The Zimmerman car museum in El Segundo near LA was open for the final time on Sunday, and I had a chance to check it out before the doors closed forever. Here’s what that was like.
The closure of the “Zimmerman Automobile Driving Museum” — named because visitors can actually get rides in some of the classic cars — was covered by various news outlets including the LA Times which is how I learned about it, and likely why there were so many people there this past weekend.
It was a glorious collection of pretty much all American cars, and I had a chance to peek at it and help preserve its history. Check it out:
The details of the Zimmerman Car Museum’s closure are similar to those of the Mullin — the primary benefactor passed away, and there was nobody with enough interest/funding to continue on the legacy, as the LA Times reports:
View this post on Instagram
Still, the end of this beautiful nugget of car culture is what led me to visit it for the first time, and I had a lot of fun. Here, have a look at a Pontiac Fiero and a Chrysler Laser:
Check out some old early 1900s iron, including a Detroit Electric:
Here’s a room of Auburns, Cords, and Pierce Arrows:
Some more vintage iron:
Check out the Packard straight-8!
Plus there was an engine you could spin with a crank to teach/learn how internal combustion engine cars work:
Visitors had the chance to sit in this old Overland:
Look at that Chrysler Airflow in the background:
This was a one-off “Arex Roadster.” It’s an apparently 800 horsepower three-wheeler one-off developed by an engineer who’d worked at GM, Toyota, and Harley0Davidson. Under the hood is a twin-supercharged Chevy V8 apparently capable of ripping this thing from zero to 60 in three seconds:
A Cadillac Allante, and more Fiero:
Here’s more vintage iron:
Look at this lovely Edsel and Ford Falcon:
Here’s a World War II Jeep:
Check out this WWII Dodge truck, with a Bantam next to it, and an old Crosley next to it:
The Crosley’s chassis was nicely labeled:
How about some open-top fun, with a Cadillac in the foreground and a Corvair in the back:
The Studebaker Wagonaire, with its beautiful rear top retracted:
Hey look, a Japanese car!:
I loved seeing the OG Plymouth Voyager minivan:
And the Mustang/Studebaker Vanti/Willys Jeepster/Nash Metropolitan lineup was choice!:
This museum, and the Mullin before it, have me worried about the future of car culture. So many ol’-timers have propped car culture up over the years, and while I’m all for change, I do worry about certain luxuries going away. It’s not just car museums, but also the folks who rebuild our starter motors/radiators/leaf springs/etc.
Is that era of craftsmanship going to remain?
I say this because everyone who has helped me braze a radiator or bend leaf spring U-bolts or redo my speedometer or even sell me a new-old-stock part for my Willys Jeep has been over the age of about 60. In 20 years, will we have museums to visit, parts to buy, ways to keep our old classics on the road without having to pay an arm and a leg?
Or am I worrying about something every generation before me has worried about?
Get your sponsor Galpin Motors to buy it. Would be a great draw to get people into the dealership to buy something new. Then they could take tax deduction for maintaining it as business expense. And what better way to get people to come to your open houses?
It appears that you are the Jessica Fletcher of the car museum circuit.
DT, you need to stop going to museums. Im sensing a trend here that is slightly disturbing.
All joking aside, it’s sad to see these go, but what do you expect? Kids these days don’t appreciate things from the past and when that happens and the old timers start passing, what’s the point?
Which is why the values will sink like a stone in a pond in another dozen years. Good gods. What exactly is a carburetor again?
Sorry, but any comment that starts with “kids these days” is difficult to take seriously. It’s overgeneralizing and reductive.
Kids these days are learning, growing, struggling, succeeding, and failing, with their lives and interest, just as you were way way back when you were only a “kids these days”.
Besides, you know who has historically donated to museums and paid for tickets to visit them? It’s never been kids and young adults.
It’s always been middle-aged and older adults, particularly those who are old enough to be well-off and able to afford making the donations. Therefore, you know who isn’t visiting or donating to these museums? “Adults these days.”
Nothing to be sorry for, it was a tongue in cheek comment.
Historically speaking in the context of me, who is one of the kids in the grand scheme of things, I have donated to museums by visiting them.
