Home » I Drove The New Toyota 4Runner. Here’s How It Compares To The Land Cruiser

I Drove The New Toyota 4Runner. Here’s How It Compares To The Land Cruiser

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When the Toyota 4Runner debuted in April, many Toyota fans were confused. The brand had recently revealed a new Land Cruiser, which, unlike its predecessor (which was built on its own special platform) now shared the “TNGA-F” bones with its stablemates the Tacoma, Sequoia, and Tundra. So when this new 4Runner — which was similar in size, also TNGA-F-based, and powered by the same 2.4-liter engine hooked to an eight-speed transmission — showed up, many thought it seemed too similar to the Land Cruiser. Almost redundant. Well, I just had a chance to drive the 4Runner alongside the Land Cruiser; here’s what I found.

Right away, the answer is yes: There’s plenty of overlap between the two vehicles. Toyota, of course, wants to market the machines to different customers so as to cast as wide a net as possible in hopes of perhaps snagging a Bronco or Wrangler or even Cayenne customer. “4Runner is a North America-focused product for North American taste, so the driving dynamics and styling are very different,” a Toyota representative told me at the 4Runner’s first-drive media event. “One of [the chief engineer’s] top three goals was to make it fun to drive and sporty,” he continued. “Land cruiser is a global vehicle based on global heritage and tastes, from a driving dynamics standpoint.”

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In short, the way Toyota wants the world to see the two vehicles is: 4Runner = aggressive, Land Cruiser = premium — and that means both from a styling/fit and finish standpoint as well as from a vehicle dynamics standpoint.

What Is It?

Toyota’s rep told me the 4Runner is a lot of things, and looking at the trim level breakdown, that’s quite true. Whereas the Land Cruiser comes in only two trims — 1958 and Land Cruiser — the 4Runner is available in nine variants, starting between $42,220 and $68,350:

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  • SR5 ($42,220 for 4×2, $44,220 for 4×4))
  • TRD Sport ($48,700 for 4×2, $50,700 for 4×4)
  • TRD Sport Premium ($54,060 for 4×2, $56,060 for 4×4)
  • TRD Off-Road 4×4 ($50,640)
  • TRD Off-Road Premium 4×4 ($56,420)
  • Limited ($56,850 for 4×2, $58,850 for 4×4)
  • Platinum 4×4 ($64,310)
  • TRD Pro 4×4 ($68,350)
  • Trailhunter 4×4 ($68,350)

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The top three trims come solely with the 2.4-liter hybrid “i-Force Max” powertrain (shown above), which makes 326 horsepower and 465 lb-ft of torque. This is a familiar powertrain to anyone familiar with the Tacoma or Land Cruiser.

While the Limited, TRD Off-Road, and TRD Off-Road Premium all come standard with the regular 278 horsepower, 317 lb-ft 2.4-liter “i-Force” engine (shown below) that are the only available engines in the SR5 and TRD Sport, the three offer the hybrid for an extra $2,800.

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Only the SR5 and non-hybrid Limited offer ($600) third-row seating, and that’s because the hybrid battery under the rear cargo area takes up a lot of space. You can see what I mean on this Trailhunter:

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Here’s a three-row SR5, a trim that doesn’t come with the hybrid powertrain. (Note: The TRD Sport and TRD Off-Road non-hybrids would have space for a third row, but Toyota says historically it’s only offered the third row on Limited and SR5 — based on customer demand and dealer feedback. Personally, I’d like a third row in the TRD Off-Road). You can see how the rear cargo floor is much lower on the non-hybrid:

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As for the actual bones of the 4Runner, it’s all familiar. Here’s the front suspension of the Tacoma: 474501055 897935238892303 5046041520326498010 N

Here’s the Land Cruiser:

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Land Cruiser 5

Land Cruiser 6

And here’s the new 4Runner’s front suspension:

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You’ll notice differences in control arms (some of that varies based on trim level), and there are definitely plenty of geometry differences in the actual links themselves, but the suspension mounting points to the frame (which shares the same pitch/rail width across all vehicles) are the same, and so is the basic design — double-wishbone independent front suspension with coilovers. Ditto with the coil-sprung solid rear axle.

Here’s the Tacoma:

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Here’s the Land Cruiser:

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Land Cruiser 8

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And here’s the 4Runner’s rear suspension:

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As for dimensions, they’re quite similar between the 4Runner and Land Cruiser, which is 194 inches long, 84.2 inches wide, and 73.2 inches tall. The 4Runner is about an inch longer, about the same width, and the height of Limited/TRD Sport/Platinum 4Runner trims is roughly the same as the Land Cruiser. Even ground clearance is about the same between the Land Cruiser and those three 4Runner trims.

Towing capacity – 6,000 pounds — is shared between both vehicles, and combined fuel economy (23 MPG) is the same between hybrid 4Runners and the hybrid-only Land Cruiser. You can see that non-hybrid 4Runners give up one or two combined MPG:

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Anyway, let’s talk about how the 4Runner drove, and then tie that into what the Land Cruiser was like.

What’s It Like To Drive?

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The event started in downtown San Diego, where I hopped into a 4Runner TRD Pro and hit the highway. The interior is pretty much exactly the same as that of the Toyota Tacoma that I drove recently, with a 14-inch touchscreen slapped on the center stack and a 12.3-inch digital gauge cluster. It’s rather chunky, with blocky TOYOTA letters on the dash, a Tonka-Truck-like shift lever, a thick grip on the center tunnel for the passenger, and interior materials that are rather… uh, durable (i.e hard).

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I noticed some less-than perfect trim on the preproduction TRD Pro I was sitting in; here’s some interesting interior fitment near the glovebox:

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The journalist in the driver’s seat was throwing the truck around a bit to test its agility and speed; neither of us were particularly blown away by that, but the ride quality was decent, and it’s a big truck on 33-inch tires so less-than-tight handling is to be expected.

