It’s a bad sign when more choice results in less desire, but that seems to be the case with electric cars. More new electric cars and trucks are hitting the market seemingly every week and, yet, a new survey shows that fewer and fewer potential consumers think of those vehicles as something they’d like to own. What’s going on here?
We’re going to explore that in this episode of The Morning Dump, as well as look at the curious case of ZEEKR’s IPO and what it portends for Chinese electric car companies looking to reach outside of their home market.
Plus, more proof that now is the right time to buy a Stellantis product and, hey, President Joe Biden thinks all auto workers in the United States might get unionized. Or, at least, it’s convenient for him to say that.
The One Chart That Shows How Bad It Really Is For Electric Carmakers
Other than the difficult-to-parse colors, I enjoy this chart from S&P Global Mobility that shows a survey of about 8,000 global participants and their openness to purchasing either an electric car or a hybrid car.
What’s amazing to me, here, is that in 2021, at the height of the pandemic, 86% of respondents were open to purchasing an electric vehicle and a whopping 93% were willing to consider a hybrid. In the two years since, according to the survey, consumer desire for electric vehicles has dropped to just 67%, while hybrid purchasing desire slumped to 72%.
Why is this happening? Thankfully, the survey also breaks down some of the reasoning. It’s not necessarily charging networks, as only 46% of the respondents said they were worried about charging time. It’s also not just range anxiety, as most respondents would be content with a car producing less than 300 miles of range.
All of the above are factors, but the biggest factor is affordability according to the study:
[P]rice fatigue has set in, driven by rising interest rates and inventory shortages that have only recently seen relief, said Brian Rhodes, director of connected car and vehicle experience for S&P Global Mobility.
Depending on where an EV is manufactured, changes to the tax-credit program in the US now force consumers to lease – rather than purchase – many models. Frequent media reports about charging network reliability shortcomings have not helped either. At this point in the evolution of EVs, adding more models simply cannot cancel out these issues.
I underlined that last bit because it’s so important. The constant drumbeat of $50-60k EVs is a bummer if you’re even considering something like this, which is why vehicles like the $35k Volvo EX30 are so important.
Granted, since 2019, consumer purchase for both of these drivetrain types has risen and, frankly, the world cannot support 67% of the world buying a new EV yet so there’s still plenty of room for EVs to grow.
Chinese Automakers Need The United States, Too
Here’s a small complaint: Zeekr apparently had a drive of some of their vehicles at Monticello Motor Club, not too far from me, recently. I wasn’t invited. This is a shame. I really want to get inside that Zeekr 09 and try it out.
Why would Zeekr be trying to appeal to journalists in the United States, anyway? Because the Geely Auto-owned company wants to build goodwill ahead of a potential listing on the New York Stock Exchange. This is seemingly part of Geely’s strategy with its subsidiary companies and it makes a lot of sense from a financial standpoint.
The problem is China. Or the United States. Or Taiwan. It all depends on your perspective, but China’s government ultimately gets to decide which companies do or do not list, and the United States gets to decide how particular it wants to be about regulatory issues. Taiwan fits in because Taiwan is, historically, the issue that China and the United States can’t agree on, but it’s also just a proxy for the general interoperability of the two companies, which has been low lately.
The listing of Zeekr isn’t just a big deal for Geely, it’s also an important test of whether the relationship between the U.S. and China is chill or chilled. Here’s Reuters on the big picture:
The listing could mark the first major float in the U.S. by a Chinese company in two years, after the delisting of ride-hailing giant Didi Global from the New York Stock Exchange.
Didi had angered Chinese regulators by pushing ahead with its $4.4 billion New York listing despite being asked to put it on hold.
The episode, together with a longstanding audit dispute between China and the U.S., stalled Chinese companies from seeking U.S. listings. Only six mainland China-based companies launched U.S. IPOs in 2022.
Since then, however, Beijing has softened its stance towards companies looking to list internationally, unveiling a set of rules earlier this year to revive such listings, after the U.S. accounting watchdog and China resolved the audit dispute in December 2022.
I just want some sweet, sweet vans.
There Are So Many Stellantis Products On Dealer Lots
The ongoing saga of Stellantis building cars that American consumers seemingly do not want continues. I joked earlier this year that a strike was probably good for the automaker because it meant it had an excuse to stop building cars it couldn’t sell, but that seems like less of a joke today.
