Is a 2011 Nissan Leaf a better car for the planet than a 2011 Toyota Land Cruiser? Are you kidding? A small EV versus a fuel sucking big truck, right? The answer might not be as simple as it seems.
I constantly get customers at my manufacturing business asking “what’s your sustainability plan?”, and I know what they want to hear. Buzzwords like “recycled steel” and “plastic made from old water bottles” makes them happy, and while almost all of use these materials the bigger issue for sustainability seems to be how to get more years out of the products we sell; “reduce” and “reuse” is just as important as “recycle”.
Not only is that a potentially better way to help the planet, but it’s also great if you want to save pennies. This lifespan issue has been brought to the forefront recently by our own founder David Tracy and his seemingly saleproof old EV.
Imagine A Two Gallon Gas Tank
David purchased his 2011 Leaf a few years back with a highly depleted battery; despite only 60,000 miles on the clock, the range was down to something like 30 miles or less on a full charge. With a dented front fender, Mr. Tracy was able to pick this thing up for $2000 and it’s served him as rather reliable air-conditioned short-distance transportation since that time. Now he’s looking to sell it, and it appears he’d have an easier time selling two-week-old bottles of milk.
I have not seen this thing in person, but from the photos and description, it seems like a very clean and usable car. If this were an ICE-powered Nissan of similar vintage it would have a decade or more of life left in it and sell within hours for a decent chunk of change.
Manufacturers are constantly talking about the difficulty of recycling EV batteries in an environmentally sound way. What car companies talk about less is the financial pain the owner of an EV experiences when their battery becomes useful only in preventing the car from not blowing away. That’s a big issue that something like a 2011 Land Cruiser will never have: the big Toyota SUV will likely still be running when the new 2023 Leaf you’d have had to buy to replace your 2011 model goes the same way as the previous car. David isn’t sure how this will play out with his Leaf, but I’d hate to see his Leaf end up at Copart in the “depleted battery EVs” section.
Seriously, what do you do when your EV battery finally has a range of about 25 miles like David’s and your formerly $40,000 car is now worth nothing? What will the salvage yards do when they are full of shiny ten- or fifteen-year-old EVs where battery replacement dwarfs the value of the car? We’ve seen a YouTuber blow up his old Tesla and get a lot of hits, but that doesn’t work for most of us.
These Leafs are still clean, functioning automobiles that could serve an owner well into their sunset years. One thing that David said in his post was interesting:
“If I owned a resort I’d buy every dang one of these Leafs for $2000, paint each a fun color, remove the doors, and save bundles on transportation costs.”
That sounds like an interesting idea, albeit a crazy one, but after running it past the primary voice of reason here (Matt) it sounds as if it could be one worth exploring. It’s not like car recycling (or upcycling) hasn’t been done before, and right there in LA.
Just Thought That I Had To Be In Compton Soon
Compton, California is not far from where David is now, and Mr. Tracy likely has no knowledge of the pioneering gangsta hip hop from that LA neighborhood. He does, however, know about a bizarre and brilliant automotive recycling project that one company did right after World War II in that town.
During the postwar boom when everyone wanted a car and you could sell nearly anything, Powell Motors decided to offer an affordable car-based truck that was, in some ways, a very early crossover.
The mechanical parts of this truck were taken from 1941 Plymouth cars literally dragged from a junkyard to Powell’s Compton shop. This was California, so the rust-free parts were easily able to be repurposed. Cleaned up and installed under new bodies, the old Plymouth mechanicals took on a second life as a new, highly affordable vehicle.
Production stopped around 1956 for the simple reason that the supply of useable 1941 Plymouths had simply dried up.
Ah, but you know what is likely never going to dry up? The supply of end-of-life EVs that are looking at $6,000 to $12,000+ battery replacements. Do you know what else we are not in short supply of? Aging boomers moving into gated communities and giant retirement centers. What do the seniors in those locations roll in now?
Please Don’t Call It A Golf Cart
David mentioned in his post that even golf carts cost significantly more than even an old Leaf with similar or better range. Here’s a typical one (below); a four-seater with two passengers sitting where the golf clubs usually go. The range is quoted as being around 20 miles, and the top speed is only around 19 miles an hour.
