As a professional car reviewer and a recent Subaru owner, I am always a little surprised at the exuberance everyone else seems to have for the brand. I’m not alone. Many, if not most, of my automotive peers seem to feel this way. Yet, talk to a regular person and the feelings they have for Subaru are strong. Talk to a new Subaru owner and those feelings are even stronger. I call this the “Subaru Effect.”
I was reminded of the Subaru Effect this morning when I saw that Consumer Reports named Subaru as its overall #1 brand, beating out BMW. How did it happen? It’s worth going deeper into both the Consumer Reports methodology and Subaru’s approach to the car market for this morning’s Morning Dump. Similarly, people tend to think of electric cars as simpler and more reliable, but reality and expectation are quite far apart as Consumer Reports found in a recent study.
Tesla has its own aura, though the light from that aura seems to be dimming a bit and so Tesla is aggressively leasing vehicles to try and keep its sales going. This will probably work for a while, though we’re going to run into a shortage of buyers until batteries or infrastructure get better. Infrastructure is slow, so perhaps new battery tech is the answer.
Happy Friday, let’s do this.
Subarus Are Just Well-Marketed Economy Cars, But That’s Ok
Do people love Subarus because “loving” a Subaru was a key part of the company’s marketing for the last decade, or is the advertising an actual reflection of the company’s user base toward the brand? I’m genuinely not sure.
The arc of Subaru in my lifetime is fascinating. As a child, my grandfather had a reliable Subaru wagon he used to drive me up and down the Texas coast. It was just a decent economy car. As a teenager, the rally exploits of Colin McRae helped make the Bugeye WRX the car to own… and eventually crash into a tree. Somewhere around college the brand somehow came to represent both flat-billed AWD enthusiasts and the outdoorsy/crunchy/granola REI Co-op set.
While the company still does make a WRX and even a BRZ, it’s now mostly a brand for normal people who want an economy car that doesn’t necessarily feel like an economy car. It’s quite brilliant, really, and it continues to work. Put AWD and some body cladding on an economy car, give it a little lift, and suddenly everyone who wants to kayak buys one. The brand also cleverly plays this up as it gives a ton of money to national parks and animal foundations. By not being a car for everyone, like Toyota or Honda, the brand has been able to cultivate a perception that’s attractive to a ton of buyers.
It even worked on me as, in 2016, I purchased a Subaru Forester as a family car that was safe enough, had AWD, and wasn’t too expensive.
The first couple of years were fine, though I eventually came to regret buying it due to its poor fuel economy, boring driving characteristics, and a seemingly endless series of small but expensive or annoying repairs it needed. Based on talking to other older Subaru owners I’m not alone in this, though there are plenty of Subaru owners who did not have this experience. This might be a case where I’m in the minority.
This might explain how Subaru went to the top of the Consumer Reports brand list, where it replaces BMW as the top brand by a single point. The rest of the top five are Lexus, Porsche, and Honda. At the bottom are Dodge, GMC, Land Rover, Rivian, and Jeep.
How does CR put this list together? Here’s the publication’s explanation:
We rank automakers based on their vehicles’ average Overall Score—a combination of our road-test scores, safety ratings, and predicted reliability and owner satisfaction data. This provides a definitive number to help consumers see which brands shine and which might be best avoided.
I want to note a couple of things here because I know the people at CR and have visited the company’s test facility in Connecticut. Many of the contributors and editors are sharp drivers, experienced wrenchers, and owners of quirky old cars. That’s not necessarily the CR audience, so the rankings are skewed toward the average CR member, which someone on Reddit described as “a support group for people who are bored out of their minds by their cars” yesterday.
Maybe, but CR has a huge readership to survey and buys the cars that it tests, going to great lengths to disguise themselves so automakers can’t send them a specific vehicle. Enthusiasts might not agree with the rankings, but the publication’s methods are unique in this industry.
[Ed Note: Consumer reports scores are a big deal in the Auto Industry. One of the strangest moments in my engineering career happened when I poked fun at Consumer Reports during a meeting in which an engineer was discussing us (i.e. Fiat Chrysler) making sure that we designed our vehicle to satisfy a Consumer Reports metric (yes, automakers design their cars around CR testing!). I, a car enthusiast, said something like “We really want to design our car based on boring Consumer Reports,” and the engineer (an older guy) said something along the lines: “If you don’t understand the importance of Consumer Reports, let’s go outside right now and I’ll show you the importance of Consumer Reports.” I think the guy wanted to fight me for me poking fun at CR? It was extremely, extremely weird. -DT].
Looking more closely at Subaru you can get a sense of why the brand ranks so highly. First up, the brand’s road test score is high. Again, let’s go to CR to explain:
“The road-test score is an amalgam of a model’s driving experience. It factors in power delivery, handling agility, braking performance, ride comfort, noise isolation, seat comfort, controls’ ease of use, and fuel economy,” says Gabe Shenhar, associate director of Consumer Reports’ auto test program. “For EVs, the score also reflects range, charging time, and ease of plugging and unplugging. Brands that produce well-rounded vehicles that are capable in multiple areas are ranked highly.”
Subaru doesn’t make a lot of big, heavy crossovers and trucks, and instead makes fairly comfortable cars that handle reasonably well. While this may be skewed towards normal drivers, the lack of bigger and heavier vehicles has clearly helped Subaru’s road test score average. Other brands in the top four are BMW, Audi, and Porsche. Chrysler, which only makes the Pacifica, is also up here in sixth, so that tells you how these measures are weighted.