In spite of the strike, the total supply of unsold inventory nationwide across all brands (on lots or in transit) rose to 2.4 million vehicles, up about 62% from last November, when supply constraints were still plaguing the market. Given the current pace of sales, Cox Automotive estimates that this represents a 67-day supply (a good supply is considered somewhere close to the 60-day range).
For Stellantis, though? The Dodge brand is up to a whopping 186-day supply on average, followed by Chrysler at 135 days’ supply, Ram at 129, and Jeep at 123.
While Ford, Lincoln, and Buick are all above the national average (and Toyota and Honda are way below it), no automaker is quite in the position that Stellantis is. So, if you need a new car, expect deals at your local Dodge/Ram/Jeep/Chrysler dealer.
Joe Biden Wants UAW Deals For All U.S. Autoworkers
Donning a bright red UAW tee over his usual shirt-and-tie, President Joe Biden was full of spit and vinegar when he arrived at Belvidere, Illinois yesterday. You can see the above speech and judge how much of it is spit and how much of it is vinegar.
Here’s the key thing he said, after applauding the recent tentative deals:
“But I’m a little selfish, I want this type of contract for all autoworkers, and I have a feeling the UAW has a plan for that,” said Biden. “The future of the automobile industry will be made in America by American union workers.”
That sentiment should be no surprise to anyone who regularly reads this morning news roundup, though whether the UAW can accomplish this or not remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen whether or not the union will officially endorse President Biden, though a meeting like this points to that potentially happening.
The Big Question
Rank the reasons why you wouldn’t buy an EV from the following:
- Cost
- Range
- Performance
- Charging
I guess my reason to not buy an EV is performance.
There’s no fun EV sports cars that is not a multi million dollar super car. (Just because a car can do 1.8s 0-60 doesn’t make it a fun sports car).
Why bother with an EV or hybrid? You can buy a brand new Mitsubishi Mirage that gets 40 mpg for under 20 grand out the door. It has 2 year free service, 5 year bumper to bumper and 10 year powertrain warranty. Total operating cost over 10 years will be less than an EV or hybrid, you won’t have to worry about it breaking for 10 years. Plus when you take into account pollution from battery mining, production, power generation from coal or oil, mining those and transmission losses, it will pollute less than an EV or hybrid. You can fill it up anywhere in 5 minutes. Even with a 9 gallon tank it has better range than the best EV. In 10 years it will still be a useful used car while the EV will be a brick with a bad battery. Gas is very much alive.
The 2023 Kia Rio 5 that I bought this summer is a much nicer car. The highest mpg that I have gotten is 52 mpg on a 250 mile trip that was mostly country roads.
Yeah it’s probably a bit better, but the dash is weird and the headlights are ugly. The current Mirage is basically like being able to buy a 90’s Civic new today. Regardless there are several new cars available that get better mileage than the hybrids and cost less to run than the EVs.
The biggest difference between the two is that the 8 year old engine in the Mirage only has 78 hp and the Rio with its 2 year old updated engine has 120 hp. It would literally blow the doors off in a sub-compact showdown. The Rio gets much better than the 31 city mpg the EPA rates it for as long as you do not engage the “Sport” button. I have been pretty reliably getting 38 mpg city so I believe it actually gets better fuel economy with 4 cylinders.
Sure the Rio is probably faster, but honestly who cares in a little fuel efficent car. I’ve got 42 in a Mirage often.
So much misinformation here. Petroleum extraction and refining has lots of costs too. Besides, when was the last time a sunshine spill killed millions of animals and devastated communities?
The whole point of switching to EV is so we don’t cook ourselves alive.
“Besides, when was the last time a sunshine spill killed millions of animals and devastated communities?”
All the time. Sunlight is one of the most significant causes of cancer out there:
https://www.skincancer.org/skin-cancer-information/skin-cancer-facts/
https://www.scielo.org.mx/pdf/rmcp/v10n2/2448-6698-rmcp-10-02-416-en.pdf
It’s not misinformation. The process to extract minerals and manufacture EV batteries is extremely dirty from the diesel powered dozers, excavators and rock trucks that pull it from the earth, the bunker oil powered ships that move it to the manufacuring facilities to the waste products that have to be dumped. Not to mention that most of the minerals are mined at gunpoint by slave labor in conflict zones.
