It snowed here in North Carolina yesterday, and, predictably everyone lost their shit. North Carolina, despite getting snow with at least some degree of regularity, if not that much snow, doesn’t deal well with snow at all. I mean, roads get plowed and brine gets sprayed and, generally, the infrastructure works as it should, but nearly everyone who ends up driving seems deeply unhappy. Not just unhappy, though: nervous. And the way many, many drivers express their nervousness is by turning on their hazard lights. This is a terrible idea, and should stop.
I noticed this as I was picking up Autopian co-dummy David from the airport last night. It was dark but clear, and the roads weren’t great. Not terrible, but there were slick patches and it definitely demanded more attention than a normal jaunt down the 40. Visibility wasn’t a problem, which I thought might be a justification for putting on some blinky lights, but that’s not really what people are thinking. They’re thinking this sucks, I don’t feel confident driving in it, so I want people to know. Hence the hazards.
I know some may feel it makes their car more visible in poor conditions. In really awful visibility conditions, a rear fog lamp is a much better solution, but those are not common in the US. Maybe the hazards could help a bit there, but even then, it’s illegal to do so in plenty of states!
I think mostly people just seem to use them when they don’t feel comfortable driving in some crappy situation.
And that’s not necessarily a bad instinct, really! The problem is that when an uncomfortable driver puts on their hazard lights, they’re actually doing more than they realize. They’re also eliminating their ability to indicate when they intend to turn, which is a pretty big deal. Nervous people who decided to turn their hazards on still need to change lanes and exit freeways and make turns, and those hazards are eliminating their ability to do just that.
Driving with your hazards on also diminishes the impact of cars that really need to identify themselves as a true hazard: cars that are stuck or broken down or otherwise immobile.
While it’s definitely more fun to blame those drivers that just use their hazard lights in any kind of bad weather or when they feel Mercury is in retrograde or they had some bad clams or whatever, the truth is that the real issue is with the hazard lights themselves.
Back in the day when they were first mandated, in 1966, blinking all four turn indicators was by far the easiest way to get the desired effect. The turn signals were the only lights already configured to flash, after all. But it’s become clear that they’re not the best choice, because, again, they eliminate an extremely important feature of taillights: turn signals. And for that I will not stand.
We live in an automotive era where it would not be hard to, while still using only existing hardware, find a new way to make hazard lights work. On some cars, I suspect changes could be made with over-the-air updates! Regardless of how it’s done, there are viable options that I firmly think would work better as a hazard indicator than just blinking all the turn signals.
This was an idea David had: blink the indicators as normal, but when the turn signal stalk is moved to actually indicate a turn, switch hazard functionality to the CHMSL (center high-mount stop light). Here’s a mockup of how that may look:
That does preserve the function of the turn signals, but I think it’s a bit too complex. I have another idea: what if we make those reverse lights earn their keep a little bit more?
Reverse lights are nice and bright, they never flash when in actual reversing use, and I think they would definitely get attention. And, of course, all normal functions like turn indicating and braking and normal taillights or whatever are completely intact.
Also, I don’t think anyone will assume the driver is rhythmically shifting into and out of reverse gear, because people aren’t that stupid. Maybe in parking lots some people may get pissed because they see a flash that suggests someone is backing out of a spot, like how GM uses them when a car is locked/unlocked. And no one really likes that. But I think this context and behavior will be different enough (GM tends to keep them on longer, for example) to avoid that issue.
Now, I don’t have a solution for what to do up front; I think for the front, if there is a separate side/parking light/DRL, then that is definitely what should blink; if not, I guess we can grudgingly stay with the indicators. But for new cars, that have to have DRLs already, I think we can demand that! Why not?
So, here’s my proposal: until we change how hazard lights work – which we should, and I think that means blinking the reverse lamps in rear, the DRLs up front – then people shouldn’t use their hazards when they’re just unsure of how they’re driving or are uncomfortable with the conditions. I get that it feels safer and there is some benefit to letting the world know, but it does more harm than good.
I’ll go around to all of my usual taillight bar and bathhouse hangouts and spread the word of flashing-reverse hazard lights, and see how it plays out. But I’ll need everyone’s help if we’re to make this change a reality! Or, if you have a better idea, tell me in the comments! I’ll listen! With my eyes! By reading!
I didnt know this was a thing until maybe the past 5-7 years ago. No one did this in Texas until recently, now when you go down the highway every other car has their hazards on in the rain.
GM cars using their reverse lights for lock/unlock is parking lot crime. I hate it so much. It’s very difficult to tell that actually, no, this car isn’t going to run into you or even move at all because we didn’t want to blink the hazards once and make car go “beep” like a normal god damn manufacturer.
I actually coded my BMW to turn on the reverse lights when i unlock the door so that there was more light back there.
