Here we are in our second week of Shitbox Showdown, and to start off with a bang it’s time for you to make the impossible ~$2000 choice between an automatic Peugeot 505 diesel and a manual Saab 900 Turbo convertible. Â
First, I want to thank all of you for the votes, replies, encouragement, and yes, even criticism. We’re still working out the kinks with this series of articles, but I’m having a blast, and I hope you all are as well. Readers have asked for more basic data on the actual cars, so I’m going to make a slight format change. At the top of each listing, before I get into the nitty-gritty, I’ll include some important information: year make and model, engine/drivetrain type, location, and whether it runs and/or drives.
Now, about that last one: I’ve bought enough cheap old cars to know that “runs and drives” sometimes only means “is capable of altering its location to a small degree,” but since we’re not able to investigate these cars in person, we’ll have to take the sellers’ word for it. For our purposes, therefore, “runs and drives” means you can at least in theory limp it home.
We’ve got a pair of rare European beauties to check out today, but first let’s look at last week’s final vote:
And our Shitbox of the Week winner is… the Studebaker wagon! I’m not surprised the Stude won — not just because it’s in the same family as a vehicle named the Champ, but mostly because, well, just look at this glorious thing:
I am surprised the Crown Vic was so far behind the other three after blowing that Chevy Caprice cop car out of the water like it did, but anyway, let’s move on and get some breakfast.
French Toast – 1984 Peugeot 505 STI Turbodiesel – $2200
Engine/drivetrain: 2.3 liter turbodiesel inline 4, automatic, RWD
Location: Portland, OR
Runs/drives? Yes, but not registered or driven on the road for 18 years
Peugeot never got the respect it deserved in America. It didn’t have the prestige of Mercedes or the cool factor of BMW or the high-tech image of Audi, and Volvo had the “quirky professor” demographic sewn up. Poor Peugeot was relegated to also-ran status, until it gave up and left the U.S. market in 1991. Here’s a snippet from the New York Times piece Peugeot To Pull Out Of Market In the U.S.:
A Peugeot spokesman said the withdrawal had been prompted by the failure of the company’s 405 model sedan to gain a significant share of the U.S. market.
[…]
The spokesman blamed the competition between American and Japanese automakers in the U.S. market for the failure of the 405.
“The American market is depressed and in conflict between U.S. and Japanese producers, and all the European automakers are caught in the vise,” he said.
[…]
Stephen Reitman, automotive analyst at UBS-Phillips & Drew in London, said the 405’s pricing had been “high relative to other manufacturers.”
He also observed that Peugeot’s dealer network in the United States, after the very modest performance of the previous standard-bearer, the 505, had cooled on the Peugeot make.
“Peugeot was typically a fourth brand, behind a dealer’s other European or American makes,” he said.
“It was usually relegated to a small, dusty corner of the showroom.”
Peugeot’s departure was a shame, because the 505 (and its predecessor, the 504) is a really nice car. It’s not luxurious, but it is comfortable. It’s not sporty, but it holds the road well. And in other parts of the world, old Peugeots, especially diesels like this, are legendary for their durability and toughness. There are still plenty of forty-year-old Peugeot diesels trundling around Africa earning their keep, which shows that keeping one on the road isn’t something that takes a hundred men or more to do.
[Editor’s note:Â Mark has stumped me with almost every pop-culture reference he’s made since he started writing at The Autopian last week. But I just got the Toto reference there, and I just had to add this note to revel in it a bit. -DT]
This particular 505 isn’t in terrible shape, but it does need some help. It runs and drives well according to the seller, but it hasn’t been registered since 2004, so you’d need to go over it before putting it back into service.
Finding parts isn’t easy, but the seller seems to be a “Peugeot guy” (he has another 505 for sale for $3,500) so maybe he can help. The outside looks a little ratty, with square patches of black primer, but I don’t see any rust. And the blue leather interior looks clean and inviting.
This car has been for sale for a while; I’ve seen this ad pop up several times over the past few years. Maybe it’s because it’s an automatic, or a diesel, or just a Peugeot, but it hasn’t found the home it deserves yet.
Swedish Pancakes – 1990 Saab 900 Turbo convertible – $2000
Engine/drivetrain: 2.0 liter turbo inline-4, 5 speed manual, FWD
Location: Bend, OR
Runs/drives? Yes, but bring a bungee cord for the hood
Good old Saab. Born from jets, murdered by bad business deals. Their cars were chock-full of odd-but-brilliant engineering and unconventional ideas that made sense if you just kept an open mind (You can’t remove the key unless the manual gear shift is in reverse — annoying? Maybe. But kind of makes sense!). Saab was the weird kid in study hall, over in the corner creating fantastic new worlds that no one else really understood.
