Last week I published a review of the new 2025 Ram 1500, which is different from the 2024 model primarily because it has a straight-six engine in place of the legendary HEMI V8, and because it can be had in a new $87,000+ “Carbide” trim. That’s a lot of money for a pickup truck, and a number of commenters made it clear that it was too much money. Luxurious pickup trucks, you see, are completely absurd, these detractors say. I disagree.
“87k for a half-ton?? No, just no,” reads one comment on our Instagram post published just before the truck review. “87k for any truck is too much” reads another.
“There is zero reason for this exist. Just buy an Escalade or Yukon Denali. This will never be used as a ‘truck,'” writes Instagrammer ziltoid_attax, only to be followed up by user dirkmcdougal, who writes: “Leather wrapped luxury PICKUP TRUCK. These things should all be destroyed. Just a testament to how dumb the American consumer has become.”
This is not an uncommon sentiment towards fancy, expensive pickup trucks. Building a luxury truck is a bit like someone putting Armani seats and a Tiffany crystal-shifter in a tractor. Even though folks have been daily driving pickup trucks for 100 years, the reality is that pickup trucks are still seen as work implements. And it makes sense; take one peek at a truck, and you’ll see that half the vehicle (though an increasingly smaller proportion) is a bed that’s not meant to seat any passengers — it’s meant solely for folks to throw stuff into. A humongous element of the truck’s styling communicates “haul things.” Add to that the fact that every single pickup truck manufacturer markets their pickup trucks as hard-working tools, and it’s easy to see pumping luxury into something meant to get dirty and smudged and torn and dinged as a complete waste of time.
Hell, this Ram commercial literally starts with the narrator saying: “A truck is a tool.”
But as the later parts of that commercial clearly show, a truck is no more a tool than aviator glasses are military eye-protection, than Timberlands are work boots, than a fancy Carhartt jacket is thermal protection for factory workers, or than a Mercedes G-Wagon is a military off-road machine. These former tools can still mostly do what they were initially designed to do — and in fact, that’s key to making them so marketable — but their primary usage has evolved.
Pickup trucks were initially work machines, sure, and while some folks did daily drive them in the early days, only in the past 30 or so years — and especially in the last 10 — did they truly evolve into daily-cruisers, with many of them becoming rather swanky. I’m OK with that.
Why must someone who enjoys driving a pickup truck have to pilot a sedan or SUV if they want luxury? Why is a Mercedes S-Class, Rolls Royce Continental GT, or Cadillac Escalade somehow acceptable, but a Ram 1500 Carbide or a Ford F-150 King Ranch or a Chevy Silverado High Country or even a high-end Toyota Tacoma or Ford Ranger isn’t? These are all wallowy, beautifully-riding luxury machines that cost a ton; in some ways you could argue that the trucks represent a less silly way to spend money given that they also offer a versatility that the others don’t.
I think part of the reason why folks dislike fancy pickups is that they are perceived as a threat to the cheap, basic trucks that so many people yearn for. I’m not entirely convinced that that’s fair; a basic 1998 Dodge Ram started at $16,335; that’s about $31,000 in modern bucks. A 2023 Ram Classic costs $32,345 — sure, it’s up a little, but it’s also stuffed with way, way more mandatory safety features and standard content.
To be clear: I would never buy a luxury pickup truck. In fact, the main reason why I purchased my 1985 Jeep J10 pickup was that it was the simplest version of my favorite truck, and in my eyes that makes it the ultimate. It came from the factory with an unkillable AMC straight six, a stickshift, a bench seat, vinyl floors, a stamped tailgate, a regular cab, a long bed, manual locking hubs, and not a whole lot more.
I love a no-frills pickup because I love a vehicle that rarely breaks, and that I can fix easily (I rebuilt the transmission in my kitchen for $150). Still, despite my own personal preferences, I have no issue with folks who love driving pickup trucks — and that’s a huge portion of the American population; head into the country, and you’ll see that pickups are used just like normal sedans or crossovers are in other parts of the country — wanting a bit of luxury in their lives.