Solar? Same deal, solar cells are just as dirty to produce and they have a lifespan of about 10 years. Neither EV batteries or solar cells are recycled, they go into a landfill. Solar power is a tiny fraction of the electricty generated in the US and there is no practical way to increase that.
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars
Even taking into account all the fossil fuels used in making batteries, it’s still less carbon overall to run a BEV.
Here’s a calculator from Argonne National Lab for determining carbon footprints for different vehicle and fuel combinations: https://greet.anl.gov/greet.models
Utility scale renewables accounted for about 21% of US energy generation and nuclear was 18%. King Coal has been banished for a while: https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
Renewable energy is accounting for more planned installation than fossil generation with most of that being solar. So the electricity used to power EV’s is becoming more carbon neutral. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=55719
That is wishfull thinking at best. States like California can’t even generate enough power now for current needs, no less if they actually implement their planned gasoline phase out. As I said none of the tech can be recyled, EV batteries and solar cells get dumped in a landfill in 10 years, that is hardly green or eviormentally friendly. Replacing an EV battery in a 10 year old car will cost more than they car is worth, putting the whole car into the waste stream. A gas car has a longer lifespan, longer range and the engine can be recycled at the end of it’s life. As much as some try to frame EV cars as enviormentally friendly, they are just as dirty in the end as gasoline.
Your news sources need to catch up to reality, my dude. The tech is most definitely recyclable and that industry is getting started even as we speak.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a44022888/electric-car-battery-recycling/
https://blog.ucsusa.org/jessica-dunn/how-are-ev-batteries-actually-recycled/
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/05/electric-vehicle-battery-recycling-circular-economy/
And EVs use far fewer resources and produce far less pollution over their lifetime than gasoline/diesel powered cars:
https://www.motortrend.com/features/truth-about-electric-cars-ad-why-you-are-being-lied-to/
Again that isa future dream. There are no large scale facilities that recycle EV batteries or solar cells. You won’t be able to name one because there are none. Almost all of them are currently dumped in landfills. Any articles claiming EVs don’t pollute sugar coat the process leaving out large steps that create pollution and ignore the short lifespan. 10 year old EVs are for the most part useless.
All dreams are for the future. That’s how the future happens. (Ref: Disney’s Carousel of Progress).
There are no facilities yet, but there will be and they are currently being developed. You’re completely wrong about the relative pollution caused by EVs, and clearly didn’t read any of the fine resources that have been posted here by me and others. But if you want to keep your head stuck in the sands of the past, that’s your choice.
I’m not wrong. Your resources are are articles about future hopes. The reality is that EV battery and solar cell production is a dirty process that results in enviormental damage equal to or in most cases worse than gasoline engine production. Would you rather have a couple hundred square foot oil well or hundreds of acres strip mined for lithium? On top of that the end product has a shorter life span resulting in being obsolete with even more waste. A gasoline engined car produced today has a useful life span of 20-30 years and typically 200,000 miles. Because of that it stays out of the waste stream longer producing less enviormental damage than a battery powered product that has to be manufactured more often.
The price is too darn high!
Make a cheaper EV and it’ll sell like ice cream on a hot summer day. Volvo has the right idea with a cheap and competent EV. Chevy had the right idea with the Bolt. Make something that is competent and doesn’t cost $50k.
Prices are too damn high!
https://youtu.be/zqHZWdFVyyQ
The doom and gloom over BEV in media is interesting even though their market share continues to increase. “Cox Automotive reported on October 12 that EV sales volumes set another record in Q3, as total sales of BEVs passed 300,000 for the first time in the US market. That’s a 49.8% increase year-over-year.” From Elektrek. That’s 13 straight quarters of growth.
The rate of growth is now slower than analysts had suggested, and it’s not EV-specific, just the increased interest rates. But they can use that “slowing” demand to get clicks, and companies can use it to reduce production and make more money per unit.
If you aren’t growing exponentially at all times, regardless of the size of the target market, your business is struggling, at least according to day traders.
Many had predicted exponential growth for EVs, but that was obviously optimistic.
This is just a market coming of age
I took the EV plunge this year and bought two of them. A ’22 Bolt EV and a ’23 Tesla M3P.
Because of the price drops stacked with the $7,500 IRA tax incentive, the math is pretty excellent right now.
