This may come as a surprise to many of you who have for years been reading about my many old cars (my youngest is 29 years old), but I want to buy a new car. Maybe not a brand new one, but one from the last decade. I’ll get into the reasoning behind why I no longer want to solely drive old junkers, but it really doesn’t matter because I’m stuck. Logical or not, I feel that if I buy the EV I want today, it may be obsolete in a few years, and if I buy an ICE today, it may be…obsolete in a few years. Here, allow me to explain.
Here are the two cars I’m debating purchasing:
- A 2023 Jeep Wrangler JL Sport 6spd (a vehicle I helped engineer)
- A 2015 BMW i3 (also an engineering masterpiece)
I’m considering purchasing one of these machines because the 405 here in LA is a monster that swallows small old cars, and my large-ish Jeep J10 is just too thirsty for the $5/gallon gas. Plus, I’m realizing that having a new-ish car can help socially. It’s really not about me having a commute and needing reliability, because my cars are actually quite reliable (especially the J10), it’s really more about me growing up a little bit.
To be honest, I really want to buy a BMW i3, because I want to practice what I preach, which is that people with commutes should drive EVs if they can, since the real joy of ICEs — the joy of driving (especially a stick shift) and listening to a nice exhaust note — is often lost during a boring commute, anyhow. Plus, as an engineer, I consider the BMW i3 to be a fascinating machine, with its carbon fiber body mounted to a frame, propelled by an EV powertrain with a battery that can be topped up by a motorcycle engine-derived motor that BMW calls a “range extender.” Here, you can learn more:
The problem is, a used i3 costs $15,000. This isn’t horrible, per se, but I’m not convinced that it won’t be worth less than $5,000 in five years — and that’s a lot more depreciation than I’d like to deal with. I say this because if, in five years, we can all get used Chevy Bolts that offer 250+ miles of range for $10 grand, then why would anyone pay anything near that for an i3 with only 75 miles of EV-only rage?
I realize I’m making a big assumption that we’ll be able to get high-ish-range EVs for cheap in five years, but it’s really not that big of a stretch. The Chevy Bolt only costs about $26,000, and after a $7,500 federal incentive, it can be purchased, in theory, for under $19,000. That’s dirt cheap, and the Bolt won’t be the only machine in the coming years to offer that kind of smoking hot deal.
Will the i3 be left in the dust? Will my $15,000 purchase seem foolish? It’s already starting to look foolish in the context of that Bolt deal I could get today (again, in theory).
That brings me to the Jeep Wrangler JL. ICEs aren’t going away for good anytime soon, and when I said “obsolete” in my first paragraph, I really didn’t mean technically obsolete. I just mean obsolete to those on the market for a new car. If I buy a JL today, especially here in California, will it depreciate like crazy in the next five years as more people have EV options, as EV infrastructure grows, as EV incentives ratchet up, and as fuel prices remain high (and possibly increase — again, who knows?).
Honestly, both of these purchases seem high risk if I care about depreciation. A Bolt less so, since it’s an EV and offers decent range.
It’s a tough time to buy a new car. At least, for me it is, though maybe I’m overthinking things. Maybe depreciation is just part of owning a new-ish car, though as someone who’s never bought a car that has depreciated, I’d like to own something that, at least from a basic technological standpoint, won’t be outdated in a few years. Maybe the problem is that the two cars I’m considering are already outdated.
Surely I’m not the only one facing this dilemma?
[Writer’s Note: I think the solution to EV hesitation is that if you can charge at home or at work and would like an EV, buy an EV that you like for other reasons than its powertrain. Think of it like buying a performance car: The AMGs, M cars and Corvettes of ten years ago can’t keep up with their modern equivalents in a straight line, but they’re generally more tactile, lighter, and simpler. The BMW i3 is outdated as an EV but it’s a cool feat of engineering with innovative construction, a lovely interior, and a funky form factor. The Ford Mustang Mach-E will likely be outdated in a generation but its inclination towards oversteer is fun and its buyer might love its styling. The Tesla Model 3 will eventually be outdated but it has a huge aftermarket community, good packaging, and the Supercharger network is an incredible feat of infrastructure. Every car eventually becomes outdated, but the great ones give us something to love once the new car smell wears off. -Thomas Hundal]
Definitely buy the Jeep. Wranglers have been outdated tech for a long time (and I loved the one I owned), but they don’t depreciate. I doubt that will change anytime soon. No one is buying it because it’s the best car or the most modern, but there are few things that are as fun if you don’t care about going fast. The only thing I will say is that, at least with the JKs, the back seat was 100% useless. No foot room, horrible to get in and out of with the top on, basically for show or putting someone you hate there. Maybe they improved that (I haven’t had a chance to sit in a JL).