While reliability varies a lot from model to model, Subaru doesn’t make a lot of different vehicles and there’s a lot of platform sharing. Owners of Subaru who are CR members report the fewest issues after purchase, so Subaru is now at the top of the rankings for “Predicted Reliability,” ahead of Toyota, Lexus, Honda, and Acura. When it comes to used-car brand reliability, Subaru ranked much lower at 9th, which is a little closer to my experience. On “Overall Satisfaction” Subaru also only came in 8th, being great at nothing, but good enough at everything.
This is a kind of amusing outcome and goes to show what level the idea of a car matters more than the reality of the car and that the “Subaru Effect” is strong. People who just bought Subarus report few issues and are excited about the prospect of owning a Subaru. Overall, though, people who have had a Subaru for a while are less satisfied than BMW or even Chevy owners. Even more amusingly, used Subaru owners, on average, end up with a “reliability verdict” worse than Nissan, Volvo, and Buick.
And while Subaru isn’t the most economical car company when you look at individual models, the lack of trucks does mean that Subaru’s CO2 footprint is relatively low. The addition of Toyota’s hybrid systems to Subaru vehicles will be a huge improvement here.
Subaru got mad at us when we pointed out the Crosstrek Wilderness had the wimpiest skid plate you’ll ever see, even if we liked the vehicle overall. That was a car enthusiast complaint as clearly there are a lot of Subaru owners who are just Subaru enthusiasts (the brand is selling well). You know what? There’s nothing wrong with that. People being enthusiastic about their vehicles is what this place is about, right? [Ed Note: There’s a fascinating book titled “Where The Suckers Moon” all about how Subaru built its powerful brand starting with a cheap, tinny little mini-car from Japan. Worth a read! -DT].
I think “love” does really make a Subaru a Subaru. Soon after buying a Subaru I also became an REI Co-op member and bought a big tent and started going camping. Was I brainwashed? Maybe. Sometimes a little brainwashing is nice.
PHEVs And EVs Still Have Reliability Issues According To Consumer Reports
There’s this idea that electric cars, having less complicated drivelines, are somehow less likely to break than their gasoline counterparts. That’s not quite true. Companies have been making gasoline cars for 100+ years and have gotten quite good at it. Electric cars are new and there are basically no startups making ICE-powered cars, meaning that most of the new startup car companies are making EVs.
From Consumer Reports again:
“While they remain extremely fuel-efficient, today’s hybrids also deliver reliability that is similar to conventional gas cars, despite their added complexity,“ Fisher says. On average, hybrids have a similar number of problems as cars powered by internal combustion engines (ICE).
[…]
Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) are more of a mixed bag. As a category, they have 70 percent more problems than ICE vehicles. The ability to drive locally solely on electricity but still take long trips without range worries makes PHEVs attractive. But having two distinct powertrains—electric and an internal combustion engine—increases the chance for problems.
Several PHEVs are even less reliable than their conventional counterparts, such as the Mazda CX-90 PHEV, which scored well below average, while the regular CX-90 is below average. The BMW X5 PHEV, Lexus NX PHEV, and Toyota Prius PHEV each score just average, while the regular X5, NX, NX hybrid, and Prius all score above average.
Overall, CR found that PHEVs had 70% more problems than ICE or HEV counterparts, while EVs had 42% more problems. This is an improvement over previous numbers for both powertrains as companies get better at making these vehicles. Rivian, which is a startup, had by far the worst reliability.
Tesla Is Getting Into The Leasing Game To Juke Sales
While Tesla once had what amounted to a monopoly on EVs in the United States, the brand now suddenly has a lot more competition. As you can see in the graphic above, one of the ways brands get curious buyers into electric cars is leasing.
The Inflation Reduction Act also helps. One of the giveaways to the auto industry in the IRA was the ability for automakers to take $7,500 off any electric car that’s leased with no restrictions on where the vehicle comes from, what it costs, or how much money the customer has. This has been huge.
In an effort to keep its market share, Tesla has aggressively cut prices and offered extremely low financing (the company is super rich and can afford these activities). Now, Tesla is trying to make leasing more attractive by allowing people to buy out their leases, whereas before Tesla leasees had to return their cars.
“Tesla’s lease penetration has gone way up,” said Tom Libby, a senior analyst at S&P Global Mobility. “They are getting more and more aggressive because they need to — and because they have the financial resources to do so.”
Leasing a Tesla seems like a good deal, especially given that Tesla values vary so much due to all the price-cutting and the risk of a new model. This is all part of a growing trend of Tesla saying it isn’t going to be a normal car company and then doing more normal car company things.
Does SSB + SIB = The Future Of EVs?
Lithium batteries in either NCM or LFP form will continue to dominate the car market for years to come, but perhaps there’s something better than cells or pouches filled with lithium-based liquid electrolytes.
S&P Global Mobility has a “BRIEFcase” paper out today about the possibility that both sodium-based batteries (SIB) and solid-state batteries (SSB) could provide the market with what it needs to get that next level of penetration. Sodium is cheap and abundant and SSBs are more energy-dense, though both technologies have drawbacks:
SIBs are likely to compete with LFP batteries, as their energy density is approximately 160 Wh/kg, compared to around 200 Wh/kg for LFP. This lower energy density, alongside a shorter life cycle, limits SIBs primarily to low-cost, entry-level vehicles.
