Hey! I’m Stuart, I’m a licensed insurance agent, and as part of our partnership with The Autopian, I’m excited to be here to answer any and all of the burning insurance questions you’ve got! I was chatting with the Autopian crew, and I heard that one of the questions that comes up most for this community revolves around insurance for modified cars. So let’s get into it!
[Ed note: This is our first “partner post,” wherein we have a sponsor of the site post about what they do. Instead of the usual branded content that tries to hide what it is, we want to be straightforward and clear. Marble is a great partner and has some interesting posts planned that should answer any questions you have about the world of car insurance. Please ask questions in the comments if you have them and sign up for Marble, which is a useful tool that allows you to track your policies and rewards you for doing so. Plus, Marble helps support the site. This post was originally published two weeks ago, and we’re re-running it. – MH]
Will standard insurance carriers still underwrite my car, or do I need specialty insurance?
Unfortunately, insurance companies won’t automatically cover modifications you make to your vehicle. This is because most standard auto policies only cover the original equipment included by the manufacturer. So that means you’re probably going to need speciality insurance — specifically, you’ll need something called (surprise!) “modified car insurance.”
Modified car insurance is a type of insurance that covers aftermarket parts and vehicle upgrades — which means that once you have it, you *will* have enough coverage for your entire vehicle, including all the fancy new (or old!) parts. But there’s an important distinction here: a lot of the question of whether you need modified car insurance depends on the types of modifications you’re making.
If you’re making standard performance modifications — like adding new tires to your car — you likely don’t need to worry about getting additional insurance. Non-performance parts, as we’ll call them, are usually no trouble, so it’s just a matter of reporting them to your insurer to make sure they’re aware. That being said (there’s always a but!), there’s usually a limit to what you can insure this way (i.e. if your car starts to have all replacement parts, even if they’re non-performance, you’re probably pushing the limit) — so check with your carrier.
If you’re making aesthetic modifications (like new wheels) or performance modifications (like turbocharging, lowering/lifting, or like, anything to make your car go super fast), then yes, you’ll definitely want modified car insurance. And if you’re adding performance parts to upgrade the car you use daily, you may need a whole new policy.
Which leads me to our next point: some insurance providers might require a separate modified car insurance policy, whereas others might have add-on plans that cover custom or performance parts. I’ll start to sound like a broken record here, but you’ll want to check with your current provider to understand your options with them.
If I modify my car, what will that do to my insurance pricing?
So… modifying your car with performance parts is 100% going to screw up your standard insurance policy. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news! And most of the time, it means your insurance costs are going to go up. That’s because repairing or replacing modified parts is usually more expensive, which means you need to pay more to insure those parts.
To calculate how much your pricing will go up, you’ll likely have to work with an appraiser to list and value your performance parts. That’s because modified car insurance is usually a replacement-cost policy, which means it covers the value of each of the modified parts on your vehicle. Once you have that list of parts, you’ll work with your agent to come to an agreement on the vehicle’s overall value. While this type of policy will probably end up costing you more than a standard policy, you’re going to get much better coverage.
So do I actually need to get modified car insurance, or can I just wing it?
We are here delivering bummer after bummer (no one ever said insurance was a laugh!), but the short answer is: yes, you need that extra coverage. That’s because if you don’t list modifications on your policy, the entire policy can be voided by the insurer for what they call “material misrepresentation.” If that happens, you’ll likely have to pay for any claims out of pocket. And on the extreme end, it could also mean your insurance company won’t pay to replace your totaled or stolen vehicle.
In some ways, you can think of this not as an “insurability” issue, but rather as a “value” issue. Your car became more valuable with the upgrades you made, so you want enough insurance coverage to reflect that value – and to get paid out accordingly if needed.
What’s the best way to protect the value of my modified car?
First, if you’ve just made a few standard upgrades, you’re likely ok on your current standard policy. That being said, talk to your insurer to make them aware of the changes.
If you’ve made more serious aesthetic or performance upgrades, you’ll want to make sure you buy a modified insurance policy, and then work with your agent (and possibly an appraiser) to account for all the upgrades you’ve made. Most policies cover the actual cash value (ACV) of the car, but you’ll want your policy to cover the stated value instead — which is something your agent can update.