There’s no reason why a pickup driver should have to buy an SUV or sedan just because they want nice seats or a magic-carpet suspension. Let these folks continue driving in the type of vehicle they love, but with air springs and massaging leather and big screens. No need for them to have to buy a Yukon Denali. As long as this doesn’t jack up the prices of a bare-bones truck too much, I think it’s time to chill on all the luxotruck hatred.
[Quick Note:
This article applies to all pickup trucks, including the Ford Maverick and Ranger and Nissan Frontier. The issue of trucks and SUVS and crossovers being too damn big is a different topic, but it’s worth noting that the effects that has on pedestrian protection are very real. Having more full-size truck and large SUV/CUV offerings does encourage more people to drive big vehicles, so having a problem with BIG luxury trucks and SUVS/crossovers for that reason makes sense. Though this article is more about the issue so many people have with pickups being fancy since pickups are “supposed to be” tools. There are luxury versions of pretty much every car type (including SUVs, which were also mean to be tools — off-roadesr), so slathering leather and screens inside a pickup cab isn’t that big of a deal. (And in fact, adds pedestrian protection via cameras and pedestrian protection).
Also: Please accept my apologies for my Sunday “David’s Takes” Op-Ed being a bit shorter and later than it has been in the past. I’m currently in a lounge in Las Vegas, celebrating my youngest brother’s 30th birthday:
I’m walking around with a backpack, blogging in casinos and lounges. Some say I look like a nerd; that’s fine (and true), because you all deserve blogs. -DT]
If you hate the proliferation of small SUVs and crossovers in place of small ‘fun’ cars, then I think you should also be hating the gentrification of the pick-up truck.
It’s my opinion that it was the buyers shifting away from the mid to full sized sedan to the four-door pickup truck that has spurred others to move away from their cars. It’s not comfortable driving in busy, crowded traffic when you’re surrounded by massive slab o’trucks have a window line higher than the roof of your ‘sensible’ sedan. Not to mention night time driving when everyone else’s headlights are at your eye level.
I’m just here for more pics of David fancy drinking random things lol
I think part of the reason why people are going to trucks is that there’s a lack of actually soft, cushiony sedans and cars for sale. So if there’s no soft, cushiony, luxurious sedans people go to trucks with those attributes. Just a thought.
Lots of new SUVs and trucks are terrible for pedestrian safety. Those hood lines obstruct a lot of vision of people- especially little kids.
I’m more against the idea of giving Chrysler/Stellantis $90k. Maybe recent Ford has worse QC lately but still, Stellantis? Really? And a ton of first-gen technology at that.
I have a 1985 Nissan pickup. But my wife has the 4 door Dodge Ram. She tows more than I do. I did insist on a short bed though. While we use the bed, we don’t use it to haul 8 ft sheets of plywood everywhere we go, so short bed is enough. Long bed is just too damn much truck. But really, I’ll keep my 4×4 mini truck. I don’t much enjoy driving vehicles that large.
I have owned pickups, they were tools to accomplish goals and utilitarian. I think a lot of them are purchased because they are big and comfy and make people feel safe. I have a wagon and a utility trailer now and if it’s bigger than that I either get delivery or rent a truck.
My biggest issues with luxury trucks is the size and weight. This certainly isn’t unique to luxury trucks – full-size SUVs and non-lux trux are just as big and heavy. The problem is that they broaden the appeal of any vehicles this size and attract more buyers that may not have bought a more spartan work-truck or a Yukon/Excursion/Escalade in the past.
My concerns are 3-fold: First and by far the most important, safety of everyone around these larger vehicles is really not taken into account. Worse sight-lines from higher hoods and beltlines and larger distance from the driver to the vehicle edges make it harder to see smaller people, obstacles, and vehicles. Higher hoods make it more likely that obstacles (like pedestrians, smaller cars etc) get run over instead of pushed forward or up onto the hood, and greater mass makes the damage that they impart in any impact larger, more easily overwhelming smaller vehicles crash structures. A 35 mph head-on impact with a wall (no deformation) in a car is roughly equivalent to a 35 mph head-on impact with another car of the same mass traveling towards your car at the same speed. However, if you double the mass of the other car in the collision heading towards your car, the impact to your car (on a purely energy = 1/2 mV^2 basis) would be the same as your car hitting a wall at 50 mph – faster than you were driving since the additional mass of the other car won’t just stop you, it’ll push you backwards.