[…]
Despite the advantages, several hurdles exist for SSB adoption. The use of lithium metal anodes, which can lead to uneven plating and dendrite formation, poses risks to battery integrity. Additionally, solid electrolytes are less conductive, potentially limiting power output, especially in colder conditions. In some cases, external heating is necessary, particularly with polymer electrolytes.
SSBs are also five times more expensive than lithium-ion batteries, though with time that price will come down. Sodium batteries will also likely improve as more investment goes into them.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Is it weird that my favorite version of Alice In Wonderland might be the version portrayed in the video for “Don’t Come Around Here No More” by Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers? The book is super messed up if you take the time to read it and this video captures both the disorientation and the creepiness quite well.
The Big Question
What do you consider to be the overall best car brand selling cars in America right now?
CR should also rate the whole car-buying experience, since it is a major step toward ownership, unlike other products they review that can be bought by clicking a few buttons on a keyboard or mouse.
True, the buying experience will differ mainly by dealer and not brand, so CR will have to work that out.
A guy who works in my building has a new subaru outback or forester wagon thing and is convinced that its “triple turbo.” I think because it has 3.0 T on the back? He gives me the impression of the average subaru owner.
I mentioned something about the CVT to a coworker who is convinced his doesn’t have the CVT because of the shift paddles. A large portion of Subaru owners are very uncurious about their vehicles (which makes sense–it’s a brand that largely caters to people who aren’t really car people).
I got a friend that told me he bought the “fast” Subaru. I said cool, a WRX? No, it’s an Impreza Sport. It has 18’s, a spoiler and named Sport, so he thought it was fast. It has 160hp and CVT. I never thought my friend would be an average Subaru owner. It was disappointing.
What do you consider to be the overall best car brand selling cars in America right now?
Honda is pretty great, as long as you don’t want an offroader or Truck. Every car they make at the moment is nice.
Toyota is another solid pick, despite the teething issues with the trucks.
I agree with Honda. I cannot think of a single Toyota that I would want as a rental car, let alone a purchase. If there is a Mazda in the rental lot, I’ll typically snag that, but with the disappearance of the 6 and the aging Mazda3 they seem to sadly be migrating towards an SUV company like Ford (both with one token sports car).
Subaru has been brilliant at marketing for a long time. Reaching LGBTQ populations, people who want to be seen as outdoorsy, and people who want a safe car…all without alienating much of anyone. Just by doing a good job on both broad and targeted marketing.
The thing that gets me is the number of people I’ve met who absolutely believe their Subaru is the reason they survived crashes that they would have survived in most modern vehicles. The Subaru safety marketing is on point.
Many ex-Volvo owners became Subaru owners. Makes sense they put a strong emphasis on safety (even if objectively on the same levels as many other brands).
I wasn’t always that way, though. Volvo was out ahead of most other automakers for a long time, building often boring but very safe cars. Subaru came a bit later to that party, but was still ahead of the US automakers and kept at the forefront of the Japanese imports. What was important was that they’d queued up right behind Volvo just in time for insurance industry safety ratings to become widely publicized and understood as a yardstick for car quality. It’s a lead that Volvo and Subaru have been able to capitalize on in marketing for a long time now. Nevermind that all new cars now have to meet some pretty impressive crash safety standards. But it wasn’t always that way, and Volvo and Subaru have earned some priceless brand goodwill from their efforts.
Hey, some of us Subaru fans ARE outdoorsy. Why else are there so many in mountain regions?
AWD
Right, but many people (like me living in Alaska) choose to live in places with mountains because we are outdoorsy and do a lot of outdoorsy activities. The non-outdoorsy people tend to move away to easier places to live.
It’s not a big mystery why Subaru sells well, especially new. You get a decent AWD car with a bunch of modern features for less than the competition. The trim tiers are straightforward. The dealers have plenty of models and trims on the lot (unlike Toyota, which is probably their main competition). Most people don’t care that they are kind slow, kinda unrefined, and drive weird. They get you to the ski hill or trailhead or whatever just fine and the interiors hold up to abuse better than other brands.
On top off that, the dealers are genuinely not horrible and the brand goes out of its way to contribute to causes lots of people care about. It’s easy to be cynical about marketing but at some point you have to give companies the benefit of the doubt. I’m far more dubious of a brand that sells giant trucks wrapped in American flags trying to tell me they care about humanity.
I’ll cosign this. You’ll read comments sections and come away thinking that soft touch materials and big engines are the most important thing in a vehicle and they’ll rag on Subaru incessantly for being unrefined in this area. Meanwhile, the folks who actually buy Subaru’s see this as a virtue. I like my Crosstrek because I don’t have to be precious about it. I don’t worry about my climbing friends scratching interior panels because it just doesn’t matter much. Kid schmutz all over the place? Who cares. Nothing is fancy but everything is durable and easy to clean. Never mind that it’s a blast in the snow and dirt.
I cross-shopped the Crosstrek against a VW GTI and even though my heart was with the GTI, the Subaru just fit my lifestyle better.
