Home » Everyone Seems To Hate Stellantis Right Now

Everyone Seems To Hate Stellantis Right Now

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The modern car industry requires an incredible amount of coordination, not just internally but from suppliers, workers, governments, and dealers. Just one car is touched by thousands of people on its journey from an idea to a product you can buy. While all the aforementioned groups work together in order to create a product, they don’t always see eye-to-eye. We should all credit Stellantis for doing the impossible and uniting these forces for a common cause: Kvetching about Stellantis.

I’m starting out today’s Morning Dump with a little hyperbole, but only a little. United Auto Workers President Shawn Fain made a speech in which he talked about a potential strike and drank from a mug labeled “Boss’s Tears,” ended by marveling that all these disparate groups agreed that Stellantis is a mess.

Vidframe Min Top
Vidframe Min Bottom

You know who else agrees the company isn’t perfect? Stellantis. Let’s travel to Italy to hear the Stellantis side of it.

All of this is hard, and the uncertainty of what different governments are going to do doesn’t help. German automakers feel this most acutely, and the warning from China that these tariffs aren’t going to help cooperation might make for more sleepless nights in Wolfsburg.

UAW: We Might Strike Stellantis

I’ve embedded this video from Stellantis above because it opens with a slickly produced campaign film for the UAW that looks almost good enough to be an SEC football hype video. It ends with Shawn Fain at Solidarity House in Detroit clowning Stellantis while drinking from this mug:

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Shawn Fain Bosses Tears

The message of Fain is that “we have to save [Stellantis] from itself.”

All of this goes to the perceived threat, from the UAW, that Stellantis is going to back down from its plan to build the Dodge Durango at the Jefferson North plant and instead shift production to Windsor Assembly in Ontario, Canada. One of the commitments that Stellantis made during last year’s contract negotiations, according to Fain, was the right to strike over product plans. Specifically, Fain says that Stellantis agreed to $19 billion as the amount of product and investment, with specific plants and products listed in the contract.

According to Fain, Stellantis is trying to push its product plan with deals outside of the current contract, thus causing a need to renegotiate (Basically, Fain is saying that if the agreed upon production plan (i.e. build Durango here in 2026) gets delayed a couple of years, by the time that production would start the contract would be up). What’s Stellantis say?

From the Detroit Free Press:

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The company has confirmed no such thing. However, Shawn Fain continues to allege that the company has violated the contract, but to date has provided no data or information to back up his claims. Instead, he continues to willfully damage the reputation of the company with his public attacks which is helpful to no one including his members,” according to the statement provided by [Stellantis] spokeswoman Jodi Tinson. “We would all be better served if these issues were addressed across the table with productive, respectful and forward-looking dialogue. A strike does not benefit anyone — our customers, our dealers, the community and, most importantly, our employees.”

Fain ended by saying that the problem “Isn’t market conditions when it’s your CEO draining the value of the company for short-term gain,” adding that “Carlos Tavares is the problem, and it isn’t just us saying it… Stellantis is being sued by their own shareholders, they’re being sued by their suppliers, they’re facing a national strike action from the UAW, and even the national dealer network is sounding the alarm.”

That last bit is a reference to dealers calling the current condition at Stellantis “a disaster” and pointing the finger at Tavares. Fain ends by pointing out that “It’s not every day that we, the auto workers, are on the same side as the dealers, the same side as the suppliers, and the same side as the shareholders, but today is that day.”

He’s not wrong there. Suppliers are indeed suing Stellantis. Dealers are mad. Shareholders filed a lawsuit last month taking aim at the company for poor performance. The vibes are bad.

Stellantis: Ok, We Are Not Doing A Great Job Advertising Maserati

Maserati Mc20 1

I had the chance to drive the new Maserati MC20 around Pebble Beach last month and, though it was a brief drive, I thought it was a great product. I need to spend a little more time with it, but my first impression is that this is an attractive and unique alternative to just buying a 911.

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This is not a thought shared by consumers, it seems, as there’s been a huge decline in global sales at the brand. In total, shipments dropped to just 6,500 in the first half of the year, down 58% from the more than 15,000 units moved in the first half of 2023.