Second – its a lot harder to see around these vehicles in traffic if you aren’t in something similarly sized, which admittedly is more of an annoyance but can certainly have safety impacts (not being able to see past another vehicle when making an un-protected left or right turn etc onto a busy street etc)
Third – resource use. Without getting too far into the weeds of the climate/CO2 impacts of larger, heavier vehicles (more drag, more rolling resistance, more mass to accelerate and decelerate etc) all equates to more energy used during their lifetime and in their manufacturing. They also do more damage to infrastructure just in normal use.
I’d address this with staged licensing. Your basic operator’s license would cover vehicles up to 2 tons, up to 300 hp, that fit within a certain “box” to limit dimensions. Next step up would be 4 tons, 500 hp, and a larger box, etc. These would have specific testing based on vehicle sight lines, placement in a lane & sightlines, following distance/braking etc. There would also be a “high performance” category for high HP, lower weight & volume that would of course have a different focus. I realize that many more common vehicles, like modern minivans and even larger sedans, would fall outside of the “basic” license above, but that wouldn’t be a bad thing and could even normalize the process, helping to make it more common and not perceived as the huge step that going to a commercial license is today.
This way, people can drive what they want, but hopefully we start to address the safety concerns with larger vehicles.
Staged licensing isn’t a bad idea because so many people simply are not competent to drive the large vehicles they’ve chosen. In general, I think the US needs stricter licensing. Unfortunately, unless you make it very onerous to get past that basic license, there won’t be much to discourage the “higher cost” vehicle choices.
Pedestrian and “other vehicle” crash test standards would do a lot. It would force those vehicle heights down and help limit total weight. Similarly, adjusting CAFE regulations to stop benefiting larger footprints would also help. Finally, true weight-based registration costs would act to discourage heavier vehicles and make up for the added cost to infrastructure. If a half ton truck doesn’t cost 2-4x more than a midsize sedan to register, that system is broken.
I like the idea of “other vehicle” crash tests – take the vehicle being evaluated and rank it on the safety in a crash not just of its own occupants but the occupants of a 5th percentile vehicle in size, weight, and age based on the estimated current vehicle fleet – today that would probably work out to a Corolla or Focus or something. A new representative vehicle would be chosen every 3 years or so for the physical test to make sure that it is not stagnant either (and faced with issues of finding a decent sample size of un-damaged, un-rusted examples). Alternatively, the test could be run against a sled of a fixed mass and dimensions representative of this 5th percentile vehicle, with the “other vehicle safety” score calculated from accelerometers on the sled. This way the test still penalizes weight and size outliers but adjusts over time to vehicle trends.
I don’t think the more advanced licenses would need to be incredibly hard to get, but they should do a much better job of imparting the responsibility that you have towards others with the capabilities that the advanced license grants you, and would need to be renewed and re-tested every few years.
Definitely all of this needs to be based on the true curb weight of the specific vehicle, with some of the advanced licenses also comprehending the fully-loaded GVWR
I’d say the “other car” test should stipulate a less than 1-star degradation in crash test results for an average aged compact sedan in standard frontal and side barrier tests. Basically, a brand new F-150 should be able to hit a 2012 Corolla and the Corolla’s calculated score can’t drop more than 1 star in each category. With modern computer modeling, this should be pretty straightforward to calculate based on the applied force of the “tested” vehicle.
Likewise, I’d straight up adopt the Euro NCAP pedestrian standards. Any vehicle that failed to pass both tests would be classified as a commercial vehicle and subjected to CDL standards.
I am definitely not saying anything unique here, but my problem isn’t specifically with luxury trucks. Or even all truck owners
It’s the seemingly exponential growth of both the number of pickups on the road *and* the growth of pickups in size. So there are more trucks and they’re all bigger than they used to be.