My wife (not a lesbian, that I’m aware of) also loves her ’19 Crosstrek (made in Japan). Is it fast? No. Will it run 80+ on interstate no problem? Yes. Does it handle twisty roads competently? Yes. Can you fold the seats down and put a bunch of crap in the back? Yes. Haul her Mom’s trash in the back without incident? Yes. Can her mobility challenged Mom get in/out? Yes. All the while consistently getting 29-33 mpg in our hilly region. AWD? Carplay? Heated seats? Check, check, check. Was she willing to pay for the nice mid grade Civic w/o AWD she was also eyeing? Heck no.
She’s about to hit 80k miles, zero problems. Changing oil is piece of cake. New tires last year. Near brakes this summer. I am dreading replacing the spark plugs (recommended at 60k??). Will do fluids next summer.
Our local Subaru dealer is one of the better dealers in region (They are part of a large multi-brand (including Porsche/Lexus)/multi-dealership regional family owned group). Purchasing was piece of cake, no games/drama.
My wife and I have a Jetta and Impreza, respectively. Both are base trims from the same era. The Subaru has a way better interior than the VW; that 2018 is miles ahead from early 2010s Subarus and older. I didn’t expect a soft dash with stitching and padded door cards but here we are.
I think most of Subaru’s lack of interior refinement is based from old publications some journalists don’t even care to edit after reviewing the next generation.
What year? I had an 09 Jetta that had a very nice interior especially for the period and price but I heard that the next gen went a little more utilitarian?
I should’ve been more specific: the Jetta I’m talking about is a 2015 base with the 2.slow and 5 spd manual.
Agree about the previous gen, I also owned a 2008 SE 2.5 with the leatherette interior and sunroof and it was all soft to the touch including the rear door cards which is almost unheard of on a compact sedan from a mainstream brand.
But that car soured me on the brand as it had electrical gremlins and didn’t keep it for long. The 2015 has been way more reliable and I guess less features and gizmos had a lot to do with it
The 2.5 was a great engine and always felt much more powerful than the specs implied. My 09 became a bit of a money pit too for really dumb things but I loved the way it drove so much that I shoveled money into it until it was rear-ended.
Subarus (aside from the WRX) have power delivery?
For anything other than performance cars and full size pickups, it has been and will remain Toyota. They basically have every mainstream sedan and crossover genre covered with a vehicle that will get 35-40 mpg or better, and last 250,000 miles or longer.
Honorable mention is GM though. Anything they offer a V8 in is either class leading or near it.
To me the best brand selling cars in the US is Jeep, because they kept the Wrangler true to its roots mechanically as much as possible and even expanded on that.
4 door Wrangler, Gladiator, 392, diesel, PHEV drive trains.
Not only that but they lifted the brand out of the farm utility vehicle and hardcore off roader niche, and made it popular with buyers who never go off road.
I’m not exactly a Jeep fan, and know they can have many issues and Wranglers especially are very compromised.
But still one’s gotta admit they’ve cooked up a pretty successful formula that’s been working since many decades now.
Its fallen off significantly in the last 24 months though.
Subaru – because the world is flat. My only issue is the horribly tuned CVT.
The CVT is what really keeps me from looking at any Subaru as a daily driver. Wouldn’t mind a new WRX with the manual, but I really don’t need a manual daily when I already have a manual toy. I need something fun enough with good radar cruise and decent economy for my long work drives.
I have a Subaru with a CVT and the tuning is good. I’ve owned mostly manual transmission cars in my life (e30s, Preludes, GTIs) so I know a good transmission, and you know what? The Subaru CVT is just fine.
We have one as well and the CVT is good. Far better than the regular automatic in our previous one (constantly hunting on certain grades) and better than most other CVTs we’ve driven. It’s not particularly involving or anything but gets it up to speed quickly enough and on the freeway at 75-80 it works very well, especially up and down hills/mountains; unless we are watching the rpm gauge it just seems to seamlessly supply power – which I suppose is exactly what it is supposed to do. We are surprisingly happy with that aspect of the car. We’ve found that many people that hate CVTs have not experienced one for longer than one short test drive of one random cold car while focusing on that aspect or are people that insist on having a manual in rush hour traffic etc. It’s no surprise that the vast majority of people for whom cars are just a means to the end of getting wherever they need to go don’t care and buy them.
Do they still have the artificial shift points programmed in? That absolutely pissed me off when I drove my father’s 2015ish Impreza on the Blue Ridge Parkway: the whole point of a cvt is that it can be at the optimal rpm for load & speed. The paddle shifters compounded that ire as well as they shouldn’t be needed.
Now, to be fair, when he told me to go ahead and give ‘er some, it moved & tracked better than I expected. And, when I ‘geared down’ a couple times as he suggested, it did a great job of engine braking. His point was that he doesn’t have to press buttons when descending the hill they live on if snowy: it would hold the speed down. Fair enough.
-I should note I had 80s Subarus (most all 4wd wagons) for near 2 decades, and now have an early Bugeye wrx: I have no hate for the brand
Own a 2017 Subaru Outback, 2.5L, CVT, 130k miles.
CVT & “Shifting”
My understanding is that the computer controlling the CVT interprets the accelerator input to determine if it will either gain speed smoothly or have the “gear change” feel of a traditional automatic. Seems it keeps a history of how it’s driven to determine whether or not to give the feel of a “gear change”. (Unsure if true, or if true how many miles, driving time, etc. that it tracks to make this determination.)
