Ford is claiming that huge efficiencies in its production have resulted in the company being able to drop prices of its F-150 Lightning electric truck by almost $10,000. This, of course, after the company raised prices significantly on the trucks. With the price drop, plus incentive cash, plus federal tax discounts, it’s possible that you can get an electric XLT truck for about the same price as a similarly spec’d gas-powered truck.
The biggest discount is on the fleet-only Pro trim, which sees a $9,979 price reduction to $51,990 including a $1,995 freight charge. Step up to the basic XLT 311A model, the cheapest one retail consumers can actually buy, and you’re looking at a $9,479 price reduction to $56,990 including freight. The slightly posher XLT 312A model sees an $8,479 price cut to $61,990 including freight, while the XLT 312A with the Extended Range battery sees an $8,879 price cut, bringing the sticker to $71,990 including freight.
The standard range Lariat 510A sees the second-smallest price cut in the model range, a $6,979 reduction that brings the sticker price down to $71,990, or exactly the same price as the Extended Range XLT. As with that lower trim, the Extended Range battery on the Lariat trim sees an $8,479 markdown, bringing its price to $79,490. Finally, the king of the range, the Platinum Extended Range, sees the smallest price reduction — a mere $6,079. That brings top-of-the-line pricing down to $93,990 which is still a lot of money.
For greater context, let’s look at the original prices Ford set for the F-150 Lighting way back in early 2022. Fleet-spec Pro model pricing is up a whopping $10,321, although the XLT trim sees a relatively modest price increase of $2,321. Pricing for the Lariat trim is up by $2,821, while Platinum trim pricing is only up $1,421 over pricing at launch. Considering the high inflation we’ve seen over the past few years, the updated pricing for consumer-centric models (remember, the base Pro trim is for fleets) seems quite alright.
Oh, but it gets better. On top of the headlining Ford F-150 Lightning price cuts, the blue oval is sweetening the deal with incentives. Customers who order an XLT or higher trim by the end of July will get a $1,000 cash incentive and interest rates as low as 1.9 percent for 36 months. Given the Fed’s key overnight interest rate right now, that’s hugely incentivized financing on a product that, for the most part, has been historically desirable. Typically, manufacturers don’t place incentives on new vehicles unless they’re in oversupply, and that’s exactly what seems to be happening.
As Reuters reports, Ford dealerships are sitting on 86 days of F-150 Lightning inventory as of July 11, significantly above June’s 53-day average reported by the analysts at Cox Automotive. For a vehicle that was once being flipped for massive profit, the slump of the F-150 Lightning is difficult to ignore. However, in today’s high interest rate environment, affordability is critical and America’s drivers just might not have the funds to roll around in pricey electric pickup trucks. Of course, the current gas-versus-electric culture war may also play a role in slowing demand, but by and large, payment rules the day.
How does Ford characterize it?
Ford is taking advantage of increased plant capacity, continued work on scaling production and cost, and improving battery raw material costs to help lower the MSRP of F-150 Lightning® for all customers.
The Rouge Electric Vehicle Center in Michigan is temporarily closed to complete final plant upgrades to triple the plant’s annual run rate to a targeted 150,000 F-150 Lightning trucks beginning this fall.
The upgrades at the plant, combined with improving battery raw material costs and continued work on scaling production and cost, help make it possible to lower pricing across the F-150 Lightning line. Customers will now have greater availability of their built-to-order truck as early as October at an MSRP closer to initial Lightning pricing.
“Shortly after launching the F-150 Lightning, rapidly rising material costs, supply constraints and other factors drove up the cost of the EV truck for Ford and our customers,” said Marin Gjaja, chief customer officer, Ford Model e. “We’ve continued to work in the background to improve accessibility and affordability to help to lower prices for our customers and shorten the wait times for their new F-150 Lightning.”
That could definitely be a part of what is going on here. We’re in this weird transition period where EV production is ramping up but prices are still so high that we’re running out of people who will only buy an EV.
