Do you also do a thing when you travel where you instinctively look at the local Craigslist just in case? It’s not even that I expect to buy a car, it’s that I need to know what it would be like if I lived there. This has only gotten stronger since I moved to New York, where the cars I’m interested in are both too expensive and look like abandoned oil refineries when you look underneath them.
Mark is fine, but he’s dealing with some family stuff so I’ve volunteered to step in to pick up today’s SBSD. The kids are playing, the in-laws are out doing something, and I’m warmly enjoying the basement spare room.
Yesterday’s battle was between a ’60s VW-based Dune Buggy and a sweet early ’70s Oldsmobile Toronado. I’m usually in the minority on my SBSD votes, so I was pleasantly surprised to see that a narrow majority of you agreed the FWD boat is better than the Buggy. A lot of this, I suspect, has to do with price and condition. The Buggy is some sort of strange kit and a barely complete one at that. The Olds looks ready to cruise. I also have a theory that large Malaise Era boats are making a comeback.
I’m currently in Western Michigan so I’m going to go in the complete opposite direction of this SBSD. What if it’s winter and you need to drive something cheap and just a little fun? The obvious answer isn’t RWD, though RWD in the snow can be fun if all you want to have is fun. AWD is the safe bet, but safe bets are rarely fun. FWD gives you the comfort of something that’ll track reasonably straight when roads turn wintry, as well as the joy of perfectly yanking a parking brake for a drifty turn.
Today I’ve got a couple of great options.
2010 Pontiac Vibe GT – $4,395
Engine/drivetrain: Toyota’s 2.4-liter 2AZ-FE inline-four, FWD, five-speed manual
Location: Lakeview, Michigan
Odometer reading: 194,900
Operational status: Runs and drives
It has been well established around these parts that the Pontiac Vibe is actually an excellent car, although the 1st generation car is generally more prized due to its more attractive aesthetic. I normally forget about the 2nd-generation Vibe, which remains a platform twin to the Toyota Matrix and was built at the jointly-owned Toyota/GM NUMMI facility in California.
While this doesn’t have the cool, two-tone faux rugged look of the 1st-gen car, this model does pick up the larger 2.4-liter 2AZ-Fe inline-four that also did duty in the same era RAV-4 and Camry. This isn’t necessarily a hot rod engine, but 152 horsepower and 162 lb-ft of torque it’s a decent step up over the outgoing Vibe GT.
This one seems to be remarkably clean for its high miles, and the fact that it doesn’t appear to have much rust underneath is a sign to me that this car didn’t spend almost 200,000 miles in Western Michigan and instead arrived from a different state. Otherwise, someone was keeping this car in the garage for winter, which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense given that it’s a Vibe GT.
This car is almost 15 years old and everything looks to be in order, with only a little seat-cracking here and there. I’ve seen four-year-old cars with worse interiors. The most important ingredients for happy happy fun time are the real e-brake and five-speed manual transmission.
Because the car has such high miles on it I wouldn’t feel bad hooning the crap out of it in winter. Yeah, it’s a nice car, but it’s a high-mileage econobox Camry built with a stout Toyota motor. Maybe rinse it off after you have some fun and it’ll last at least a few more Decembers.
2010 Honda Civic – $3,500
Engine/drivetrain: Honda’s 1.8-liter inline-four, FWD, five-speed manual
Location: Conklin, Michigan
Odometer reading: 199,900
Operational status: Runs and drives
This one is definitely ready to be a winter beater. Just look at how it was photographed. This car has probably served in this role for a long time and the owner is only selling it because he or she “needed a truck.” Otherwise, the car runs and drives great, according to the seller, and looks to be in better-than-decent shape.
While it has almost identical mileage to the Vibe GT, it is a little down on power at only 140 horses, although the Civic Coupe is almost certainly lighter. And, like the Pontiac, it shares the two keys to FWD winter fun:
Yup, manual parking brake and manual transmission. All you need to have a good time on a low-friction surface.
All of the photos from the seller are inconveniently cropped like it was shot on an IMAX camera for some reason, so you’ll have to use your imagination for interior quality. My guess is that it’s in at least decent shape given what I can see here. It’s an older Honda. They tend to hold up fairly well.
Would I love to see under the car? Unlike the Vibe, I’m assuming a little rust here, although nothing on the outside shows signs that it’s spread.
It’s an older Honda, so as long as it isn’t rusting through you should be able to fix anything broken on it fairly efficiently. Right?
All photos: Sellers
Not crazy about the 2nd gen Vibe’s styling, but it’s a keeper. Better than a Focus wagon, though a little smaller. That Civic just seems too ragged to hold up as a winter ride.
I’m ordinarily a Honda guy, but going with the Vibe today. I hated the layout of the dashboard in those Civics and it hasn’t improved with age. Also, older Hondas are loud on coarse pavement. I imagine the
ToyotaVibe will be quieter between snow events.I went with the Vibe today. It looks like it’s actually been taken care of vs. Civic that’s been hooned in the driveway.
may not have been hooned at all. Don’t know about Western MI, but in SE, specifically Oakland Co, chances are better than not that all the local roads are washboarded dirt, usually posted at 50 or 55 mph. A couple Oct-April days on those roads will plaster the car in cat vomit. To see this much blue, it would’ve been straight from the car wash at low speeds.