My real world experience has been even better than I expected.
Cost: The Bolt 2LT was $29,900 before the IRA so $22,400 before taxes and fees. The Model 3 had a nice discount from MSRP for a stock unit. $49,480 before IRA brings it to $41,980 before taxes and fees.
Plus, I have an attached garage and brought in level 2 for $3,800 after GM rebate. I get more back when I do taxes but haven’t explored how much yet. Thought it would end up being another $800 or so IRA help. Call it $3,000 all in.
Charging: As it turns out, being able to refuel in the garage makes charging so convenient, I’ve never had to use public charging for the Bolt or the Tesla. If I did do a road trip, obviously it would be much easier with the Tesla. Once you set up your app at purchase, you just pull up and plug in. Couldn’t be easier. Routing to chargers is built into Nav programming for longer trips.
Range: We’ve done a few road trips and did well once I figured out how to maximize range. Primarily, you just need need to keep highway speeds closer to 60 than 80 and you can do really well. This summer did 162 miles in one shot with the Bolt and had 40% charge left. Just got back from a 226 mile road trip with the M3 and returned with 10% to spare. Keep in mind winter temps knock off range. Got 3.38 miles per kWh on this trip at 40 degree temps with heater on and a good headwind for half the trip. My math shows I could have gone 257 miles on a full charge in much less than ideal conditions. EPA range is 315.
Performance: This is what really sold me. Instant torque, even with the Bolt, is awesome. It makes ICE cars feel old fashioned. The M3P acceleration is hilarious. You actually can cause whiplash to a passenger if you full send at lower speeds, no exaggeration.
And yes, I realize it’s not all about speed. The Bolt handles like a good performance hatch. Not quite GTI level, but more like a warm hatch instead of a hot hatch. Curb weight is 3,500 lbs. which is not far off of an equivalent ICE car.
The M3P is very akin to a BMW M3 series for handling. Track tests suggest the Model 3P is highly competitive with cars like the Giulia QV etc. Curb weight is 4,078 which is roughly the same as other AWD performance sedans.
So, my take is the advantages of EVs outweigh the disadvantages, assuming you are in a position to charge a home. It’s a no brainer for me.
Not sure I like this trend of calling the Tesla Model 3 an M3….
Nothing against electrics or Tesla (well, other than the Musk factor) but M3 is sacred.
I agree and I am a Tesla owner., I do write M3LR on Tesla forums though.
Is M3P ok?
I do get the confusion and understand the sacredness of the M3 name.
The Tesla forums get their undies in a bunch if you don’t write the proper letters either; MP3, MPLR, MYLR, etc.
The reasons for lower interest in EVs can have plenty of other causes ;
I’d argue that performance of EVs, even low-end EVs is the LAST someone would care about who’s considering an EV. “Oh no, this EV only has 300 horsepower, I at least need 400 horsepower for my daily commute, so I won’t buy it”. Perhaps 1% thinks like that. Else we’d have seen the most powerful BMWs, Mercedi, Audis, Corvettes et al everywhere, but we don’t. We see C200s everywhere, 320s, A4s with a 1.8 and V6s from 15 years ago. There might be an anomaly with certain EVs like the Plaid Teslas and the Lucid Air but we don’t see those everywhere. The cheapest Tesla Model 3 though is everywhere.
And if you paid $20k more to get the fastest edition of your EV ; would you like to rollback that decision and keep that $20k in your pocket after you realized you use all that nice power perhaps once a month for 10 seconds?
It’s a bit like buying a 300 Watt Hi-Fi stereo for your home theater while in retrospect you used it 99.9% of all time at volume 2 out of 10. And yeah I understand sometimes the higher end high powered amps had more features and what not ; but in reality you could have been 99.9% content all the time with that 120 watt amp, let’s be honest.
We are made to believe that we need all that power. Nail in the coffin ; a Mazda Miata/MX-5 with less than 200 horsepower drives nicer than a 500 hp 4 ton (lbs) EV in every corner of your canyon carving road trip and it can even be refilled in 5 minutes at Joe’s gas-station in the middle of nowhere.
My 2 cents.
