It’s a bad sign when more choice results in less desire, but that seems to be the case with electric cars. More new electric cars and trucks are hitting the market seemingly every week and, yet, a new survey shows that fewer and fewer potential consumers think of those vehicles as something they’d like to own. What’s going on here?
We’re going to explore that in this episode of The Morning Dump, as well as look at the curious case of ZEEKR’s IPO and what it portends for Chinese electric car companies looking to reach outside of their home market.
Plus, more proof that now is the right time to buy a Stellantis product and, hey, President Joe Biden thinks all auto workers in the United States might get unionized. Or, at least, it’s convenient for him to say that.
The One Chart That Shows How Bad It Really Is For Electric Carmakers
Other than the difficult-to-parse colors, I enjoy this chart from S&P Global Mobility that shows a survey of about 8,000 global participants and their openness to purchasing either an electric car or a hybrid car.
What’s amazing to me, here, is that in 2021, at the height of the pandemic, 86% of respondents were open to purchasing an electric vehicle and a whopping 93% were willing to consider a hybrid. In the two years since, according to the survey, consumer desire for electric vehicles has dropped to just 67%, while hybrid purchasing desire slumped to 72%.
Why is this happening? Thankfully, the survey also breaks down some of the reasoning. It’s not necessarily charging networks, as only 46% of the respondents said they were worried about charging time. It’s also not just range anxiety, as most respondents would be content with a car producing less than 300 miles of range.
All of the above are factors, but the biggest factor is affordability according to the study:
[P]rice fatigue has set in, driven by rising interest rates and inventory shortages that have only recently seen relief, said Brian Rhodes, director of connected car and vehicle experience for S&P Global Mobility.
Depending on where an EV is manufactured, changes to the tax-credit program in the US now force consumers to lease – rather than purchase – many models. Frequent media reports about charging network reliability shortcomings have not helped either. At this point in the evolution of EVs, adding more models simply cannot cancel out these issues.
I underlined that last bit because it’s so important. The constant drumbeat of $50-60k EVs is a bummer if you’re even considering something like this, which is why vehicles like the $35k Volvo EX30 are so important.
Granted, since 2019, consumer purchase for both of these drivetrain types has risen and, frankly, the world cannot support 67% of the world buying a new EV yet so there’s still plenty of room for EVs to grow.
Chinese Automakers Need The United States, Too
Here’s a small complaint: Zeekr apparently had a drive of some of their vehicles at Monticello Motor Club, not too far from me, recently. I wasn’t invited. This is a shame. I really want to get inside that Zeekr 09 and try it out.
Why would Zeekr be trying to appeal to journalists in the United States, anyway? Because the Geely Auto-owned company wants to build goodwill ahead of a potential listing on the New York Stock Exchange. This is seemingly part of Geely’s strategy with its subsidiary companies and it makes a lot of sense from a financial standpoint.
The problem is China. Or the United States. Or Taiwan. It all depends on your perspective, but China’s government ultimately gets to decide which companies do or do not list, and the United States gets to decide how particular it wants to be about regulatory issues. Taiwan fits in because Taiwan is, historically, the issue that China and the United States can’t agree on, but it’s also just a proxy for the general interoperability of the two companies, which has been low lately.
The listing of Zeekr isn’t just a big deal for Geely, it’s also an important test of whether the relationship between the U.S. and China is chill or chilled. Here’s Reuters on the big picture:
The listing could mark the first major float in the U.S. by a Chinese company in two years, after the delisting of ride-hailing giant Didi Global from the New York Stock Exchange.
Didi had angered Chinese regulators by pushing ahead with its $4.4 billion New York listing despite being asked to put it on hold.
The episode, together with a longstanding audit dispute between China and the U.S., stalled Chinese companies from seeking U.S. listings. Only six mainland China-based companies launched U.S. IPOs in 2022.
Since then, however, Beijing has softened its stance towards companies looking to list internationally, unveiling a set of rules earlier this year to revive such listings, after the U.S. accounting watchdog and China resolved the audit dispute in December 2022.
