big, big deal. California became Tesla-land and still feels that way, but it’s going backward.
Tesla Gets A Big Boost From Shanghai Data
Hey, Tesla, alright. It’s so rare I get to talk about Tesla…
Yesterday, The Morning Dump was all about how your car creates data and maybe you’d like to be able to trust where it goes. Specifically, we learned that the United States government doesn’t trust the Chinese government when it comes to exporting data.
Do you know who seems willing to let its data go? China. Specifically, Tesla has been lobbying China to allow it to export all of that sweet, sweet driving data so it can use its growing self-driving algorithm to improve Full-Self Driving.
Per Reuters:
The government of Shanghai, China’s market and business capital, has compiled a first batch of “ordinary data” in three sectors – intelligent and connected vehicles, mutual funds and biomedicine. These require the least regulation for data transfers, the government document says.
Under a one-year pilot project, companies registered in the city’s free-trade Lingang Area, where Tesla’s Shanghai factory is located, may transfer data on the list overseas without needing further security assessments, according to the document，which was shared with companies attending an event announcing the white list in Shanghai.
Tesla needs China and China needs Tesla, which is a big employer and an exporter. Also, when Tesla exports cars from China it’s an American brand, which helps work as a sort of trade beard for the country.
Tesla Is Going To Have To Face FSD Lawsuit
Tesla wants all that data because its “Full Self Driving” system is extremely not full self-driving, though it’s an impressive piece of technology if used correctly (which few people do!). The more data, in theory, the better it performs.
Legally, Tesla has great lawyers and has had a history of winning cases related to its wannabe autonomous driving system, but now it’s facing a real challenge.
Here’s the skinny from Bloomberg:
California resident Thomas LoSavio, who filed the complaint, says he bought a new Tesla in 2017 and paid an extra $8,000 for FSD. He alleged that statements by Tesla and Musk led him to believe that his car would have self-driving technology within a “reasonably short period.” But by 2022, Tesla hadn’t produced “anything even remotely approaching a fully self-driving car,” according to his complaint.
LoSavio brought the complaint on behalf of anyone who bought or leased a new Tesla vehicle with Autopilot, Enhanced Autopilot or FSD since 2016.
Without ruling on the merits of his claims, the judge said LoSavio sufficiently alleged certain 2016 statements were misleading, such as all “Tesla vehicles produced in our factory now have full self-driving hardware,” and that the cars would be able to drive themselves cross country “by the end of next year without the need for a single touch.”
CEO Elon Musk is, more than anything, a great salesman. We’ll have to see if his grandiose statements come back to haunt him in this case as, I’m sure, many people would like their $8k back.
Will The UAW Prevail In Alabama Today?
A few years ago I’d have told you that the chance that a United Auto Workers union drive would be successful in Alabama was slim-to-none. Now, after succeeding in Tennessee, the UAW will find out if its string of wins is enough to persuade workers in the South if they should join the union.
The voting is about to end and we’ll know what happens later today. Here’s a key bit from Al.com:
Wafa Orman, associate dean at the University of Alabama at Huntsville’s College of Business, pointed out that one strategy in Alabama over the years has been for employers to shut down already-unionized or potentially unionizing workplaces, and then sometimes reopen with non-union workers.
“It does appear that the governor and perhaps some other businesses are nervous that if wages and the cost of employment rises enough in Alabama, that will ruin the advantage that Alabama has currently over other states and employers to come here,” she said. “They’re concerned about that advantage that we have not being quite as large as it is right now.”
This is why this is such a big deal for southern governors. There’s been a huge number of new car plants opening up in the South, largely from foreign automakers, but if the % of margin that’s saved by lower wages goes away then it’s easy to see a future where those jobs go somewhere else.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
I obviously love Willie Nelson, because I’m from Texas and also he’s amazing. Newcomer alt/queer country crooner Orville Peck is also great. The two of them singing about cowboys who are secretly fond of one another is just remarkable. Please enjoy. What did you think all those saddles and boots was about?
The Big Question
Am I wrong? Is there a better car for the average 2.5-person family than a hybrid crossover?