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The big black non-functional hoodscoop shook around a bit at highway speeds just like it does on the Tacoma; I find that big chunk of plastic to be rather silly.

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Speaking of the TRD Pro’s plastic, upon arrival Toyota did a little presentation in front of one, and I couldn’t help but notice how badly that piano black swirls. Just look at this:

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As the owner of a BMW i3S that’s covered in Piano black, I can tell you that it’s annoying seeing those swirls all over your otherwise-nice car. This is not an appropriate material for any vehicle, let alone an off-road machine. For this to be on the top-spec TRD Pro is silly.

The Cheapest 4Runner Is Good

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The first vehicle I drove was the base-model, bargain-basement 4Runner SR5 in two-wheel drive — asking price: about $43,000. I immediately liked it.

On-road, it was my favorite of the 4Runners I would drive later that day, in part because – at 4,455 pounds — the rear-drive SR5 weighs 1,000 pounds less than the TRD Pro. A thousand! At that point, its 278 horsepower, 317 lb-ft 2.4-liter non-hybrid turbo engine made the vehicle feel just as quick as the 326 horsepower, 465 lb-ft TRD Pro. Honestly, maybe a bit quicker. And overall, the car felt smaller, lower, nimbler and just more pleasant to drive.

The 2.4-liter turbochared inline-four is a little buzzy, and not particularly interesting in any way, but it’s powerful enough, and the eight-speed automatic snaps off shifts crisply and with no drama. It’s a decent powertrain and drivetrain, but unremarkable like that of many 4Runners that came before.

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The inside of the SR5 makes do with an eight-inch screen, which was big enough, and if I’m honest felt a bit less “tacked on” than the 14-incher found in the higher trims. The light cloth seats both looked great and felt great.

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Getting Into The Third Row

The optional third-row was interesting. I’d never experienced the “jump seats” of the outgoing 4Runner, but these are similar. Because the articulation of the solid rear axle requires a rather tall rear frame “kick” and thus rear floor, the seats stand only a few inches high, and “slip” down and backwards when folded.

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Entry via the second row is a little challenging due to the rear wheel arch, but — with the second row folded by simply pulling a lever — it wasn’t too bad.

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Here’s the third-row folded flat:

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You can use either this handle….4runner 5881

… or this strap to release the seatback and raise it:

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You’ll then see the seat cushion slotted down below:

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You reach through this strange rubber-ish barrier to pull the seat up:

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Then boom: You’ve got a jumpseat:

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Lifting the headrest and having a seat, I found that, at five-foot eight-inches, my legroom was a bit tight. Not bad for a short trip, but definitely pushing it: 4runner 5876

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The biggest issue was the headroom, which was rough for an adult; my balding noggin hit the headliner. This rear seat would be totally usable for small children, but probably not teens.

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The 4Runner Trailhunter Is Legitimate

From the base SR5 I jumped into a pair of Trailhunters. That’s the “overlanding” version of the 4Runner (the other top-dog off-road trim, the TRD Pro, is more “rally” oriented). At $68,350, the Trailhunter is expensive, but it is formidable off-road, offering lots of underbody protection, a sway bar disconnect for added front axle articulation, meaty 33-inch tires, a rear locker, and a snorkel. Plus, it’s pretty well decked out on the inside, too:

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The off-road trail was absurdly easy for the Trailhunter. The sway bar disconnect didn’t yield impressive front axle articulation due to the nature of the independent front suspension, but that coil-sprung five-link rear axle flexed nicely, and crawling through uneven terrain was smooth and easy, especially thanks to that front-facing camera.

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The hood, with its nice low-spot in the center, was pleasant to look over and made navigating the trail a breeze, and if I’d somehow still missed my line on one of the small rock gardens, I’d have been well protected by underbody skidplates on the front end, fuel tank, and transfer case:

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With 10.1-inches of ground clearance, a rear locker, and a disconnecting front sway bar, the Toyota 4Runner Trailhunter may seem like a hard-core off-roader, but it’s got a big belly and a large arse — the resulting 24-degree breakover and departure angle aren’t amazing. They’re decent, but not anywhere near on the same level as, say, a Ford Bronco or Jeep Wrangler.

The TRD Pro “Rally” SUV Is Fun At High Speeds

I had a chance to drive the TRD Pro around a high-speed dirt track. P1030239

The truck, thanks in part to “3-way adjustable Fox 2.5-in internal bypass Q3S shocks with rear piggy-back remote reservoirs” floated over everything nicely.

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Toyota even took the 4Runner TRD Pro on a jump. I gotta hand it to Toyota; this is no joke:

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Still, I’m not a huge fan of the TRD Pro trim; the piano-black exterior cladding bothers me, and the big fake plastic bulge that shakes around is also annoying:

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Plus, the underbody protection, shown below, isn’t quite as thorough as it is on the Trailhunter, a vehicle that, it’s worth noting, isn’t exactly terrible on higher-speed desert terrain (it has “Old Man Emu® 2.5-in forged shocks with rear piggyback remote reservoirs”).

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But as much as I liked the Trailhunter and at least appreciated the TRD Pro, after driving most of the 4Runner variants I found myself reaching a conclusion that seemed rather familiar.

The Trailhunter is legitimately good off-road thanks to its locker, sway bar disconnect, big tires, decent geometry, and thorough skidplating. But it’s pricy and maybe a little on the gaudy side with that snorkel. The TRD Pro is similarly capable off-road, but tacky, not as well protected underneath, and also rather overpriced. The TRD Off-Road seems like the Goldilocks trim.