I just want some sweet, sweet vans.
There Are So Many Stellantis Products On Dealer Lots
The ongoing saga of Stellantis building cars that American consumers seemingly do not want continues. I joked earlier this year that a strike was probably good for the automaker because it meant it had an excuse to stop building cars it couldn’t sell, but that seems like less of a joke today.
In spite of the strike, the total supply of unsold inventory nationwide across all brands (on lots or in transit) rose to 2.4 million vehicles, up about 62% from last November, when supply constraints were still plaguing the market. Given the current pace of sales, Cox Automotive estimates that this represents a 67-day supply (a good supply is considered somewhere close to the 60-day range).
For Stellantis, though? The Dodge brand is up to a whopping 186-day supply on average, followed by Chrysler at 135 days’ supply, Ram at 129, and Jeep at 123.
While Ford, Lincoln, and Buick are all above the national average (and Toyota and Honda are way below it), no automaker is quite in the position that Stellantis is. So, if you need a new car, expect deals at your local Dodge/Ram/Jeep/Chrysler dealer.
Joe Biden Wants UAW Deals For All U.S. Autoworkers
Donning a bright red UAW tee over his usual shirt-and-tie, President Joe Biden was full of spit and vinegar when he arrived at Belvidere, Illinois yesterday. You can see the above speech and judge how much of it is spit and how much of it is vinegar.
Here’s the key thing he said, after applauding the recent tentative deals:
“But I’m a little selfish, I want this type of contract for all autoworkers, and I have a feeling the UAW has a plan for that,” said Biden. “The future of the automobile industry will be made in America by American union workers.”
That sentiment should be no surprise to anyone who regularly reads this morning news roundup, though whether the UAW can accomplish this or not remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen whether or not the union will officially endorse President Biden, though a meeting like this points to that potentially happening.
The Big Question
Rank the reasons why you wouldn’t buy an EV from the following:
- Cost
- Range
- Performance
- Charging
For me the charging infrastructure is #1. Because even if/when costs are brought into line, or you pick one of the few budget minded models, you still have to deal with an absolutely shit charging network. Cost is definitely #2 because most of them are too expensive, but cars in general have gotten too expensive.
Not a single desirable electric car out there and they’re too expensive if there were any at the prices they want. I kind of like the Taycan, but only in relation to EVs and certainly not for its price. EVs are being built like disposable electronic devices. Even if I didn’t GAF about sustainability and so on, there is no way in hell I’m paying more than I’ve ever spent on a car that I actually like for something I don’t that is disposable and will be outdated all the sooner. With an ICE car, one could argue they’re already outdated, but there’s far more futureproofing in them (though they’re getting pretty bad, too) in that an engine replacement is much easier, likely a lot cheaper, and can be done by far more people than a battery replacement and that ignores swapping in different engines. I think if my GR86 as a vintage sports car with some of the modern annoyances, but also safety. The feeling isn’t that it’s going to be just junk old tech in ten years, but a future classic and it drives well enough and has enough character to hold onto. Plus, it’s cheap on gas and tires thanks to light weight, something no electric is yet. These electrics are boring AF (no, I don’t count stupid, unusably quick acceleration and nothing else on offer to be entertaining and it’s a sad thing that I feel compelled to have to write that) and there’s the feel that the battery tech and software will just age it out so it’s nothing but old junk in ten years. For that, the damn things had better be under $20k, which of course, they’re not. In fairness, though, there aren’t many ICE vehicles I want anymore, either, so I’m sure I’m not an exemplar of the average person lacking EV interest.
Oh, this all changes if the Aptera actually makes it to market. Not betting on it, though.
1) Cost
4, 4, 4) Range, Performance, Charging
This is for me, NOW. I have an ICE, so range can be covered by that. The performance of any electric car is better or the same as what I am used to, so no need to go crazy there. Charging is evolving and not something I would consider, YET.