Then in 1989, right around the same time that Bob Rock first produced a Metallica album, General Motors started absorbing the Swedish car brand. Like the previous musical reference that I know for sure my editor didn’t understand [Editor’s note: True. -DT], results weren’t optimal: the name was the same, but the feel was totally different, and that “outsider” quality that made them what they were was almost completely lost. GM-era Saabs were neither as interesting nor as well-made as their Saab-Scania predecessors.
This Saab 900 predates the GM years in terms of design; it’s the old “Classic” 900 design, with a backwards-facing four-cylinder engine (yes, the clutch is up front!) sitting right on top of the front axle. That engine is turbocharged and powers a five-speed manual that the seller says is “hard to get into reverse.” This should probably be addressed sooner rather than later, because as I mentioned before, you have to shift into reverse when you shut the car off to release the key from the center-console-mounted ignition switch.
The seller says the car “runs and drives great,” but the 2008 tags and the cooling fan and other unidentifiable bits in the trunk give me pause. You’ll also need to find a replacement hood latch, because the original is – I can’t resist – bork-bork-borked. [Editor’s note: Once again…no clue. -DT].Â
There they are, our Monday morning breakfast treats. A Swedish pancake and French toast, both deserving of a second chance. Which one is right for you?
Duh. You can guess my pick. Honestly I bought a 900 convertible that wasn’t far off that price, ran it for years. It hit the ‘dump in money to repair/really fix the damn thing OR get rid of it’ threshold and I got rid of it. Still regret that. I’m probably going to buy another when I retire as my wife loved that car. Price is in line with what I see over at SAABnet. (https://www.saabnet.com/tsn/class/900convertibles.html)
For 2k if the top is decent it’s not a bad price. Replacement tops are a pain in the butt. As much as I like the old Peugeot I’m going with the 900.
Peugeot all the way! Scarce! Could only be better were it a manual, familiale and Dangel.
Disclaimer: I am not impartial, for the first 7 years it’s predecessor was our family’s transportation.
Enzo knew why he choose that’s predecessor for daily duties, they are so comfortable and capable.
Peugeot all the way! That is so scarce it could only be better being a manual and a “familiale”.
I am not impartial as during my first 7 years the predecessor was our family transportation.
Enzo also knew what he was doing when he choose that’s predecessor for daily duties, they are just so comfortable and capable.
There is ancestral lore about grandma’s Peugeot in my partners family. Legend has it that when she separated from her husband in 1989, she went out and bought a Peugeot 505 wagon for a then astronomical $19k. Three years later, she had spent another $19k on a never ending series of repairs, driving her back into the arms of her husband.
If I was a terrible person, I’d love to buy the Peugeot to drive it to family functions.
I have a suggestion; for all future posts, could you please also provide the odometer reading for each of the subject vehicles? This might weigh in on the decision process.
Great work so far!
Good idea, and will do, when the mileage is available. It isn’t always.
Can I also suggest title status? Clean/salvage/rebuilt can be very influential as well.
And your credit card number!
Really DT?!?! You don’t get the Bork Bork Bork reference? Come on man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN1hL9cn7s0
I’m beginning to realize that I’ve lived under a rock for 30 years.
And under a rusty Jeep for most of the past decade. 🙂
Right? And after it being a staple back in the old country for years.
Saab all the way. I get the appeal of the Pugeot, the engine would probably run on anything you put in the tank, but all in all, I would rather have a 900. They’re just such a cool look ing car.
Sheesh. I really don’t want either of them this time around, but loathe to be “that guy” so … I’ll pick the Peugeot. I’m sure the Saab will win, merely because it’s a stick, but c’mon folks … there’s no fun to be had there. Yes parts will be easier to find, but I’ve known a couple people who attempted to revive Saabs that were past their expiration dates, and it did not go well. I learned enough to know I never want to take a wrench to one of those balls of weird. And this one being a convertible makes it all the worse. I’ll take the thing that is instead known for being unkillable in Africa. At least I’ll get there … probably … eventually …
My vote is for the Peugeot. Old enough to convert to Vegetable Oil. Would smell like Frites (French for French Fries)
Duck fat or GTFO!
I don’t want to have to slaughter a bunch of ducks & render the fat every time I need to fill the tank.
But for potatoes? Get your affairs in order, Donald. There’s a pan of russets demanding your sacrifice.
Saab all the way! It’s got so much more appeal and it’s a ragtop and a manual. Damn, that’s hard to beat.
I felt like Indiana Jones looking at that snake-filled engine compartment in the Peugeot. It’s scary when new. Replacing all that rubber now will make some grown man cry.
I love the Frenchie for being a quirkier, (ARGUABLY) better looking car, but The Saab, with its convertible top and 3 pedals would be the way to go. Easier to find parts, edge in the Fun-to-drive department, and honestly the body is clean enough to make it a perfectly respectable looking everyday driver with a little bit of elbow grease.