I usually just putter around with low to medium acceleration, and don’t feel any “shifts” as I gain speed. Those few times I really stomp on the accelerator pedal, I get the fake “shift” experience. Have to plan ahead, as it –is– a slow car even when you give it the boot.
Other
My real world fuel economy on regular 87 octane has easily been into the mid-30s in mixed city/highway and not uncommon to get 37 mpg, as the mildly hilly area where I live has speed limits of 55 or 60 mph, and I try to stay within 5 miles of the limit. Gentle acceleration is key. Strictly interstate travel of 75-85mph drops it to 32-33 mpg and 85-90, 27-28 mpg.
AWD and the car’s stability/traction control system have saved me at least 3 times due to standing water on a curve, a snowy curve on new Blizzaks, and light rain on seemingly oily off-camber curve at 30mph.
The Outback comfortably travels 4-500 miles at a go (have gone over 550+ miles on it’s 18.5 gal tank during a day road trip), easy to get in and out, good rear seat space, hauls a lot of crap, can handle 8′ 2×6 lumber with back seats down (reaches front center arm rest), easy to lift kayaks onto standard roof rack, and has been reliable, economical and inexpensive to buy.
It’s a jack of all trades and master of none.
Plus I ride my motorcycle when want I excitement.
I think current good reliability stems from engines and CVT that have been built for many years, and not much new innovation in model year changes. Worst Subaru reliability (much worse) per this CR article is the rebranded Toyota BEV model.
Mazda CX-5 or 3 hatch
Not looking at CUV’s. The 3 is interesting, but was surprised at how expensive the Turbo model gets. For that price I’d rather get an Accord.
“There’s this idea that electric cars, having less complicated drivelines, are somehow less likely to break than their gasoline counterparts. That’s not quite true.”
Right around the time the Model S came out, I was a frequent visitor to the Tesla Motor Club forum. A thread appeared that said, “Will EVs put repair shops out of business?” In the opinion of most of the members, EVs would essentially never need service, and thus repair shops and thus parts stores like mine were doomed. I argued most definitely not, and I was ridiculed and told I was worried about my livelihood, therefore my thoughts were self-serving. I stopped visiting there pretty much after that.
Which parts for which EVs are your biggest sellers? And which parts for which internal combustion cars are your biggest sellers? (yes I do realize there are far more and older ICE cars out there than newer EVs but still curious, I assume your suppliers study this and inform/recommend stock).
We don’t sell many parts for EVs as of yet, as far as I know, but then not only am I not checking every invoice that goes out, but the majority of EVs are still only a few years old (Leafs and Teslas excepting). We don’t really sell many engine parts beyond gaskets anymore, oils and engines are made so well now. What we do sell a lot of are brakes (regen helps brake life, I get that) and undercar stuff (control arms, shocks & struts, suspension links). EVs have all that, and we catalog a full complement of suspension and brake parts for Teslas already. Window regulators became a big category a couple decades ago and I don’t see that stopping.
The point is, EVs are made by humans which means things will wear out and fail, and the aftermarket for sure isn’t going to just roll over and let that opportunity pass.
Interesting, thanks! I wonder why car dealers are always reported to be so concerned about a switch to EVs, supposedly thinking their service revenue will go away. While there aren’t oil changes, obviously there are still cabin filters and wipers for people who wouldn’t deign to change those themselves anyway. And probably some battery swaps under warranty, but maybe less of those than Chrysler minivan tranny swaps?
I hadn’t realized that Tesla repair parts are available on the aftermarket/replacement market now,, that’s smart as a fair number are starting to have a fair number of miles and years on them now and out of warranty.
My wife loves her Forester, she picked one with the brown leather interior and it’s loaded down with more features than any car she’s owned before for less money than you’d think. It’s got a few weird little quirks for sure but almost every car I’ve owned has those and some have been far more dangerous or inconvenient than the Subaru.
My mum has owned 3 Subarus so far, my brothers had one, I’m hoping to get a WRX as my next company car if possible. I have some minor reservations about reliability down the line but I’ve had plenty of other “reliable” or “bulletproof” cars/drivetrains that have let me down in the past.
My wife has a 2010 Outback and it is our go-to vehicle for comfortable cruising and in 70,000 miles and 8 years of ownership the CEL has never come on so it has 100% reliability in my book.
Biggest issue is the damn sunroof that has perpetually clogged drains. I have to blow them out with every oil change.
My brother has a 2010 Outback and it’s been an absolute heap since 2012, and an anemic gasping slushbox since 2010.
I’ve also got a Fiesta ST with 100k that has never seen a CEL and is on original batteries, bulbs, etc. Literally everything factory except tires, wipers, and oil. Guess I’ll take the credit for the amazing longevity of all my vehicles.
Nice! I should have checked my tone, I wasn’t trying to snip or snipe. You’ve had a much better run with yours than my brother!
Fair enough. Tone is hard on the internet. Have a good weekend.
I’m not sure how it is in milder climates, but up here in the land of ice & snow, they’re cheap AWD cars that can be had with a stick shift. They make stellar winter beaters. Winter beaters and the Hoonery done with them is what cements their positive memory.
When your other options in the price range are all FWD and/or automatic, then the cheap AWD stick is king of the winter pile.