The TRD Off-Road Is The Goldilocks Trim

I reached this conclusion — the exact same one I reached after I drove all the Tacoma trims — after setting foot in a pair of TRD Off-Road models. It’s this trim — my favorite one — that I will compare with the Land Cruiser in a moment.

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The TRD Off-Road model starts at $50,640, while the TRD Off-Road Premium costs $56,420. Compared with, say, a Ford Bronco four-door or a Jeep Wrangler four-door, that’s about $10 grand more. But 4Runners have always cost more than Jeeps and Broncos, and people still buy them. A lot of this has to do with brand reputation, some has to do with refinement — we don’t need to go into that now; what matters is that the TRD Off-Road seems like the best 4Runner there is per dollar.

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I first hopped into the TRD Off-Road Premium hybrid you see above and below. That’s an over $60,870 machine. It’s got a nice faux-leather interior, the big screen, a front-facing camera, and a moonroof (in addition to the standard TRD Off-Road stuff like the 33-inch tires and rear locker).

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I didn’t do any crazy off-roading with the 4Runner TRD Off-Road, but it was clear to me that it offers plenty of capability for even the avid off-road enthusiast. There’s great forward visibility, especially with the optional Camera (standard on the TRD Off-Road Premium); the 9.1 inches of ground clearance is plentiful; and those generic-looking matte-black fender flares? Nice and boring (i.e. functional), just how I like them: 4runner 5950

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There’s no sway bar disconnect in the 4Runner TRD Off-Road, but that’s fine given how little flex the front suspension has anyway, and though underbody protection leaves something to be desired (I’m fairly sure the front skidplate is composite, and there’s nothing protecting the transmission — the fuel tank and transfer case have a bit of sheet metal protection, though), that can be fixed in the aftermarket:

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I then jumped into a completely optionless base-model, non-hybrid TRD Off-Road — the $50,640 vehicle, and immediately I knew I’d found my favorite of them all:

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The optionless TRD Off-Road 4Runner is nothing special inside or out, really. It’s functional. It’s got nice cloth seats, a rear locker, some decent 33-inch tires, a little bit of underbody protection (as shown before), a gasoline 2.4-liter turbocharged motor hooked to an eight-speed automatic, and a low-range transfer case — it’s everything I need and not a bit more.

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OK, I do wish it came with a front-facing camera (especially for off-roading, especially a modern car with a tall hood), and I would definitely ditch the running boards on the car I drove, but otherwise it seems like the best bang-for-your-buck 4Runner, and at 4,850 pounds it’s also over 600 pounds lighter than the Trailhunter or TRD Pro.

That helps make the power deficit from not having the hybrid motor less obvious; that weight, along with the added cargo space and the fact that the delta in fuel economy would take a decade to pay back, has me thinking that skipping the hybrid is the move. Of course, I’ll solidify that recommendation when I have a better idea of real-world fuel economy and reliability, but based on the info I have now, I’d skip the i-Force Max.

Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road Vs Toyota Land Cruiser

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OK, so why would you buy a Land Cruiser?

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Well, let’s take a look at pricing. The 4Runner I showed just above costs $50,640, which is nearly seven grand cheaper than the base $57,400 Land Cruiser. Yes, the base Land Cruiser gets the bigger infotainment screen, a hybrid powertrain, and a full-time four-wheel drive system with locking Torsen LSD for the center differential, whereas the 4Runner makes do with a smaller screen, a part-time four-wheel drive system, and a less powerful gasoline powertrain.

But the base “1958” Land Cruiser’s interior quality is really not much better than the 4Runner’s (you have to step up a trim level in the Land Cruiser before the door and dash plastics stop becoming hard), and like I said before: I don’t think the hybrid powertrain is worth the loss in interior volume or the price jump in the 4Runner.

As for interior styling, here’s the base Land Cruiser:

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Here’s the base 4Runner TRD Off-Road:

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Another angle of the Land Cruiser:

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Again the 4Runner TRD Off-Road:

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Land Cruiser 1958:

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Base 4Runner TRD Off-Road:

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I’d give the edge to the Land Cruiser on interior design elegance. What about the outside?

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Image: Toyota

I’d probably give the edge to the Land Cruiser again. I think the roofline is more squared off and the nose looks less “squished” than the 4Runner.

What about off-road capability (see my Land Cruiser off-road test here)? Well, the two SUVs are quite evenly matched. They both come standard with a rear locker (the Land Cruiser has a locking center diff, which the 4Runner doesn’t need since the front and rear driveshafts are locked anytime it’s in four-wheel drive), they both have some basic underbody skidplating, and both come with Toyo all-terrain tires.

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But the tires aren’t the same size; the Land Cruiser has 245/70R18 tires while the 4Runner ‘s 265/70R18 all-terrains are about an inch larger in diameter. This helps explain the 4Runner’s 9.1-inches of ground clearance compared to the Land Cruiser’s 8.7.

But off-road capability isn’t just about ground clearance; yes, the most important element in a vehicle’s off-road capability is geometry, but that also includes overhangs, and on that front, the Land Cruiser offers an approach angle of 30 degrees, a departure angle of 22 degrees, and a breakover angle of 25 degrees. The 4Runner TRD Off-Road’s approach angle is 19 degrees, the departure angle is 24 degrees, and the breakover angle is 24 degrees.

Normally, if a vehicle has an 11 degree advantage in approach angle (the most important of the three angles, since once can use momentum to overcome deficits in the other areas), it’s almost always the better off-roader, but in this case, that’s not necessarily true. First, the Land Cruiser’s 22-degree departure angle really limits that 11-degree approach angle advantage, anyway. And second: I don’t actually believe that the 4Runner TRD Off-Road vehicles that I drove had the 19-degree approach angle that Toyota claims. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Have a look at this base-model SR5, which has smaller tires than the TRD Off-Road and a rather hideous chin spoiler:

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The SR5’s approach angle is, per Toyota, 18 degrees. If you look at the image above, you’ll see that just removing that chin spoiler clearly adds more than a single degree to the approach angle. The TRD Off-Roads at the press event did not have that spoiler and they had larger tires, so how could they have 19-degree approach angles?