But still, buy the Jeep (unless there’s a way to get a Jimny registered to a “second home” in Mexico or something).
I find the i3 to be an amazing piece of engineering too. I toyed with buying one, but it just didn’t have some of the advantages that my 2014 Volt had at the time. The Volt was a better choice for me and was still an amazing piece of engineering. I wouldn’t buy any 8 year old RV though. It’s too risky until battery replacements become more normalized. I sold my Volt just ahead of the 8 year old mark for that reason too. If you want to do EV, I think the Bolt or Bolt Euv is a great choice. Used is good too, because most have a new battery pack from the recall with a new warranty. It’s the practical choice for a commuter EV. I hope you have someplace to charge that isn’t public through. Just checkout the rates on public chargers. I found with my Volt that it was often much more expensive to use electric than gas, unless I was using my home charger.
David – buy the Bolt. You’re gonna buy a buncha other shit to work on and write about anyway, and you aren’t buying something for any kind of fun here. By the time the depreciation sets in really hard (and you are sick of wrenching on it), the entire market will have changed radically. The Bolt makes sense for what you need right now.
Why would you consider the used 2015 BMW when for $4k more, you could get the brand new Bolt you mentioned (as a benchmark)?
Get the Jeep or a Bolt.
I think buying a Jeep you had a hand in engineering would give you great comfort psychologically in years to come. Very few of us auto aficionados have had that opportunity.
There is a very low probability you will ever return to OEM auto manufacturing as a design engineer so this is really a high water mark for you that you will treasure for years to come.
Buy it and keep it forever.
In fact, order it and go back to factory where it is being built and take delivery.
You have the connections now to have those people on the production line autograph it.
It would be a wonderful story!
Beyond that, there is the obvious safety consideration of driving a new vehicle with modern safety features in LA traffic on a daily basis.
You have landed in a dangerous place from a serious accident probability standpoint.
It’s the vehicle mix that’s the culprit, that is to say civilian vehicles mixed with high doses of commercial heavy duty truck traffic traveling at different speeds.
We would all like you to live to a ripe old age!
I love strange cars so the i3 was on my list preCovid. I mean you could snag a used one for 10K. Then the used car market did that thing. So I will wait till it all cools down and revisit the i3. Seems perfect for bopping around town in style. (well style is in the eye of the beholder)
I say go for the electric car. You have plenty of Jeeps. Think of all the articles you could get out of living with an EV.
I’m in a similar situation. I hate depreciation costs. I have a diesel VW Golf estate with 190k miles, 80k of which done by me in the past 4 years. It cost me £2500, has been endlessly reliable and cost me £0 in repairs above maintenance/consumables and is worth all of £2.50 to anyone else.
However, it’s clearly not going to last forever and I have long wanted an EV, particularly an i3, which I think is an engineering masterpiece and successor to the Audi A2, which I owned and adored.
When I was looking at i3s four years ago they were available from £11k. Now they start at £14k. Whilst newer EVs are making them look dated, tech wise, demand for used EVs (here in the UK at least) is increasing faster than the market. I think this will continue as we get closer to our 2030 ban on new ICE.
Realistically, you’ll own a JL wrangler at some point in the next 25 years, but you’ll likely never go back for an i3 in the future, so now is the time.
OK, so here’s a new jeep project for David:
Find a wrecked Wrangler 4XE at auction cheaply.
Transplant the power plant into a 2 door JL.
Write many articles and produce many videos – make $$$.
David, the i3 is in fact a conversation piece, and with a range extender the range is … well … extended so you can’t really compare it to a Bolt. And if you want a used home-mounted Level 2 EVSE, hit me up: it’s yours for the cost of shipping from Seattle.
Jeep Wrangler 4XE. Problem solved.
Like others said.
Split the difference and get a BMW i8.
It has the better range extender.
I think the JL will hold up (price wise) incredibly well, especially with a manual and 2 door because they aren’t that common. It’s small enough to navigate traffic and still comfortable.
I drive EV already and understand the concern. The target to stop sale of new ICE in CA is 2035, a decade away. I think you should go for the Jeep out of these 2 vehicles. Having a Jeep in California can get you on some great soft roader trails around the Mojave and other great areas we have. You can take the roof off and enjoy the weather as well.