I’m somewhat skeptical that this accounts for their popularity with middle-aged moms.
See if that popularity correlates with those same mom’s former enthusiasm for tramp stamps.
You saying a 40 year old momma can’t whip shitties in her subie-doo?
First and foremost let me commend you on using the correct terminology for the maneuver.
Secondly, as a 40 year old myself, let me just state that when HS me was whipping shitties with friends in snowy parking lots or frozen lakes, it was pretty conspicuously a sausage fest. Perhaps that has changed with the times, or maybe the girls were just on the other side of the lake?
Not many women were rocking rear/awd in my days (36, so I’m a few years younger than you), but they all appreciated riding shotgun on drift runs in fresh snow. But more of my friends were/are women than men, so we both may just have sampling bias.
Stick is only in the WRX now and not the top one. (Yes, and BRZ but it’s not AWD).
I have a ’17 Forester with the 6 speed and it’s not a transmission that is a joy to drive. Also, the electronic e-brake to keep from rolling back releases slowly, so any attempt at a quick start can easily result in a stall.
I find Subies to be pretty good on exterior rust too (not sure about underbody, cradles, etc)
It’s rare to see one that’s got the rockers and door bottoms missing.
This is not exactly a controversial choice for “best brand”, but I’ll say Toyota. I prefer Honda products, but Toyota has the advantage of a broader lineup of vehicles (i.e. you can get a compact sedan, a full-size pickup truck, EVs/PHEVs/hybrids, a legit sports car, and just about anything else you could want). Most Toyota vehicles aren’t exciting, but most vehicles do not need to be exciting. Buyers in 2024 want drama-free transportation and (for a reason I can’t comprehend) Apple Carplay. Toyota does drama-free transportation better than anyone else and across a broader spectrum of vehicles.
As for Subaru, I have never understood its appeal. Their vehicles are fine, but generic. I can’t think of a reason to buy any Subaru product. I’m not an outdoorsy person (my idea of roughing it is a hotel with basic cable and a queen size bed) so I acknowledge I’m not exactly their target market, though. Perhaps I just don’t “get” Subaru.
I mean, I’m an Android user, but I absolutely love the Android Auto-compatible head unit I installed in my car.
I don’t need to take my phone out of pocket to mount it somewhere. I can get navigation on a big screen, add stops by voice, ask about the hours of a store on the way, and also manage my music from what’s on my phone.
I would assume similar capabilities apply to Carplay.
The wife and I have had 4 Subies between us and there’s one huge factor left out of the article, the dealership experience. Compared to other brands the Subaru dealership is just nicer to deal with, the waiting room is cleaner, the folks are nicer, etc. My sample size is admittedly small but of the 4 in Houston I’ve visited 3 have been awesome.
The one I’ve been to in the DC area was atrocious. We were helped by a total dudebro salesperson who sent us for a test drive in a certified car that had been owned by a heavy smoker and when we said we weren’t planning on buying that night he picked his stuff up off the table, said “thanks for wasting my time”, and stormed off.
I was helping my sister and her husband shop for a car and Subaru was off their list after that experience. Outside of luxury brands that have the extra money and desire to give you a premium experience I don’t think any company has good dealerships across the board…and to be fair DC has the worst service employees of anywhere I’ve ever been so that probably contributes as well.
Like if you’re not a violent offender and can keep your hands to yourself you’ve got a person facing job in this area. There’s too big of a need for companies to be choosy. If you can show up half the time and not shit yourself Dumb and Dumber style in front of customers you’re not going to get fired. Hell you can be visibly high off your ass and no one will do anything.
“Like if you’re not a violent offender and can keep your hands to yourself you’ve got a person facing job in this area.”
Sounds perfect for someone who really, really likes keeping their hands to themselves.
Yeah, it could be that just the 3 great ones here are unique. The 4th one here I would say isn’t great but that’s because I saw a car on their website that I wanted, called to confirm that they had it, they said they were staring right at it, and after I drove an hour across town they “couldn’t find it”. Which, I’ve definitely had worse experiences at dealerships than that but it was enough for me to never visit that one again.
Also, not to be pedantic, but I believe the shitting yourself scene was in that less than stellar prequel Dumb and Dumberer: When Harry Met Lloyd.
This has been my experience as well. I frequently comment here on how much better our local Subaru dealer is than the others brands. It makes a huge difference to people who don’t see a tremendous difference between the experience of owning a Forester or a RAV4.
Subaru is a masterclass in how perception/vibes are everything. In actuality their cars aren’t really any more reliable than their competition, but that doesn’t matter because Japanese=bulletproof in the minds of consumers and Subaru=a safe, loving car that will not let you down. Feelings don’t care about your facts.
They also have genius and heartfelt marketing that understands their customer base. The ads portraying a family of dogs are cute and playful. Who doesn’t want to watch cute dogs get into assorted car related hijinks? But they also have stuff that cuts deeper, I recently saw an ad portraying a Subaru owner adopting a struggling dog. People see that, are like “wow I adopt and care deeply about pups”, and when it’s time to shop they remember that more than the Toyota ads with cheesy Imagine Dragons ass millennial pop music, the overly dramatic Honda ads about Senna overcoming his racing challenges, etc.