And here’s a hot tip if you’re still just thinking about making modifications to your car: Consider getting quotes ahead of time for planned upgrades. That can help you budget while also ensuring that adding a certain part to your vehicle won’t increase your insurance rates more than you can handle.
Can I stop reading this now?
Yes! Wow! I just rambled about insurance more than anyone wants! But there’s a lot to consider when it comes to the intersection of your insurance and your modified car.
If you take nothing else away from this, I would just encourage you to think of your insurance agent as your co-pilot on this journey. You’ll want to check in with them frequently to make sure you’re adequately covered, no matter what crazy modifications you make to your car.
This partner post was sponsored by Marble, the first and only all-in-one insurance management and rewards platform. Organize all your policies, earn rewards, and take control of your risk today. It’s fast, free, and helps put your insurance on autopilot. Plus, signing up helps support The Autopian.
I was looking into maybe using Marble. I would love to consolidate getting new quotes for insurance. But I do have questions before doing that, which I can’t find answers to on your website.
1) I have a few questions about the Privacy Policy.
“You may send requests about personal information to our Contact Information below. You can request to change contact choices, opt-out of our sharing with others, and update your personal information.”
That’s great, but the Contact Information is only a physical mailing address.
So questions.
Is there a way to opt out of information sharing other than physically mailing a letter? What information should that letter include? How will I hear back that my information was successfully removed from sharing? Maybe by carrier pigeon? Or are the notifications upgraded to telegraph wires? 🙂
2) Can you briefly explain Marble’s business model? By offering a free service and further user rewards, you must be making money on the back end. Is this from insurance companies for referrals, or from third parties by providing user data; both, neither? I like to understand a company’s profit motivations before doing business with them.
Thanks!
Great questions! As another online consumer, I get it.
I’ll take it piece by piece:
Sorry I think this formatted weirdly. There were supposed to be indented bullets. Will try to fix!
Thanks!
It comes down to what my dad (Insurance Man) always said: Insurance is peace of mind …until you go to collect. Not disclosing information is grounds for claim denial.
I see this all the time on DIY body and paint sites/groups.
“I’m putting a spray booth in my home garage so I can work out of it. Keeping it on the down low with the city and my insurance company” Yeah..good luck with that.
Haha yeah, much like the dinos in Jurassic Park: the insurance companies will find a way (to find out what you’ve been up to)
Can modifications impact the liability portion of a policy? I.E. if my modified vehicle damages someone elses could I be on the hook for the liability portion because my vehicle is modified?
Great q.
So the first question is: Does your insurance company know about the modifications? If no, then you may want to consider letting them know. It’s hard to say specifically, but some modifications could be considered substantial that, in the case of an accident, the insurer could consider it a “misrepresentation” and void the entire agreement.
If they do know and have signed off, and/or the modifications to not hit that threshold, then I believe your liability coverage would still provide coverage for you. Disclaimer when I get into stuff like this though: You gotta make sure to check with your insurer first.
“What’s the best way to protect the value of my modified car?”
Most of the time, the best option for ‘protecting a car’s value’ is to bring it back to stock… LOL
“Your car became more valuable with the upgrades you made, so you want enough insurance coverage to reflect that value – and to get paid out accordingly if needed.”
Maybe from an insurers perspective, certainly from the owners but often not from a buyers.
From where I sit very few mods would actually increase resale value whereas many tank it. A sketchy ebay turbo kit? No thanks. ‘Stanced suspension? Nope. Wannabe Countach whale tail spoiler and scissor doors with a fart can exhaust? You couldn’t pay me to take it. A half assed LS swap that can’t pass emissions? Good luck kid.
A properly done LS swap in a E30 BMW or Miata, sure. You probably won’t get anywhere nearly as much out of it as you put in though.
Not reading it. Here’s how you can modify your car without messing up your insurance:
DON’T TELL YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY.
That’s it. Complete Story.
So what do you think happens when you file a claim?
Well if it’s a cheap car, chances are it will get written off and the insurance company gives you a cheque for the value of a stock example of similar age and mileage.
I support this format. It’s actually resembling something constructive! Thanks for trying something new
Just FYI, this post was republished, but Stuart might pop by later to pick up any new questions. Definitely scroll down to see if your question was already answered.
I just assumed there was a glitch in The Matrix and Agent Smith was coming for me, because there was a serious sense of Deja Vu when I saw this post.