What’s the deal? The folks over at Motor1 Italy went to an event and got an explanation from Tavares himself:

“With Maserati, we have the right cars and we have the right technologies. We can offer thermal or 100% electric luxury sports cars. If sales are sluggish right now, it is a matter of marketing. We have also improved a lot on the quality front, but now we need to work on marketing. We lack prospects and leads, we need to reach potential customers and deliver the right message for the right positioning.”

I agree with his analysis. I want Maserati to continue to exist and I often like some of the brand’s cars, but I’m not sure what a Maserati buyer is or why someone would make the choice to become a Maserati fan.

Carlos Tavares: The Auto Industry Is In A Survival Mode

Lovitz Snl Meloni Tavares
Source: SNL

At that same event, Carlos Tavares, pictured above, tried to explain to reporters why everything is so hard these days:

“The automotive industry is in a kind of survival mode: we are beyond fear. We cannot complain, we cannot hesitate, we have to concentrate our efforts to stay alive. To stay alive we need to achieve cost parity between electric cars and thermal cars, but another chapter opens here. We operate in a geographical region animated by chaos and it is difficult to make predictions. Governments have decided to reduce purchase incentives and this is holding back the market.”

Again, I don’t entirely disagree with the analysis here, and I love the translation, especially the “animated by chaos” bit. It’s true! Chaos animates everything around us and governments have made it hard to know what happens next, especially with suddenly vanishing incentives that are then coupled with higher trade barriers.

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[Ed Note: “Thermal cars” is almost certainly the product of translating from Italian, as I’ve never heard of ICEs called “thermal cars” here in the U.S. -DT]. 

I do not envy anyone who has to decide what to do in these situations.  That all being said, I don’t think constantly making your partners mad is necessarily the best way forward. In addition to some shareholders, a lot of workers, dealers, and suppliers, the company always seems to be in a tiff with local governments.

Tavares is entirely correct that all major automakers are in a fight for survival, but I disagree with his apparent belief that this means you have to literally fight with everyone. Annihilation is a strategy that sometimes works, though given the choice I think cooperation is the more successful bet.

China: It Would Be A Shame If We Made It Hard To Import Your BMWs

Bmw Flagship Store Launched On Jd E Commerce Platform
Source: depositphotos.com

I’ve explored the back-and-forth between Germany, the rest of Europe, and China before, so I’ll spare you the extensive rehash. Let’s just say that China and Germany have a longstanding relationship that both seem to agree is important.

The large tariffs against Chinese imports by the EU are causing a rift in that relationship and a warning from China.

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Per Reuters:

China’s commerce minister said the European Union’s imposition of tariffs on electric vehicles (EV) will “seriously interfere” with trade and investment cooperation and hurt both China and Germany.

In talks on Tuesday with German Vice Chancellor and Economic Minister Robert Habeck, Wang Wentao said he hoped to reach a solution in line with World Trade Organisation rules as soon as possible, and avoid the escalation of China-EU economic and trade frictions, according to a statement released by China’s Ministry of Commerce early on Wednesday.

Germany has the biggest proportional share of votes in the EU so it often can get its way which, in this case, seems to be a softening of anti-Chinese tariffs.

What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD

That’s right it’s “Firestarter” from The Prodigy the way it’s meant to be heard: as an instrumental track on the game Wipeout for Playstation.

The Big Question

Is the Fed gonna cut interest rates 25 or 50 basis points? We’ll talk about it tomorrow so place your guess below.

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Josh Frantz
Josh Frantz
2 months ago

“Everyone seems to hate Stellantis right now”… as theres not much to like currently coming from them, this checks out.

Local CDJR has some V6 300’s rotting on their lot for $43k. Or a $48k Hornet if you’re feeling silly about your money. Actually that Wrangler Sahara for $61k is a screamin deal.

Last edited 2 months ago by Josh Frantz
Bearddevil
Bearddevil
2 months ago

That Audi in the next story is definitely a “thermal car”…

Manwich Sandwich
Manwich Sandwich
2 months ago

“Carlos Tavares: The Auto Industry Is In A Survival Mode”
Noooo… it’s Stellantis that is in Survival Mode.

And that’s because of them continuing the pattern set by FCA of discontinuing product without having a replacement ready as well as other short term thinking… not to mention throwing good money after bad trying to make the Fiat brand work in North America.