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This is a bit strange, since Toyota’s TRD Off-Roads do have this spoiler on the online configurator:

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Image: Toyota

It’s possible Toyota took the spoilers off the TRD Off-Road models; if that’s the case, I’d probably do the same, because that would probably jack the 4Runner TRD Off-Road’s approach angle up to around 30 degrees given that the Trailhunter/TRD Pro have 33-degree faces.

In any case, based on my experience driving the Land Cruiser 1958 and 4Runner TRD Off-Road, they really do feel similarly capable off-road. So that’s a bit of a wash, the styling goes in favor of the Land Cruiser (in my eyes), and pricing is clearly in favor of the 4Runner. But what about interior volume and driving dynamics?

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Cargo-volume wise, the two hybrids are basically a match, with the 4Runner TRD Off-Road offering 82.6 cubic feet behind the front row and 42.6 cubic feet behind the second row. The Land Cruiser offers just 0.5 cubic feet less behind the front row at 82.1 and actually more space behind the second row at 46.2 cubic feet. The non-hybrid 4Runner blows them both out of the water with 90.2 cubic feet with the second row folded flat and 48.4 behind the second row.

As for on-road driving dynamics, I did get the impression that maybe the Land Cruiser rides a little softer/cushier, and the 4Runner was a bit firmer, but neither was a sports car in the curves, both had plenty of body roll and brake dive, and neither was quick. They were adequate on-road, decent off-road, and hopefully even better in the dealership service center because that’s a key reason why people pay the Toyota Tax. We’ll find that out in due time.

My Verdict

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I think there’s a temptation to criticize Toyota for offering two models that are so similar architecturally and so alike in terms of capability. I get it — the old Land Cruiser was something truly special, and this Land Cruiser feels unremarkable — but if we’re being honest, that old Land Cruiser had become an overpriced luxo-yacht, and choice is a beautiful thing. We’ve now got a choice between two body-on-frame off-road Toyota mid-size SUVs — that’s awesome.

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No, the 2.4-liter turbocharged inline-four isn’t going to blow you away; it’s OK just as it is in the Tacoma and just as many 4Runner/Tacoma engines were in the past — rather forgettable. The eight-speed automatic does a good job getting the most out of that mill, and hopefully real-world fuel economy and reliability will significantly exceed that of the outgoing models. The independent front suspension and solid axle are fairly typical and work well off-road and on, and the interiors are modernized but modest. This is all to say: The new Tacoma and 4Runner are worthy successors, and you can think of the Land Cruiser as a sort of 4Runner-alternative that fits right in the middle of the trim-lineup.

It’s not as hard-core off-road as the 4Runner TRD Pro or Trailhunter, and it’s significantly better off-road than the SR5 or the Limited/TRD Sport. It’s roughly as capable as the 4Runner TRD Off-Road, but it comes standard with the hybrid powertrain (which means it has significantly less cargo volume than the non-hybrid TRD Off-Road), it looks handsomer (in my opinion) both inside and out, and maybe it rides a tiny bit softer.

So if you don’t care about off-roading and you want something cheap and/with three rows, maybe a base 4Runner SR5 is the move. If you want something that can off-road reasonably well but doesn’t cost over about $51,000, buy the 4Runner TRD Off-Road. If you want a harder-core off-roader and money is no object, buy a 4Runner Trailhunter or TRD Pro. If you want the most luxurious reasonably capable off-roader from Toyota, buy the Land Cruiser. (If you need more luxury, get the Lexus GX). And if you just want something that’s decent off-road but you really care more about looks extremely cool, then in my opinion the answer is the base Land Cruiser.

If it were up to me between the two vehicles, my brain would choose the non-hybrid 4Runner TRD Off-Road over the Land Cruiser because I want the interior volume, I don’t care about the hybrid powertrain, I’m cool with the smaller screen, and I really want to save $7000. My heart, though? It might just take the non-base-model Land Cruiser to get a vehicle with decent off-road capability and a nicer-quality interior than any 4Runner. Because if you’re already dropping $50 big ones on an SUV, you want to sit somewhere nice, don’t you? Or maybe I’ve gone soft.

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John Beef
John Beef
1 month ago

Word on the street was Toyota was going all hybrid for all vehicles, so it’s a surprise and a disappointment to see gas-only models. I love everything about my ’18 4Runner except the fuel economy.

JP15
JP15
1 month ago
Reply to  John Beef

In the 4Runner, the non-hybrid and hybrid are within 1mpg of each other. The real advantage of the hybrid in this application is the extra torque, not fuel economy.

Klone121
Klone121
1 month ago
Reply to  JP15

I guess performance wise sure. The tow rating is the same 6000 lbs. I’d be curious to see once the actual numbers come out how different they are 0-60mph. The weight factor of 600lbs. on the hybrid is not nothing.

StillPlaysWithCars
StillPlaysWithCars
1 month ago
Reply to  John Beef

Eh, my 2024 returns 20+ on the highway. It’s certainly not great but coming from my Xterra at 16 I’m happy.

John Beef
John Beef
1 month ago

Yeah, I got 18 when it was new, but after putting on all terrain tires it dipped to 16.

James Wallace
James Wallace
1 month ago

Has there been any vehicle that actually needed or used a functional “Hood Scoop” from the factory in, let’s say the last decade? It so reminds me of an ancient VW ad where a guy in a lab coat is pointing out chromed plated trim holes in the hood of an old car. He said, “By next year, all cars will have… Holes in the Hood.” Toyota is a big fan of fake scoops and vents all over their cars, look at the recent Camry.