Fine with me, I’m going to repost as well since he ignored my question:
Hey Insurance Guy, can you offer an “Autopian Special”? Here’s what I am after; I currently own…7 cars. Wait. 8. However, some of them don’t run, but some run but I only run them in certain seasons, or certain years.
I would like to pay to insure ALL of them, but have a simple app on my phone with some toggles, that swap from “I AM CURRENTLY DRIVING THIS THING AROUND” to “IT WILL BE IN STORAGE FOR A FEW MONTHS”
Maybe it would limit how often you could flip the toggles back and forth, but man, if some insurance company offered something like this, I would drop my current carrier in a heart beat, as switching things around always requires a phone convo.
Furthermore, I don’t get why I have to pay so much. I can only drive one car at time, so if I insure 2 cars, yes, the risk of a total loss is higher, HOWEVER, the risk of an accident happening to both is infinitely lower; I don’t get why stacking multiple cars costs so much.
Example: Let’s say I insure my 911 for $100 a month, and I insure my beater honda for $30 a month. IMHO the monthly premium, for both vehicles and ONE drive, should be like…. $105/month. Why? Because if I am driving them 50/50, really the monthly premium should be somewhere in the middle, like $70/month, but since there’s some weird chance that a tornado could come through and trash BOTH CARS, it makes sense it should cost more than insuring just the 911.
I wish there was an insurance solution for gearheads with multiple cars, that focused on a single driver, not insuring everything like I have 5 kids and all the cars driving around at once.
They could call it the David Tracy Premium.
*I had to scroll up and make sure David didn’t post this, though the 911 should have been a huge tip off.
Don’t know about the insurance side, but here in Quebec, the SAAQ’s website (our DMV) let’s you put a car into and out of storage without having to go to a counter or call.
Stored vehicles have a much lower (or no) registration fee here.
Is there a bulk deal on turdcars? Like, more so than the usual multiple-car discount.
Asking for most of this comment section.
State Farm gives me money back based on mileage. I was thinking of changing to Haggerty for my 240Z but I’m not sure if they benefits are worth it, I wanted to talk to someone who has used it for a while.
Have been with State Farm forever, the only time we got money back for mileage was when everybody did during Covid. We don’t put too many miles on our cars, usually 5-8000 a year depending on if there is a big road trip. Do you have to do something special to get the mileage money back?
I think Hagerty might work for you, they mostly insure cars that get driven a limited amount, and if you rotate between like at least 3 of them for your commute you’d have a good chance they’d all meet the requirements. Might be a little more expensive that you hope because it’s agreed-value, so you can tell them how much your car is worth instead of getting scammed by KBB. Meaning if you have a rare multichrome 911 spec or one of 17 Civics with purple and orange plaid cashmere seats, you can actually get another just like it with the payout in case it gets totaled. I don’t know anything besides it being not for daily drivers and being agreed-value, but it might be worth giving them a call.
If you’re going to do this, can you try to find a way to bump the article up without changing the publishing date? Re-publishing old content with a new date is one of the things that really ticked me off about the old site. I clicked on a bunch of articles and then realized it was something I had already read.
I second.
Hm. Something not mentioned: Let’s say I have a physically unmodified car, or trivially modified (air filter, say) but I _have_ reprogrammed the engine a bit because I didn’t like certain behaviors. Now, my MPG has gotten better, and the clutch is more forgiving, and maybe it’s got fifteen more horse – but how much of this does the insurance company need to know?
None. They need to know none of it.
Talking to your insurance company is like talking to the cops. Anything you say can and will be used against you. Even if they accept your list of mods and charge you a higher premium for them, they can (and will) always use that information to also deny your claim.
My advice, keep your mods to yourself. Go through an insurance agent for your policy, and they will help you fight for proper compensations if there is a claim.
You should really add a section to this about anything that disables or modifies a safety system; Racing Harness vs Seatbelt, aftermarket Steering wheel with no airbag, Big Brake kit that disables ABS.
All of those can be used as cause to void your current policy if you make a claim.
So here’s a question – I have aftermarket wheels on my car, but they’d cost significantly less to replace than the stock wheels (about $119/each, vs OEMs coming in at about $200). If I were to get into an accident, would insurance drop my claim due to it despite it costing them less money?
Unlikely.