Yes, a hybrid wagon or van are far better.
I’m going to take your question literally, and suggest a 911 as the best car. The 1/2 person would easily fit in the back seat.
Jeep CJ-7. Enough room in the backseat for the brat and enough scenery to stay distracted. Need more room for luggage? Hook up a small trailer.
EV crossover is where it’s at for most suburban folks with a single family home if they can swing all the ancillary one time costs. Room enough for kids and dogs, eliminates time spent at gas stations or waiting for oil changes, okay enough infrastructure to go on long trips and cheaper to operate than any hybrid.
Getting the L2 charger installed is still a low 4 figure proposition if a professional installs it. Which a lot of EVSE warranties require. Tesla sure does. Yeah, it can likely be rolled into the vehicle loan. But that makes any savings that much further out.
So, EV if it’s doable, hybrid if it’s not yet feasible to go full EV.
One of the bigger complaints about at-home EV charging is supposed lack of viable off-street parking. The DOE found 66% of owner occupied, single family homes have a garage or carport. Not just off-street parking, but covered off-street. According to a Statista chart, 48% of car owners surveyed have access to private, powered off street parking of some kind.
According to NREL, about 85% of single family detached homes have driveways.
You do not need a roof to charge a car. Speaking from first-hand experience, the plugs are weatherproof, and with adequately-rated cords and NEMA enclosures, virtually any driveway is a viable charging location — even without an electrician.
The barrier to entry for charging is way overstated by critics, imo. It would be ideal to have an L2 charger hard mounted to your garage wall? Absolutely. But I think the vast majority of homeowners/renters could get away with a portable L2 charger and some kind of exterior 30A service. Even regular 120V/20A service would do fine if they were good about staying topped off and didn’t mind the occasional public charger visit after a long day of driving.
That assumes people are good about stuff. Not the lazy yahoos we are. Asking someone to spend 20 minutes charging after a long day is like asking the average person to name five capitol cities in Europe. It sounds easy but vanishingly few will actually do it unless it’s absolutely necessary.
That’s an odd comparison. Are you forced to name 5 European capital cities frequently?
We have a couple folks in my neighborhood that have plug in EVs who charge while parked in the street. One has a long cord, run from the house, the other has a post with a 220v plug in their lawn by the road. Seems to work fine for them.
I appear to be in the minority, but it’d be fun to talk about more than the one question at the end of the article here.
So the fast rising popularity of HEVs and legacy automakers slowing their BEV investments to pivot towards PHEVs is why this guy is clutching his pearls.
https://www.threads.net/@lanceulanoff/post/C6mUbknPcYc
Wow, that article is 7 days old and already hasn’t aged well.
Is there a good goddamn reason why I have a non-closeable video mini-window on my screen? Was the auto-playing video just not bad enough? WTF?
On Safari Ipad, I requested the mobile site to remove that annoying unclose-able video
Do those that complain about this just not use an adblocker? Get your browsers together, for crying out loud. I didn’t even know this was a problem.
Somehow this is the only thing my ad-blocker DOESN’T block. I turned of javascript, and this stops it, but that also kills 75% of the rest of the website.
I could understand if it was an ad video, but it’s not. it’s an autopian video. This doesn’t make sense to have this constantly playing. It’s a pity really.
I use ublock origin and yeah I have to turn javascript back on to post this comment.
See above, lol
I just used ublock origin and used the block feature frame. Javascript still on, no autoplay video.
I do wish I could allow the ads through though, because I want to support the site but don’t want to pay $70 to do so….
Use nomovdo extension.
Many of us are on work computers that don’t allow ad-blockers or anything else to be downloaded or added on, but continue with your holier than thou attitude I guess.
I am on a work computer, and while it is mostly locked down I can still add extensions.
Congrats, I would not consider that typical.
As an IT person, I’m somewhat surprised ad-blocking isn’t already deployed globally.
Ads are essentially just a malware vector at this point. They aren’t worth the trouble.
There’s an error with it not closing, we removed it until it’s fixed.
In hindsight, I sound WAY more whiny than was justified. It was just making the article difficult to read. Thank you for the response and all the hand work y’all do for this awesome site!