When I was living in the country and suburbs it wasn’t as big of a nuisance. There were large parking spaces and lots of wide lane roads. But now living in the city, they are a humongous nuisance. They don’t fit in tight parking spots on the street and clog up parking garages. On one way residential roads with street parking on both sides of a single lane is common in Indianapolis. These giant trucks are almost always poorly parked and make it harder to navigate. At least once a month a recycling truck has to backup because some jackass with a dually or a lifted mall crawler with the WIDE WHEELS thinks they can just park that on the street with 12in of room between their back tires and the curb with no issue. Oh, and on the narrow multi-lane roads, full size trucks are constantly crossing the center line and occupying multiple lanes because they have no extra room within their own lane. I guess me in my sedan will just have to keep dodging them and hope they don’t run my car over. And that is not an exaggeration when I can clearly see the damn frame and under bed spare on even stock trucks. Others have mentioned the threats these pose to pedestrians, children, and cyclists.
Note- If you use your truck to tow, haul, and do truck stuff on a regular basis you aren’t who I am talking about. If you know how to park and keep that huge vehicle in your own damn lane, you aren’t who I am talking about.
Obviously the problem isn’t with the trucks but with the crappy design of American cities.
The only solution is to raze the cities and rebuild them to look more like Texas. Simply repurpose any and all space currently used by public transit/bikes/pedestrians to make way for big pickup trucks and SUVs.
Also stop bothering to sweep the streets. Its a waste of taxpayer money
/s
I’ve always felt, just let people drive what they like. If you don’t like it, that’s fine – but why all the hate and negativity towards it? For example I don’t like brodozers – but I don’t walk up to the owners of them and tell them they suck, or that they should only drive base model work trucks. I just silently judge them (as they are no doubt silently judging me for my Nissan Frontier)…
For me the negativity starts when these enormous trucks actively make getting around the city more difficult and more dangerous. Reasonable people can tolerate this for trucks that need to be there and are doing work that a smaller/narrower/shorter vehicle can’t accomplish. Hell, they’re fine in most non-urban settings where they fit better. But a massive truck only used for commuting that literally clogs up streets and parking garages is a nuisance and safety issue.
People would like to have lots of things they shouldn’t be allowed to have.
No ones saying you should walk up to a bro-dozer owner and curse them out, that’s a bit of a false equivalence. People should be able to drive what they want, if they can prove that they’re capable of doing so safely and courteously to exist in a transportation system with everyone else, and if they cover the full cost of their decisions on the infrastructure (and I’d argue the environmental costs too, but that seems a bit outside this scope – more of a carbon tax issue)
I like the Ram Mega Cab and Lincoln Blackwood more than I should, but the thing that pisses me off the most is that these big-ass luxury trucks are now the *only* cars Detroit wants to make. There are various reasons for this, including, but not limited to, the stupid chicken tax, different-not-better standards (non-monetary tariff), short term thinking, and unreasonable UAW demands.
They can’t compete on quality or any other merits.
If they were available in addition to the other stuff, fine. But because American car companies are just trucks, trucks, trucks.
In particular, Ford absolutely HATES anyone that knows they make more than the F150.
….okay now you have me curious. Ford’s whole lineup seems to be fairly compact (maybe you could make an argument for getting rid of one of: Explorer, Edge, Bronco Sport….but otherwise looks pretty good). But is there a quote or something to that effect, of what you’re saying?
I get your gist, but I don’t know if I’ve ever heard it said like that.
I’m more of a base + a few options on trucks kind of guy, I think it comes from living with base models for a long time while I was working in the field (construction). It’s hard to justify doubling the cost of a truck for the same drivetrain and basic setup. Crew cab, v8, and 4×4 in the lowest trim I can get with heated seats please. The fancy seats and sunroof are nice but it’s just not worth 2x the price of a lower trim imo.
Side note: I had an F150 XL for a while with a single cab and all I wanted the whole time was more interior space haha single cabs are over hyped.
I guess we can all take solace in knowing that luxo truck owners will be in perpetual debt for buying something they don’t need/can’t afford.
More trucks=more pedestrian and cyclist deaths… no sympathy over here.
Rent $1100
Food $500
Insurance $150
Truck payment for 6 years $1500
Please help my family is dying
$1100 for rent? Really?
