Good morning! Today we’re headed back to project car land again, with a lone Italian against a half dozen French hatchbacks. I’ll explain in a minute. First, let’s see where we landed with Friday’s all-wheel-drive contenders:
Interesting. My wife actually preferred the Bravada, and her opinion counts more than any of yours. And I don’t really want to deal with a transverse V6, the more I think about it. With a little more searching, we’ve discovered that better deals are to be had on the larger SUVs, so we’re considering things like Expeditions and Tahoes and Yukon Denalis (or is it “Yukons Denali,” like “Attorneys General?”). I’ll let you know how it all turns out.
Today, however, we’re looking at smaller, older, rougher, more European vehicles. I found someone selling an adorable little Fiat, and a Renault hoarder looking to divest. Let’s see what they have to offer.
1962 Fiat 1200 Granluce – $1,500
Engine/drivetrain: 1.2 liter overhead valve inline 4, four-speed manual, RWD
Location: Garden Grove, CA
Odometer reading: unknown
Runs/drives? Engine runs, but not driveable
The Fiat 1200 was a larger, more upscale version of the 1100, which is one of those cars that was license-built for decades after Fiat stopped building it themselves. It never was a common sight in the US, but show this car to anyone of a certain age in, say, India, or Eastern Europe, and they’d recognize it instantly. The four-door sedan version of the 1200 was known as the “Granluce,” which translates as “great light” or “daylight,” a reference to the car’s enormous greenhouse, with a tall roof and big windows for a bright, airy feel.
Believe it or not, this is a six-passenger car. Its bench seat and column shifter wouldn’t look out of place in a contemporary American car, and supposedly it’s wide enough to allow three-across seating in both the front and the back. I think you’d all have to be really comfortable with each other, though. The seller says the seats are “together and functional,” which, hooray?
The little 1221cc pushrod four does run, but the car isn’t exactly roadworthy – it needs at least a brake master cylinder and the fuel tank cleaned out, and probably lots more. There’s some rust here and there (I mean, it’s a Fiat, after all) and the interior needs some work, but look at it! It’s so cute!
Yes, you’re right; you’ll never find certain parts for it, especially trim and interior bits. But who cares? Think of it as a blank slate. Finish it off however you like. No one is going to know what the interior of a Fiat 1200 Granluce is supposed to look like anyway.
One of six 1970ish Renault 16s – $1500-3000 each
Engine/drivetrain: 1.6 liter overhead valve inline 4, four-speed manual, FWD
Location: Glendale, AZ
Odometer reading: various
Runs/drives? Not for decades
The Renault 16 is one of those cars that was successful everywhere except the US. French cars never really caught on here, but they do have their enthusiasts, and the folks who love them really seem to love them. I mean, they made over 1.8 million of these things, and this guy owns 0.0003% of them. Not exactly cornering the worldwide market, but I bet it’s a significant portion of the US models.
The Renault 16 is a hatchback, but it predates the term; it was called a “Sedan-Wagon,” which I guess is accurate. It’s a weird design – when Renault went from rear-engine cars to front-engine cars, they basically just took the whole engine/transaxle assembly and moved it forward. The longitudinally-mounted engine, which was behind the rear axle, is now just behind the front axle. But that’s not the weird part. Because of the rear suspension design, the wheelbase is actually almost three inches shorter on the right side than the left. You’d think this would cause handling weirdness, but apparently it doesn’t, and in the grand French tradition, the ride quality is reportedly superb.
Unfortunately, it’ll be hard to experience that famous French smoothness in any of these without some work. Two of the cars have license plates with the registration tags visible; one was last on the road in 1979, and another in 1987. On the others, your guess is as good as mine, but I think it’s safe to say that the last tankful of gas pumped into any of these cost less than a buck a gallon.
Obviously any of these cars is going to be quite a project to put back into service, but they’re neat cars, and I think at least a couple of them deserve a chance. It’s probably best to carefully choose two of them and make one good one, and I bet the seller would make you a pretty good deal. Or – hear me out – buy all six, get ’em running, don’t worry about the cosmetics, and make the greatest spec-racing series of all time.
Yeah, I know, a lot of you hate it when I do project cars. But I think these are cool, and I like the idea of saving them. Who’s with me, and which one do you want?
(Image credits: Craigslist sellers)
Both models come with a divorce.
Fiat, solely for those bitchin wheels.
RWD is a bonus in this case.
Is none of the above a choice?