It’s really just cost. I fall into the category of humans that want a sub $30k car. I don’t like fancy, I’m okay hand cranking windows and not having any features.
I am in the market to replace my very good Audi wagon with something somewhat larger due to my family expanding. I have almost no larger wagon options, literally none under $60k+ MSRP, so I’ve considered picking up an extremely depreciated used 2019 e-tron or even a new “Q8” e-tron (the lease deals on these are bonkers right now, at least what is being advertised). The problem is, despite the relatively OK price to get one of these EVs, there are still a lot of barriers to entry for me. Primarily, I have to get a charger installed in my detached garage which is going to cost me anywhere from $1500-4500 depending upon who I ask, will take over a month to get scheduled, permitted and installed, not to mention the cost of the EVSE alone being around $400-600. That cost right there is A LOT of gas, more than a year’s worth. And a lot of electrical providers want to know what car I have before installing the charger, so it’s a chicken and egg situation, and I’m not sitting at Walmart with a newborn waiting to charge at an Electrify America station until I get a home charger.
But here’s the main issue: EVs cost too much. Getting infrastructure installed in my house to make said EV function for me costs too much and is a huge hassle. If some company could make some sort of concierge service work where I choose a car and the rest of the hassle of EV ownership (charging infrastructure) is taken care of and baked into the car’s price, I’m game.
The concierge service is already a thing. Google “chevrolet home charging installation”. The concierge service “Qmerit” will probably end up charging you more than the $1500 that they get from GM depending on how long of a wire run is needed to your detached garage, but $1500 is included in the purchase price of the car.
Your utility might pitch in for the EVSE/installation. My utility here in Michigan offers $500.
Also you can get a tax refund of 30% of the cost due to the inflation reduction act.
Depending on how much you drive in a day, you might be able to get by with level 1 charging till you get a level 2 installed. A lot of folks use level 1 charging and have no plans of getting a level 2 installed. Although the e-tron is not exactly efficient, so you might not be able to avoid the level 2 lol.
Stellantis is like me and my friends in high school, Blutarsky-ish to say the least.
I wouldn’t want to try and fix that dumpster fire. And they don’t even bother to put in Maserati or Alfa.
To add one item to your list Matt:
#1 Origin Country (China doesn’t need any help cracking America open like a beer can)
#2 Cost (I can’t afford anything on my salary currently. Yay?)
#3 Charging (I’d rather not brick my car plugging in to charge)
#4 Range (A concern, but livable)
#5 Performance (Too much traffic to care)
honorable mentions: insane depreciation, infrequent but insane repair costs, insurance costs, spyware and other feature bloat
For me at least cost range and performance (defined as the vehicle meeting my needs and wants) are all interconnected. Current EV’s can meet one or two of my expectations in cost/range/performance, but not all three.
Charging technology is acceptable but could be better. Charging infastrcture definetly needs improvements especially outside of major highways.
re: cost
We saved +/- $150 last month (~1500 miles) by driving our “new” used EV. Also receiving a $4,000 tax credit on the purchase price. At this rate, we save $10k in fueling over the first 100,000 miles of ownership. That means $25k – $10k – $4k = the equivalent of spending $11k on a gas car to drive 100,000 miles over 5.5 years (assuming gas prices stay flat). I think the EV experience will prove far more reliable, economical, and enjoyable than the alternative. But as they say in the internet: YMMV, brah…
How much more do you pay for insurance over a comparable ICE vehicle? Cheapest insurance I could find was 150$ more a month for an EV.
About $200/yr more than I was paying on a 10yo diesel wagon for comparable coverage. Lucky, I guess!
Ouch. Geico quoted me about $150 extra every 6 months for a couple different new EVs, give or take depending on the model I plug in (only about $100 for a used Bolt, but that’s also 2 model years older than my current vehicle). It’s a little less to replace my primary vehicle (Kia Niro PHEV) with an EV than a used sports car (most of those added about $200 every six months, give or take).