I’m known at work as “a car guy”. A manager came to me asking what car he should get. He’s coming off of a Honda Fit. I thought about it for about 30 seconds and realized that the only answer was the Prius Prime.
He asked me why, and I said “Have you seen the new ones? That shit is on fire!”
I showed him a pic, and he agreed. The Prius Prime slaps. I’d buy one if I could afford it.
I’d flip a coin between prime and AWD…
Shoot, I thought the prime was awd… that’s a shame 😛
Family of three here, and I’m planning a camping trip with our RAV4 Prime next weekend…it’s pretty tough to beat. Electric range between 40-55 miles, depending on the season & weather, covers nearly all normal driving. Typical 3-5 hour road trips still get 35MPG+, with no charging stops necessary.
AWD, fast as hell, swallows up most stuff pretty easily, handles a roof rack/box just fine, and can tow up to 2500lbs.
Is a fairly ubiquitous appliance (among regular R4’s)? Sure. Anything special / interesting to drive? The sport mode w/ both electric motors & the gas engine going is pretty fun…but no, not really.
Charges up just fine overnight on 120v (which is nice, as I can use our solar setup) or quicker with 240v (limited to 3.3kw is a flaw though).
Bought it a few years back when it was still eligible for the tax credit, and it was under $40k.
I’d say the maverick is close (I owned a XL hybrid for a bit), and while the bed is useful/handy, it’s not as reliable, cheaper/more spartan inside, lacks the plug-in, and has a trade off between AWD/Towing on the ecoboost vs hybrid efficiency.
IMO a RAV4 Prime or hybrid is the perfect transportation module for 90% of drivers. If I’m honest with myself, it suits my uses a helluva lot better than my 4Runner.
If they’d just make a freaking 4Runner or Tacoma Prime, I’d buy it yesterday. Even with much less range – it would be perfect for my needs (electric to handle the basic daily drive, hardly ever more than 20-30 miles at a time) and not having to worry about charging when I want to take longer trips to do 4Runner/tacoma things.
The RAV4 Prime is one of the best PHEVs ever made. It should be the best-selling plug-in out there, except that Toyota stubbornly refuses to make enough of them. The RAV4 Prime sold 26k in 2023, compared to 33k for the Ioniq 5, 38k for the ID.4, and 41k for the Mach-e.
Either their marketing strategy is asleep at the wheel, or Toyota is dead-set on disproving their own claims that PHEVs are cheaper and more scalable with today’s resources. Frustrating either way.
PHEV AWD SIENNA. PHEV AWD SIENNA. PHEV AWD SIENNA. PHEV AWD SIENNA. PHEV AWD SIENNA. PHEV AWD SIENNA.
The Prius Prime, RAV4 Prime, and PHEV Sienna definitely seem like the obvious choices, depending on the size vehicle you want/need. I just don’t see anything that beats them for price, practicality, reliability, etc.
ETA: someone below mentioned Maverick Hybrid, so now there’s a pickup on my list. 🙂
Ford Maverick Hybrid. Hauling a bike or several in most non-pickups is a PITA, and while it sucks that the Maverick is stuck with a short bed, if you put on one of those tailgate protectors you can easily fit 3+ bikes in the bed.
I say this because when I was a kid a bike greatly improved my freedom of movement and allowed me to go see my friends across town without having to bother my parents for a ride.
Honestly a little pickup offers a ton of options that a CUV really can’t. Sure you can put a bike carrier on it, for extra cost and extra time wasted dealing with it, same goes for a cargo trailer with the same payload and space capacity as the Maverick Hybrid bed.
When I was a kid I rode in the back of my mom’s extended cab third gen Mazda B2000 pickup, and since mini Trucks like that one are no longer sold new in the US and the authorities make a much bigger deal over child seats you’re basically stuck with getting a 4 door short bed pickup if you want something like that.
That all being said if Toyota ever makes their ‘Stout’ pickup it should almost certainly be better than the Maverick. I’d much rather have a Maverick with the Toyota Hybrid Drivetrain including the Air cooled battery pack (vs the Maverick Hybrid’s liquid cooled one).