Totally agree. I ride my bike to the grocery store on occasion and it seems like EVERY DANG TIME there is a GM car with the reverse light on. I really don’t feel like getting run over by someone not paying attention, so it really drives me nuts.
Just as large an issue is folks who use high-beams when travel is difficult. Particularly at night. In the case of fog, rain, or snow, it’s counterproductive and potentially dangerous for everyone involved.
I also noted a few folks during this last snowfall (also in North Carolina) that simply ignored traffic signs and signals. One actually wove his way through cross traffic to go to a grocery store, when he had a red light. This gent crossed a roadway with a 45mph speed limit, six lanes wide, and he simply kept rolling despite oncoming vehicles, at speed, with the right-of-way. Not an older driver either – and yes, he had his hazards on. And it isn’t the first driver that has pulled that stunt where I live, just a single example.
I grew up near Detroit and drove commercial vehicles in the city during my college years to make money. Bad weather was a challenge, but the folks there mostly knew what they were doing.
Here in North Carolina, it’s actually a good thing when everything shuts down in bad weather, because so many drivers either overestimate their ability, or panic and make it dangerous for everyone else who DOES know how to handle the situation.
I’m receptive to the notion of questioning the effectiveness of hazard lights, but disagree with the premise that they need to communicate the circumstances more specifically.
Humans are basic animals, and throwing on the hazards to indicate that there is something going on with A) the driver, B) the vehicle, or C) the road conditions is an efficient way to communicate that. The correct response to any of those circumstances is to give that vehicle a wide berth. The inability to use turn signals while the hazards are on doesn’t matter. You should still give them lots of room and assume they may turn.
It’s as simple as it gets, and when something weird is going on, simple is what you want.
its actually a horrible idea
OH GOD I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE DO THIS. And they’re ALWAYS going 10mph in the left lane!
This might actually be an argument in favor of the animated turn signals that are growing in popularity (Mustangs, Audi, Mazda, etc.) where there’s a rolling/fading effect to indicate a turn. Hazard mode on the same vehicle generally doesn’t use the animation.
Any rain in Houston and the freeways turn into a sea of blinking orange, which I can’t stand for reasons you note above, namely, the inability to differentiate an actual stopped car that is a hazard amongst the slow moving blinking idiots. Just turn on your lights folks. Your rear lights are enough to be seen. No one is going to suddenly realize it is a downpour just because your lights are flashing and slow down. There are other indicators such as, you know, the downpouring rain that indicate we should slow down.
Tangential sidenote….I hate GM’s reverse lights even more. The number of times I’ve stopped to allow an empty GM to back up not realizing the driver is gone and the stupid reverse lights are still on is infuriating. To the point where I just don’t stop. If a GM has reverse lights, the driver can wait for me to pass since they chose to buy a car that doesn’t understand basic light function. I’m not sitting for two minutes trying to decide if the stupid GM has a driver or just wants everyone to know that at one point during the last 3 minutes the car was in reverse for a microsecond….
Counterpoint to that: if you’re driving slow but aren’t riding the brakes, the idiot behind you scrolling TikTok might not notice you’re going slower than him unless you draw his attention to it. Something interesting about driving in Mexico is that it’s 100% normal to flip your hazards on any time you’re slowed below the normal speed for that road. Even if you’re slowing down for one of the weird speed bumps on the highways in the Yucatan, you flip on your hazards.
Contrast that to where I live, Minnesota, and almost every commute you see some driver yanking his car into the breakdown lane to avoid a crash because he wasn’t paying attention and didn’t notice the guy in front of him was slowing down.
Totally agree on the GM reverse lights. Those are ridiculous.
Counter-counterpoint: The tik-tok idiot isn’t going to notice either way. So I argue, don’t dilute the meaning of hazard lights. Two different root causes to address here. And as with many things in Mexico, it varies a lot depending on where you are, much like the cuisine. I spend a lot of time in Nuevo Leon and can’t ever recall seeing hazards used regularly there.
Either take, I think we can agree with Torch that another solution would be ideal.
PS: Go Twins! Go Wild!
Here’s a helpful hint with the reverse lights. If they are on, and the car isn’t moving, and the brake lights aren’t on, then they are on for illumination.
Or the brake lights are burnt out because most people never bother to see if any of their lights are working.
We need a new “I should have stayed home” light
Canadian here. This is not complicated. Hazards are to be used in low visibility situations such as whiteouts to increase visibility of your vehicle especially when your rear taillights may be partially obscured by snow and ice buildup. Every bit of light helps in that situation. When you intend to turn, disengage hazards, engage indicator signal, safely complete your turn, re-engage hazards as necessary. Get to rink in time to ensure world hockey supremacy.
Binnington was unbelievable in OT last night. And you, like him, are a champion when it comes to common sense.
I’m humbled. Thank you for your kind words and yes, what a performance in OT. Spectacular game, amazing what our countries can do when we work together and compete as equals!