I understand that some models of cars (let’s say a V-8 Camaro) may be more expensive to insure because they are statistically seen to be more often involved in accidents.
If you have a “higher risk” vehicle(our Camaro again), and you modify it while properly informing your insurer of that, is the premium increase you incur solely to cover the cost of the modifications, or is there an “increased hazard factor” impact on the premium as well – for example would someone who installs a turbo charger on our example Camaro be seen as having a greater likelihood of being involved in accidents than an unmodified Camaro?
That depends on the laws in your state. The mods will likely cause the collision and comprehensive coverages to be more expensive just because of the increased value. For liability coverage, though, it may not have an effect. In California, for instance, the price of liability insurance is the same regardless of what type of car one owns. It’s strictly rated on the person’s attributes (male/female, old/young, zip code, prior accidents, etc).
I’m surprised that California does that. That would be considered discriminatory in MA. Unless Geico and Progressive have paid off state regulators (again), I think they can’t alter rates based on gender or age. To get around age, they offer different rates based on years of driving experience.
Can insurance please push to have EV insured with a policy for vehicle damage and a separate policy for battery? I know this would take some major legislation, and companies would push back, but driving around with a $34000 battery in a Kia EV6 that you could puncture by getting high centered on a squirrel is silly.
What would that accomplish? Unless you’re going to not insure the $34000 battery you’re still paying to cover everything anyway.
My 62 continental is HIGHLY modified. Thankfully HAGERTY lets you do agreed value… I’m ready for someone to T-bone me! Lol
This is the correct application of special insurance for a modified car.
Hey Insurance Guy, can you offer an “Autopian Special”? Here’s what I am after; I currently own…7 cars. Wait. 8. However, some of them don’t run, but some run but I only run them in certain seasons, or certain years.
I would like to pay to insure ALL of them, but have a simple app on my phone with some toggles, that swap from “I AM CURRENTLY DRIVING THIS THING AROUND” to “IT WILL BE IN STORAGE FOR A FEW MONTHS”
Maybe it would limit how often you could flip the toggles back and forth, but man, if some insurance company offered something like this, I would drop my current carrier in a heart beat, as switching things around always requires a phone convo.
Furthermore, I don’t get why I have to pay so much. I can only drive one car at time, so if I insure 2 cars, yes, the risk of a total loss is higher, HOWEVER, the risk of an accident happening to both is infinitely lower; I don’t get why stacking multiple cars costs so much.
Example: Let’s say I insure my 911 for $100 a month, and I insure my beater honda for $30 a month. IMHO the monthly premium, for both vehicles and ONE drive, should be like…. $105/month. Why? Because if I am driving them 50/50, really the monthly premium should be somewhere in the middle, like $70/month, but since there’s some weird chance that a tornado could come through and trash BOTH CARS, it makes sense it should cost more than insuring just the 911.
I wish there was an insurance solution for gearheads with multiple cars, that focused on a single driver, not insuring everything like I have 5 kids and all the cars driving around at once.
Indo something similar with my regular vehicles which I have insured under commercial insurance. I keep just one policy… Say I’m going to take a load 250 miles away by trailer, I’ll call and switch my insurance from my 2001 Silverado to my 03 Excursion, just for the usage. Get back park the excursion and switch back to my Silverado. Been doing this for years…even had a few beater cars added at one time.
This. I can understand comprehensive staying similar no matter how many cars you have (if the garage burns down they could all be lost at once), but I can’t possibly have a collision in more than one anyway so why is my collision so much higher for 3 cars than for 1?
Because more then one person can drive your cars. Most people with multiple cars on the policy have multiple people driving them.
Sure, but unless they’re listed on my policy as a primary driver that should be a fairly uncommon occurrence. It certainly does not mean that my collision insurance should scale linearly with the number of cars I own, which is largely how it works today AFAICT.
Yes. This. I have 6 cars and can only manage to drive 1 at a time. My wife barely goes anywhere. Some of my cars are parked or stored for several months at a time.
Hi Stuart, Welcome. I have a question and a suggestion. First, did you advise your E&O carrier about this Autopian affiliation? Second, I suggest you do an article highlighting the importance of UM/UIM.
Great idea! We’re adding it to the list!