Still, this seems like a good deal. In theory, after price reductions, cash incentives, and the $7,500 Inflation Reduction Act EV tax credit, it should be possible to pick up an F-150 Lightning XLT for $48,490, which seems reasonable in the grand scheme of crew cab all-wheel-drive pickup trucks. A standard F-150 XLT SuperCrew 4×4 with the base naturally-aspirated V6 engine and zero options comes out to north of $50,000, which means we’re theoretically looking at EV-to-ICE price parity on certain F-150s. Of course, we’ll still have to see how consumers bite. It’s a strange market out there, so it might take some time for Ford to clear its inventory backlog.
(Photo credits: Ford)
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Efficiencies my arse. Ford raised prices to take advantage of a market position and is now having to cut prices because no one wants to pay. They get mad a dealerships for charging ADM’s but did the same thing.
My family has been hauling boats 120 miles up 3000 ft elevation change for the last 70 years. From what I can tell the ford lightning can’t make this journey. Add that to the fact that basically every electric vehicle will be a paper weight no matter how many miles you have on it in 10-15 years make it economically and and environmentally irresponsible.
You’re right that if you are towing long distances up hills, an EV truck doesn’t make sense. That’s because regenerative braking helps in regular driving, but batteries don’t have the raw energy that a tank of gas does.
However, for pretty much every other use case – including putting a boat in the water locally, that is not a problem. There are lots of truck buyers for whom long distance towing is not a thing.
The fact that a battery needs to be replaced at 10-15 years does not make the truck “environmentally irresponsible”. The amount of emissions saved over that time more than makes up for the battery replacement. From a lifetime energy cost perspective, EVs are typically better than gas counterparts at about 60K miles. Replacing the battery once around 150K miles only adds to the environmental benefit of the truck.
Now account for the fact that the battery replacement in a decade will be at a far lower price than today’s batteries. After you factor in all the oil changes and maintenance on an ICE vehicle, plus the savings on energy, the EV truck will have a far lower total cost of operation than the ICE truck.
Finally, a replacement pack for a common truck like the Lightning will likely have a higher density battery due to cell improvements, so the truck will actually get more range after the swap than it had before.
I very much look forward to the future with the advancements in battery technology and potential recycling.
I’d like to see your math saying that at 60k electric cars are better. I’m sure you are assuming that all the electricity is generated from renewables and negating any environmental impacts of mining to make the renewable energy and the batteries.
Here is the actual math, national average electricity rate: $0.23 / kwhr, national average gas price $3.563. It will cost you $26722 to drive 150k in gas and $16560 in the ford lightning, so its not a slam dunk, especially if it will cost more than the vehicle is worth to do a battery replacement that will certainly be needed at 150k. And if you ever tow you will need the extended range battery pack which is $15k more expensive than the standard range for some reason. Also electricity cost on the road is way more expensive at $0.31 /kwhr.
Ford needs to leverage its BOF construction of the Lightning and sell more than 1 bed, cab, and seating configuration. Chevy and Ram are coming out with unibody short bed pickups that out preform the F-150 and for less money (once production picks up), if Ford continues to treat the lightning like a Unibody pickup They’ll lose to the better unibody pickups.
Practically speaking there is nothing stopping them from fitting a 6 seat interior in the existing “Super Crew” cab and a 6.5ft bed on the existing frame like a regular “Super Crew” cab F-150.
However they should make single cab and extended cab variants and long bed and regular bed variants respectively as well.
I’ll never again underestimate Ford’s ability to fumble the ball within pissing distance of the end zone with the enemy team nowhere near them.
Price adjustments occurring only when the next model year was introduced instead of swinging back and forth like the NASDAQ feels like the “good ol, days.” Why would any normal consumer manage spending mid to high five figures of their hard earned money on an item where the price could swing 10% or more either way in the blink of an eye?
If the U.S. BEV market collapses, these unpredictable price swings causing consumer to stay on the sidelines will be a major factor.
Every lightning within 100km of me is still priced over or very near to $100,000 CAD
I work in an industry that heavily relies on trucking. Full load, LTL, vans, reefers, Conestogas, you name it. I used to think these freight charges were bullshit…
…and I still do.