I’d gladly drive that nice, cleanVibe.
High mileage does not a beater make.
The Civic is probably a better drive, but the Vibe is good enough, it’s a lot more practical, and hasn’t spent its whole life in Michigan.
Wait… that Civic is a 2-door coupe, not the typical 4-door. Voted Vibe for its wagon-y goodness, but now I’m tempted to keep an eye out for a (non-rustbelt) manual Civic coupe.
I had the previous gen Vibe with the 1.8L which was unkillable.. I’ve heard horror stories about the oil ring issue with the 2.4L that is commonplace .
My wife (then girlfriend) had managed to erase most of the bearing material from that ‘bulletproof’ 1.8 by 100k thanks to it’s well documented issues with sticking rings and oil consumption of a quart every 300mi.
I tried to fix the obviously stuck rings with solvent but the only thing holding oil in the bearings was the sludge built up around each of the journals which the solvent did a great job of removing.
I’ve heard them too. But it wasn’t as widespread as many people might think, otherwise this ride would not have been here at almost 200K
Civic. It’s a decent drive, if unremarkable, a coupe, it’s cheaper, and I trust it more. I had that 2.4/5 speed combo in a fairly loaded, well-kept Camry with about the same miles and it was an agricultural, oil burning, oil leaking, exhaust leaking POS—nothing uncommon to that engine—and a 5-speed did nothing to make the drive a remotely tolerable one. Don’t know if the motor mounts were any better in the Vibe, but those were commonly-failed junk in that Camry, too.
Yup, I also prefer the Civic
I know this Toyota Vibe engine. Hard to kill.
The Honda looks like it’s been hooned in the owners driveway from the photos.
That Vibe looks really clean, while the Civic is certainly going to look worse in person that it does in these shitty pictures. Vibe all the way.
I have seen the conditions of the vehicles on the roads of Michigan. I will never be shopping for a high mileage daily driven MI car.
I was all set to vote Vibe for its baby wagon (as opposed to baby-wagon) profile and functionality and the five-speed. Then I saw the Civic coupe. And sure, it’s in a little rougher shape than the Ponchota, but it’s a coupe! And a five-speed, also. I looked at the picture of the little Honda out there in the cold and mud and I knew time was running out to save it, that for only 99 cents a month I could give that Honda the forever home it needs to thrive. Plus I’d get an adorable “Lugs to the Rescue” blanket that … wait, I’m cross channeling my media again. So, no blanket, just a little, used coupe, I don’t know what I got.
Probably not enough sleep…
Thanks again for lending a hand, Matt! And for the record: Vibe. Never really cared for that era of Civic.
Taking the Civic. 25% more for Toyota boringness with Pontiac looks doesn’t make sense to me. I miss the sport coupe days anyway. . .
The old vibe GT had the 2ZZ with 180hp, so not only was the second gen bigger and heavier, it lost power too.
With old high mileage cars the personality of the seller matters almost as much as the model of car. That Vibe owner is meticulous and careful. That Civic owner forgets to change the oil for years at a time.
I feel like the only people voting for the Civic are those that forgot the Vibe is actually a Toyota
Eh, the civic is cheaper, and the second gen vibe is a much worse car than the first. I still went vibe but if it’s clean the civic isn’t a worse choice.
Had that drivetrain in a Camry and that’s not a Toyota to brag about. What a POS. I’d rather it had a Pontiac drivetrain than that particular engine.
Having owned both Toyota and Honda (Acura) product my nod is to Toyota in this comparo. This era Toyota seems to have better rustproofing. Overall my Toyotas have been more reliable and durable. Hondas do drive and arguably look better.
The Vibe has 4 doors and more space, so it’s more practical. Plus, it’s not rusty, and can be kept that way with rustproofing 🙂
Going with the one that has the better vibe
I can’t get the link for the Civic to work. I’m going with the Vibe regardless because of how clean that underbody is. They’re great little wagons.
Here it is! There is 0% more information than what Matt gave here. lol
https://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/d/conklin-2010-honda-civic-speed/7805848181.html
Well that ad sucks. Thanks for tracking it down.
100% vibe vote so far!
I like those Pontiacs kind of wish I had bought one when I had the chance.
I’d drive either one in a heartbeat, but head to head? Going with the four door hatchback for convenience purposes.
Went with the Matribe, great little cars and more roomy than the Civic. Also the photos on the Civic don’t give a warm feeling on how well it was cared for.
That vibe is so clean
While I know Civics are reputable for reasons, I’m taking the Vibe. Clean plus everyone I’ve ever known that owned one wishes they still had it.
Can I get an 83 subaru hatchback instead? This seems like it’s worse than a car on fire.