Subaru also included LGBTQ people in their ads many years before it was mainstream. I can’t claim to speak for that community since I’m a heterosexual dude, but I do have many friends who identify as part of that community and pretty much all of them have told me they have a positive opinion of Subaru as a result, and again…Subaru knows their audience. The whole “Birkenstock wearing lesbian driving an Outback” trope existed way before the ads, and for a reason.
Whether or not they actually care about that community or just want their money remains to be seen, especially with how (to put it nicely) socially conservative Japanese society is, but regardless…it works. Add the whole soft roader/LL Bean/REI cavalcade to their image and they’ve got a sizable audience demographically speaking.
You love dogs? Subaru loves you. You’re gay? Subaru featured members of the community way before it was mainstream. You like the outdoors, like most people? Subaru makes cars for the outdoors. You just want reliable transportation? Subaru’s have a stellar reputation for reliability even though they haven’t really earned it. Are you one of the tens of millions of people for whom all wheel drive is non-negotiable? Every Subaru is AWD except the BRZ.
Subaru wins on vibes, and in this day and age for better or worse vibes matter about all else. The average consumer doesn’t have the time or desire to dive into actual data, but they’ll definitely remember that cute dog commercial when it’s time to buy a car.
This 100%. This is what it was like at the Subaru dealership I worked at. We had dog treats, a clothing section, a “living wall” and other things that just made it more cozy and Earthy. The customer base ate it up. They were also a lot more likely to say yes to repairs or vehicle upgrade offers.
It turns out that people respond positively when they’re treated half decently by huge corporations.
“I have no idea what you’re talking about”
-deceased CEO of United Healthcare Brian Thompson, probably
HA!
People trashing him online as an Ivy League trust fund baby when in reality he was from a farm family and went to Univ of Iowa.
But most of their direct competition is Japanese, so how do you explain the perception that Subaru is more reliable than them? Plus, I’d like to see how you are determining which brands actually are more reliable.
One question: Why a picture of a buttplug half full of cocaine?
Another question: Why did Toyota provide it?
I love your half full optimism.
“Why a picture of a buttplug half full of cocaine?”
Because they forgot to take a picture when it was completely full.
https://www.theautopian.com/toyotas-solid-state-battery-tech-looks-unfortunate-cotd/
This explains why my cousin only buys Subarus. She doesn’t particularly like driving, and doesn’t work on her cars. She buys a new car, drives it until it’s paid off, and then trades it in for a new one. She lives in a big city and rarely drives far. She has preteen and teen kids. Plus, she’s artsy.
So I guess a Subaru is perfect for someone like her, who is willing to sustain never-ending car payments to have a new car that doesn’t ask much of her. But it’s a real pain in the ass for the second or third owner who is pushing it up toward 200k. Have fun pulling that powertrain just to change simple parts!
What service requires pulling the power train?
A lot of them. It’s a function of the flat design, so the valve covers and heads are buried way down there.
There are no engine out services for Subarus. Accessing the heads is a bit more work but it’s not particularly difficult.
The municipality I work for has a Subaru dealership. While there doing inspections for construction, I noticed that in the shop every bay had an engine stand with an engine/transaxle on it.
So I asked a tech, and he said “On a Subaru, almost everything is engine-out”.
Subaru boxers are quirky, but whoever told you that “almost everything is engine-out” is either joking or looking for ways to bill extra hours.
In general Subarus are a bit easier to wrench on than the “average” vehicle. I can’t think of any job on a Subaru that would be harder than a typical V6 crossover (though spark plugs are harder than they should be on some models). And it’s much easier than working on a V6 minivan. If you’re going to pick a car to nurse through the nickle-and-dime phase, it’s not a bad choice.
Ok, but V6s are dying, everything’s a 4 now. With the head on top, which by definition is way easier to access.
Agreed! I welcome the change (back) to engines with just one head. I’d rather wrench on an inline any day over a boxer or a V6.
They are not so buried. It’s easy to change spark plugs in the 4s, and the 6 cylinder ones are actually not that bad either with a selection of extension lengths and universal joint sockets. Valve cover gaskets and even timing belt can easily be done in car. Alternator, AC compressor, power steering sits right on top, easy peasy. Even on my non-lifted Legacys (as opposed to the higher sitting Outbacks), I can do an oil change or coolant replacement without even lifting the car.
As Subaru guy who’s had 30 combined years with my old Subarus, they are really easy to work on yourself, coming from a non-mechanic who learns how to fix things from YouTube.
As a former Subaru owner, I agree with Matt’s take. It was decent but had recurring reliability problems the most annoying being the heat shields rattling terribly. I don’t want to sound like a tractor when I’m leaving for work at 7AM. I’ve had a lot of friends own them as well, and the best ownership experience seems to be the new Subaru owner, who replaces it before the repair bills get too high. Lots of dead engine and transmissions among this group, and it has soured me on the brand overall.
Both sides of our family were fairly Subaru-centric before we got our Forester, which had a lot of similar nagging issues like Matt’s, was it still completely driveable, sure so as far as ‘reliable’ transportation it hasn’t failed(except for battery would be needing jump starts a lot if we didn’t replace it). So we’re definitely out of the Subaru game come next car refresh.