You can’t tell me someone isn’t making beaucoup bucks on those freight charges. These days, I can buy large appliances and small machines worth several thousand dollars and still get free shipping. Yet we’re forced to pay artificially inflated freight charges on what is the second most expensive purchase outside of a house? I’m not sure whether I’m more insulted by the fact that it’s non-negotiable (yes, I’m sure your uncle got them to take it off, but you know it was shuffled somewhere else in the numbers) just to pad their profit numbers. At a minimum, covering this bogus cost should be one of the “benefits” dealerships provide us, because God knows they aren’t good for much else…even though we all know they’d hide that in the numbers too. The whole thing is as infuriating as service fees added to basic goods and services.
I know they’re BS because:
-Charges for cars built overseas are often less than for those built here.
-The automaker won’t waive it if I pick up the vehicle at the factory (yes, I’ve asked if this was possible)
You mean like the $900 “documentation fee”. I could go have an actual attorney do my DMV paperwork for less than $900.
I’d also offer to do it myself for a $900 discount, but I doubt they’ll do that too.
Isn’t it just a device to advertise lower MSRP? Such horse poo.
Imagine being one of the dupes who paid 100K+ on a Lariat
MY25 is gonna be a wild time for EV trucks, because almost everyone will be at volume production and using the NACS plug. The EV tax credit will also be usable point of sale, which should make it a bit more accessible to people who maybe don’t want to have as much capital outlay.
The used deals will excellent.
Amazing how competition helps cut prices. Plus, potential owners don’t want to spend that much dough on a vehicle and then stand around on a trip waiting for it to charge. Until battery technology is up to speed, eliminate range anxiety with hybrid drivetrains.
I don’t see how anyone can buy any EV with any confidence that the price won’t swing by 5 figures one way or another next week.
Condolences to anyone who bought one last week and not only paid $10,000 more, but also now has to eat the new-found depreciation.
Ford can’t even buy them off with the usual ” here’s a couple free oil changes” strategy.
Also, this is the future of the no haggle direct sales model. Before, you might have suspected the next guy got a better deal on his truck than you did. Now you’ll know it with certainty.
No one should be buying EVs right now. If you finance one you’re a fool, if you pay cash for one you’re even worse. If I was looking at cars right now I’d avoid them like the plague…but if you really want one/they’re ideal for your needs you should lease one. Or wait a year or two when first gen EVs will be going for half of what they were originally listed for or less.
To say that the market for them is volatile would be putting it lightly, and the wild price swings lead me to believe that all the manufacturer boo-hooing about how they simply HAVE to charge $80,000 for them to make any money is, as I predicted, complete and utter bullshit
I’ll be very interested to see if governments start walking back their ridiculous EV mandates….because if it wasn’t clear that they aren’t ready for mass adoption yet (any enthusiast could have told you they weren’t months ago) it’s getting clearer by the day.
PHEVs and traditional hybrids are the best solutions for right now.
I actually believe this to an extent; the price drops are just a willingness to lose (more) money/take a writeoff for socially acceptable goals. Maybe posturing ahead of UAW negotiations?
Don’t hold your breath on this one. Imagine a political party announcing retreat on one of its absolute core issues in 2023. Obviously no one would be more delighted than me to see every EV mandate ripped up, but I can’t see it happening except by court decision (that would secretly relieve the people who know it’s a massive mistake but can’t say so publicly).
Agreed, I don’t think Ford can sell these at the new reduced price profitably. Actually, I don’t think they can sell them at the old high price profitably, they’re just losing even more money now.
I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Tesla is the only company to ever turn a profit on a production North American electric car.
Profitability comes with economies of scale. The Lightning factory is down as we speak being updated in order to triple it’s previous run rate to 150,000 trucks/year.
They weren’t going to sell 150k trucks/year at those prices, but they have a much better chance at these prices where the base Lightning (4×4, Supercrew, 775ftlb torque, not stripped option-wise) basically matches the price of the absolute slowest, cheapest, zero-option, gas Supercrew 4×4 after tax credit.
The most frustrating thing about this take is that, at least in the US, hybrids are explicitly included in the EV mandate.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/documents/cars-and-light-trucks-are-going-zero-frequently-asked-questions#:~:text=Yes.%20California%20is%20only%20requiring,and%20fuel%20cell%20electric%20vehicles.
Is every state with a mandate the same? If so, coverage of the issue has been incredibly and universally misleading.
The federal tax credit includes plug-in hybrids and Californias “ban” still allows some percentage of plug-in hybrids.
Correct, maximum 20% PHEV.