EVs from an evolutionary state are still in the intel 286 period of the cpu evolution. If you have to have an ev, lease one. The technology is still changing too fast to justify buying and owning long term.
Now that joint ventures have taught the Chinese how to make things and they have stolen all of our technology, the only leverage we have is access to our markets. China has to show progress on human rights and its position on Taiwan before we give them access. But alas, our feckless politicians are to weak to take a stand on anything let alone something this important.
“China has to show progress on human rights and its position on Taiwan before we give them access.”
Funny how picky some folks are about China while simultaneously slurping down whatever Saudi Arabia is willing to sell.
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
“What the fuck is that supposed to mean?”
You’re kidding right?
“China has to show progress on human rights and its position on Taiwan before we give them access.”
So lets look at the metric set by Saudi Arabia, a country whom we’ve given access to our markets for about a century:
Significant human rights issues included: unlawful killings; executions for nonviolent offenses; forced disappearances; torture and cases of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment of prisoners and detainees by government agents; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary arrest and detention; political prisoners or detainees; serious restrictions on free expression, the press, and the internet, including threats of violence or unjustified arrests or prosecutions against journalists, censorship, site blocking, and engaging in harassment and intimidation against Saudi dissidents living abroad; substantial interference with the freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association; severe restrictions of religious freedom; restrictions on freedom of movement; inability of citizens to choose their government peacefully through free and fair elections; violence and discrimination against women, although new women’s rights initiatives were implemented; trafficking in persons; criminalization of consensual same-sex sexual activity; and restrictions on workers’ freedom of association, including prohibition of trade unions and collective bargaining.
In several cases the government did not punish officials accused of committing human rights abuses, contributing to an environment of impunity. In September the Public Prosecutor’s Office announced a final verdict in the murder trial of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, killed at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, Turkey, in 2018. All five defendants previously sentenced to death for their roles had their sentences commuted to a maximum of 20 years in prison, following a pardon from the Khashoggi family. Three others had their prison sentences upheld. The UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary, or arbitrary executions called the verdicts a “parody of justice” and stated high-level officials “who organized and embraced the execution of Jamal Khashoggi have walked free from the start.”
Ant that’s after they mellowed. They used to be far worse. Ask any Saudi woman what it was like to live there not being allowed to drive, always having to be escorted by a male relative and it being a CRIMINAL act to dare live alone. We still bought plenty of their oil though.
https://www.state.gov/reports/2020-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/saudi-arabia/
Hence my point that if you complain about China while buying Saudi oil you’re a hypocrite.
Cost primarily. But also “stupid feature fatigue.”
Interestingly, I’m at a point in my life where I’m able to (responsibly) afford a more expensive new car… but I find myself less interested in doing so than ever before.
I have zero interest in spending $60K+ on a car where I have to use a damn touch screen to move the AC vents or open the glove box. Or that requires a subscription to use a feature that’s already built in. Or that collects huge amounts of data on me that can be used to further profit the manufacturer…
The most compelling new cars to me (that I’d consider buying)? The new Prius Prime. The Ford Maverick hybrid.
This! I’m 41. I spent most of my years between 15 and 35 dreaming about the cars I would buy once I had the money. Now I’ve finnaly gotten to the point in my career that I do have the money to responsibly buy a fairly expensive new car, but there’s almost nothing on the market, either EV or ICE, that really gets me excited anymore. It’s just surreal.
I never thought I’d be into “classics”, but now I find myself browsing BaT and other sites regularly just to see cars I’d actually be interested in owning. Maybe I was right all along, the E39 M5 really is the pinnacle of automotive design and performance…
Welcome to adulthood.
Who in the absolute hell designed that chart?! It’s a terrible layout! Sure it’s attractive but wow, you nailed it with the “difficult-to-parse colors,” but even after the colors it still is too confusing to really read. What’s wrong with a good ol’ line graphs, eh? Also, I would hate to make that chart in either Illustrator or InDesign.
I was going to say, it is perhaps one of the worst ones I’ve ever seen in the wild.