No I am not able to afford a huge donation but the visits yes. And I don’t disagree that adults aren’t visiting them either on the scale they used to. That’s obvious as they are shutting down.
Each generation has had their trials and tribulations but I don’t envy the actual kids and the path they have to navigate currently. Times definitely seemed easier 20-30 years ago when I was an actual kid.
Sorry, I missed the humor then. My fault.
There’s enough older people who sincerely disparage “kids these days” without thinking it through, that I get annoyed and defensive.
/ I’m solidly middle-aged; also >25 years since anyone might consider me a kid.
Im not quite as far along as you yet but definitely far enough off from being a kid. Always been that kind of old soul type growing up on things from yester-years like jukeboxes and pinball machines and whatever other nonsense like that.
I don’t see the hate but have a hard time connecting with them. I always think back to the stupid things I did as a kid and how annoying I must have been haha
Is this going to be an going series? Hey here is a cool car museum that just closed so while you can’t see it, it was awesome! Maybe it’s just that it’s 2 days before the US elections, but this raises my anxiety level.. I need to go out to the garage..
I’d like a series covering museums that might close in the next year, and to get an opportunity to actually go visit them!
I was just out in CA, near El Segundo three weeks ago!!
I should have looked up museums. That would have been fun. That’s on me, and I’ll try to do that more in the future.
But I’d love to see some more articles about museums from BEFORE they close.
Maybe a whole article on great car museums? We might even save a few from having to close!
That would be great.
Maybe by region?
Sure, Southern CA has alot, and I travel there some.
I also travel to the east coast.
Autopians live all over the world.
I love the Indianapolis Motor Speedway museum, in my regional neighborhood, but there are certainly others I don’t know about.
That’s not *just* a Fiero, that’s a 1988 Pontiac Fiero with the sort-of-aftermarket T-Tops. Exceedingly rare.
I want it. I’ve been 3 years without a Fiero.
Yeah, I’m a little worried about the future and longevity of car culture as a whole.
But, hey, if all the people who like the cars I like.. uh.. “move on,” then I get to buy them for cheap! Right?
That white Chrysler New Yorker looks delectable… mmm
As an air-cooled VW (mostly) person, there used to be VW rebuilders everywhere. When I was looking for a stock rebuilt engine for my ’67 squareback five years ago, I had difficulty finding a bug/bus engine rebuilder let alone someone familiar with the subtle but important differences for a Type 3 engine. Yeah, I could ship it out to one of the remaining $10,000-engine builders, but that is way out of my budget. I contacted some folks who were closing their VW engine shop, and their Type 3 specialist had already retired. They managed to coax them out of retiement to build me an engine. That kind of specialist knowledge and equipment is getting scarce.
In a few years (hopefully) I will be looking for someone to rebuild my ’64 F100 292 Y-block engine with 350k original miles on it. I suspect I will have to ship it out to who knows where to have it done, and it will be expensive. I hope to find a You-Tuber wants to document a rare find such as this one. How often does such an well-worn engine get to be documented during the teardown. There is even a hook for viewers as there is one major internal part that was replaced.
The good news about 60-year-olds is they’re still making them. Takes a while, but we’ve got a pretty solid pipeline.
Sure, but what will tomorrow’s 60 year-olds know is the question? FI supplanted carbs in the 80s so it won’t be all that long before a 60 yo may have almost no firsthand experience with carbs at all, except maybe on their mower.
I foresee a future in weird TikTok video preservation. That is, until the next big thing comes along in a few months.
I enjoyed their annual “Malaise Days” events –
I knew the guy who owned that silver Firebird – he later had a DeLorean, which we went to a drive-in screening of “Back to the Future” in.
Did you see the ’41 Cadillac and the ’59 Cadillac convertible? Yeah, was driven around in both of those.
I always wanted that gold Thunderbird Fordor Landau.
It was a great little museum that hardly anyone knew about.
oh shit, I left my wallet there one time
Came here to make this joke, glad to see it’s already been covered.
Typo on the Avanti, forgot the A.
Also… I think that’s an Avanti R2 (supercharged), making it a seriously fast car.
A lot of studebakers are largely forgotten because people forgot the brand, but I think the Lark with the R2/R3 engine package is seriously under the radar of most enthusiasts, and it would likely blow the doors off from what most people are driving. Total sleeper. Maybe one of the best of all time.