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-moves-accelerate-100-new-zero-emission-vehicle-sales-2035
While that is better than 0%, it will hardly make up for the deficiencies of EVs as they currently exist. A breakthrough or two will still be needed at minimum.
This is true, and I remain disappointed that PHEVs aren’t being talked about more. We have a great solution that works for most people right now but we’re ramming BEVs down everyone’s throat instead of exploring it more.
I’m not a fan of PHEVs for these reasons:
Maintenance on a PHEV engine is based on how much the engine actually runs. So you pay for it as you need it. I’m looking at oil changes every 20,000-25,000 miles or so. Which means the gas powertrain is aging at 1/4th the rate of a gas car or less. At 200,000 miles, my engine will have approximately the same wear as a gasser has at 50,000. By then I might need a second replacement air filter…
My Honda PHEV’s transmission is probably the best possible configuration other than direct gearing. It’s amazing how smoothly it works. It’s an incredibly clever design that you really should investigate.
PHEVs have huge charge buffers at both full and empty. A battery change isn’t any more necessary than in an EV because the engine protects the battery from excessive discharge. Also, aftermarket prices are very reasonable and in steady decline, and availability has been rising steadily as well.
PHEVs really are the current best possible solution, especially for trucks and SUVs. We need more of them on the road. Toyota is part way there, with their emphasis on hybrids, but they need to add a plug for the battery. Honda and Chevy had great solutions, but aren’t building them anymore. Everyone else seems so clueless.
20% PHEV, and another important point: this is only for light trucks. HD trucks, the ones doing ultra-heavy or long distance towing and such, aren’t affected by this.
If you can still have gas/diesel HD trucks and 20% PHEVs, I think it’s a lot more reasonable goal to reach for *sales* of new cars 12 years from now.
The fleet average will still be far lower than 80% EVs, but in 12 years, it’s feasible that MY2035 EVs could cover nearly 80% of use cases if heavy trucks use cases are excluded. 50% of people buying NEW cars would be easy. Maybe they have to adjust it down some from 80%, but it’s not a totally insane goal with those carve-outs and 12 years to work on it.
The biggest issue, IMO, is charging for people that live in apartments and such.
Not accurate, as far as I can tell:
https://dieselnet.com/standards/us/ca_zev_hd.php
“By 2035, zero-emission truck/chassis sales would need to be 55% of Class 2b-3 truck sales, 75% of Class 4-8 straight truck sales, and 40% of truck tractor sales.”
2b-3 is consumer-grade HD trucks (3/4 and 1 ton).
So, they are excluded from the specific law we were talking about, but have a different requirement at a lower percentage than “regular cars”. Seems reasonable. Some of them can work with less range, as well, like Semis running set routes don’t need country-crossing range. Maybe should be a lower percentage than 55%, though. Depends what the options look like in 2035.
It really has been in a lot of ways. As someone who has been involved in various scales of manufacturing and battery research, there’s this weird sense of “can this really be done” in the media.
The answer is yes. It will happen faster than it seems possible. There are already battery chemistries functional at the lab scale that are projected to have a manufacturing cost of about $9 per KWh. For reference, that means you could build a battery to backup a house with ac running cold for a month for about $12k. A battery like one in the Hummer would cost about 2k, and you could build one for a miata for about $500. Those will be manufactured in volume by 2035, and solid state batteries should be volume manufactured about 2026. They won’t be as cheap, but they’ll be below the $100 per KWh parity price for a ICE vehicle. Renewables are already the cheapest form of electricity in history, even accounting for the capacity factor (depending on location. Places like texas are even cheaper than buying natural gas since about 2018) https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/08/wind-power-prices-now-lower-than-the-cost-of-natural-gas/amp/
Things are about to get really cheap and really fun assuming there’s enough competition to keep greed at bay.
You’ll forgive me if I remain skeptical given how often battery breakthroughs have been promised the last two decades while every EV sold today still uses the same battery chemistry as a 2008 Tesla Roadster.
Example: Toyota in “production engineering” of solid state batteries in 2017, expected to debut in a 2022MY vehicle.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/toyota-wants-to-commercialize-solid-state-ev-batteries-by-2022-reports-say/
If/when it happens, I’ll celebrate.