Put it high up please. 🙂
I purchased a Mustang this past December. I’m not really one for modifying my cars, but the stock ride height shows too much wheel gap for my liking. If the extent of my modifications is a 1.5″ drop on lowering springs, you’re saying I’d need modified insurance? Very interesting.
Short answer is: Yes I think you would at least want to notify your insurer. If you don’t there’s a risk they would deny a claim or void the policy. You may not need to change anything! But there’s a big downside if you don’t let them know.
Any modified parts not specifically scheduled or otherwise agreed to would only be covered to the extent they would restore the vehicle to factory function. In other words, they would only pay for replacement factory spec springs, not your Eibachs. However, unless your Eibachs CAUSED the claim, they cannot just deny your claim because you didn’t tell them you modded your vehicle. They aren’t going to pay anything extra for your mods, but they still have to pay something. it’s actually pretty hard for a carrier to totally deny a claim unless they can prove intentional misrepresentation or fraud. There are lots of horror stories and much fear mongering, but the reality isn’t so simple.
I guess like all things in insurance (and life): It comes down to a matter of risk tolerance.
Yes it can be hard in some states for your carrier to deny your claim; however, there are substantial jurisdictional differences. It may also be hard for you, the claimant (e.g. how much time do you have to battle with an insurance company?). But yes, in many cases they may also pay you something without much a fight.
Ultimately it’s an individual’s choice (beyond legal required minimums) how they want to manage their own insurance and risk mitigation!
My name is Thad and I am a Pedant. 🙂
Thanks for your response. I forgot to add…if I used Ford Performance lowering springs (as opposed to a third party company such as Eibach), would that have any impact on this conversation, or is it the same difference?
Not unless it’s extreme. If it looks stockish from the photos I don’t see how they’d ever deny you a claim. I’ve been in multiple incidents with mildly lowered vehicles and it was never an issue.
Up to you at the end of the day right? There’s a chance (hard one to handicap, but non-zero) that you’ll get an inspection or claims adjuster coming in person and then they’ll void the coverage, but there’s a chance it doesn’t happen!
Please stop saying they can and will just arbitrarily void the coverage like that. Modding your vehicle and not advising the carrier are not grounds for denial. There has to be misrepresentation or something like that. They will still have to pay for the springs that are supposed to be on your car to return it to function (or total out your car), but nothing more unless it was declared and agreed to in advance. It’s actually very hard for carriers to deny claims because laws and precedent slant toward the ignorant consumer, not the large corporation. Furthermore, every carrier I’ve ever worked with are utterly terrified of being found guilty of bad faith claims practices. Claims can get messy as hell, but there are rules, not just capricious adjusters looking for any excuse.
Mods can absolutely be tricky, but this really is bordering on fear mongering. Mildly lowering your vehicle is not going to void your policy unless you specifically provided a verifiable statement asserting that you have not and will not mod your vehicle or your policy states such and the carrier can show you knew and agreed to it. Even performance mods can be okay if the carrier fails to inquire if you have any. See, the deal is that you, the average consumer, don’t know jack shit about insurance and the big bad insurance company does. It’s up to said company to raise the questions in advance and not afterwards. Pulling denial rabbits out of the proverbial hat is just not part of the equation.
Stuart is very correct in his advice to contact your agent or carrier to get the proper coverage, but not doing is also not the reckless gamble he is making mods out to be. Voiding coverage is almost unheard of. However, paying a single penny extra for your mods unless previously agreed to is equally unheard of. It’s only the extra part that’s not covered without prior agreement.
(Apologies for boldness)
Good call on additional value coverage. As a rural mail carrier who uses a rhd xj cherokee I am required to have additional coverage for what I use it for but my insurance company also told me they don’t account for rhd vs lhd. There is a significant replacement cost difference between a 400k mile beat up jeep, and a 400k mile beat up RHD jeep. which reminds me I need to increase it again, you wouldn’t think 95 jeeps could be as much as 12k.
Real world case from here in Canada. My friend’s heavily modded 4 year old Jeep got stolen.
My friend declared the value of all the “bolted on” mods (read below for what this impacted) with his insurance. The lift kit and other stuff cost him $14K.
When making his claim, the insurance company used their formula for the value of the Jeep itself. After some back and forth with the insurance company (this extra rider is not super common and trips up many claim agents), the payout was 80% of the $14K. Basically 20% depreciation.