Yeah that’s the worst chart I’ve ever seen. I spent 30 seconds trying to figure out what it was trying to say and gave up. More power to anyone who can interpret that.
It’s like they literally Googled “worst pre-made chart available in PowerPoint” and then said, “oh yeah, that’s my huckleberry…”
I only look at used. I could charge at home and I would keep an ICE cars for long trips so:
COSTS!!!>>>>range>>charging>performance.
A used EV still as far as I can make out isn’t cheap enough to make the costs work vs just continue using my 25 mpg Accord and negative cost* bicycles. Just the sales tax alone on a new for me EV is enough to wipe out a few years of savings. That’s not even getting into the difference in insurance and registration much less the purchase cost.
As for fuel in my area even the cheapest electricity I can buy from PG&E would cost me the same as ~$5 regular in many hybrids. It only gets more expensive on the road.
So for now its a matter of want vs need. Do I WANT a shiny new for me EV? Sure!! But I don’t NEED one yet. That could change though. More free to me charging options would change the math as would $2,000/gallon gas or a much greater need to drive outside of cycling distance but within the range of an EV.
*assumes the health and convenience benefits outweigh the costs.
I wonder how much of the 2019 to 2021 spike in interest was people having extra stimulus money to spend, and ergo were open to spending more. Or possibly now working from home (temporarily, or permanently) which reduced any anxieties they may have had about charging infrastructure (and range to a lesser extent).
I also wonder if part of the decline is also price not just because of no free stimulus money, but prices in general going up. Moreover, RTO is being pushed more and more, so charging infrastructure anxiety ticked back up (and range to a lesser extent).
Yes, a couple of $1200 checks definitely had me considering purchasing a 60K vehicle. People give that stimulus far too much credit, the reality was that people were finally able to cover their bills and have a little left over for a brief period. Not counting the massive tax giveaway to the wealthy, of course.
$1200 check was a shoulder shrug for most people, myself included.
Meanwhile, my father works at a factory where those $1200 checks is what got his $20/hour coworkers to buy $70,000 luxury pickups. He can recount one guy (in his 30s, father is 74) telling him it’s what convinced him to pull the trigger. He wasn’t the only one that bought one, by my father noticed a half dozen new fancy pickups in the lot when the factory opened back up, all from rank and file making less than my father did ($22/hr).
I agree that $1200 didn’t change anything for anyone rational, but trust me when I say a lot of the world is anything but rational.
The expanded child tax credit stimmies were a real boost too.
True. I wish they had kept those going, according to the stats child-poverty was at an all-time low. I don’t have kids myself, but I’d rather have my tax dollars go to feeding kids and not bombing them.
I want my tax dollars used to help people not just here but also around the world to not have so many damn kids in the first place. One effective proven way to do that is with prosperity so not bombing kids and feeding them is a big part of that.
Oof, that’s some terrible decision making. All I did with mine was put it in the bank. The amount wasn’t anything to sneeze at, but definitely not life changing for me. The extra 600/week would have been nice, but other than a two-week furlough early on, we worked right through it. I don’t begrudge anyone who got it though.
Yeah, in these case the company furloughed, so they got to collect UI, then they got the stimulus checks, and then the extra chunk a week on top.
They took that money straight to a car dealership. Yeehaw.
I’ve been excited about the Model 3 since it was announced, I’d still love to own one, but I simply cannot pay $50-60K. I know, I know, theoretically for a period you could de-option one down to $35K but that’s not what I want and $35K is still too much to pay for a stripped down car. Shift the AWD long range (or the Performance) down to $35K or even $40K and I’m in the market. But as long as folks are still out there willing to pay (or finance) $50K+ it’s always going to leave the rest of us out of the market.
I agree that the $35K Volvo EX30 will help a lot of folks in my position but man I just really don’t like SUVs so it does nothing for me. I’d be open to the performance version of the ID.3 but I’m on the wrong side of the Atlantic for that.
Range and charging time are not concerns for me at all, it’s all price vs fun-to-drive.
