Welcome back! On today’s thrilling episode of Shitbox Showdown, we’re looking at two cars that would be very cool to own – if you’ve got the patience, money, and nerve to take them on. Before you dismiss one or the other out of hand, I’ll just spare you the suspense and tell you up front that both of them start and run, and they’re both manuals.
But before we get to those, yesterday’s minivan battle needs settling. The Ford Aerostar won, as I suspected it might, having two more cylinders and five more seats, but I don’t think it’s as cut-and-dried as all that. A GMC Safari may seem like a big and heavy vehicle to lug around with a 99 horsepower four-cylinder, and it is, but you’re forgetting that there is another small van powered by the same Iron Duke engine, one that you see every day, even a decade-plus after the end of its planned lifecycle: the Grumman LLV mail truck.
Every Saturday, at around noon, I hear it buzzing up my hill: that little white right-hand-drive box full of letters, working hard. Neither rain nor sleet, nor my steep-ass road, nor a zillion miles on the odometer, will stay that not-so-speedy courier from its appointed rounds. I expect this Safari van is much the same. And while the Ford’s automatic is made of Silly Putty and hope, the GMC’s TH700R4 barely even notices the meager torque of that little four-cylinder. I’m on Team Duke here.
Now, a nice sturdy minivan is fine and all, but life would be boring if every car were reliable. Thank goodness we have makes like Land Rover and Saab to keep things interesting. Neither of these cars is quite ready for prime-time, but you can turn the key in either one and the engine will start. And one of them you can even drive home! See if you can guess which one before scrolling down.
1984 Saab 900 Turbo – $3,300
Engine/drivetrain: Turbocharged 2.0 liter overhead cam inline 4, five-speed manual, FWD
Location: San Diego, CA
Odometer reading: 121,000 miles
Runs/drives? Runs fine, but has no brakes
Certain cars are just emblematic of their marques; when you think of the brand, you think of that particular car. For me, and probably for a lot of other fifty-something car nuts these days, when you say “Saab,” this is what we picture: a mid-1980s three-door 900 Turbo. Earlier and later ones were cool, but to me, this is Peak Saab.
All the elements are there: the backwards-facing turbocharged engine, the curved windshield, the ignition switch in the center console, and that gigantic rear hatch with a spoiler along the bottom of the rear window. It’s an iconic shape, and it still looks futuristic even thirty-nine years after it was built. So many of these have rusted away over the years that it’s nice to see a clean one, and of course it’s sunny Southern California where you find such a creature.
This Saab was purchased as a father-son project, but the seller soon realized he was in over his head. The car runs well, and it would be drivable, except that the brake pedal goes to the floor. The seller suspects a bad master cylinder, and I think that’s a good place to start. There’s also mention of some disintegrating insulation on some wiring at the fusebox, which to me sounds like a whole bunch of gremlins waiting to happen, but at the moment the car is electrically functional.
Cosmetically, all it needs are a new headliner and new taillights; one is ripped and the other cracked. But neither is bad enough to keep you from enjoying the car, at least once you fix the brakes and sort out the wiring. That shouldn’t take too long… right?
1995 Land Rover Discovery – $2,500
Engine/drivetrain: 3.9 liter overhead valve V8, five-speed manual, 4WD
Location: Austin, TX
Odometer reading: 120,000 miles
Runs/drives? Yessir
If you prefer your trouble-prone European cars with a bit more off-road acumen, never fear: I’ve got you covered. This is a first-generation Land Rover Discovery, but not just any Discovery – this is one of the few sold in the US with a manual transmission. I would never presume to refer to something mass-produced as a “Holy Grail,” but if I had to guess, this SUV is probably even rarer than David’s beloved manual Grand Cherokees.
That five-speed gearbox sits behind a 3.9 liter version of Rover’s venerable aluminum V8, which of course began life as a Buick/Oldsmobile engine in 1961, before being sold to Rover in 1965. Rover got its money’s worth out of that deal, keeping the little V8 in production for four more decades. This one runs well, according to the seller, and the gearbox shifts smoothly.
The rest of the truck, however, could use some help. The interior is pretty well trashed, lots of things are broken on the outside, and from the looks of it, the sunroof and windshield have both been sealed with blobs of silicone. And I fear that the open windows may not be able to close properly.
On the plus side, there’s no rust, and it looks straight. The big aftermarket ARB bull-bar is a nice touch. This could be a good basis for an off-road toy that stands out in the usual sea of XJ Jeeps. It may never be nice again, but it’s still capable.