Some marques are more future-proofed than others. Popular cars (Model A & T, tri-Chevies, Mustangs) will be fine. Oddballs depend on community passion: parts for my son’s Kaiser were nearly unobtanium, but there are THREE(!?!) vendors who will sell me almost anything for my Crosley. The Crosley club is doing a good job building interest by sponsoring youth projects cars. The main Crosley vendor has been in business since the 1940s and just changed hands to a new owner.
Hope you didn’t leave your wallet there…..
Maybe you should just stop going to car museums?
THIS! DT is the grim reaper of car museums! It started with his yard back in Michigan, and now it’s really spreading in California!
Kind of like electronics surplus stores in Silicon Valley. The factories went away, so the surplus went away, and nowadays there aren’t many customers either. So the stores are closing one by one.
There was a pretty amazing electronic supply store in my broadly general area that I went into a few times. I didn’t have enough knowledge or need for what they sold but it was impressive to see the selection of components they kept in stock.
The ownership retired and the store closed.
This is on my mind more these days; it’s what led to the proposed question for Jay Leno about how we can maintain the existing body of automotive knowledge as people age out and retire.
I’ve mentioned this before, but I liked the early seasons of Wheeler Dealers with Edd China and Mike Brewer. Mike’s parts weren’t super interesting, except when he was visiting an out-of-the-way shop so someone with very specialized skills could make or restore a part. I appreciated his commitment to engaging small, local practitioners like that.
Edd’s youtube channel is excellent if you haven’t given it a try.
It is something to worry about but then you’ve also got the Hoovies and of the Robert Dunns world collecting classics and obscure things, so there’s some young influencers that are keeping car culture going.
Devil’s advocate here… maybe this means lower pricing for people who want to own and drive these cars, instead of them getting dusty in buildings where no one goes to look at them.
Except the numbers with the inclination, disposable income, space, and skills to own older analog cars is dropping with each generation. I meet 20/30-somethings at car shows. They admire the cars but don’t have the commitment to pursue owning one.
That’s not a knock on the youts, just an observation that they have different values, interests, and risk tolerance and that’s probably a good thing. As a car lover, I just despair that all these loved classics may not have a caretaker in the future.
It’s because they’re drowning in student debt and can’t afford housing.
Just like I was 40 years ago. I ended up getting a series of increasingly better jobs, paid off the debt, bought the first of many houses, got married. Like every generation before me and after me.
Yeah, it’s not the same playing field, dude.
https://i.redd.it/79rbjoet7a981.jpg
I started uni in 81. When I graduated with degrees in computer science and electrical engineering in 86 my starting salary was 45k not minimum wage. Post graduation, I lived cheaply and paid off my loans quickly while acquiring my first home. I received regular raises and took a part time masters degree program in software engineering sponsored by my employer. I regularly manage teams with young people on a similar career track and they tell me it’s hard work but doable. The salaries they are receiving have kept pace with inflation.
In my experience it’s pretty much the same playing field. My parents experience was much the same as mine.
I’m sorry you feel that way, but it’s not the case. Facts > Feelings
https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS
It’s not the same playing field at all. You can believe whatever you want but data says otherwise. Also, 45k in 1986 adjusted for inflation is $133k/year. Tell me, oh wise wrong one, what tends to be the salary for engineers fresh out of school? Hint: Not 130k lol
It’s absolutely not the same at all. Housing prices and income haven’t even been close to keeping pace with one another.
We bought our first house for almost $400k in our 30s. In 5 years it has nearly doubled. There is no “increasingly better series of jobs” you are getting in that span of time to make up that much ground, unless you’re running guns to Guatemala or something.
Old cars appeal to a specific demographic. They can also be a pain in the ass.
I am 58 and my mid-80s dad has a number of 50s/60s era cars that I probably will not be able to do anything with if he were to ever give them to me… being I live in a parking garage apartment building and love how my EV just works every time I hit the “on” button.
Having said that…. My uncle still owns formerly my 1990 Miata….
Purchase cost might come down, but I think ownership costs and the reduction in disposable income for such things as well as what’s likely to become a more hostile environment to using them in terms of legislation, logistical support, and public sentiment as good memories involving cars fade away (or are never formed) will all increase ownership costs and reduce appeal. I picture it as them all becoming like the proverbial old “cheap” luxury car that one might be able to afford to buy, but not to own.