TheDrunkenWrench
TheDrunkenWrench
2 months ago

I want to see 50bpts, cause that’ll motivate the Bank of Canada to continue cutting our rates more aggressively, so I can get a good finance deal by year’s end.

Rob Schneider
Rob Schneider
2 months ago

My bet is on .25.

As to why: Trump’s screaming for no cut, as he wants to keep harping on interest rates and affordability for campaign purposes (okay, screaming might be an exaggeration, but he did call for current rates to be left alone because any drop now would play into Biden, er, Kamala’s hands), and a half point would be a bit strong considering we’re not quite to the 2% inflation target. (It’s at 2.2%, last I heard.). So, right in the middle.

More will likely be coming, though, as they try to navigate us through a soft landing.

But hey, what do I know? To paraphrase the old TV commercials, I’m not an economist, I just play one in the peanut gallery.

V10omous
V10omous
2 months ago
Reply to  Rob Schneider

I thought you were most known for playing a carrot.

Rob Schneider
Rob Schneider
2 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

I was totally unfamiliar with that South Park episode.

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
2 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

He was ok as a carrot, but I think his work as a stapler is vastly underrated.

Col Lingus
Col Lingus
2 months ago
Reply to  Rob Schneider

But when was the last time you stayed at a Holiday Inn?

And .25 cut is right on.

Last edited 2 months ago by Col Lingus
Rob Schneider
Rob Schneider
2 months ago
Reply to  Rob Schneider

Point 5.

And that’s why I’m restricted to the peanut gallery.

Icouldntfindaclevername
Icouldntfindaclevername
2 months ago

I think the Chair will do .25 for everyone to calm down a little. The Gov will insist on another .25, but the Chair will wait until Nov. and do .50 to jack with the election.

Canopysaurus
Canopysaurus
2 months ago

Tavares and StillAin’tBliss are frantically rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic with nary a Carpathia in sight. It’s evident Carlos has exceeded his Peter Principle threshold.

re: the Fed interest rate change; most think the Fed is already delinquent in cutting the rate as a cooling labor market has picked up speed. I predict the Fed will go with a half percent cut vs. a quarter

Last edited 2 months ago by Canopysaurus
LMCorvairFan
LMCorvairFan
2 months ago

Seems to me that Chrysler (Stellantis in this case) loses the plot, lurches into the ditch, pisses off everyone and nearly loses the company. Happened in the 50s, 60’s, 70s, 80s, 90’s, 2000’s, a d now the 2020’s. Maybe it’s time to take the old dog out behind the barn and put him down for good. If the company cannot establish and maintain a competent exec office and board to run the enterprise, why the hell should it exist.

Lockleaf
Lockleaf
2 months ago

I’m more of a Dragula while playing Sled Storm kind of playstation guy 😀

In other news, I just now read an article regarding the Jeep CEO’s plan to turn things around. He is quoted in the article as saying something I found to be very interesting.

“For Jeep to lose Jeep Cherokee…and Jeep Renegade has been an important hit to us. Our market coverage declined from an average 80% to 45%.”

For Jeep to lose….vehicles. He is denying culpability in the terrible product planning that dumped vehicles out of their roster before they had anything ready to fill the gaps. Is that because this is corporate double speak, avoiding blame that lays on him? Or is this actually a subtle stab at Stellantis for taking those models from Jeep?

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
2 months ago

So that’s what they meant by “Sam’s Hot Car Lot” in Reservoir Dogs. TIL!

Church
Church
2 months ago

That’s right it’s “Firestarter” from The Prodigy the way it’s meant to be heard: as an instrumental track on the game Wipeout for Playstation.

I agree that most Prodigy is better off without the lyrics. They are often very repetitive and just kinda weird. But I do enjoy the music and how I’m instantly transported back to the ’90s.

The Clutch Rider
The Clutch Rider
2 months ago
Reply to  Church

no good, time to smack my bitch up

AssMatt
AssMatt
2 months ago

Man, Wipeout XL, what a feely blast from the past. I was never any good at it, but man did I love sliding around that game. Thanks for the memories.

Data
Data
2 months ago

A thermal car is clearly an EV experiencing a thermal runaway and immolating itself.

Music from Wipeout XL, yes! I was always partial to Landmass by Future Sound of London.