I could get an EV to replace my Prius. Its number one job is “reliable, inexpensive to operate commuter car”, which the Prius is great at and an EV should be able to do as well. I can charge at home in my garage. I cannot charge at work, and I have a long commute, so it needs range. Problem is I don’t want to spend Ioniq 5 money on that car. I don’t want a Tesla, even if I qualify for the tax credit and it is $35k. So I’m basically left with the Bolt. I’m not against the Bolt, but I have to say another Prius is looking pretty good once they have some in stock.
For my wife’s car, we’d probably be spending quite a bit more, but she heads out into the middle of nowhere for events. Until you can reliably find a functional charger in a one stoplight town, and charge in a short period of time, she’ll never consider it.
So we’re looking at hybrids for that car because we also don’t want to get 20 mpg for the next 10 years. We’d like a PHEV in theory, but the price premium for some of them doesn’t seem to be making much financial sense.
I think price is probably the biggest factor in all this, automakers are compl – etely disinterested in selling vehicles- especially electric vehicles – under $40,000, and are increasingly cool to things under $50,000 – and the ones who are seemingly best-positioned to break that trend (Vietnamese and Chinese automakers) are instead more interested in following it. As if people are going to be totally fine spending $60k on an SUV with a brand name that sounds like an Amazon phone charger
YMMV. These are my opinions and mine alone. My wife and I both work from home and have a garage where we can charge and I realize that’s not everyone’s situation.
I own one EV and I’m leasing another. I’ll never buy another liquid-fuel powered car again. I LOVE my EVs and the ownership experience has been far and away better than any other vehicles I’ve ever owned.
I bought the first EV (FIAT 500e) as a lark and after two weeks I was a convert. Even with the 80-ish mile range, the 500e was providing 85% of all our transportation needs (and still does). I got rid of all my gasoline cars and leased a Polestar 2. Why did I lease one instead of buying it? Partially because that was the only way to get the $7500 rebate, but mostly because I don’t know what the EV market is going to look like in 3 years. I didn’t want to be stuck with an outdated EV that I couldn’t sell. I’m really glad I did that because with the conversion of all the EV makers to NACS, my next EV will have a NACS port. That, combined with the improvements in battery technology over the next few years will be more than enough reason to want a newer model.
“I don’t know what the EV market is going to look like in 3 years. I didn’t want to be stuck with an outdated EV that I couldn’t sell.”
Why would you sell it in three years?
Fair question. I believe that in the next 3 – 5 years, we’ll see some significant improvements in EV technology. So, I might sell it to perhaps get a vehicle that can take advantage of the Tesla network (but isn’t a Tesla), or one that has twice the range in a similar sized package (due to battery advances), etc. The uncertainty of how the technology will change in the next few years kept me from wanting to buy at this point. It’s still a young and developing technological market and until things settle down a bit, I’ll probably continue leasing. But one thing is for sure: I’m going to keep driving EVs.
Good enough. I’ll stick to my current, fully paid off ICE cars myself scratched up, dinged and faded as they might be. While I love the idea of buying a newer PH/EV I just can’t make the numbers work out with how little my cars are actually driven. That and the way I treat cars anything newer will end up scratched, dinged and faded soon enough anyway.
For sure. Everyone has to make their own decisions about these things and do whatever is right for them. I ran the numbers for years and couldn’t justify even getting a hybrid, much less an EV. But then I bought little Blueberry (FIAT 500e), almost as a joke, and my whole perspective changed. Like lots of other decisions related to cars, the heart overruled the head.
Well I do have a birthday coming up in a few years….
EVs have finished their “new and cool” phase and now have to compete on merits alone. Their high upfront cost is a tough sell with the current cost of living.
The big jam up is cost. With NACS coming to almost everyone in the next year or two, charging feels settled. Finally! Range is also fine.
I think there is a big chunk of folks who would happily buy a 150mi highway range EV if it held the price down. I want an automaker to take the Licid Air and EX30 approach to a small car. Radical efficiency, smaller pack sizes, less features.
Basically a modernized leaf. Active cooling. 100kw charging. Everything else is given the Lotus treatment to keep weight and cost as low as possible. A modern VW Beetle of sorts?
Range. Cost. Charging. Performance. I work from home, cook my own food, and order lots of Amazon so I only go out for pleasure or road trips. I have several efficient (25+ mph) classic cars that I like driving locally.
I actually like EVs but for someone who mostly uses their good car for long drives, it’s a sucker’s bet.