Both interesting but that Fiat is cute as a button. I would rock that car happily and without a shred of hipster irony. Even though I’m usually a fan of restoration to original nobody knows what original is on that car so it’s a great candidate for simply making a good-looking restomod.
My vote goes to the Fiat since at least it runs.
The person with the Renaults sounds like one of those ‘I know what I’ve got’ hoarders who wants top dollar for his crap.
If he was selling all 6 of his non-running POS Renaults for $3000, then it would merit consideration.
But $1500-$3000 for EACH of those non-running, parts-missing POSes? No thanks… he can keep ’em.
I’m good with the Renault: I can park it at the end of my driveway and facing the street: everbuddy will think I own a ’61 – ’63 Pontiac Tempest, and I’m OK with that.
My only Italian car had a rusted subframe that left me stranded in the middle of a garage forecourt. My French cars just kept on going. Vive le Renault 16!
Hard pass on both! All of these vehicles are terribly unreliable .
I’d take the money instead and put it towards buying an Electric Bike.
Fiat, reminds me on the Premier Padminis I used to see in India. Those were the 1100 under license.
One thing I noticed on these pics is the dash stamping. Look at the hole for the gage cluster and the glove box. Looks like you could swap LH & RH drive real easy on that.
Are there enough parts from the 5 16’s he’s selling to make one good one?
Can’t we just buy both? That would be like getting car enthusiast Bingo.
In my totally unbiased opinion, the Fiat is the way to go.
Replace the existing fuel tank with a fuel cell in the trunk, 3-D print or otherwise fabricate the small trim pieces, and have fun with it. And give it a thorough cleaning.
I remember buying gas for $0.779/gallon in 1999. As in 80 cents even. It was wonderful.
Fiat. Spend a month cleaning/fixing/replacing the obvious, then weeks of increasingly large circles around your home. 6 months later, you have a funky little sedan with character. Likely for under 6k all-in.
I imagine the French David Tracy (it could happen) buying all the Renaults. Of course the resulting webseries about the effort to cobble together one drivable car would result in hearing about an improbable Legionnaires Disease diagnosis, a metric shitton of rust and an utter rabbit hole concerning hinges or something. Also questionable food.
I learned to drive, and did my first wrenching while helping my dad, on a ’74 Renault 12, so I guess I have about as much nostalgia for that era of French weirdness as one can have. No thanks. Despite the dire reliability reputation of old Fiats, that one just looks like more fun.
The Fiat is close enough to the styling of an Anglia Fiat, most would not realize I think if we Harry Pottered that thing.
The Renault 16 is a great car, comfortable, weird, easy to work on and beats the Fiat hands down.
However when it comes to these projects I’d rather give the FIAT shell a restomod.
Definitely the super-cute Fiat. It would make such a great restomod starting point. That Renault is bugly. And by that I mean its butt makes it ugly.
Since it’s unlikely that any of these cars will ever drive again, for me it comes down to one question: which would I prefer to see sitting in my yard, as viewed from my kitchen window? The Fiat, by a wide margin.
Fiat by the nose, it’ll be easier to work on and likely to get parts for since a lot of Italian sports cars made heavy use of the Fiat sedan parts bin.
This is easy! I owned a Renault 16. Paid $150 for it, then spent almost $2K on paint, upholstery, parts (which were somewhat available in the mid-1980s), and topped it all off with a five-speed transaxle (kept the column shift) a friend brought home from France. What a lovely, lovely car, roomy, comfortable, easy to work on and, well, distinctive. I was dumb for selling it.
Would I do it again? If I still had space, tools and access to parts I guess I’d have to if I bought one of these. It’d be fun, and not terribly difficult. Dude is asking too much, though.
Of course the same requirements seem to apply to the Fiat. Wrenching for sure, and as much attention to cosmetics as the pocketbook can stand. Still, I favor know quantities, and the one of the Renaults is it.
Screw OEM parts; restomod that Fiat to win all the cars and coffees.
There’s no way the Renaults win this — that Fiat is mid-century fabulous, and the 124 Spider alloys look great. But I have always loved the 16, and I’d absolutely buy two of them to make one decent one. Plus, from the looks of the Renaults’ environs, the owner’s probably a true Autopian, and certainly has great stories about all the cars on their lot, especially that mk2 Cortina.
“I don’t really need 6 of them, I am only keeping one and will sell the rest if somebody is interested.”
They say the first step is admitting that you have a problem.
Somebody give this guy DT’s number