I disagree that the issue is with the lights. The issue is education and what they’re intended use is. The amount of people on 76 in Pennsylvania that camped in the left lane with their hazards on in the RAIN was absolutely ridiculous. Arrest them and send them to driver education camps.
I’m finding issues with all these alternatives. How about, instead, everyone just makes sure their lights are on so that at least their parking lamps are illuminated. If we could get people to flick on their lights instead of going right for the hazzards, that would be 99% as effective as the flashing for improving visability, while not communicating to everyone that you’re a terrible driver and you might crash at any moment.
If I have to slam on my brakes because of an unseen slowdown, my hazards go on briefly to alert the traffic behind me. If I am driving in a torrential downpour where driving over 30 is impossible, my hazards go on until visibility is back. I appreciate those who do as well in those heavy rains. I live in NJ and these numbnuts don’t realize it is law to turn on your headlights in general if you need to use your windshield wipers. So when I see flashing, I have a guide. For those intense storms I enabled the European rear fog lights on my convertible. It may be illegal-ish but it makes sense.
For those that drive them blinkers on because OH MY GOD I see snow/rain/regular traffic congestion/salmon spawning, yeah, I can’t agree more with this article.
rear fogs arent illegal. theyre just not recognized in the US.
I live in Chapel Hill,
the real issue is that people just cant drive in NC, rain, snow, sunny day on a straight road, somehow, someone will cause a wreck or send themselves into the trees.
the whole state needs better drivers ed.
You think it’s just ONE state? I travel for a living, I have been to every state but Nevada (oddly enough) – Americans suck at driving *everywhere*, without exceptions.
How they suck at it does vary, I will grant you that.
Its not that your state, or any other needs “better” drivers ed. It needs re-inforcement of drivers ed. The idea that you’re tested at 16 years old and NEVER AGAIN is head scratching.
If I had to sit down this afternoon and retake the permit test – I’d bet against myself passing. Yet the state trusts I’ve retained all knowledge of the rules of the road.
I live in the Triangle and disagree. Drivers here are no worse than many other places I’ve been. A big problem we have when it snows is that we have a lot of transplants from the north who are use to driving on salted roads and dry snow, neither of which we have here. We don’t get enough snow to invest in salting (we brine instead) and it’s not usually cold enough to get a dry snow, we instead get a snow-sleet-freezing rain mix that no one can drive in. Combine that with the natives who don’t see snow often, and you end up with a lot of cars off the road
what you think Michiganians don’t drive in June?
I grew up in Raleigh and I disagree. See Tim R’s comment. States that border the frequent snow zone like NC end up getting more ice than easily plowed snow. Combine that with road crews that may only need to go out once or twice a year (less experience) and a combination of drivers that are overconfident (from up north) and underconfident (from further south) and you get a perfect storm of too fast + too slow + icy patches.
While I fully agree on the hazards while driving making things worse, it’s not the most egregious Hazard sin.
The “PARK ANYWHERE” mode is the most sinister use of Hazard lights.
This still doesn’t solve the problem of people using them while moving. Maybe another set of hazards for “It’s weather and I don’t know how to drive!” With modern LEDs they could do quick blinks of like the reverse, like school buses have on their top, not blinding but lets people know
To be fair, people don’t understand hazard flashers even when they are used correctly.
Some years back, I was sitting in a left turn lane when my car shut down and refused to restart. I turned on the hazards, and still people kept getting in line behind me.
To be clear, this was a double left turn. Avoiding me was very easy to do.
So I put up the hood, both as an attempt to diagnose the problem, and as a secondary indication of disabled vehicle. Still, people kept getting in line behind me.
Finally, I put out the reflective emergency triangle. A third sign I wasn’t going anywhere. Yeah, that did nothing. Only when an officer parked behind me did the message seem to get across… at which point my car decided to just barely work again.
In case anyone needs closure on this story, the problem was worn ignition points. That car no longer has ignition points, and is all the better for it.
Now I get to spend a couple of hours trying to figure out where that top picture of the snowy intersection was taken. It doesn’t appear to be 15-501 at Southern Village. Hmm. This is going to take a while. Beats having to read about emergency flashers.
Found it. Raleigh rd (54 east) at The Exchange at Meadowmont. 20 minutes to find
How on earth did you figure that out? There aren’t any name markers for the streets in that photo that I can see?
Google Street View and living in the area
My opening statement is that yes, a solution that has not yet been thought up, should exist, however, it does not and that leads into everything else I’m about to say.
I think using your hazards to indicate irregular driving or road conditions is a very smart thing to do. I’m not saying 10 under in the slow lane calls for it, but as someone who lives in the tropics where during rain visibility can go from 100 meters to ONE in a matter of seconds, you bet your ass the hazards are coming on.