’19 Bolt owner here, in California. DD for 4 years. I like it a lot, especially for the money. Does 95% of my trips, but only 2/3 of my annual total miles driven because I have a TourX for road trips.
Things to consider:
All used Bolts got the new battery pack, with the longer range and a new 8 year battery warranty. 2017-2020 models are pretty much the same as long as you spec out the DC fast charge option, heated seats and heated steering wheel (we have all of those, and they are essential IMHO). So if you want one, you can look nationwide and pick the cheapest one in good shape that is spec’d the way you want it.
The bad: you really want to be able to charge at home, because it’s way cheaper and also incredibly convenient. Even with the DC fast charge option, fast charge speed is slow by 2023 standards. And the commercial non-tesla fast charge network is still pretty sparse outside major cities, although that will change over the next two years as the thousands and thousands of Biden authorized charge stations get built every 50 miles along all the interstates using that sweet, sweet federal cash and Tesla uses that same cash to open at least some of their charge networks to non tesla EVs.
Get the i3. It’s a great conversation piece that happens to be practical. 75 miles of range is low enough that an extension cord becomes a viable option. For bopping around LA the smaller car will fit better into tight parking spaces.
And being the person who practices what they preach is a good thing.
Doubt you’ll find any 2015 with anything close to full range. The batteries are old and older generation.
Just get a Jeep. Endless fun exploring outside of Los Angeles and you can tow a small trailer with it.
I’m not sure why you’re worried about depreciation at all. By the time you sell whatever you buy, it will be worth approximately $25, and you’ll write a six-part series about all the wrenching you had to do and $1900 worth of parts you had to install over the weekend before your second wedding to make it worth that $25. You’ll probably have to drive it 1,200 miles to the buyer, which will be part of the series, as that trip will form the foundation of your “honeymoon.”
That said, go i3. The rusty Jeep thing is getting boring, Dave. Give us something new.
To be clear, I know the Jeep he’s considering is not currently Rusty. But within a month of getting into Dave’s hands, the oxidation process will ramp up nicely. He is a rust magnet.
Split the difference and get the Wrangler 4xe. They lease very well, and you have enough cars in your fleet that you can use to make sure you stay in the lease mileage limits.
In 3 years when the lease is up the depreciation is someone else’s problem if the market for them is soft.
While you’ll probably always be able to buy a used i3, you only have a limited amount of time left to buy a new JL, they will eventually change and you won’t have the same connection to the new ones. Buy the Jeep, it’s what you really want, it dosen’t have to make sense.
Fuck it. Get the Jeep.
How is this even a question? Just buy the Jeep already.
Not sure if it’s truly an option, but if you can snag a Bolt & get the tax credit – so like <$25k…you can’t do much better. I guess the question is if you can charge at home (or at least have a level 2 within walking distance of your place). If not, I think it would be a hassle.
I’ve had an EUV since Sept. and really like it as a daily driver.
Instead of the BMW i3 with it’s crazy thin wheels, maybe a Volt, some higher mileage ones can be had for less than $15k, or go crazy and get an ELR, it’s the Cadillac of Chevy Volts.
I think the EV market right now is still very thin, your options are 4 door hatchback in various heights, or a Model S. The i3 does have those suicide doors so a bit different, but again those wheels.
If you do go the JL route, check out the eTorque turbo 4, that can get mid-20s regularly which is fairly decent for a Wrangler, think it was only available a couple of years though.
Out of those two, definitely the i3. It’s a technically very interesting car, CF body structure, rwd on tall skinny tires, and the REX engine alleviates a lot of the battery degradation or PG&E sitting down power for a windstorm problems. Plus… I thought you wanted to diversify your garage!
So… I’m guessing that you’re also not to fond of the Nash as a commuter? You could always get a module from a wrecked Chevy volt, a BAS motor to hook up to the FEAD, and make yourself a plug in hybrid
The jeep is the answer for you. New 2 door manual jeep that you’ll probably have for 10 years and need minimal maintenance hopefully. By then The Autopian will be huge and have branched out and you’ll be rolling in Doug DeMurro money and you can buy whatever you want.
The Bolt is a great commuter tho. There’s even a diy fix to the dumb break lights. I love mine. Even considering selling my 100 series since it just doesn’t get used much since I got the Bolt EV.