I have a truck and I still use a hitch mounted bike rack. Takes 30 seconds to slide it in and you don’t have to worry about lifting bikes into the bed. I imagine it works the same with an SUV as long as you don’t need to get into the boot.
To each their own.
Based on the first sub-head I was really hoping the ‘listening to’ today was going to be “Whoa!” by Black Rob. The only gangsta rap song that I know of that prominently features the violin. Plus it includes some legit car-related lyrics. Also, the music video featured Diddy (was he calling himself that back then? I can’t keep track…) driving a Peterbilt and doing stunts, so how can you lose? 🙂
A hybrid wagon or minivan would likely be better, depending how you want to use space. A PHEV with enough battery to take the spawn to their practices, clubs, and events would be even better.
But, yeah, given the current availability, the crossover is probably the buy. There are more of them at a wider variety of price points and sizes.
It’s almost as if people have been saying for years that they wanted PHEVs but the automakers all thought they knew better than their customers.
It seems a function of the part of our nature as Americans that seemingly always wants the latest, shiniest things. This has gotten so built in to our culture that our firms sometimes get blinded by that shine perhaps.
So is that why Ford sells polished turds…
GM doesn’t even bother with the polish
If there was a decent PHEV minivan out there right now (you listening, Sienna?) we’d buy it. My family of 5 + large dog have outgrown the Mazda5 so we’re just taking 2 cars now for the few times the whole crew + dog need to go.
100% agree. We have an older sienna and I would love to get into the new one, which we got 33 mpg from when we rented it for a week, but a PHEV would be even better!
If Stellantis could just fix the reliability issues the the Pacifica, it’d be so good. The saying, “Whish in one hand, shit in the other. See what fills up first.” comes to mind here.
Oh Stellantis is reliable, reliably awful. They can’t figure out how to make a decent manual trans for a wrangler, I have very little hope for anything else. That’s probably the only company out there that I automatically rule out buying anything made by any of their brands.
Ditto.
Would a CX-90 PHEV work? It’s no minivan but it might have more room than the Mazda5 and you get that sweet EV range for commuting
Wasn’t aware of that, thanks! My wife doesn’t really want the Sienna and would rather have the RAV-4. Maybe something like the CX-90 is a decent compromise. My oldest is 16 and getting his license so we won’t be carting him around much longer
Lol. You’ll get out of carting him as often, but trust me; you’ll still cart him and he’ll bring more stuff.
Problem is the premium to get the PHEV is pretty huge for Toyota/Lexus anyway. Their hybrids tend to be a modest premium over the gas model. I love the idea of a PHEV, but there is no point if the math doesn’t work to save money.
Agree. I was surprised by the price difference between the RAV-4 hybrid vs.prime. It would be cool to do all of those short trip family errands on the battery but probably wouldn’t save much money in the end.
Yes you are, but not wildly off the mark. When my wife and I just had one kid, we went camping and all sorts of places in an old accord. There is no need for a crossover for most people, especially if in a family that small. A camry or prius is a better fit, and uses less gas. Even a corolla hatch would be great, but I do not see why people think they need the tall hatchbacks when a regular one will work great.
Personally, I find getting in and out of a CUV easier than getting in and out of a sedan (so do like 95% of old people, apparently). I switched from Pontiac Vibe to RAV4 almost immediately after my first kid because it was so hard to get the infant car seat in and out of the lower car. The CUV hatch typically has more cargo space than a sedan as well.
We switched from a Vibe to a Saturn Vue for the same reason. So much more comfortable and easier… even if it was not a whole lot bigger.
I, a somewhat older person, have trouble getting in and out of CUV’s. Long torso, I think, as I have to bend extremely over to get out of the tiny hole that is the door’s opening.