As tempting as the SAAB is, I’d take the Peugeot. Had the SAAB been the hardtop I might have voted for it, but I’m not a fan of convertibles (unless it’s built to be a convertible like the S2k or MX5) simply because they usually feel like a bit of an afterthought. Additionally, I could see the Peugeot as being an interesting daily driver and with the diesel it has the potential to just keep running. That said, I would be talking the price down a couple hundred dollars to put the car under $2000.
I’d go with the SAAB from previous experience with the brand and there MT, but I have to say, the Peugeot’s front end has always caught my eye (in a good way). The balance of the lights, grill and front hood line are perfect.
I went with the Saab. Those things, if maintained, are darn near unkillable. Plus the 900s are easy to find and many sources for parts.
Throw a couple of grand at it and you have good commuter, college car, errand runner, and for a bit more a nice weekend cruiser.
The Peugeot is not a bad car, but if I had those choices, a pile of money, and told buy one in the next 15 minutes, the Saab wins.
As an elderly Englishman my take on these is going to be……….just the same as every one else’s.
The Peugot is interesting but dull at the same time, maybe it is insufficiently French. Also, from memory that auto’box was horrid. on the other hand, with a bit of tlc it will keep on being a car for years.
The SAAB,, with the same tlc will keep on being an entertaining car for years.
I feel like a Peugeot 505 is the only car you can choose over a Saab 9000 when it comes to quirky shitboxes.
I’m going to be honest I couldn’t decide so I flipped a coin and the Saab ended up getting my vote. That Peugeot front end is mighty fine and I’ve always had a soft spot for the brand.
One is a classic. The other is a Peugeot diesel.
I’m one of the four that voted for the Peugeot so far. Hear me out on this one. The things that initially make the Saab more appealing also make it a money pit. Sure, it’s a manual and a convertible. But, we know the transmission doesn’t work all that well, so that will need to be swapped. Want to bet the top doesn’t work?
OTOH, I’ll bet the diesel could be sorted enough to drive more easily. And, once it’s sorted, it will just run.
Dude. The Muppet Show. Swedish Chef. Thought that was an easy one.
Darn kids these days! *shakes fist*
I feel like a restoration budget statement should be part of the inputs. Without constraints, I’d rather end up with the sorted convertible Saab, but I think the Frenchie could be useful with less parts and shop time. Last week I bounced back and forth on my assumption of what I was looking for, either reasonable wheels or a wonderful restoration project.
The Saab, no doubt. The Peugot (Puke Guts, as we referred to them back in the 90’s) is a quirky and weird car for sure, but it’s auto, diesel, French, and worst of all: you’re NEVER going to be able to get parts for it easily. Saab isn’t quite as easy to get parts for as a VW or a BMW, but at least they were actually sold here for decades. Plus, it’s a convertible, turbo, manual, and despite being FWD, would still be fun as hell.
I also think that you guys should do some video content on these. Like an Epic Rap Battles of History but ‘The Autopian Shitbox Showdown!’ where each car gets a writer and someone has say, 45 seconds or 1 minute to convince you to buy their shitbox instead of the opponents shitbox.
Have you ever driven a Saab 900 of this generation? I have, and fun isn’t a word I would use to describe the experience. The car feels incredibly heavy, the clutch pedal was very tiring to use (so heavy!), just like the gear stick. The handling is ok, but the ride was harsh. Yes it has a turbo with enormous lag, and that’s kind of fun, the first few times. But soon you’ll notice that most of the time you don’t get the power when you need it, and usually, by the time the turbo starts pushing, you have to get off the gas…
Yeah, I had one of these in high school. If there’s too much lag? Change the turbo, put a beefier clutch in it, etc. All those things are changable pretty easily. The Peugot? There’s zero aftermarket support for. It’s an 80’s turbodiesel attached to an 80’s automatic. That thing is gonna suuuuuuck to drive.
I was surprised how badly my 900 handled even with new Bilsteins all around, I replaced it with a Volvo 740 wagon that actually handled
Peugeots also had a nasty habit of having the rear widow shatter, randomly. Happened to my neighbor, boy was he was pissed!
I’m not sure a single random incident warrants being extrapolated into “habit”.
Reverse lock out was a very common thing back in the day, I know in the 60s and 70s GM used it, I’m not sure about Ford or Chrysler.
Even though I bought a “shitbox” just two months ago, if that Saab wasn’t on the other side of the country, I’d be plopping down cash for another one!
What an awesome website – they read the input from the readers and actually take it into consideration! The updated format works well for this series. This was a tough one for a minute because of the diesel, but as soon as I saw the manual in the Saab it was hands-down. Is there anything better than slamming through the gears with the top down? Probably- but I’ll need to think a little before I come up with it.