There are plenty of known-reliable cars out there. Some of them are even interesting and fun to drive. But it’s a mistake to dismiss cars like these simply because they’re cantankerous. Likewise, it’s foolish to think that these cars are special because they’re difficult; choosing unreliable high-maintenance cars doesn’t make you somehow more of a gearhead than Toyota fans. But if a Saab or a Land Rover speaks to you, then you ought to listen, and if that means keeping your AAA membership up to date, then so be it. Which one of these is speaking your language?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
This is an odd one as I already own one of each… but a manual Disco sounds like fun
well I already own an elderly land rover so, why not double down and go saab? :shrug:
Both of these are interesting, and would draw plenty of attention when properly fixed up, but to buy, own and restore either?
Is there a third option today to run away screaming from both?
Funny, I was thinking that they are both so cheap that I’d take both and count on one of them running on any particular day….
Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab.
Even with no brakes and impending electrical work it will be the more reliable vehicle and by far more fun (for me) to drive when running.
I got down to “has no brakes” and still wasn’t sure which one you meant would be drivable, since the Saab’s lightweight and manual.
Having limped a five-speed 900 – albeit a N/A NG900 – with a leaky brake line to the shop successfully, having once sat in the driver’s seat of a rough SPG, and having no use for a farm/off-road-grade Disco, it’s an easy choice for me.
Besides, sunset plates, if you live in CA! Well, at least one sunset plate.
No offense to the Disco, but that Saab would win damn near any Shitbox Showdown competition that you could come up with (for me anyway). It’s a good price even with the issues that need to be addressed. If that example were available near me, It’d be reallllllly tough to not end up with it in my garage.
As a serial Saab owner (2-3 dozen of them over the years and five Saabs at the moment), I’m voting Land Rover.
The brake master is no biggie to change, but they’re getting really hard to find. If you need brake calipers for an early 900, it’s junkyards or checking with fellow Saab parts hoarders. The biggest challenge is that the wiring harnesses on these are an early example of ‘biodegradable’. Anything beyond normal heating makes the insulation just rot away… and the main part of the car’s harnesses run under the center console, and the heat from the cat rots out the heat shield. If you’re wanting a sh*tbox classic 900, look for a later car (’88 is the sweet spot, ’89 if someone has replaced the motorized mouse seatbelts, with no ABS or airbag).
When they’re working and the gearbox hasn’t fragged, early 16v 900 turbos still haul it and this car looks like a very solid project base for someone.
Remember: You can’t spell Saaab without “AAA”.
The Disco? Baked but rust-free, and so long as it’s working, would be an adequate tow rig or a fun off-road toy. Manual gearbox is a huge bonus.
I don’t think I realized Saab ever had motorized belts, just assumed with their safety rep that they had an airbag in time. Which I guess it did by ’90 so ’89 was just one year only; or if they had planned it when the law was still supposed to be passive restraints for both front passengers by 1990, before that was relaxed to ’94?
’89 only. I legit loved them because they never worked, you just slide under the should belt and you can click the lap belt with one hand while turning the ignition with your other.
Ah, just like the belts in my ’94 Saturn SC2 when I got it as my first car.
There was a year or two that Alfa Romeo had automatic belts in the Spider convertible, mounted inboard in sort of an inverse way, and I greatly want to see that in action, but anytime I’ve looked for info on it I find diagrams of how it looked and posts about how it never worked.
That Disco will get towed a lot more than it will tow anything.
The saab is beautiful and I’d love to have it! I’ve never been big on Land Rovers, personally
I’ll vote Disco both because I’ve wrenched on these rather extensively and therefore it doesn’t scare me one bit, plus Disco 1’s deserve more love in general. Most everything about it looks like it can be put right by taking things apart and putting them back together the right way.
But I’m really in the Why not both? camp. Neither vehicle appears to need heavy repairs. Both are outstanding cars and just need some love to bring them back to being fun to drive.
Dang, I was all about team Disco, as I love them despite their many flaws, but that Saab is pretty darn nice and the community behind them is nearly as solid as the Discovery community. I never thought I’d pick a 900 over a Land Rover, but here we are.
I’d say the Disco, because honestly if there isn’t any rust and the body is straight you can give it a new coat of paint, replace the busted plastic bits and interior. Then stick it on BaT and make a nice chunk of change.
If you can see the wiring issues, you can splice them fairly easily with a new harness, or just good quality wire, and brakes are no biggie. Saab for me!
Flip flopped a few times on this one. Was set to vote Saab, but thought it a bad sign if a father/son team bought it as a project and then gave up on it over just brakes. So was going to go Disco until I read that the windshield and sunroof were caulked, which means they still leak. So went with the Saab today.