Still have my 2003 Matrix, which is useful for hauling a lot of stuff at a time. I stuffed a 6-foot high wine refrigerator in it, and closed the hatch. (Driver’s seat was fully forward, so it made driving and shifting a bit awkward…)
I have a good friend who has been talking about buying an EV for at least the last three years. Got the house wired up for a level 2 charger, just waiting for a suitable, affordable EV to emerge on the market. Two weeks ago I got a message raving about the PHEV crossover they picked up, touting it had all the benefits of the EV they wanted without any of the range limits or, as they put it, “crap Tesla interior”. I have long been on team hybrid, and a PHEV is on the top of my list as well when it comes time to replace the family minivan.
Rav4 Prime or what did they pick up? I would love a PHEV minivan, but will not by a Chrysler product, so I just hope Toyota goes for it with the next Sienna. I love my current Sienna, and have rented the new one a couple times and been very impressed, so a PHEV Sienna is a no brainer for my family, but they don’t make it yet.
They got a PHEV Hyundai Santa Fe. So far, it seems like a perfect fit for them, as they live within 5 miles of all the places they go on a daily basis, and if they venture beyond that it is to the nearest large city which is a 200+ mile round trip drive. Battery for the normal day-to-day stuff, and no range anxiety when they have to go to the big city (unfortunately for medical treatment).
A PHEV Sienna would certainly be on our list, especially if they offered it with AWD. Our house is on a series of hills that in the snowy winter months our current minivan sometimes can’t make even on snow tires, so a crossover is most likely what we will get next since it is the only offering currently on tap with both features we want.
I’m sure it would be AWD, they have the eAWD or whatever they call it now with the motor on the rear axle, it would be dumb not to offer that on a potential prime version.
I had a similar thought, and I am hoping you end up being correct.
I live near Detroit in a Chrysler HQ adjacent suburb. Lots of PHEV Pacificas and everyone seems to be disappointed with them. MPG not great and charging is a pain.
Amazing how such a great minivan can be such a crappy hybrid.
The hybrid Siennas on the other hand are cherished.
I only have one data point but the person I know who has the PHEV Pacifica loves it. Has driven for “free” from owned solar panels for 60k+ miles for all around town kid drop off/pick up and shopping. Fills the tank about once a quarter when they use it for road trips – TX, FL, NY, etc. Have a decent amount of 4 kid abuse miles and all issues to this point have been self inflicted.
Are half people allowed to vote, because I’m not sure where I fall on the 2.5 person family chart?
What’s better than a hybrid crossover? A hybrid estate car.
Right? Crossovers are about the most useless vehicles out there. Let’s combine the worst part of sedans and SUVs and somehow they’ll sell like hot cakes. Just buy a sedan. (yes, I understand most people are not and car manufacturers are making it increasingly difficult to do so *cough* Ford, Subaru, Chevy *cough*)
On this side of the pond we have several, Corolla Touring Hybrid, Cee’d Tourer PHEV, Leon Sportstourer PHEV, 308 SW PHEV,…
Hybrids should’ve standardized in appliance cars a decade ago. There’s literally no downside at this point. They’re better for the environment, better for your wallet, they’re usually quieter, and at this point they usually drive better than their ICE counterparts. The hybrid version of the RAV4, CRV, etc. are actually faster than their pure ICE counterparts…and the Toyota/Honda hybrid systems are so well sorted at this point that they’re as reliable as their normal ICE cars.
Hybrids are also cool now, as you suggest…and they’re no longer penalty boxes that sacrifice absolutely everything else for fuel economy. There’s just no reason for any appliance car to not be electrified at this point. Toyota and Honda, as usual, get it.
Anyway, if you don’t love Willie Nelson then you’re wrong. He’s a national treasure. I’m also a big Orville Peck fan. I saw him on the Bronco tour in 2022 and am seeing him again in the next few weeks. I kind of prefer his earlier stuff for how raw and out there it is…combining country and post punk elements with a proudly queer lyrics and his troubadour masked psychedelic cowboy act was just so goddamn fresh and interesting when he first came on the scene.
I think he’s made the right choice for his career, which has more or less been to settle into more of a traditional country star role. I also think his more recent stuff is still really good, it’s just a bit more palatable for the masses. He is a great performer though. Definitely see him live while he’s still in medium sized venues.