Plug in your own number then jesus
Clearly you haven’t paid rent in a while.
Well, rent varies quite a lot by location also….
This meme this is based on originally listed $800 back in 2013, so I appreciate the update to $1100. Just pretend the rent is in rural Oklahoma or something.
Maybe in one of those former missile silos.
I’m a bit confused by how you’re questioning that. Incredulous in a good or bad way?
I pay $1050 rent for a 950 square foot 1 bed/1 bath in Pennsylvania.
I live in the SFBA. Rents here are…more.
I use my truck to tow long distances. If I gotta sit in a truck for 8 hours I want it nice.
The mistake is considering these “trucks” in the first place. We have such hardwired ideas of what a “truck” is that the common internet car enthusiast gatekeeps what a truck can and should be, and it’s so silly.
It’s like saying that you can’t call the Kia Carnival a nice car, because for 30 years Kia’s were junk. Times change.
It’s not a truck. It’s a Luxury vehicle with a bed.
“Luxury”- A condition of great ease and comfort. -Merriam Webster
These trucks allow the owner the ability to commute anywhere, in any weather, tow 90 % of what the typical consumer would need to tow, haul about as much weight as one can fit in the bed, road trip across the country swaddled in a comfortable, quiet, and spacious interior, I could go on. As long as one doesn’t have a problem with driving a bigger vehicle (and in 90 percent of this country, the size really isn’t a problem at all) I would argue that for 90 large, there really arent many better luxury vehicles at all!
I’ve driven a lot of “luxury” cars that, for one reason or another, struck me as NOT luxurious at all. Hard to get in and out of, cramped, cheap materials, annoying features, absolutely lousy ride quality, it’s all out there.
The ride height is luxurious. The step in height and power boards make entry easier than ANY other vehicle except maybe a minivan.
The controls are luxurious. No goofy alien 3 button shifers, turn left for park, right for drive. The screens are simple. There are hard buttons for most functions.
The ride is luxurious. I dare you to find me a car short of $100 large that actually rides better than a full size ram with the air suspension.
The cabin is luxurious. People trade in mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc. on these trucks and get inside a Laramie Limited and they frequently comment that it feels nicer inside these Rams than the car they’re trading out of.
The equipment is luxurious. You have driver assist, heads up displays, rear view camera mirrors, self parking, wonderful lighting, very customizable User interfaces, etc.
Ownership itself is luxurious. Know whats nice about your luxury vehicle being a Ford, Chevy, Toyota or a Ram? Insurance isn’t expensive. Wiper blades are in stock at Napa. You wont have to wait 5 days for a tire to be shipped to you, every local store has a set. If you were ever inclined, you can do your own maintenance, but if not, you probably have your choice of 5 or 6 different dealerships in a short driving distance to get your work done. Your resale will be MUCH better than any other mainstream luxury vehicle, save for maybe lexus.
I really dont feel like going on anymore, but you get my point: The modern high end pickup truck DESERVES to be part of anyone’s consideration if the end goal is actual luxury.
Also from Merriam Webster
“Truck”
1 : a wheeled vehicle for moving heavy articles: such as
Which by definition makes it a luxury truck
Hahahahah fair enough!
I don’t hate on anyone’s automotive choices. I may not understand them, but different stroke for different folks. As long as you drive responsibly, I don’t care what you drive. Just don’t force me to drive something I don’t want to drive.
I hate trucks because they are more likely to kill me and my family. License them separately under a more rigorous licensing standard than cars weighing half as much (or less).
I agree! If I have to have a special license to drive a semi, you should have to have one to drive a vehicle that large too. Vehicles between 10000 gvwr and 26000 gvwr are some of the worst piloted on the roads.
How about electric cars? They are heavier than regular cars.
Sure, those big-ass Hummers, Rivians, etc should be discouraged too. Small electric cars aren’t overly heavy.
Tesla 3 weighs 4000 pounds and equivalent ICE car, a Nissan Versa is 2700. An almost 50% increase is a lot. I was actually being sarcastic, I am a radical because I believe people should be able to drive whatever they want.