I worked for the UN for about a decade. We seemed to have an endless supply of high trim Land Cruisers. All that trim usually broke off within the first 6 months. In particular almost every plastic bit on the bumpers and any stupid useless thing they lightly attached to the dash. All that was usually left was the craters from the attachments. Don’t get me started about their transmissions. I had 4 blow on me, all in low range 3rd gear. The best thing about the Land Cruiser was it was free to me.

10001010
10001010
1 month ago
Reply to  James Wallace

The WRX scoop is still functional as it cools the top mount intercooler. Whether it’s needed… Well the turbo Foresters and Outbacks get by without it but I’ve got to think the scooped air is more effective.

Shinynugget
Shinynugget
1 month ago
Reply to  10001010

More effective at looking cool! At least in my new-to-me WRX!

10001010
10001010
1 month ago
Reply to  Shinynugget

They def look cool, I miss my WRX hatch pretty regularly for that and so many other reasons.

Shinynugget
Shinynugget
1 month ago
Reply to  10001010

This is my first and I love it.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
1 month ago
Reply to  James Wallace

Many vehicles have been produced with functional hood scoops. To add to the ones others have listed, the LML Duramax trucks have a functional hood scoop.

Charlie
Charlie
1 month ago

We’ve owned three generations of 4Runners and we were waiting on the latest to start selling so we could test drive and see if they fixed the front seat positioning for our aging backs. Apparently they fixed it in the Tacoma and we’re hoping its the same in this.
The price tag to get the options we want now though is a barrier. The question is can we wait a couple years for the used market to bring them closer to reality or will we be succumbing to our age and moving on to something a little more posh.
Reality is for the most part its a grocery getter so its getting harder hang on to the outdoorsy type identity we are in our hearts and minds via our transportation.
C’est la vie

John Beef
John Beef
1 month ago
Reply to  Charlie

I ended up buying a new 4Runner in 2018 because the used market offered no additional value. One dealer’s website had Toyota Certified used models and new models for the same prices. The only ones that were cheaper were at least 5 years old pushing 100K miles, and even then, saved maybe $10k tops over a new one. Given the continued popularity, this trend will probably continue.

StillPlaysWithCars
StillPlaysWithCars
1 month ago
Reply to  John Beef

I agree. I’ve long said that if you’re going to buy a Toyota, buy it new and keep it forever. The used market for Toyota’s makes zero sense.

Matthew Strachan
Matthew Strachan
1 month ago

It all looks so cheaply made. Which would be fine if it was cheap, or interesting.

MrLM002
MrLM002
1 month ago

The big black non-functional hoodscoop shook around a bit at highway speeds just like it does on the Tacoma; I find that big chunk of plastic to be rather silly.

I wish automakers wouldn’t do shit like this to cars.

I don’t get these new Toyota hybrids in the slightest. They use turbocharged direct injection gas engines hooked up to automatic transmissions with a hybrid system hodge podged in, that only result in noticeable MPG improvements at the fleet level, the average person IF they see an MPG improvement over the under stressed outgoing NA engines it will be negligible.

With the long term reliability and durability concerns related to these engines even if they doubled the MPG I wouldn’t be interested in them. Toyota’s traditional hybrid system with naturally aspirated atkinson cycle engines and planetary e-CVTs actually double the MPG while increasing simplicity and durability over their ICE only automatic transmission and or regular CVT offerings.

RallyMech
RallyMech
1 month ago
Reply to  MrLM002

Fleet mileage is exactly why. The rating system for Turbo engines rarely matches real world, and most auto manufacturers are taking advantage of it to save money on fleet credits. Long term reliability dropping like a rock after 100k miles is a feature for an automaker, not a bug.

Andy Farrell
Andy Farrell
1 month ago
Reply to  RallyMech

Remember, too, that hybrids are also about emissions, not just MPGs.

RallyMech
RallyMech
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy Farrell

From the automaker’s POV, not at all. It’s making money (selling cars) and complying with regulations. The only emissions that really matter is the EPA test cycle criteria, as long as you don’t blatantly cheat the test of course.

IRegertNothing, Esq.
IRegertNothing, Esq.
1 month ago
Reply to  RallyMech

“The only emissions that really matter is the EPA test cycle criteria, as long as you don’t blatantly cheat the test of course.”

(VW engineer quietly backs out of the room)

RallyMech
RallyMech
1 month ago

Yep. That’s also why you don’t take much a mileage hit when you disable whatever form of cylinder deactivation (DoD/AFM/etc). It mainly games the test, and doesn’t really do much in real world driving.

Electric Truckaloo (formerly Stig’s Chamorro Cousin)
Electric Truckaloo (formerly Stig’s Chamorro Cousin)
1 month ago

Toyota should be a case study in price ratcheting – a TRD Pro 4Runner was shy of $50k just 5 years ago. It is now pushing $70k, if you get one at MSRP.

It’s an admittedly better rig by most measures, but a 40% bump in that short period of time and somehow being normalized is just mind-boggling.

Mattio
Mattio
1 month ago

As the owner of a 2020 TRD pro, it honestly wasn’t good value when I paid $45k for it. I replaced the Pro fox shocks with something that could be tuned to the weight my mods added to the front end, so it ended up being an overpriced appearance package.

If you like to mod your truck and want it to last, get a base SR5 and go to town.

Electric Truckaloo (formerly Stig’s Chamorro Cousin)
Electric Truckaloo (formerly Stig’s Chamorro Cousin)
1 month ago
Reply to  Mattio

I bought my ’19 Tundra TRD Pro – arguably the most overpriced truck in the market at that time, because it was just cool paint (VOODOO BLUE for the win) with nice shocks and a decent exhaust, plus leather – for $51k in 2018, and sold it in 2022 for … $50k.