Fasterlivingmagazine
Fasterlivingmagazine
2 months ago

I feel maseratis are bought by people who have some money, want status and know nothing about cars.

Gee See
Gee See
2 months ago

In the V8 day before Ferrari spin off. I would say it is for the decerning consumer who just want the Ferrari engine at a cheaper price. Much like Tudor vs Rolexes.

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
2 months ago

2 out of 6 of the Executive VPs at the last company I worked for drove Maseratis. This checks out. It checks out hard.

Hondaimpbmw 12
Hondaimpbmw 12
2 months ago

An acquaintance dumped his Maserati Ghibli and kept his BMW i8. I believe that gives you an idea of how unreliable the Maserati is.

Parsko
Parsko
2 months ago

There is a recurring theme here on TMD. It’s one that Torch has and does speak about regularly, and needs to be repeated…

Cars and car purchases are an emotional decision. So many things impact our emotions and thus our decisions behind them. We spoke about this yesterday with Elon and Tesla, and we are back at it with Stellantis and Tevares.

If you choose to act in these ways, we, as the consumers, will choose to react in the ways we are. Please don’t be surprised by it, or when your companies lose sales, or your advertisers take their money elsewhere, or your suppliers and the UAW want to tell you to proverbially “F$CK OFF”.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
2 months ago
Reply to  Parsko

Shut up but take my money!

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
2 months ago

FCA didn’t exactly invest in their future.
And Stellantis doesn’t know what they want the multitudes of brands they now have.

The wedding between both PSA’s and FCA’s houses makes it even worse merger of a mess than VW’s wandering list of brands it picks up here and there before just rebadging another VW (and, seriously, what is even the point of SEAT, and WTF are they doing with Ducati?).

Maryland J
Maryland J
2 months ago

I mean, when your product costs +50% more over five years (at a higher rate than other manufacturers), have some the highest days of supply of unsold vehicles, have horrendously poor reliability (just ask me about my 4XE), cut US based jobs and manufacturing, open up new plants in Mexico, invest and build products no-one wants (Wagoneer, and its variants. Hornet. Etc)

It’s really, really tough to make friends.

Spikedlemon
Spikedlemon
2 months ago
Reply to  Maryland J

There’s a heap of historical negative marketing out there for Stellantis.

Pupmeow
Pupmeow
2 months ago

Tavares on why the Maserati isn’t selling: it’s Marketing’s fault
Tavares on why OEMs are “suffering” (lol): it’s the governments’ fault
Tavares on why labor relations are poor: it’s Fain’s fault

Parsko
Parsko
2 months ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

Exactly. It’s never MY fault. Can we just agree that we are all done with a-hole, narcissists, greedy, jackasses? Not the companies, parties, or products they sell or represent. JUST THEM. Please, find new replacements that actually represent and lead the people under them.

Mechjaz
Mechjaz
2 months ago
Reply to  Pupmeow

A quote that comes to mind:
“If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole in the morning. If you run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole.”

2-Car Solution
2-Car Solution
2 months ago

Off topic, but relevant. Is the topshot a conglomeration of Predator (schwarzenegger and Weathers’ greeting in Vietnam) and Over the Top (arguably the greatest arm-wrestling themed movie of all-time)? If so, kudos.

AssMatt
AssMatt
2 months ago
Reply to  2-Car Solution

I think Peter painted it. But definitely inspired!

Church
Church
2 months ago
Reply to  2-Car Solution

It looks like it’s just the Predator one duplicated and pallet swapped to me.

Beto O'Kitty
Beto O'Kitty
2 months ago

Most Durango buyers would be effected by loan rates but I don’t see the same for Mazaradi buyers. Of course you would have to determine if that demographic actually exists!

getstoney VII
getstoney VII
2 months ago

How much they cut depends on whether the powers that be currently actually believe tax increases will win out in November. They probably stay safe with 25, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some “hidden influence” demand it be 50.

Last edited 2 months ago by getstoney VII
Taco Shackleford
Taco Shackleford
2 months ago
Reply to  getstoney VII

50 bp is only sensible option at this point. Pretty much ever banker and investment manager is expecting 50 at this point. 25 is too little to make a large impact, and future possible tax cuts have no impact on what the fed does.

getstoney VII
getstoney VII
2 months ago

They sure do if corporate tax increases are put in place and more offshoring occurs, alongside personal tax rate increases that Mark Cuban, of all friggin’ people, is advocating for. It’ll affect basically every metric the Fed claims they use to make their decisions.