In what world are a Versa and a Model 3 equivalent vehicles? The Tesla is a midsize semi-luxury sedan and the Nissan is a bare bones subcompact.
Thank you! I logged in to make the same comment. You’d be surprised at how close in weight a Tesla 3 is to its ACTUAL ICE competition. Less than 10% difference.
Nissan Sentra which is of equivalent dimensions and weighs only 3000 pounds. Way more than 10% difference.
We already agreed a Versa is not comparable to a Model 3, compare a Standard Range to a BMW 330i and it’s a 50lb difference. Sure, the BMW has a lot more hardware inside such as real buttons and trim, but that doesn’t really matter to the market because people are cross-shopping them, they cost the same and have very similar perception. I agree EV’s can get really heavy as you spec them up and that’s a problem, but they’re usually packaged in safe shapes that are friendly to pedestrians and other vehicles.
Bad faith argument. Their overall length is about the same, but that’s about the same. If you aim for more of a direct comparison – similar interior volume, equipment, wheelbase, etc. the EV standard bearer is heavier, but not by that much.
Tesla 3 is 186X73X57
Sentra is 183X72X57
Those aren’t huge numbers, but they aren’t insignificant. The Tesla also has 50% more interior cargo volume.
You’re comparing the largest compact economy sedan against a pretty standard entry-luxury midsize. Compare the Model 3 against it’s actual peers, and it’s not that much heavier.
I am a radical because I believe people should be able to drive whatever they want.
I’m glad you support my desire to DD a 45 ton main battle tank around your neighborhood. I hear a used T-72 can be had pretty cheap these days.
Autotrader Kharkiv has some sweet deals. Unfortunately, most of the damage is more than cosmetic.
Nothing a Harbor Freight welder and a fire hose of cleaning solvent can’t fix.
FWIW there used to be a uber wealthy guy not too far from me who had a collection of these things:
https://www.americanheritagemuseum.org/the-museum/jacques-m-littlefield/
He sometimes did drive these things through the neighborhood. It helped the local sheriff was his buddy.
(How rich was he? He had a propeller from the Lusitania as a lawn ornament).
I hope someday to do whatever the top package is on DriveATank.com. Looks like so much fun.
Indeed.
All Teslas are not too far off from what their ICE “counterpart” weighs. My Model Y doesn’t weigh any more than a comparable midsize SUV. Even the Cybertruck is shorter than a F-150.
If they’re heavier and/or taller, they should be treated differently. However, it’s worth noting that the weight delta on EV trucks/SUVs is greater than cars. For example, a Tesla Model 3 is about 20% heavier than a Honda Accord and 10% heavier than a Cadillac CT4. Meanwhile, a Rivian R1T is 50-60% heavier than a Chevy Colorado. A Silverado EV is going to be 70% heavier than even the heaviest half ton Silverado.
I don’t have a problem with the trucks themselves, or the people who want to drive them.
The problem I have is the mental gymnastics people use to justify their choices.
I had a coworker whose husband and her both drove full size, full cab pickups. At the time she had one one year old and two dogs. She said they NEEDED the (two!) pickups because of said dogs and kid. Meanwhile my wife and I had two dogs and one one year old and our cars were (and still are) a GTI and an FRS. When I bought the FRS (before children) I didn’t say it was for gas mileage or claim it was practical. I bought it cause I wanted it. If fancy truck people just owned it I wouldn’t mind, but in my experience most don’t.
In short: drive what you want and have fun, just don’t tell me it’s because you are actually going to use the truck part of your truck because you won’t. You like pickups! That’s cool! You don’t need an excuse!
I almost typed a comment like this. It’s the people that try to explain their choice with a really weak and thinly veiled excuse like “I have to move my kid to college” or something like that I have a hard time with.
I have so much more respect for people that just say it. They’re nice, I feel more powerful driving it, it shows off my wealth… or whatever the actual reason is.
This isn’t limited to trucks. It applies to nearly every Wrangler owner I know. And also Corvette drivers (at least the ones I’ve met that buy new/nice ones).
I’ve talked to way too many people who tried to justify a purchase of a Ram TRX/Raptor whilst living in a city environment. Ever see a Raptor parallel park during rush hour in a city? It’s hilariously fun to see them getting honked at.