Until then, I’ll continue waiting for my 500 highway miles at 0 degrees F vehicle.
That’s totally fair. I don’t trust Toyota to do something until it happens.
I do feel it important to point put however that batteries chemistries are very different now than from 08. Yeah, they are still often Lithium Ion for large traction batteries, but there are a multitude of little differences that have accumulated over the years, not to mention alternative chemistries like Lifepo. They used different voltages, have different thermal characteristics, and have much greater durability.
But yeah, I hope they can push timelines ahead a but further. I just want my 500 mile maverick sized pickup. I know it’s possible, I’ve done the sims. Just build it damnit! xD
There are multiple different chemistries in use, now. Over half of Teslas are Lithium Iron Phosphate, now, for instance.
That’s an even worse chemistry for energy density than a 2008 Roadster, including it makes the case worse, not better.
No, it’s not “worse”. It’s got pros and cons vs other chemistries. It’s lower energy density than some others, but it’s more stable, it has longer life (charge cycles vs degradation), can handle higher daily charge levels (charge to ~100% vs ~80%), and they don’t use Cobalt (which is what children are mining a percentage of in Africa).
I mean sure, but the overwhelming uphill struggle with EVs is that a gallon of gas contains 34 kWh of energy and weighs 6 lb.
A 34 kWh Li-ion battery is more like 400-500 lb.
Yes, energy density is worse, for sure, although gas containing 34kWh of energy is a little misleading since gas engines can only use like 30% of that, and waste the rest.
Also, plenty of people use Standard Range Teslas for trips, despite having LFP batteries. So, for efficient vehicles, they’re usable for many use cases. We’ll see how it goes in trucks. Ford is supposedly going to put them in the “standard range” Lightnings soon. They won’t work for trucks doing lots of long-distance towing anytime really soon, but will work for many typical truck use cases.
I’ve had my RWD Model 3 for a month. Just did 2 trips from Charleston SC to DC and back. 4000 miles already. I’ve paid a total of $12 charging at home (3 months free super charging, free 14-50 plug at work). I never wanted a Tesla, I wanted a PHEV. However I’m a big LFP believer, and buying a new car for $32000 after tax credit is ok for me.
while every EV sold today still uses the same battery chemistry as a 2008 Tesla Roadster.
Is the same as saying that every gasoline powered vehicle today uses the same chemistry as 100 years ago.
I don’t think this is accurate for ALL EVs, but the ones that seem overpriced compared to the competition and ICE, sure, those are higher risk. There are cases where that’s not true and risk is low, however.
Inventory Model 3s are as low as $38k or so, right now, with $7500 tax credit available. It’s not a huge risk to buy one of those. Same with the Model Y. Both are a good value in general, now, after the recent price cuts, which is why Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world for Q1 2023 and behind only F-150/Ram/Silverado in the US.
Lightnings, however, were generally priced too high, when the base verson was $60k. That made it still slightly more expensive than a comparable gas truck even after tax credit.
Now, it’s about $5k *cheaper* than a comparably-equipped/powerful gas truck after tax credit. Much safer than it was yesterday.
For another example of a time when someone can comfortably buy: Ford was selling some of the base Lightnings for $40k before tax credit, so $32,500 after tax credit. Not only should people buy that, they would be a complete idiot not to.
So, IMO, it’s an overgeneralization to say “no one should buy an EV right now.” It’s relatively clear which ones are high risk and which are low risk and buyers should evaluate that.
I would love to buy a Lightning but you are right, it makes no sense when the price is a moving target. I understand the pandemic was a black swan for product planners, but the whole Lightning roll out was a CF
years ago, not months. we have never been ready and we are decades away from being close. Until there is significantly more nuclear power plants in the USA we won’t be ready.
If solid state batteries are really “almost there”, these EVs will look like a late 70’s 400 ci V8 putting out 120 hp and getting 12 mpg versus today’s 4-cylinder putting out 180 hp and getting 38 mpg.
Well isn’t that special? So is Elon also setting the MSRP at FORD these days?
and the other manufacturers said they wouldn’t play those games. Well watch it domino. I also don’t see 90% of the hate that Musk got for those moves, for literally seeing the problem and having the will to make the changes needed, months ahead of the competition. But that’s the crowd.