You’re 100% right – get an SR5 and go nuts.

Klone121
Klone121
1 month ago
Reply to  Mattio

Counterpoint- go with the SR5 premium with a TRD appearance package (mine came with TRD rims, black out logos, and TRD skid plate) so it looks like a TRD without the expensive shocks, sway bar disconnect, etc. The base SR5 also has a worse sound system, no heated seats, and a few other things that are not so easy to install aftermarket.

Electric Truckaloo (formerly Stig’s Chamorro Cousin)
Electric Truckaloo (formerly Stig’s Chamorro Cousin)
1 month ago
Reply to  Klone121

My ’19 didn’t have heated seats. It was archaic. I loved it for what it was, but was deeply annoyed by the cheapness.

The newer builds have modern features in them, but the ’19 was a 25 year old truck at modern prices. Sounded great, though.

Mattio
Mattio
1 month ago
Reply to  Klone121

I agree that’s a good option for a comfortable, reasonably priced, truck. In avoiding some of the electronics I was thinking long term reliability but, depending on where you live, a warm butt may be a better call.

Klone121
Klone121
1 month ago
Reply to  Mattio

Same suspension as the SR5 the only changes are interior which IMO is a big step up especially the sound system.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
1 month ago
Reply to  Klone121

I was disappointed to see, despite the number of trims, they dropped the SR5 Premium trim in this gen. Maybe it’ll come back once the dust settles from the launch.

Klone121
Klone121
26 days ago

I’m in the same camp. I don’t need or want any of the suspension upgrades or the hybrid engine of the higher trims. I want the ease of maintenance costs of the SR5 with all the interior niceties of the premium.

Detroit Lightning
Detroit Lightning
1 month ago

the plastic, non-functional, hood scoop is so silly.

Recently bought a base SR Tacoma w/ a manual…while I really like the styling of the LC, and off-road + higher trim levels surely offer more capability and features…I’m feeling pretty good about having saved some $ and having a manual.

Cheap Bastard
Cheap Bastard
1 month ago

“OK, so why would you buy a Land Cruiser?”

Because angry face, agressive styling is for insecure incels.

TXJeepGuy
TXJeepGuy
1 month ago

Great write up David. I’m in agreement- I don’t see 18,000 reasons to walk up to a Trailhunter vs a base TRD Off Road. Though 50k and still having cloth seats is hard for me to comprehend.

StillPlaysWithCars
StillPlaysWithCars
1 month ago
Reply to  TXJeepGuy

Especially when the outgoing Off-road premium could be had for sub $50k.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
1 month ago

Who greenlit piano black fender flares? That is an incredibly poor decision.

Spectre6000
Spectre6000
1 month ago

The locking center diff (by which I mean the inverse: an open center diff, though it would be better if the lock was selectable) is VERY nice to have if you have to deal with snow and curvy roads like in a mountain setting. That’s enough to push me firmly toward the LC.

Last edited 1 month ago by Spectre6000
Jeff Elliott
Jeff Elliott
1 month ago

Amazing review btw. Pricing, experiences at different levels plus the comparison to the Land Cruiser, all done by an experienced off roader?! This is top tier stuff.

Is that blue color as close the Xterra color as it looks, or is my memory lagging?

Waremon0
Waremon0
1 month ago
Reply to  David Tracy

Nissan was using frame sharing before it was cool. I’d imagine they’d be in a much better place now if they had just kept the Xterra on the road unchanged for 15 years like Toyota.

Dan Bee
Dan Bee
1 month ago
Reply to  Jeff Elliott

FWIW, a car podcaster recently claimed that from the time Nissan stopped making the Xterra, Toyota sold ~1.1M 4Runners all on the same platform. So much profit.

John in Ohio
John in Ohio
1 month ago

It’s super strange for me with these new SUVs/Trucks from Toyota. I have been really excited to see what they’d do with them all. It’s very strange to see them put crap materials in them like a GM or Stellantis vehicle. Some of the shots of the 4Runner in this piece look like a fisher price toy. Then that awful choice of piano black outside trim. This carries over into the Tacoma. The weird packaging of the Sequoia interior where it has horrendous storage space when it’s a monster boat of a vehicle. Though I think that thing looks really, really good outside of that. I’ve been generally impressed with the Tundra outside of their manufacturing issues with the engine. The biggest oddity is that it really seems like every hybrid option in all of these things just aren’t worth it. They take up storage space, the mileage is awful in them, and they don’t offer that much of a power increase. I keep reading how the mpg in the Tundra with the hybrid is atrocious. Add all of this in addition to some bad pricing. Just a lot of weird stuff coming out of Toyota and hopefully things improve. Maybe they took on too much change at once? I hope they figure out the Tundra issues because I would like to get one of them at some point. As for the rest, I don’t dislike them but the overwhelming thing I feel is just meh.

Last edited 1 month ago by John in Ohio
Speedway Sammy
Speedway Sammy
1 month ago
Reply to  John in Ohio

I have the perception that both Toyota and Honda are hiring too many MBA types and letting them have too much influence. Getting away from their roots as engineering based companies.

John in Ohio
John in Ohio
1 month ago
Reply to  Speedway Sammy

Yeah, it’s coming across as MBA cost cutting while keeping pricing inflated.

Robot Turds
Robot Turds
1 month ago
Reply to  Speedway Sammy

If we’re serious the interiors of Toyotas have not been that great in a long time.