I’m driving a borrowed 9-5 Aero wagon this week, as my best friend is a Saab guy. So it’s Saab all the way. Someone could get a lot of pleasure out of it, and the price seems pretty reasonable for the San Diego area.
Saab, please.
Electrical work isn’t anyone’s favorite, but brakes aren’t that tough … and despite my lingering concerns about the 900 missing its lower bodyside molding, it’s still one of my all-time faves. Weekend Rob (who I’m glad to see weigh in) can have the Landie.
imo something that sets saabs apart is that it actually is possible to get to the bottom of any electrical issues you encounter.
I can’t believe I’m typing this, but the Disco is the move here. Manual trans and that engine is actually pretty solid. The Saab’s likely future electrical issues scare me.
Also, you’re right the Safari was the move yesterday and didn’t deserve to lose. It will run and run and run.
Saab, all day, every day. This one’s barely broken in. I put over 500k on my ‘86 900 Turbo before the frame rotted (coastal flooding). If this hasn’t been thrashed to death, the motor will pull forever. These cars did shed headliners like a snake shucks its skin, but that’s an easy repair. Also, it’s red!
Oh gosh, Mark, you really are targeting me on this one. Now THIS is a two-car solution. I’d personally have to go with the Disco… those manuals are a dime-a-dozen and the 3.9 is significantly more reliable than the 4.6 in my Disco 2.
It’s also pre 3 amigos so that is a double score.
Not the remotest interest in the LR and I have an odd affection for Saabs (is that redundant?), maybe tinged by a hint of nostalgia which is highly unusual for me, but there it is. These remind me of a path not taken that maybe I should have, though she drove a convertible version… Enough of that crap, I love the interiors of the 900s and the values on these have gone up a bit, especially around here where they’ve gotten quite rare, but was once a top market for them. Replace the brake system (a reasonable expectation, anyway, for a car that old) and expect to do a bunch of rewiring which is more time than money and the rest looks really nice and is a good spec. Worst case, I could yank the seats and see if I could fit them in the GR86.
My thought process:
Hmm, the Saab has a brake issue and wiring problems. We hate wiring problems. They frighten us to no end.
The other one is….a Land Rover.
Saab for me!
When I think SAAB, it’s the 96, but immediately followed by the 9000 Turbo—in cocaine white for some reason. Hydraulics & piping I can deal with, so I’ll take the console keyed car here.
I’m not up on Land Rovers, but don’t think I’ve ever seen one with a rubber mat on the hood like that before. Anyone?
I was wondering what that was on the LR hood.
I think Sonett IIIs, 900 SPGs in that gray-green color.
I believe that is checkered/diamond plating on the hood. I know that you were able to order a NAS Defender with similar material on the hood, fenders, door panels, etc. It’s odd to see it on a Disco, though.
https://www.britishdefenders.com/product-page/defender-90-110-hood-checker-diamond-plate-black
open windows that might not close? NOPE
I can smell it from here.
I’ll gamble on that very pretty SAAB.
The windows potentially not closing or otherwise operating intermittently is likely to be caused by a bad solder joint on a controller board that can be accessed by removing the glovebox door/tray. Getting the board out of its plastic box is actually more fiddly and annoying then the simple soldering job needed to fix it. Once in a while the offending resistor needs to be replaced, but it’s no big deal to anyone who’s ever soldered wires or traditional “discrete” electronic components.
Both the Disco and the SAAB have electricals/electronics from the same era — and in some systems. quite possibly the same global suppliers. The Disco actually has few Lucas bits outside of the GEMS engine management computer (which is simple, reliable, and excellent, by the way!) — most everything else is Bosch or TRW. (The window controller, all of which are fundamentally faulty and will break down at the same solder point, is TRW, not Lucas.) The Rover’s occasionally troublesome “stepper motor”, AKA throttle position sensor, is Lucas and sometimes considered hard-to-find or expensive — but it’s actually an AC-Delco part used in countless GM engines, and commonly cross-referenced to an Astro van with a V6!
Electrically speaking, neither vehicle is terribly bad to deal with. It’s more a matter of working out the logical layout of circuits and tracing lines through relays and separate circuits, and then repairing bad connections or old conventional parts that have gotten dodgy with age. More of an exercise in patience — it typically costs more in time than in money to exorcise the gremlins.
Agreed that electrical gremlins in that era of car aren’t all that scary to someone with any level of competence using a soldering iron. A lot of those problems are surprisingly fixable without having to spend major money with a mechanic.
I voted Saab, but I want both really.
To quote RCR paraphrasing the Beastie Boys: LISTEN ALL YA’LL IT’S SAABOTAGE!
I can fix brakes.
I can buy a lot of electrical tape.
I like red.
Saab for me!