To me Subaru is like Snapple, they used to make really cool old timey sodas like Birch Beer and Cream Soda and “tru” root beer, then they switched to fruit juices and had Snapple Facts on the lids and really blew up, but I really miss the old timey sodas, I can get super sugared down fruit juices from anywhere, but nobody carries Birch Beer. Kind of like I miss the Brat and XT and heck even the Justy, I can get a loud underpowered crossover with a CVT from anybody, but nobody makes AWD pickups with t-tops and rear-facing seats in the bed anymore.
From my pov, Subaru doing the “vibe” thing well is why they’re so popular. The ads, design language, evocation of vague memories, all combine in buyer’s minds to conjure up what they want – something they believe will be easy to own, but with a dash of style that allows them to imagine they’re really adventurers not commuters. Also, helps having a small lineup that’s pretty homogenous.
This is definitely a winning strategy here in the U.S. and not all that different from what Ford did in the ’60s with the Mustang.
Not sure about country-wide, but out here in the rural midwest/appalachia, subarus are not just loved, they are REVERED. It’s not about being an economy car, because out here they dont have the image of “economy car.” If it can come with a sunroof, leather, heated seats, and AWD, it’s not an economy car- It’s everything the average person needs. Sure, they’re a bit crude, and loud, and not fancy at all, but (despite the troubles you had) The general reputation amongst the population out here is that they are very safe, mechanically reliable, cheap to buy, cheap to insure, can go anywhere a car has any business going, and they have good resale. Because of this reputation, they punctured a group of people toyota and honda never could- The rural, buy-USA types.
You wouldnt believe the amount of customers I have that wont own a Honda, Nissan, or Toyota, either because of Pro-union sentiments, or anti-foreign car sentiments that are still common in rural america. But one thing I hear ALL THE TIME, right after they tell me they won’t buy foreign–
“No, nothing japanese……But I would do a Subaru.”
When my mom, living in rural MD, got her Mustang (yay Mom), she had to offload her ’90s Outback. Upon hearing of this, the local garage she’d used for years jumped at the chance to buy it from her, noting “it’ll be sold in no more than a couple of days.”
100 percent. Our dealership sits in kind of a no-man’s land where its a good 35 miles in any direction before you come across any other dealerships- theres Our CDJR store and a Ford store in our town, and the next town over has a dual Subaru-Chevy Store.
That little Subaru Franchise probably sells as many cars as we do Jeeps and Rams, and were in the middle of truck country.
When we take in an Outback, Forester, or Ascent, they last about a week tops. Every sales guy here has someone to call when we get a Subaru.
Outbacks and Crosstreks are made (allegedly) with pride in Indiana so they are not too far off the mark.
I think maybe the strategy of placing dealers out in the more rural rust and snow belt markets where they saw the appeal the product could have over Honda and Toyota was part of it too.
For a long time If you wanted something awd that wasnt hard on gas, the first thing that came to mind was a Subaru. Nevermind that Toyota had the Rav4 and Honda had their CR-V, because most people didnt even know about them. But growing up around here in the 90s, subaru’s were everywhere, because there was a local dealership with a good reputation.
That kind of thing goes a long way towards getting a firm grip on a market.
They definitely targeted the right markets. I grew up in South Florida and the nearest Subaru dealership was almost 2 hours away in Central Florida. Not a lot of appeal for AWD in the tropics.
Not many folks in Lafayette, IN drive the subies made there.
Source: family there, so I get to take ‘vacations’. to. indiana.
That Subaru data sounds about right. I love Subaru’s and have been daily driving them for like 10 years now. But I do not ever really recommend a used Subaru to anyone but an enthusiast. They take an extra level of love and attention you have to plan on giving them to keep them happy. I’m comfortable with that, but my non car family members would not be.
Maybe that’s true of their sporty cars, but as far as an Outback/Forester kind of vehicle, they’re one of my go-to recommendations.
My closest experience with Subaru ownership was a coworker that inherited his mom’s Outback when she stopped driving. He would drive it a couple times a week to save some gas over his 4Runner and would complain often about how much more expensive and frequent the trips to the mechanic were in comparison to the 4Runner.
Oddly enough, I feel the same exact was as a 4Runner owner. I typically steer people away from them, unless they have the specific need of offroad capability. Other than that, the Highlander does literally everything better.
4Runners are reliable, but also quite needy in the way of maintenance, especially if one lives in the road salt state.
“Hate (working on cars?) It’s what makes Subaru…a Subaru”
Yeah, I have absolutely no interest in Subarus
I can’t not chuckle at the dry chemical vial, and I won’t apologize for that. You knew what you were doing when you put it in there.
I did a double take, saw the “Photo: Toyota”, thought to myself “Huh.” and then quickly scrolled down because I’m at work.
Who put what in where?
With a username like that, you can do some digging and find out.
You’d think with a username like that it would be right up their… alley.
User name checks out
Interesting picture provided by Toyota… On the Subaru side of things, I grew up DEEP in Subaru country. My family was an early adopter of the brand, as they were sort of the perfect vehicle for a city like Spokane. We had them from the 70’s all of the way through the early 2000’s, when the ol’ 2.5 headgasket sort of killed any goodwill we had for the brand. I will say, I have a deep fondness for the 80s and 90s era of Subaru.
I’ve never had a Subaru, but plenty of friends and family have. The old GL wagon was probably my favorite as a simple, functional vehicle that would do just about anything you would want besides accelerate. I’m still hoping someone will bring back some sort of modern version of this simplicity and functionality, but not sure it’ll ever happen.