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago
Reply to  Robot Turds

I have a 13 4Runner. I don’t find the interior all that attractive, but it’s laid out fairly well. Lots of hard plastics of different textures, it looks like that hasn’t changed. I will say that while the materials fee cheap in mine, they are screwed together very well. Mine is at 187K miles and doesn’t have any interior creaks or rattles.

There’s nothing compelling about the new one that would tempt me to want to switch.

Reasonable Pushrod
Reasonable Pushrod
1 month ago
Reply to  John in Ohio

Maybe it’s just me, but I’ve almost always been unimpressed with the materials Toyota uses. I would however expect better fit/finish than in these pictures.

Anoos
Anoos
1 month ago

Are these engines going to hurt sales among the crowds who usually buy these?

I have two co-workers looking to replace a Tundra (2020) and a 4 Runner (2022). Both have been following the news on the development of these vehicles and neither want a turbo 4 or a hybrid drivetrain.

The Tundra driver is planning to just keep the Tundra, hoping Toyota relents and brings back a V8 (which may be cheaper than the multiple engine replacements some owners have experienced with the new Tundra).

The 4 Runner owner is looking at Suburbans.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
1 month ago
Reply to  Anoos

Seems like Honda is itching to pounce with the new Passport at least for those that don’t need the full scope of BOF capabilities a 4Runner offers. I see posts on Reddit and forums where a number of people are comparing the two redesigns.

Anoos
Anoos
1 month ago

Both vehicles are used off-road, but generally logging roads not rock-crawling.

The 4 Runner is used (maybe monthly) to tow a relatively heavy trailer, including towing off-road.

I’m pretty sure my Outback or Forester on all-season tires could get to all the places the Tundra will go, but buyers don’t necessarily buy the car they need.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
1 month ago
Reply to  Anoos

Right, I don’t know which would be more of an advantage in that case, the NA V6 or BOF. I hope DT does an analysis of a Trailsport to see how it stacks up. Not that I need the capability myself but just to see if it backs up the claims Honda makes.

Klone121
Klone121
1 month ago

The NA V6 in the Passport is definitely more appealing to me than the box of snakes 2.4T that sounds like marbles in a blender. That being said I’m sure the 4R has a better towing capacity and having a unibody truck is a deal breaker for a lot of people. Now if Honda made a BOF with the NA V6…

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago

For what most 4Runner owners use them for, I 100% think the new Passport is a better choice.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike B

There was one comment that I thought summed it up really well: “if you have to ask, go with the Passport.”

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago
Reply to  Anoos

I think the serious enthusiasts are turned off, but eventually they won’t have a choice, OR they’ll see new builds running 35 – 37″ tires and finally give in to FOMO.

I think the majority of prospective 6th gen buyers won’t care, or even know, what’s under the hood. They just want the new 4Runner. Most 4Runners I see in my travels are completely stock, with a good number of them driven by women. Not to generalize, because I DO know women who offroad or are auto enthusiasts, but generally they’re not too concerned with powertrains.

I also feel like a lot of actual Toyota enthusiasts still don’t really know all that much about vehicles. On a recent trail run I had to show a guy in a modded Tacoma TRD how to engage 4WD.

Anoos
Anoos
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike B

I feel like more than half of the 4 Runners I see around here are visibly modified (skid plates, roof baskets, etc). I’m not sure how many of them actually make use of their off-roady gear, but they have it.

Dumb Shadetree
Dumb Shadetree
1 month ago

First, I always pronounce TRD as “turd” in my head, even though I like Toyota. Second, if that piano black matches what’s used on some of Toyota’s other up-trim vehicles, then someone did an atrociously bad job cleaning the car before showing it. It’s clean and has a slightly blue glitter that pops more when you wax it.

Anoos
Anoos
1 month ago
Reply to  Dumb Shadetree

The sacrificial plastic fender trims on an off-road vehicle shouldn’t require waxing.

Dumb Shadetree
Dumb Shadetree
1 month ago
Reply to  Anoos

I agree, but if you’re actually taking it offroad you shouldn’t care whether they have spidering underneath the scratches and layers of mud.

Jeff Elliott
Jeff Elliott
1 month ago

A $70,000 4runner with a fake plastic hood scoop is making me unreasonably upset.

Question for people that have been in modern 4runners – is the leg room in the backseats (not third row) as bad as it looks?

I’m 6’4 and my now adult kids are just over and just under 6′ and we fit just fine in my GTI, plus there is plenty of headroom.

GreatFallsGreen
GreatFallsGreen
1 month ago
Reply to  Jeff Elliott

I’m also just under 6′ and though it’s been a minute since I’ve been in one (and we have owners that will chime in), if memory serves, it’s a more upright, chairlike position in back and was comfortable spacewise. Dimensionally the legroom metric isn’t great, but the outgoing 4Runner skipped the on-the-floor seating position that past 4Runners had and the Tacoma held on to for so long so that helped.

Mike B
Mike B
1 month ago
Reply to  Jeff Elliott

I have a 5th gen and the rear legroom is pretty good. Much better than my Volvo XC70.

I rarely have anyone other than my dog in the backseat, but there’s a decent amount of space between the seat bottom and back of the front seats for gear on the floor.

At your height you may have an issue with headroom though.

Jeff Elliott
Jeff Elliott
1 month ago
Reply to  Mike B

I had headroom issues in my 2000 Cherokee due to the uprights seating position, thanks for the feedback!

4jim
4jim
1 month ago

I’ve been playing in the building price of both of these. yes they are expensive but they don’t seem too bad compared to equivalently equipped for some off-road/overlanding as a bronco or wrangler. I know a lot of people that off-road these they’re not all mall crawlers, people. I didn’t realize the hybrid only gave a mile or two per gallon more

Icouldntfindaclevername
Icouldntfindaclevername
1 month ago

Nice mall crawlers, but too expensive mall crawlers

StillNotATony
StillNotATony
1 month ago

The TRD Pro Off-Road Premium is $61k, and it has FAKE leather?!? BOOOO!!!