Hondaimpbmw 12
Hondaimpbmw 12
2 months ago
Reply to  getstoney VII

The problem w/ Washington is, they keep telling the sheeple that they are raising corporate taxes; completely ignoring the fact that corporations *don’t* pay taxes, their customers do.

Its the old saw “don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax the fellow behind that tree.

RataTejas
RataTejas
2 months ago
Reply to  getstoney VII

My wager is a quarter point right now. Half a point may accelerate the housing market too much. I think they’ll come out with the .25 and teaser trailer a .5 at the next meeting.

getstoney VII
getstoney VII
2 months ago
Reply to  getstoney VII

Well, well,well. 50 then 50 again. Looks like Powell got a talking to…

World24
World24
2 months ago

Fain ends by pointing out that “It’s not every day that we, the auto workers, are on the same side as the dealers….”

I wish I was as rich as this guy’s comment.

Alexk98
Alexk98
2 months ago

Commentary I’ve seen online about expected Fed rate cuts are indicating 25 basis points in September, another 25 in November (no meeting in October iirc) and an additional 25 in December. After holding out for so long, I suspect a slow trickle of 25 bp at a time, rather than a larger starting cut.

The more cuts the merrier. I’m nearly at a point where buying a house is a reasonable option, but I need at least a .5% rate cut in ~4 months to push me over the edge, that or a slip in home prices. Needless to say, I’m more optimistic about rate cuts.

Last edited 2 months ago by Alexk98
Church
Church
2 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Take it from me, some rando on the internet: there is no way we don’t see .5% in next four months. Chair Powell is all about that soft landing so I think it will be a bit at a time, but four months is a long time. However, most mortgage rates are already pricing that in and have already dropped preceding the expected rate cuts, so are you saying you need _another_ .5% in the next four months? That’s a much dicier proposition. I’m inclined to agree that a total of 75 basis points over the next four months is likely, but that might only mean another 25 bp from where most rates are today.

Alexk98
Alexk98
2 months ago
Reply to  Church

Fair enough, I honestly haven’t looked at rates much in the past month, but seeing a 30-year fixed is barely above 6%, we’re in the ballpark where I can be comfortable enough to consider things. It is clear the first 0.5% has been adjusted in already which is great compared to even a month ago, and anything to pull rates below 6% would be very welcome. Thankfully I’ve got time until my current lease is up, and enough time to feel out rates and the market to see what the right move is.

Church
Church
2 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Well, we got our 50 bp, so I would expect the rates to go down another .25% over the next month as they price in the next rate cut.

Paul E
Paul E
2 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Bet on more interest rate price changes before betting on home price drops. Mortgage markets largely factored in the anticipated rate cut (not to mention typical 30-year mortgage pricing is driven by pricing on 10-year US Treasury bonds, not the fed funds rate), and rates have indeed dropped quite a bit since July (in my part of the midwest USA, close to a point, into the 5s to low 6s).
While every real estate market truly is local, many locations are still supply constrained, especially on the new construction side and in the lower price ranges. More people who chose to stay put with cheap rates will eventually venture back out, selling their current places and making changes, as people consistently do. I don’t see home prices spiking for most, and I see a continued slow drift downwards on mortgage rate pricing deeper into the 5s, but nothing like the pandemic-driven insanity of 2020-22 rate pricing and related stupidity in real estate market/seller/buyer behaviors at that time. (30+ year Realtor here).

Taargus Taargus
Taargus Taargus
2 months ago
Reply to  Alexk98

Any rare reduction will likely be met with increased demand, and even higher home prices. It sucks, but that’s what happens when there’s so little supply.

IRegertNothing, Esq.
IRegertNothing, Esq.
2 months ago

Everybody Hates Chrys(ler)?

V10omous
V10omous
2 months ago

A “thermal car” is one that burns your leg on the exposed tip of the side pipes as you exit.

IRegertNothing, Esq.
IRegertNothing, Esq.
2 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

Not that you would have any personal experience with that…

Parsko
Parsko
2 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

COTD!!!! LOLOLOL

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
2 months ago
Reply to  V10omous

I see what you did there

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