Decades ago, most people could drive a manual, now I know very few people even my age (48)—never mind younger—and most of the few who can only sort-of can in that they can get the vehicle from one place to another, but not with long term mechanical sympathy or skill. Of the older people I know who can drive a manual, I can’t think of any who have done so in decades. Not to measure car enthusiasm strictly by manual appreciation, I just think it’s an example of where the whole thing is headed. I’ve known more than a few people who never cared about cars until they so happened to come across a certain one or knew someone who let them drive something that connected with them in a way that they finally understood why people like them. As cars get increasingly less exciting, an increasing number of people are not being exposed to cars that are enjoyable to drive, that have a connection with the environment, or that inspire through design, so they never know the difference and they are all effectively lost potential enthusiasts as, even if they might have the interest to pursue on their own, the cost of entry gets higher as the cost of other life essentials goes up. For me, I never got into motorcycles not because I don’t understand the appeal, but because they’re fairly frivolous (especially in New England) and take a chunk of limited money away from other things I already enjoy and that have lower ownership costs or are better investments or are more useful. I imagine the future of interesting cars falling into a similar category for many people and that’s not even factoring a reduced likelihood of inherent interest than I have for motorcycles.
Private museums are practically impossible to maintain. They burn cash and you really need to exploit all possible revenue streams. I commend those giving it a go though…
And you really need to have a strategy for after the primary funder dies.
Even Paul Allen’s Living Computers: Museum + Labs in Seattle shut down after he died. Despite all the money sloshing around in the pockets of people who got rich through technology, nobody was willing to pay for it to stay in operation.
Well, and his sister stole the bequests.
We are overdue for a similar shake out in historic house museums, not every nice old house needs to be a museum, too damn many for too few visitors
One can argue that private museums are more or less tax dodges, in the same way that writing off a ridiculously expensive vehicle as a business expense because you put your company name on the door is a tax dodge.
Foundations can be the same thing.
And often are. Which is why I’m skeptical of any veteran-related charitable foundations in particular.
“The Human Fund”
David, perhaps the Autopian needs to do a regular (or irregular) series about various car museums out there… Otherwise your last-call visits are going to be viewed with the same love (or fear) The Weather Channel’s Jim Cantore gets when he shows up in a town shortly before some weather-related disaster.
And make the reviews stickies, or file them somewhere easy to locate for trip planning.
Honestly, at this point The Autopian needs easier/better archive search than the current function for all its’ content..
I really like the idea of a museum spotlight series. I’m sure there’s lots of logistical and legal hurdles I wouldn’t even know about but maybe they can even allow for reader submitted articles for that series to get more coverage
For me Johnson & Wood in North Hollywood closing was the biggest sign that the era of fun garage built stuff was over in Los Angeles. Used to spend tons of time there digging through greasy boxes looking for UJM parts that they somehow ALWAYS seemed to have.
To overall society, people who like wrenching on stuff are at best a curiosity but mostly a nuissance.
To add to that, it’s crazy how many junkyards no longer allow you to pull your own parts. They won’t let you in the yard for liability reasons… literally almost every junkyard I grew up with, and have tons of memories of pulling parts and learning things, all no longer allow you in the yard. It really, really, really sucks, and I think it’s a huge blow to car culture as well as people without a lot of money.
Relatedly, this also seems to apply to people making stuff. There are more parts, machines (3D printers! Desk top milling machines! Free software! You don’t have to know G-code!), video tutorials, etc. for cheaper than ever before (some of the few things that have done so), yet there seem to be fewer regular people making stuff. I feel like I knew more regular kinds of people who would repair, repurpose, or make things when I was a kid than I do now and they just did it, they didn’t go around labelling themselves as “makers” (such a goofy term), it was accepted as a normal thing to do (maybe it was being around when the Greatest Generation who grew up having to do that kind of stuff was still fit enough to do so that colors my perception). The types of things I make that impress people most are something I find astounding because they’re always impressed by the simpler things and often don’t even notice the more difficult stuff, indicating to me that, while they are attracted to the novel and the idea of making things or else they wouldn’t approach me to ask about them, they are so removed from it themselves that they don’t recognize the more challenging project from the simpler. Maybe this is just what it is to get old.