Parsko
Parsko
1 month ago

9 models with a $22k difference between them all, and you picked the cheap one. I probably would have too. Are all those features worth $22k?

Doughnaut
Doughnaut
1 month ago
Reply to  Parsko

You can get a base 4Runner and a base R1300GS, or you could get a top of the line 4Runner. Yeah, I’m getting the twofer.

Ash78
Ash78
1 month ago
Reply to  Parsko

So only a 50% differential from bottom to top…not bad. A lot of cars push close to 100%, especially the ones with ridiculous amounts of options (*cough*Parsh). All things considered, $22k/50% isn’t out of the norm by modern standards at all. I still think the 4R is the second most overpriced vehicle for sale in the past 2 decades, only behind Wrangler.

Last edited 1 month ago by Ash78
Doughnaut
Doughnaut
1 month ago
Reply to  Ash78

It’s more than that. The base model is $42,220; the top of the line is $68,350. That gives a difference of $26,130, or ~62% of the base price.

Kalieaire
Kalieaire
1 month ago
Reply to  Parsko

it depends, is 22k worth the following?

  • hybrid gets me the 2400w inverter over the 400w.
  • i can use the hybrid powerplant to keep the interior warm (or cool) since it uses a heat pump (though nobody knows how well this will work in some place actually cold like the Yukon around Inuvik or Tuktoyaktuk, a gasoline webasto coolant or airtop heater might be better).
  • no heated or ventilated seats in the SR5
  • no qi (i could live w/ that since it’s not as good as a magsafe charger)
  • no digital key (i don’t use connected services)
  • no hands free powergate (i’m ok with this, but i actually really liked this before i got rid of my venza)
  • no sunroof (i don’t actually like these esp since ill have an eezi awn k9 rack on top
  • i get 17 wheels (Yay) instead of 18s and 20s (double yay)
  • no heated and telescopic steering wheel (telescopic is nice, but not having heated steering wheel sucks, this is a base 1958 option for the LC250)
  • 360 camera is really nice when parking or backing up
  • no rear locking diff (will need to get an arb air locker later)
  • no swaybar disconnect (would be nice to have)
Parsko
Parsko
1 month ago
Reply to  Kalieaire

Not IMHO. Maybe $10k?

Michael Beranek
Michael Beranek
1 month ago

Seems like the difference between a Biscayne and a Bel Air. It also seems like there are both models because there have to be because marketing says so.

Ramaswamy Narayanaswamy
Ramaswamy Narayanaswamy
1 month ago

Now the engine bay…..well sorry to say I will be hesitant to own one.

If I were forced, I will get the 1GR.

Jim Zavist
Jim Zavist
1 month ago

All engine bays look like that, these days, once you remove the decorative cover . . .

Ramaswamy Narayanaswamy
Ramaswamy Narayanaswamy
1 month ago
Reply to  Jim Zavist

Not every single one. This and the Ford engines look atrocious to look at (others as well, but Toyota doing this is surprising). A cover will not do anything to hide any under the hood…..especially such a mess of wires.

Now, location of oil filter, dipstick, all the next fun starts….

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
1 month ago

I really like the way these look.

Ash78
Ash78
1 month ago

Yeah, if I had to choose among several kindergartners’ drawings of “What is A Car?” this is 10x better than the Cybertruck. That kid needs to be…evaluated. 🙂

I like the elegant simplicity. I do not, however, like the price tag. But I’ve said that every year since the third-gen 4Runner, I think.

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
1 month ago
Reply to  Ash78

They are expensive, and honestly I’d have a hard time picking one over a Bronco with how heavily they’re discounting them right now. You can get into a nicely equipped one for about the same price as a base AWD 4Runner…people will say “but the Toyota reliability!” but unfortunately Toyota’s new turbocharged stuff has been having serious teething issues, so I’m not sure if I trust the engines in this any more than any other turbo 4 pots.

Doughnaut
Doughnaut
1 month ago

Plus, outside of leaky roofs on super early production Broncos, have they been suffering from any reliability or quality issues?

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
1 month ago
Reply to  Doughnaut

The turbo V6 has had a lot of issues, but that 2.3 liter is pretty battle tested at this point. I certainly wouldn’t say it’s anywhere near as reliable as a bigger NA engine but there are Mustangs and trucks with it that have six figure mileage all over the place. I’m sure if you do all your preventative maintenance it’ll treat you just fine…and I actually had fun with it when I had an Ecostang as a rental. It’s plenty powerful.

Doughnaut
Doughnaut
1 month ago

I thought the Bronco’s V6 had been sorted before it ended up in the Bronco…

Nsane In The MembraNe
Nsane In The MembraNe
1 month ago
Reply to  Doughnaut

Nope, it had a bunch of recalls. There’s a chance that’s all resolved by now though, I haven’t checked to see.

Harvey Firebirdman
Harvey Firebirdman
1 month ago

I really like both of these need 4runners and Land Cruisers but I cannot see spending 50k+ for something I would destroy off road. I have said on here before I debated about selling my FJ Cruiser for one of these but it is crazy to think a trail trams FJ (mine is a 2013) was under 30k you want a equivalent 4Runner today you are paying 50k+ for a TRD trim that would be similar is ridiculous. And the base model 4×2 starts at 42k? That is nuts. Well maybe I’ll be a future owner when they are used (doubt it though since you will have people/dealers selling used ones with 60k miles for a whole 5k less then brand new ones) /end rant haha

Ash78
Ash78
1 month ago

Just gonna get this out of the way up top (er…bottom):

PamBeasleySameCar.gif

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