If you can’t see the road markings clearly, hazards, if you’re doing 40 in a sign posted 100, hazards, if in poor visibility traffic ahead of you is stopped and you’re about to join them, hazards. You, and the situation around you at this time is indeed hazardous.
I’d also like to add HOW MANY people ride their brakes, and then when they need to stop what do they do? Press deeper. What do their brake lights do? Fucking nothing different, and then they get ass ended.
Not every car is fitted with fog lights, so throw that out the window, every single car jas hazard lights, so if you can’t safely navigate the road ahead, hazards should be on so other people know that.
And as far as lane changing goes, people should learn to switch their hazards off before signalling a turn, I also think indicators should be priority over hazards. It’s not like it stops your car from flashing, but it offers significantly more information than hazards.
Also, if you’re behind a car with their hazards on, you should not be driving in a manner that they couldn’t change lanes or exit the road without affecting you. They warned you something was wrong.
It’s also important for my job, as someone who works on cars that have a tendency to enter limp mode. If I can’t keep within a reasonable margin of the posted speed limit, I am a hazard and people need to know that.
I get it might be different in snowy locations where it is also clear out and visibility isnt the problem, but I’m putting my foot down that if your visibility is affected, you absolutely should be signalling that you or others around you are a hazard.
I completely agree with you – especially the cases of driving into a blinding rain/snow/fog situation suddenly, and sudden deceleration. I also agree with Torch that in constant bad visibility the rear fog light is a better solution, but not many cars have them in the US.
But some cars DO have multi-stage brake lights. Both of my BMWs light one set under “normal” braking, and a second set (used as the rear fog light on one side otherwise) under hard braking. Of course the average American is going to have no idea what that means, but maybe 2-3X the brake light output will help some.
What annoys the hell out of me is that from the factory, my generation of BMW (e8x/e9x) has the hardware and software for the rear fog light, but it’s disabled for the NA market. BMW literally spent money to have little tabs that disable that switch in the headlight switch assembly so that it can’t be pushed. 2 minutes with an x-acto knife and you can have an important safety feature enabled in the car. Completely baffling choice from a company that I normally find to be extremely rational in that 20 years ago era. I have wondered if some arcane provision of the FMVSS only allowed fog lights or multi-stage brake lights but not both?
Thank you for the clarification Mr. Torchinsky. I will put my hazard lights on now.
Clearly the lack of driving ed shows in US.
Hazards are supposed to be used if there’s life threathening hazard going on, like the car/traffic is stopped due accident or something like that.
If there’s lack of visibility one can use the rear fog lights. Rule of thumb is that if you cannot see rear lights of the car in front of you, you should use the fogs. It you can see them clearly, you shouldn’t use those either as they are too bright.
You cannot use that which you do not have. While many cars in the US made by EU manufacturers may have the same area for rear fog lights that their global counterparts do, many are just a reflector. There are other that have the bulbs, but the switch in the cabin does not exist or is a ‘dead’ button that requires a modification to get them to work.
My wife in on her 3rd BMW here in the US, and none of them have had the functionality that I know of. I have not checked to see if there are bulbs. My Audi Q7 did have them, but the Q5 did not. My current vehicle, a Lexus RX350, does not. The rear lights in the higher position are all accounted for, and while there are low lumen bulbs in the bumper, the control stalk for the lights has no function for it, and there is no place on the dash that I can see where a switch could be installed. I have replaced those bulbs as they burned out, and they are single output bulbs, so even if I had a switch, I couldn’t make them brighter.
There was never an instance of fog or rain so severe that I ever used the Q7’s rear or front fog lamps. I suppose while snow if falling the could be useful, but I don’t drive in actively falling snow unless absolutely necessary.
While North America doesn’t use rear fog lamps (except on some euro cars, my ’93 Audi had one), I fully agree on the hazards. I’ve used them several times on the highway when traffic was coming to a RAPID stop and I was keen to not get rear-ended.
Why not set the CHMSL as a constant blink for the hazards? That leaves your turn signals and brake lights unburdened and free to continue to do their primary jobs.
Also, while we’re on the subject of the CHMSL: why doesn’t the cyber truck have one?
I agree with the concept, but I dislike both proposals.
I put on the hazards when I’m going slower than the speed limit and there isn’t a car behind me, or if someone in the passing lane is going below the speed limit and I’m behind them trying to pass.
If I’m doing the speed limit I got no reason to have the hazards on.
Seems to propagate, just like the “patience please student driver” stickers i see on half the cars on the road. Oh, you’re learning? Let me use my horn, high beams, and flowery language to educate you about not sitting in the left lane, or not blocking the intersection, or picking ONE OF TWO LANES NOT BOTH!
yes, I’m from Boston…why do you ask?
Flasher ettiequte? Can I, um,….? Never mind
Giggity!