I think part of this was because things were made to be fixable and not engineered to be disposable. Right-to-repair wasn’t really a thing, but now we actually have to fight companies to make things that we can fix.
Companies have more rights than humans here, they are at least partially to blame for the serving-size culture.
I certainly agree when it comes to electronics or mechanical stuff run by electronics—I completely understand people not bothering to learn how to fix cars today. My nephew was asking about that stuff over a year ago and I didn’t know where to start since the basic foundation is so far removed from the tech of modern cars and it’s not like one can just start poking around figuring out what stuff does so much anymore or pointing it out for someone else’s benefit. Some of that is me, though, as I’m a terrible teacher, always getting into the weeds on the technical detail and history of stuff, which makes everything overwhelming, but I don’t know where to cut back without being so basic that it’s essentially worthless unless, in this example, the kid wants to rebuild a lawnmower engine, but he was asking about the turbo GDI in his dad’s Cadillac. Pretty soon, I’m describing the characteristics of GDI German fighters in WW2 vs the carbureted Allied planes. At least there are youtube videos.
Mainly, though, it’s the stuff like bikes and furniture that can be very easy, have gentle, self-selected learning curves with minimal investment weighed against overpriced new junk or expensive good stuff. Decent examples of that kinds of stuff is literally given away or cost cheap money and repairs/modifications/cleaning is cheap in terms of necessary tools to start (most of which are useful for all kinds of projects/repairs) and materials that might be needed (in general, certainly there are exceptions to be found after getting a better look at something, but when that happens, back in the trash it goes or maybe there’s at least some parts worth saving). It’s pretty difficult to completely screw bikes or furniture up, but even if someone does, it was being discarded, anyway and it would still be worth it for the lesson. Of course, I know not everyone can do this as there are some people who are just completely hopeless when it comes to using tools or anything like that, but simple projects should be pretty accessible to most. Ultimately, though, it’s not even about the result itself, it’s the satisfaction of having fixed/saved/made something yourself—the IKEA Effect cubed. If I was a competent teacher and liked dealing with people, maybe I’d collect a bunch of furniture and teach some introductory classes on this kind of thing or bike repair.
I’m for all of that. Our culture of “everyone should attend college” is complete BS. Some people absolutely shouldn’t bother with college. Lots of people would rather work with their hands, and college is often a different type of intelligence that isn’t necessary for other, still complicated, jobs.
In addition, there’s a dearth of good plumbers/electricians/HVAC techs/etc and those jobs pay REALLY well if you’re any good. Plus you can skip all the student debt while you climb the salary ladder.
My wife and I joke if we ever had a girl we’d push her to be a plumber if she had any inclination and she could probably just name her own hourly rate. As someone who is a white collar fixer of things (IT here), I would fix shit for free because I like helping people and making broken things work again.
There’s nothing wrong with fixing stuff for a living and it can be a lucrative path that doesn’t require massive student debt.
If I had known how things would go, I’d have gone into a trade and I’d likely be semi retired today. Besides some elements of design school, I hated school. I was somewhat popular without any attempt to be so and lucky enough to be able to teach myself what I needed to know when the standard teaching model didn’t work for me, but I still hated it. I had nightmares about forgetting high school assignments and the rotating class schedule well into my 30s. I would rather be shot to death than go back, never mind pay out the ass for the “privilege”.
Preach. I was good at “school” without a lot of effort, but I’m not sure that’s a great setup for future success tbh. Test-taking isn’t the most useful skill except in limited real-life circumstances (getting certs, etc).
And with schools largely run as profit centers today, to say nothing of textbook companies and everyone else who has a hand in your pocket BESIDES your school…. It’s a scam, man.
A necessary one for some career paths, but forcing people there as a default is foolishness.
It’s no less amazing to watch someone teardown an engine from memory, troubleshoot a carburetor (I swear some 4 barrels operate on magic and hopes), or do a string alignment in their garage than it is to witness an HVAC tech properly size equipment to your space with a manual J. None of that is less impressive to me than some white collar wizardry people marvel at. The stigma for the trades needs to end, because current pricing shows that trades are incredibly valuable and we need more conscientious participants.