There’s another type of machine specifically for retirement and vacation communities called LSVs, which stands for low-speed vehicles. One of the big players in this market is Global Electric Manufacturers, which offers a full range of LSVs from two-seaters all the way up to pickup-truck style versions for more industrial use.
On their website, GEM is insistent that you don’t call their vehicles “golf carts”:
It’s not a golf cart. And it’s not a highway vehicle. It’s an electric vehicle (EV) engineered for local streets. Unlike golf carts, GEM electric cars are street-legal on most roads at 35 mph (50 kmh) or less and travel at a maximum speed of 25 mph (40 kmh). Additionally, GEMs are engineered to exceed low-speed vehicle (LSV) federal safety standards.
Indeed, as an LSV the GEM features things like a backup camera, brake lights, and a horn, but it’s a lot closer to a golf cart than a “real” car like a Leaf. Their most popular model is supposedly the four-seat e4, which would be a four-door if it had doors.
As you can see above, the website says that the e4 “starts at around $17,490”, which means that with the doors and alloy wheels shown in the picture below it will be more than that.
True to David’s point, that’s a lot of money. Is David on to something with his repurposing scheme?
“SS” Stands For “Shower Spaghetti”
Maybe David would decide to start a new venture to make some money, since not all of you are Autopian Members yet and he has to do something to pay the staff and give you this compelling content. David’s firm, NewLeaf Motors, would have a database scouring classifieds across the Southwest and West Coast looking for desperate sellers of Nissan Leafs with batteries approaching paperweight status but still with some useable life left. Once received at NewLeaf Motors, David’s team would set to the task of converting each of these old EVs into a Leafster, or Leafster SS.
First, technicians inspect the old Leaf for proper operation and what kind of range it really has. Next, the doors and hatchback are removed and replaced with fiberglass trim surrounds and a cargo net in back. Add-on half doors might be an option, or you could leave the doors on (GEM offers doors as an option on their LSVs for like $4,000-5,000 extra).
Removing all that door weight makes the car sit a little higher, so it’s easier to get in and out of, further helped by the addition of larger white steelies. A push bar and a roof rack might be part of the “SS” package, offering extra space on top to carry things like giant inflatable toys to the pool for the grandkids.
The overall look is a beach buggy-type thing like a Fiat Jolly or even the modified Volare wagons on the TV show Fantasy Island.
The interior could be retrofitted with weatherproof covers and floor mats, which would also cover up the ten years worth of Taco Bell stains on the Leaf’s seat upholstery.
Depending on how depleted the battery is in the old EV, a Leafster’s range would likely be 25-30 miles. That doesn’t sound like much, but it’s enough for most people’s daily drives in the real world. My 60,000 mile plug-in hybrid can barely go 23 miles on battery power alone, but that will get me to the office and back without charging at work. Ah, but we aren’t talking about the Leafster being used in “the real world”; it’s for enclosed retirement communities. With a retirement center, you’d practically need to drive around all day to get that many miles. Besides, there will likely be lots of charging stations, and the weather is usually warm and conducive to good range.
Now, you might be thinking, “Ah, but GEMs offer more range.” Yes, but the big word there is offer. Take a peek at the chart below on their website for the e4 (you can click to expand it):
Look at the far-left column: the “base” $17,490 model has a range that isn’t any better than an old Leaf! If we compare a base battery GEM with the optional doors and alloy wheels shown (adding around five grand) to a 2011 Leaf with the same range, that means you could get around eleven or so old Leafs for identical cash:
That “up to 106 miles of range” stated on the GEM site is only with the top optional battery pack that adds a whopping $11,000 to the cost of this funny-looking $17,000 vehicle. Throw on that higher capacity battery and, with options, we’re talking about something pushing $30,000, or the price of a fleet of 15 old Nissan Leafs for what GEM swears is not a glorified golf cart, but it kinda sorta is.
A Leafster won’t be $30,000, that’s for sure. If New Leaf Industries can pick these old Leafs up for under $2000 each and keep the customization costs low, you could get something that does essentially everything a base model GEM does (and more) for literally a fraction of the cost of the add- on GEM battery pack alone.