Why don’t I have plans for an EV in my garage? It makes no financial sense and options are lacking.
I only commute a few times a month, so adding the monthly payment of an EV is definitely going to cost more than any gas savings I’ll realize for my car.
The other vehicle, being a van, does not have a single EV offering. The closest is the Pacifica, but Chrysler products aren’t my thing. Not that it matters now, because similar to my commute, the van also isn’t driven much.
1.Cost, 2.charging, 3.range, 4.performance.
My takeaway from that truly atrocious circle graph is that the 2021 numbers seem suspicious and I’d like to know if there were some shenanigans happening in that survey. If you take out the 2021 part the numbers look a lot more plausible to me and not nearly as alarming. People are starting to realize that EVs are not the immediate answer but hybrids are holding steady. That anecdotally feels right to me. ~90% of the population being interested in EVs/hybrids sounds inflated. More than 10% of the population is going to object to anything with a battery solely for political reasons so I don’t see how the numbers could possibly get that high anytime soon.
I realize I’m objecting to this largely on the basis of gut feeling, but when you see a statistic that far out of line with expectations (and other related statistics, for that matter) I feel like it’s worth taking a closer look.
Cost is first BUT that’s any new car, not just EVs. If you take cost out it simply comes down to me not wanting an EV, period. They just don’t excite me, and even if it was just for transportation I’d be buying a small economy car with a manual I can beat on, not another appliance.
Cost, that’s it. Range – could be 50 miles for all I care, owning a Volt showed that a range of about 40 miles was actually enough for driving on electric most of the time. We’ve got a nice ’94 Fleetwood for long-range trips. Performance? Well, I daily-drove a ’72 Mercedes 220D for about a year. 0-60 in 31 seconds makes one appreciate any level of noticeable acceleration. Charging? Bosch Level 2 EVSE installed out in the garage. It came free with the 2012 Volt I bought in 2016. I have yet to plug in anywhere but work or home.
Back to the cost note, I’m somewhat optimistic about replacing the 2012 Volt, whenever it dies, with a fairly new Bolt at a reasonable cost. Using the Volt purchase as a baseline, I’d have to buy a 2019 or newer Bolt with 40,000 miles or less for under $15K, adjusted for inflation. And… looking at cars.com shows that to actually be within the realm of possibility, especially if tax credits are considered. Cool. Was hoping to get a new Equinox with the tax credit, but between the lack of a $30K variant before credit and getting a new roof on my house recently, that’s now at a near-zero percent possibility.
> Well, I daily-drove a ’72 Mercedes 220D for about a year. 0-60 in 31 seconds makes one appreciate any level of noticeable acceleration.
Whoa, did you have it boosted?
I have a 2015 EV with 80 miles of range and slow charge times. Have range anxiety EVERY day. I wanted to try the tech, but my next car will be gas or hybrid. EVs are too unpredictable, if it’s cold, range is cut, if it’s hot, range is cut. If you drive too aggressively, range is cut. Every time I need to travel greater than 20 miles from home, I drive my track toy gas car.
That chart is junk. The outer rings are a lot longer that the inner rings, suggesting a lot more respondents from one year to the next, mysteriously growing at the same rate as the diameter. SMH.
I’d buy an electric car if they were more reliable and didn’t catch on fire. The Lucid Air and Polestar are very attractive.
It truly is an awful, awful chart. Someone was paid to make that thing.
God I’m glad I’m not the only one who though that graph was stupid. It should have been straight lines, one graph for electric and one for hybrid.
Cost > Charging > *Performance > Range
*I’d like to clarify, I’m using performance not in how we’d typically define it (acceleration, handling, etc.) but rather the utter lack of form factor options, and how the vehicle would perform daily as a car. Can we please have something that’s not a freaking crossover? A van or two maybe? An affordable coupe? A goddamn hatchback? The only non-crossover options are the Model 3 and the Ioniq 6 (I do not include luxury cars in this as they’re so expensive, to me they may as well not exist).
Cost is the issue. I’m a human that needs transportation for myself and my family. Money I spend on getting us around is money I cannot spend elsewhere. I’m willing to spend to make my life suck less when it comes to that, but I’m simply not willing to spend 40k+ on a small EV crossover. It’s not going to happen. Nothing about it would make my life easier; while I have a house, my one car wide driveway and one car garage makes it tricky to position a charger. Public charging is absolute garbage. Sooooo, yeah we have a ways to go.