I want a full sized truck because I like them, I think they’re fun to drive! However, I live in a city and I don’t haul more stuff than my Forester can handle with any sort of regularity. Thus, no huge truck in my driveway. I think if I lived in a smaller town where a large vehicle would be easier to deal with I would consider it. Luxury trims aside, you can get a lot for your money with a full sized truck.
Does this apply to people with one child who insist they need a minivan? Cuz they don’t need that either. Sure, there are justifications that can be made, but NEED sure isn’t there.
There is a good argument for sliding doors with even a single kid…unless you LIKE door dings.
It’s less of a jump for a person with one kid to say they need a minivan than it is for a person to justify their truck by saying they have a kid and two dogs. Unless there’s other reasons (towing/hauling/offroading), I’d argue a half ton crew cab is WORSE for kid/dogs than most alternatives.
Luxury truck owner here. I’ll start by saying, I pretty much hate driving a full size truck. It is huge, doesn’t fit easily in parking spaces, gets horrible gas mileage, and isn’t “fun to drive”. But I need it to tow our camper. I mostly ended up with the Limited trim of the RAM 1500 because it actually didn’t have chip shortages when I bought it in 2021. I want to be as safe as I can when towing a trailer, so I went with that trim because of the air suspension, surround view cameras, adaptive cruise, and availability of a bunch of towing features (trailer reverse steering, TPMS for the trailer, blind spot monitors automatically adjust for trailer length). Options were limited for in-stock trucks during Covid. I wanted to buy used, but the 2019’s were only saving me about $2000 over buying new so it didn’t make any sense. I paid about $62k with a supplier discount and traded in my 7 year old Volt at the time for a very good number so it made the payment acceptable with a 1.75% interest rate.
I’ve only put on about 20,000 miles in 30 months, and 6,000 miles of those have been towing my camper. Because I work from home 60% of days, and drive the MG on the nice summer days and our PHEV for errands, I don’t really drive it much. It’s been a rock solid tow vehicle for our 2007 23′ Airstream. I have a weight distributing hitch with anti-sway setup and the air suspension makes it a really comfortable and stable ride when towing. It’s stressful to tow a trailer for hundreds of miles, especially through urban areas, and all the electronic gadgets, cameras, and stability help relieve that stress. The reverse steering helps a lot with confidently backing up a trailer where a small ding or tear in the aluminum exterior can cost thousands.
All that said, I didn’t feel like it was a good time to buy at the time, but I think it may have been. The same options on the 2024 model would now have an MSRP of $82k and if you factor in interest rates, the same truck would cost considerably more now. The steadily increasing prices of these trucks has made the depreciation on mine really low, but that doesn’t really matter to me. I plan to keep the truck for at least 8-10 years unless I can get a really good deal on a PHEV one in a few years.
People hate big trucks. They hate fancy big trucks because the added creature comforts encourage more people to buy big trucks, which again, the bigness is the main problem. This is not a complicated issue and it seems like you’re deliberately missing the point.
When you can’t drive your Miata/s2000/n600/TR6/Berkeley SE328 because every other vehicle on the road is a 9,000lb 15 foot tall NPC-mobile, is that really a better world for the auto enthusiast? I would argue that it isn’t.
The article wasn’t about full-size big trucks, it was just about pickup trucks. It applies to Mavericks and Frontiers and Rangers. It’s about how these vehicles, because of their historic use, are denounced when they’re too luxurious.
That said, I appreciate your passion against large trucks and SUVs and crossovers.
With almost 300 comments it does seem like a lot of people have a lot to say about the topic, but if you comb through the replies you’ll see few if any complaints lamenting the unsustainable use of beluga foreskin upholstery or petrified wood dashboards. What you will see instead are complaints about:
Headlights directly in your field of view
Not being able to see over the hood
Not being able to load into the bed
Pedestrian safety
Trucks too big to see around
Trucks making it difficult to park
The safety/size arms race
They cheat CAFE requirements and aren’t subject to the same safety requirements as passenger cars, despite the fact that most people use them as passenger cars nowadays.