$45k Long range and AWD in grey. There’s taxpayer funnymoney on the hood so you’re looking at slightly less than $40k for a AWD car that has great power, good range, and a decent charging network. Given the rise in cost of everything else, how is this not a decent deal?
Just cost.
Everything else is fine . I’m looking forward to no longer having to “stop for gas”, especially in the middle of winter.
Just need to find something at a reasonable price. We shall see.
I’m so on the fence with EVs. Honestly the environmental/political factors aren’t really a concern since I think it’ll be a while before we know if the current EV paradigm is ‘good for the environment.’
BUT…
Deterrent #1 is vehicle cost, since I currently drive something old, cheap, and long paid for. Dropping 50k+ (Canadian, but still) feels like a reach when I HAVE a working car.
Deterrent #2 is vehicle ‘feel’ or experience. I’ve never owned a vehicle with as many bleeps and bloops and nuisances as a modern car of any sort. I just wanna drive my freaking car without any cameras or blind spot lights or lane warnings or or or….
Deterrent #3 is charging, specifically needing apps to plan your trip just to find charging stations, and ALSO an app to charge!! Enough with the apps! How on earth have we so complicated the fundamental task of fuelling or vehicles?
And that’s not even getting into all the weird fake shifts and fake engine noise adding up to an EV sometimes being a driving simulator that happens to be attached to a car. I dunno. I’m just gonna drive my eponymous Honda to absolute dust and then figure out what to do.
Performance: Current BEVs cannot do what their ICE equivalents can do even excluding the drivetrains from the equation. I can’t get a “F-150” Lightning BEV in a single cab, extended cab, 6 seat crew cab, 6.5ft bed, 8ft bed, etc. but I can get ICE F-150s with those configurations. Including drivetrains you can’t get a BEV with a driven “live” axle in the rear from a major automaker. If you happen to like things like mechanical latches, physical keys, etc. they’re basically nonexistent on modern BEVs. There is literally no reason why BEVs can’t be built like existing ICE automobiles in terms of configurations and (not range and refueling speed) specs.
Charging: I would be fine with only 35 Miles of range in a BEV provided said BEV met my physical specs. However with such little range charging becomes a massive issue. Now if everywhere had external 240V outlets for charging I’d just brink a charging cable with me everywhere and just plug in everywhere without having to worry about charger availability, whether the charger unit is working, whether the charging unit has my charging standard, etc. Currently unless you drive a Tesla or have great access to 240V outlets for charging, and or you only drive within your battery range so you always charge at home, then you’re stuck with pretty horrible charging options.
Range: As said previously I can get by with 35 miles of range if it’s in the proper vehicle.
Cost: Unless it’s an extremely special automobile I’m not paying 6+ figures for a new car. I like cheap cars.
bring a charging cable not “brink a charging cable”
If you are a 2 car family, buy newer vehicles, and can charge at home, there’s little reason not to consider an EV for one of the vehicles. I have a big truck to tow with and to drive to work 2 days a week (I WFH the other 3) and a PHEV for my wife’s commute and all the short trips. For those who say an EV isn’t engaging, take a test drive and find the right car. Our 330e is a ton of fun to drive, but is still super efficient. My previous Volt was also a fun car. It’s different than an ICE car, but can still be fun. The convenience of “filling up at home” is so nice. Even with a 20 mile range PHEV we only take it to the gas station every 5-6 weeks.
I thought about it, but it would have required us to become a 3 car family. The paid for pickup truck is useful, so it stays. The EV would be car 2, but it wouldn’t suit us for our monthly trip through Texas to see my in-laws. There would need to be a 3rd, efficient ICE car for that trip, so I just made that car 2 and skipped the EV.
The EV I need is a small, cheap unit with ~120 mi range.
It’s not right for everyone. A PHEV might work great for you though. It’s a much easier step than going straight EV.
I’ve already placed an order for an EV with the dealership, and am just waiting delivery. The catch – I ordered a PHEV (Prius Prime).