It’s sad because I’d absolutely get an EV for my next vehicle is automakers dared to make one that I could afford and would fit into my life.
Hey Autopian? Can you kindly email all of these comments to every major manufacturer? It would be nice if they built what we actually want… and know why we don’t like what they are currently offering.
Why? If you live in the US you’ll buy whatever they make for however much they ask because you probably don’t have another realistic choice for traveling more than a few miles.
1) Cost: They’re simply too expensive for what you get. A hybrid makes more sense.
2) Charging: I could charge at home, but I’d need to get higher amperage to my garage. Doable, but a pain and costly. Road trip charging is also a concern, but an EV would be a second vehicle for my family, so there’s another option. A hybrid makes more sense.
3) Range: see above. For day to day it would be fine. For road trips, if there’s a concern we could choose the ICE car.
4) Performance: In my case it would be a commuter, and as far as everyone says the EVs on the market all perform fine-great.
I own an EV and probably wouldn’t buy another. We bought a used Soul EV, watched the range shrink until the battery was warrantied ($14k on Kia). Now we have it back and it will likely do the same thing with this battery. So we have 4~5 years of useful EV left and then it goes to the scrap heap/recycler since there is no way I’d pay $14k out of pocket to put into an aging EV. Not to mention that the range as it ages is spotty and we have 6 months of winter temps to shorten that range too. I will eat a plate full of DT’s finest rust before I spend $40K+ on any vehicle. So that rules out new EVs too. I’ll buy a used hybrid or something.
I have been taking enough trips where I leave before sunrise and need to stop and fill up my little gas tank along the way. Or soon after I leave for back home. It’s not really EV range that bothers me, it’s the time it takes to charge and the availability of working charging stations. PHEV hits the balance for many of us, where we can drive on battery power most of the days, but can also get out there and drive when we have to without too much concern. And, if the Cracker Barrel/Buc-ees/whatever has a charger when we want to take a bit of a break, then the car gets plugged in and gives some battery range to cut down on gas usage. BEV performance is fine. Most of us don’t drive around in a Scat Pack Challenger or Audi S4.
1) COST. I simply cannot afford a new vehicle. The most expensive vehicle I’ve ever bought was a 6-year-old 4Runner in 2019 for $22,300, and even that was not a smart financial decision when compared to my income. Luckily it is paid off and still worth a good chunk of that. Even if I can “afford” the payment on a 30K vehicle, I cannot afford it. With the ever-increasing cost of living, that leaves my monthly cushion far too small.
2) CHARGING. I rent, and do not have a place to charge at home. There are no chargers at work. I don’t even know of any chargers in my town besides a few for guests at one of the newer hotels. Also, different charging networks with different apps sounds like a PITA. Imagine needing to use a different app for Shell, Sunoco, Mobil, etc.
3) RANGE. Not that big of a concern except for the issues of #2. I have around trip 60-mile commute, plugging the car in at home every day or every other day would be great if I had that option. I don’t often make trips of over 300 miles, and I do not mind a half hour rest stop in those occasions. Stretch. grab a bite to eat, walk the dog, hit the head.
4) PERFORMACE. A non-issue for me. I matted the accelerator in my BIL’s ID4 at 30mph, and I’ve never been thrown back in the seat as instantly and firmly as that. My LS1 Firebird doesn’t even hit like that. If I towed, that could be an issue, but I don’t. I like to offroad, but Rivian’s have proven to be quite capable offroad. (not that I can afford one).
For the foreseeable future I’ll be sticking with my 4Runner. If I baby it, I can get 20mpg, which has been working out to about 60/week for fuel. Even with 160K it’s super reliable, I can probably hit double that without major repairs.
I see EV’s as good city or commuter vehicles, but for a lot of people they’re not at the point where they can be an only vehicle. My BIL had owned the ID4 for about a month and he had already had an issue charging, the lot near his work was blocked by construction, so he couldn’t charge during his workday, and as a result had to have my mom pick up his kid while he hit an alternate charging spot after work.
I’m all in on hybrids though, I wouldn’t mind daily-ing a RAV4, Sportage, Elantra, or Prius hybrid. Cost comes back into it though; it would take YEARS for those to pay off vs. my paid off 4Runner.