Yes, I Already Know This Will Never Work
The comments section below is ready and waiting for you to tell us why an idea like this isn’t viable, and I’m sure I’ll agree with most of you naysayers. Here’s a problem I’m sure you’ll bring up: what do you do when the battery in your Leafster degrades to the point the car has a range of about 100 feet? Well, good news, NewLeaf Motors can fix that problem for around $2000 to $3000. Just take the fiberglass bits, seat covers, wheels, and other Leafster-specific items off of the 100-footer and simply stick them onto another $2000 Nissan Leaf. The old Leaf goes to the salvage yard, which does not solve the battery recycling issue but does kick it farther down the road. We’ll figure it out later, OK?
Is it really just me or is there something very wrong with that? To paraphrase Jeff Goldblum’s Jurassic Park character once again, we spent all this time trying to figure out how to make EVs but not what to do when they no longer work like we want them to. Or, to paraphrase Jake Blues, “This don’t look like no sustainability plan to me!”
Trying To Sell My Electric Car With A Bad Battery Is Borderline Impossible – The Autopian
Those “GEM’s” are the biggest ripoff in the world…don’t call it a golf cart?
Ripoff golf cart Ripoff golf cart!!!
The old degraded batteries have plenty of use in the second life community. It’s the old vehicle shell that looks to be in good shape that is hard to decide what to do with. Part of this is a sunk cost fallacy, part of it is weird flexing for getting a golf cart instead of a cheap beater Miata or truck (my wife wanted the golf cart, but bought cheap and built my own lithium battery for well under $1K).
The LEAF, particularly the oldest models, are quite prone to excessive battery degradation for a couple reasons, but the big one is lack of battery thermal management (aka, no cooling system). Nissan made incremental improvements to the chemistry over time which made them more heat resistant, and thus less prone to major degradation, but it’s still more of an issue than many other EVs, especially in hot climates, or on cars that see a lot of DC charging.
Depending on where you live, sourcing a good condition used LEAF pack can prove to be tricky (an potentially expensive), but here in the PNW, good condition packs from salvage yards are pretty plentiful (thanks to a lot of LEAFs on the road, and a mild climate). At last check, I could get a ~80% capacity or better 24kWh “Lizard” pack for ~$2-3k, and it only takes a couple hours to install with the proper tools.
One other benefit to the LEAF is that the batteries from newer models can be made to work in older ones without too much modification (even on a 2011-2012 model, the largest 62kWh pack can be retrofitted for over 200mi of range), however those larger batteries do tend to be pretty expensive, even on the used market… I’ve personally done quite a number of LEAF battery swaps/upgrades at my old place of employment, and of course now offer them at my new EV repair shop I opened up earlier this year in Portland.
Are the batteries really so expensive to replace? According to a quick web search a 24 kWh leaf battery is available for just under €3,500 in the EU. Add 20% for tax and €1,000 for the mechanic and you are good for go. (Of course David would not need a mechanic and would buy electrician’s rubber gauntlets in the washing up section of Walmart…) Just because you paid $2,000 for a car, does not mean it is worth “only” $2,000 and you should not invest more than that.
Still a whole lot cheaper than buying new…
The Bishop already admitted this will never work. Still, I can’t resist giving a reason why… It might be viable as a resort car, but as a golf cart replacement? Most “senior living communities” are governed by an HOA, which are run by small groups of insane grandmas with police powers. Good luck convincing Sgt Grandma that your old Leaf, with missing doors, is really a golf cart!! I’m laughing out loud just thinking about it! Just imagine David as an old man trying this!
Grandma won’t know the doorless Leaf from her neighbor’s faux Bentley golf cart.
See you at the clubhouse for Fried Chicken nite!
You could shave a lot more weight by ditching the room panel and trim. Just a roll of fabric appears to be enough cover for the Fiat and Volare examples!
I get you’re targeting this at communities like “The Villages” in Florida. I live in south Alabama, 10 miles from the beach. I’ve thought about a “Beach Car” and a Gen One Leaf has come to mind, but looking at I’d need a 50 mile range for the round trip that I’d consider the furthest point on a “Beach Run” (Flora-Bama for those who know the area. I’m a 20 mile round trip to “The Hangout”. Any closer to the coast and I couldn’t afford the property insurance!)
Could you charge it up while you play on the beach? One thing though.. isn’t The Villages run by an HOA?. What about your place? . if so, read my post above.
There are charging stations near the beach but not at the beach parking lots. No HOA where I live. I’ve made it a point throughout my life to avoid that.
Anyway..not gonna happen. But it is interesting
Calling Dr Chainsaw!! Your patient is waiting.