Anyway tell me how the CX70 is. My wife and I were excited about it as an option for her next car but it sure just seems like a CX90 with the third row removed and nothing else. Mazda had a real chance to differentiate it and chose not to do anything at all…at least on paper.
Honda is hybrid-only in Europe and Toyota almost, so there is a point.
Spot on both for the hybrid commentary and Orville Peck. Will be catching him also in a few weeks for the second time. We’ll be contentedly driving our RAV4 Hybrid there
I saw Orville open for Lucero in Denver as he was coming up. Blew away Lucero, and as a tattooed male of a certain age I love Lucero.
We then went to the second show of his post covid tour in Casper, WY in July 2021. I was worried we were going to get hate-crimed but it turned out to be such a rad show.
Test drove a CX-90. Very nice, but man that thing is huge. Way bigger than our old cx-9 or current Q7.
I mean, we have a baby due in July, a dog that has some significant needs, and we want to have a second kid in the not too distant future. We’re going to need space…any my wife is not really a car person, so her main requirements are she wants vehicle that she won’t ever have to worry about that’s hybrid. She also HATES vans, and although I’m working on it I don’t think she’ll budge.
We also don’t want to spend on a luxury brand when the car is going to be destroyed by kids. Thus, we’re interested in mainly Japanese stuff. I have a feeling we’ll wind up with a Highlander Hybrid, but obviously I find the mission of a less sterile driving experience that the Mazdas embark on quite appealing.
Plus all the CX90s/CX70s are hybrids. Even though mild hybrid/straight 6 ones get really good fuel economy for what they are. I personally like the Q7, but I’ve had dreadful experiences with the EA888, so we’d have to splurge on the turbo V6…and for a car that’s going to get ruined anyway and likely be a much more intensive ownership experience, it wouldn’t really make sense for us at this stage.
“Did hybrids get better or did all other cars get worse? I think the answer is: Yes. When the first round of hybrids came out there was such a focus on being miserly on fuel you ended up with some fairly hair-shirt cars like the Prius C. They were great for the environment, but not great to drive.”
That’s true for Priuses (Prii?) but you’re also ignoring some other early hybrid attempts that drove okay but barely delivered on the promise of better fuel economy. My wife had a 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid (which her friend is still driving with well over 200K miles) and it would get a best of like 24 MPG. Paying a premium for that today wouldn’t make sense, but most of them today get better MPGs than that, so the premium is more likely worth it.
Regarding those older Priuses – I’ve had a Prius V for 12 years or so – that thing is honestly a pretty amazing piece of machinery for it’s time.
I’ve had my 2012 Prius v since late 2019, and feel similarly. 40 mpg for that much space? Absolute win. Sad that it looks like, if it were to be totaled, a newer Venza is probably the closest interior-wise, but with a hit to fuel economy.
That’s still a decent boost to economy for the time. 24 is below the revised EPA estimate for the hybrid that year, but if we assume the combined 19 mpg for a regular 2006 Highlander V6 4WD, that’s still ~20% improvement.
Not to take away from your point about the initial purchase premium though, which was sometimes larger at the time even not adjusting for inflation. You couldn’t read a review of a hybrid without some mention of the time it would take to pay back the cost with fuel savings. A lot of hybrids were dedicated models with more standard equipment vs. the rest of the line, so that exacerbated some of it. Ex. a 2007 Camry hybrid was 8k more than a base Camry but ~2k compared to the XLE it was equipped like. But the Highlander was at least a $4k premium regardless. Now the premium is less and the efficiency gains are greater.
Any little bit helps. So long as my kids can fish and gawp at the wonder of the seas as we know them.
Good lord! you didn’t drive a Prius into the ocean, did you!?
Nah lol. My granddad was a big fisherman and I spent a lot of time with him out there, so I’m hypersensitive to ‘save the oceans’.
Prius is good, Prius is great, Prius is wonderful.
Man, I finally got to really dig into the new Prime recently, including how its battery pack was laid out.
I was worried I wouldn’t be able to swap out pack modules in the Prime, but that was laid to rest pretty quickly.
It’s legitimately a car you could operate for 30 years with a single long-weekend pack rebuild.