The stigma was a problem for me. Back then, it was only the “problem kids and losers” that went into the trades while I was “too smart” for that and I only hated school because I was lazy (now called ADD). Later, working in an office for a few years, some of the dumbest and most useless people I’ve met held degrees and worked in those cubicles. Now try to find a trustworthy electrician who only charges both arms and a single leg. Never having had any vices, I’d be way ahead of the game in that field. Hell, we got a quote to PAINT the walls and trim of a room of about 900 sq ft (part over a single flight of stairs) in an open room and a small bathroom and they wanted $16 f’n grand! I did it myself for a couple hundred getting high end paint and it came out great because painting walls is pretty damn easy if you’ve picked up a couple minor tricks from doing it before and spent a little time on prep. Didn’t even bother trying to price out someone building the 18′ of built-in shelving and cabinets as I just did that myself, learned a few small things (I had never made doors before and I ended up having to make 10), and I love that I did it. Took me longer, but I probably used better materials than a contractor would have and it all cost me about $2k and a few hours after work every day, so it wasn’t like I was beating myself up to get it done, either.
Like audiophiles, this market is losing its value. The good news is if you like old stuff it is gonna get cheaper. Because there is no market for it. Bittersweet.
If you can find it. I’m a cheap son-of-a-bitch and would attempt repairs on electrical/electronic stuff. There was a place called pacific electronics that would have resistors, transistors and other stuff. They disappeared. Then Fry’s electronics had everything from a coil to a computer. They went toes up. Now there’s no place w/in 50 miles to buy components.
Definitely sad about this one. I’ve spent a fair amount of time in that museum, and even in the seats of some of those cars, as this was the chosen location of the Malaise Daze car show that the Malaise Motors Facebook group has hosted for a few years now.
I too have the same concern about craftsmen who keep this hobby alive dying out. In the 20+ years I’ve been wrenching as a hobby I’ve seen several old school guys who I’ve used to do some sort of specialty work retire, and their businesses either closed with them or went downhill under different ownership.
Autopian needs to be more proactive and cover the museums BEFORE they close. That way we can visit them and hopefully prevent them from closing.
I’ve stayed in the El Segundo area several times, but never heard of this museum.
Nethercutt, here I come!
Yes! Been there twice while living nearby and loved it.
In fairness they announced the closure of this one pretty abruptly without much warning. I wanted to visit one last time before it closed but just wasn’t able to.
Autopian has their own survival to worry about. Like they say on the airplane… You gotta put your mask on first.
Maybe, but articles about things the readership are interested in is key to that, so this seems like a win-win if enough people want it.
I am sure their readers want a lot of things covered.
Yeah, but David Tracy already likes visiting car museums. Why not give the people what they want and enjoy yourself all while making some money?
Because this is not a car museum website. It is a car website.
What exactly do you think they keep in those car museums? And how is an article about a museum that provides rides in their cars not content that should live here?
Also, this site is for everything cars. There have been more than a few delightful articles on Matchbox/Hot Wheels, Mercedes basically has an entire series on campers at this point, and I’m here for all of it.
Just because you refuse to enjoy it, that doesn’t mean others don’t. I’m pretty sure David Tracy is more than capable of writing a museum piece every once in a while. It’s not an all or nothing proposition for writing and could serve as a jumping off point into a larger discussion of certain vehicles. There is also the side benefit of potentially serving to indoctrinate more into the Autopian readership as parents take their kids to said museums, which may kick off a love affair with motoring.
With nearly 100 comments on this piece already, it’s certainly worth a thought.
The original statement was “ Autopian needs to be more proactive and cover the museums BEFORE they close”. My statement was they need to worry about themselves staying open and I stand by that. Being the savior of car museums is nothing at all that the Autopian should focus their attention on.
Al Camino literally lists a website below that DOES exactly that by covering the museums.
When I’m going on a vacation or road trip, I always check this excellent guide to see what museums I can visit. I also get their weekly update email, which unfortunately also features closing museums, which seems to be a trend. https://automotivemuseumguide.com/
Thanks, was not aware of that site. Added to my travel bookmarks.
An excellent resource: thanks!