Now, all his gear not “bolted on” (tools, recovery equipment, etc.) Had to be claimed on his house insurance.
Oh that’s an interesting and frustrating story and kinda makes me reconsider my response to Matt below! I wonder if his OEM tires would be covered under home insurance. I bet they would, depending on where they are stored.
If they’re on the car when it’s stolen, car policy (assuming you declared them and got the rider). If they get stolen when not on the car, homeowner’s policy (even if not “at home”).
Essentially, car contents are not part of your automotive coverage here, which sucks as you get caught with two deductibles to deal with.
My homeowners policy excludes car parts.
Be very careful with terminology here, as this statement as written borders on deception. Stated Value and Agreed Value are not the same thing, and generally, Stated Value is a one way street; ie the insurer will pay you the stated value OR the ACV, *whichever is lower*
https://www.lelandwest.com/stated-value-vs-agreed-value-classic-car-insurance.cfm
If you own something rare, unique, modified, or anything that you expect will deviate significantly from an insurance company’s valuation, get an agreed value policy for true peace of mind
Good point! Agreed value is a good recourse. It can be a challenge to find a value that an underwriter and policyholder are both happy with, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth it, but it may take working with numerous specialty insurers (and you may sometimes just be out of luck).
Always make sure you are working with your agent or broker to understand all loss scenarios and would would be covered. Stated Value vs. Agreed can have implications on your cost today (lower premium vs. better coverage in the future) and tomorrow.
Just as a personal testimonial, I changed the insurance this spring on one of my cars (some people around here get pissy if I mention its name) to an agreed value policy. While the coverage is handled through my normal State Farm office and agent, I believe it is actually underwritten by Hagerty. Either way, the mileage limits, coverages, and agreed value were acceptable to me and it actually saved me money over the “normal” policy I had beforehand.
OMG, he mentioned the VIPER again!!!!
Lol, I don’t know why that other guy got triggered.
Lots of people agreed with him!
It’s quite honestly the weirdest interaction I’ve ever had on this site.
I do recall some panties in bunches about mentioning the Viper. That was fairly unhinged from what I remember.
The Autopian should be a pretty fair place to mention the cars that you own? Based on that reaction you would have figured the Viper had been mentioned 20x in a grocery check out line.
Interesting. How old is it? I asked about this on my Corvette after State Farm tried to total it from a deer strike (I got it back after learning about a loophole in my state’s salvage title laws) but was told they won’t do it for anything less than 25 years old.
10 years old was the threshold I was told, and my car is exactly that age.
Not sure if it varies by state or what, but I can’t imagine any reason why it should.
What is this loophole?
Good morning. Do insurance companies take into account modifications that may make a car more dangerous. Say, a lifted Jeep may be more likely to roll, therefore have a higher premium?
Do insurance companies see people who do performance modifications as more risky drivers (especially the flat brim hat/vaping WRX with a giant turbo crowd)?
Oh okay yes, I’m with you.
So first reaction to: Do they take it into account is “Oh yeeah, if they know about it (i.e. the driver tells them). And if the driver does not, and makes a claim, that is going to go very badly for the driver.” Long reaction but basically, yes they do and premiums will be higher.
A lot of insurers will not offer endorsements to cover lift kits or lifted cars at all.
I can’t weigh in if flat brim hats have anything to do with insurers unwillingness to offer insurance to these modified vehicles, but I can’t rule it out. There are two concepts in insurance called morale and moral hazard. Generally these refer to an increased risk of an accident when someone knows they are covered. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some overlap here.
Hi all! Happy to be here! Thanks for having me.
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Thanks for being here Stuart! I’ll start:
Great question! These are the sort of fun* scenario questions that I dig into.
My first reaction is that: No they are not. I would expect you would want an additional item coverage for the nicer OEM tires.
The thinking here is: 1) Most insurance policies don’t actually stipulate OEM replacement parts so there’s a chance in the case of a claim you wouldn’t see eye-to-eye with the insurer on getting those exact tires covered/replaced. 2) The types of damage that may occur to those tires in storage may not be covered by a typical auto policy (i.e. water damage).
To be safe I would suggest like a separate personal property policy for the tires and then maybe bring down the total cov on auto policy, I think.
He’s talking about wheels, not tires. I’m guessing Style 5s, which are basically 3 piece BBS RSs.