I think a minivan or crew cab truck are better for most families depending what kind of activities they like to do, but it’s hard to say a crossover is a terrible choice for anyone, so in that respect it’s probably on average best.
Note that I’m answering the question for a 2.5 *child* family. If you actually meant a 2.5 *person* family, I’m obligated to say the most space efficient way to transport 3 people is a McLaren F1.
Depending on what half of a person you are getting, an ambulance or a hearse is probably better for a 2.5 person family.
I kind of agree except, for example, the Sienna is like 2 feet longer than the RAV4, so if you’re size-sensitive the minivan might not be the best choice. I wish there was an actual mini van. Something like a Mazda5 but with modern features and a hybrid drivetrain.
My kingdom for a smaller minivan. It is bonkers to me that, not only have all mainstream minivans standardized to a gigantic size, but even the small cargo van category has completely disappeared from the USA.
The Mazda5 was always a little too small for my needs, but something about the size of the final-generation Mazda MPV would be perfect.
I will join you Villagers on a Quest for smaller vans! For which we will find none…
I get it though, if you could only make one type of van and wanted a chance at grabbing a piece of Chrysler’s pie, you had to copy the format that sold. But Chrysler always seemed to do better selling bigger vehicles at smaller car prices, who wouldn’t just step up to the Grand versions for a small premium? Eventually they gave up on the short-length van completely when they found people bought them because of the cheaper price, not so much the smaller size.
My family looked at the 5 but it was still a bit tight in space and refinement coming out of actual larger minivan. Ended up with a Rondo actually. I always hoped the Zafira or the Grand C-Max or Honda Stream would come over; I figured the “medium” size like that MPV was a lost cause by then, but there were plenty on offer globally that would have been ideal too, like the final MPV/Mazda8 they didn’t offer here, the global Odyssey, Ford’s S-Max or Galaxy.
I was so looking forward to the Grand C-Max that was initially promised, but then withdrawn. I eventually ended up with the only MPV (meaning the category, not Mazda) that was left in the USA — the Fiat 500L. Probably my favorite car I’ve ever owned. The only reason I ever traded it was because I needed just a bit more cargo space. But I was able to haul a surprising amount in its split-level cargo area.
Yeah, the 500L and the regular C-Max we did get were kind of the same story, slightly not quite big enough for where the volume might have been, where compact crossovers had become well established at that point.
The Rondo was deceptively large inside too, it could have used a bit more finesse that I assume came in the following generation that Canada got. Canada always took to the segment better, that just reminded me about the Chevy Orlando too.
I was excited for the Prius v, I’d count as the final real offering in compact MPVs here, but it was a little pricey for what it was and for some of the features, often locked into the top trim. Or I suppose the passenger versions of the Transit Connect, but that was definitely a van with seats – certainly spacious but not the most comfortable and not really a value against even actual minivans.
“A van with seats” is exactly what it was. What a major disappointment the passenger TC was when I saw it at the auto show. Even worse, our passenger version of the Metris was not the same vehicle as the one in the EU. Ours was likewise a cargo van with seats, but Europe got a fully up-contented passenger wagon.
“Am I wrong? Is there a better car for the average 2.5-person family than a hybrid crossover?”
Yes, A PHEV minivan.
A minivan is usually overkill for 2.5 people.
I briefly owned a Sienna after having my 2nd kid. We were a family of 4 plus a large dog and I didn’t know what to do with all that space.
Perfect for the potentially growing family, though. makes making the next half-person a little easier (though, it was the same process as the first one, usually).
And a crossover isn’t?
Just buy the damn Prius.
It isn’t, because not every crossover is a large one that seats up to 8.
The dead horse has been pulverized into dust at this point. We all worship at the altar of the van. I get it. But I have a headache at this point lol.
Minivans are awesome but not so mini anymore. I saw a new Odyssey parked next to an early ’80s E-150 recently and they didn’t look that far apart size-wise. So I agree that it’s overkill for 2.5 people.
While I would love a PHEV minivan that is not built by Stellantis, I have a family of 5. for a smaller family this does not make sense, and they would be better served by a Prius or any other hybrid sedan/hatch.