For me, 35-50 miles of range is enough for 5 days out of the week, topping off at home overnight at 110v. On the weekend, I need 100+ miles on a route where the only charging is FLO station on a college campus, multiple miles off my route.
Cars like the Prius Prime and Ramcharger seem like the ideal first step for EV conversion in the US.
Someone at S&P Global got some new management consultant graphing software! Holy mackerel that is a TERRIBLE chart.
As for putting the considerations in order, I’d add availability as a reason. I suppose it’s kind of related to cost, but if I’m spending $60k or so on an item, the seller needs to make it easy for me to get exactly what I want, right where I want to buy it.
It would be so much easier to read and compare if it was just bar graphs.
I had a rental Charger last week. This is a vehicle that -starts- at $34k, which I recognize is nearly average by current standards, but good lord – what a shitbox. The interior is archaic, and the tech is worse.
My wife (not a car person) asked me why it was so awful, and all I could say is “this is what happens when you fully amortize tooling – it’s probably hugely profitable for Dodge” … which is why they are now the darling of rental fleets. Discounts at scale with Hertz, and still profitable for Dodge.
I’m curious about all the cars sitting o. dodge lots, what even are they? Are they last call Chargers and Challengers with ridiculous dealer mark ups no one is willing to pay anymore or are they Hornets showing up and being ignored cause they are too expensive?
I am currently looking at the inventory for one of the dealerships near me.
107 Dodge vehicles
53 Chargers (average price about $38k)
The only ones with markups are the Scat Pack models and you’re already paying at least $55k for those. There’s one for $29k in fluorescent green but it’s pretty barebones.
FWIW, there’s only 4 Hornets on the lot.
176 Ram vehicles
112 Ram 1500s (average price about $65k)
All the 1500s have significant markdowns off the window sticker, some as much as $10k.
Supply and demand has no bearing on this market.
While I could easily afford an EV, and I would be a good EV candidate (I have a home with a driveway, mostly drive <30 miles in an urban area, have other IC vehicles in my fleet as a backup), at this point I’m too much of a cheap bastard to make the leap to EV because of initial purchase price. My last car purchase was a 2015 Mazda 3 that I paid cash for so I don’t have a car payment. The only EVs in the same price range are early tech cars and/or penalty boxes for my 6’3″ frame. So I suspect I won’t be in the EV game for a while.
I don’t like to bring up politics on this website (or anywhere on the internet), but I think it is relevant in a discussion of declining interest in EVs. For whatever reason, many American conservatives view EVs as symbols of government intrusion and ICE vehicles as symbols of freedom. From my experience, these sentiments were much less common four years ago than they are today. It looks like ~15% of respondents to the survey were American. If the Americans surveyed are representative of political view of the country at large, that alone could account for a large part of the decline in willingness to consider an EV.
Wouldn’t be the first time.The first generation Chevy Volt was doomed in part because a segment of the population and its media machine associated it with “Government Motors” and the Feds mission to force Americans into small vehicles.
I don’t think this is particularly difficult to discern. Only one party is enacting ICE bans, and it isn’t the conservative one.
People can disagree about the need for them, but the causation is pretty apparent, even to low-info voters.
I agree ICE bans contribute to conservatives viewing EVs as government intrusion (this is one of many reasons I disagree with ICE bans), but I don’t think that accounts for all of it. There is similar resistance to other environmental technologies that don’t have obvious downsides like ICE bans (one example would be resistance to wind turbines in areas where wind energy is cost competitive with or cheaper than fossil fuels). EVs seem to be part of a broader trend of distrust/disliking alternative energy, even in cases where alternative energy is the logical choice.
Yeah the vehemence of anti-solar and anti-wind among some people near me is rather surprising.
I work for the power company and I basically just want to yell at them asking if they like cheaper electricity or not.
Then theres Wyoming and Montana out there trying to ban or put up barriers to EVs. Tit for tat
I don’t support banning EVs either.
Supplemental registration costs/taxes to make up for missing gas tax revenue I can defend, as long as it’s proportional and reasonable.
And actually 100% goes to infrastructure
I should be an ideal EV candidate:
I do mostly urban short distance driving in a metro area.
I have a garage where I could easily install a charger.
I tend to have cars in the $50K- $60K range
I lease (usually for 3 years) so depreciation is a known at the beginning
My annual mileage driven is low.
However–
EV’s offer me no advantage over an ICE car, AND have some drawbacks.
They’re more expensive for an equivalent level of vehicle.
I don’t drive far enough to accumulate any quantifiable fuel-cost savings even if I always charge at home, so there’s no offset for the higher initial price.
I don’t drive far enough during a lease to have any maintenance savings.
I would incur expense above the cost of the car in installing a garage charger and any choice there would tend to lock me to a specific brand of vehicle.
MY Insurance company charges noticeably more to insure an EV
(From their website)
If you’re interested in purchasing an electric vehicle there are three key reasons why it may be more expensive to insure an electric car:
Higher EV accident payoutInsurers typically have a higher payout with EV accidents. Even a small accident could be costly if the battery is involved. Additionally, since the technology is newer, there are fewer technicians trained to fix them.
More expensive to repairIf the battery is damaged, the battery replacement could cost $5,000 to $15,000, which doesn’t include the cost of labor.
Higher purchase priceSince electric vehicles typically cost more to buy, they cost more to insure.
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When I add things up, I personally see only a “perceived status” advantage over an ICE vehicle for which I will have to pay an additional cost. I don’t feel the need for additional status among my peers.
I must also admit that I don’t feel that I as an individual would be doing much to save the planet by purchasing one $70K EV among the 17 million cars purchased in the U.S. each year, especially while recognizing that it will probably be scrapped after 10-12 years -except for the giant lithium battery that no one really knows what to do with at its end of life- I assume that to be non-recyclable land fill material at the current level of technology as recycling for them is in its infancy.
https://www.science.org/content/article/millions-electric-cars-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries
EVs are also dramatically more carbon intensive to make. The estimates for how far vary significantly, but the general consensus is that you need to drive them for a while until their net carbon emissions are less than those of an ICE vehicle.
The battery also has a shelf-life, and you will have to drive enough miles within a given amount of time to offset the carbon generated producing the battery, at least on a per-mile basis.
Solid state batteries may change this. LiFePO4 batteries also might greatly narrow this gap, given they have a longer shelf life than Li Ion chemistries in general.
And if you were to say go Plug in Hybrid like the last gen Volt, you could then drive out of the city and make it to grandma’s house without having to camp out as Buc-EEs for an hour or more to make it that last mile.
I’m in a similar position. I should be the ideal candidate for an EV. I live in the middle of a metro area and mostly do short, close trips. My home is also already wired for an EV charger (I use it for a welder).
However, I only average around 4000 miles per year, and at least 70% of that is road trips into the mountains where charging infrastructure doesn’t exist. I also drive a 20 year old car that only has 130,000 miles on it and is a model known for going to 300,000 miles with little more than routine maintenance.
All of this leads to me having a hard time justifying the excessive prices and, for me specifically, excessive compromises in usage that would come with buying a BEV. A PHEV would be the best option for me, except the only vehicle that would fit my particular use case is a Wrangler 4xe, which is not only dramatically overpriced here in the Colorado front range, but also my previous several Wranglers have made me very reluctant to own a Jeep (or any Stellantis vehicle) again – my 20 year old Lexus has been a pallet cleanser after a decade of expensive, unreliable Jeeps.
I say all that to say, I’m way more excited about a PHEV than a BEV, and that holds true for pretty much everyone I have talked about this topic to.
Wait, are you saying that a product that is more expensive and offers some significant drawbacks over the existing product somehow lacks appeal to the customer?
Charging time and charging networks are not the same. I’m not worried about having to stop for 10, 15, or 30 min to top off my battery, I’m worried about not being able to find a charger this is both available and working.