I get that this isn’t what you wrote about, but these are the things that come to mind for myself when someone talks about a modern truck. And then as an afterthought I might mention that I personally think it is silly to spend so much on a vehicle that has so many negative traits already, particularly if you aren’t going to use it for “truck stuff.”
If Ford was selling Excursions at the same rate they sell F150s I think they’d get the same amount of grief. I would disagree with the premise that people dislike them because they’re luxurious though. They dislike them because they make the motoring experience worse for everyone else.
As a postscript, I’ll mention that my sister has a Maverick hybrid. She loves her “little truck” and she thinks it is a hilarious juxtaposition to park it next to a regular full-size truck. Her Maverick is the same size as Jason’s F150.
It’s true. I think it’s fair to read something, have it remind you of something else, and want to discuss that something else. Especially if that something else is such a controversial issue.
I’d love more smaller vehicles on the road, myself. Let’s bring down that Vehicle Demand Energy!
I do think these trucks have a reason to exist, as many Americans’ idea of a grand tour includes a camper, horse, boat, jet skis, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, or even a race car. And America is vast, folks spend days pulling their load at relatively high speeds, and they deserve to be in supreme comfort in the meantime.
That’s a great use case for such a vehicle. But these are a terrible fit for most other uses, and inconvenience everyone else by blocking lines of sight and posing a threat to other vehicles due to sheer size and mass, rendering perfectly safe cars less safe and effectly forcing the safety-minded consumer to buy an SUV even if they don’t need one.
I wouldn’t judge someone simply for driving a luxury truck because I don’t know their reasons, and I’m sure most are valid, or at least innocuous, but I don’t have to like the trend of their growth in both size and popularity. The basic conclusion here is yes, these trucks are good and serve a purpose, but there are too damn many of them on the road.
I like big trucks (don’t have one) and don’t care that they are available in luxury trims, but man I sure hate them everyday in the downtown parking garage. They are particularly bad commuter vehicles for all of the commuters around them.
and they deserve to be in supreme comfort in the meantime.
Do they? Why?
I’ll admit that statement is only accurate if applied in relativity. My intention was to say a truck is no less deserving of comfort than any other vehicle, if a Mercedes-Benz can cruise coast to coast without causing your joints to ache or your back to sweat, there’s no reason your camper hauler couldn’t do the same.
Whether people who can afford expensive things deserve them was wholly ignored in consideration of that sentence, as my personal beliefs may be considered a tad extreme and not particularly relevant or helpful to the argument at hand.
I don’t have a problem with them existing. However I do have a problem with each generation of truck having a higher belt/hoodline, longer wheelbase/length, and more obnoxious exhaust. The modern day truck is a moving wall of death for any pedestrians and they’re just clown shoe sized in any normal parking lot. It’s not uncommon to see a F150 in a parking lot with the entire front end sticking out anymore, and that’s before we get into the fact they can’t see anything smaller than a house in their mirrors. Oh and I very much do have a problem with people using a F150 as a daily driver when they’ll never use it for towing or moving.
The other day at the grocery store I was walking from my Bolt, which I parked in the back of the lot so I could pull through, to the store. I saw a bigly lifted Gladiator parked at a 15-degree angle to the parking spot. I said to myself “I guess it’s hard to park that thing”, and as it turned out the driver was walking just in front of my and turned around shamefacedly saying “Yeah…”
Seeing your username makes me think about this 1 question. Did the lifted gladiator have big chunky mud tires on in the middle of a PA winter?
Nah they were faux-chunky rubber bands.
Andddd that makes it even worse.
I agree with you completely. I drive a 389 long nose Pete semi, and I can tell you that visibility out of it is better than my boss’s f250. Which is really weird and sad. If I had to drive a pickup truck regularly, I’d bolt a school bus mirror to the fender just to see a bit better.
I drove the new TRD Tundra before in a city environment and absolutely hated it. It was too big in every dimension, and the design of the hood made it impossible to judge where the front was unless you had a camera.
Exactly. These new pickups leave me feeling blind and claustrophobic. Everyone knows semis have blind spots, but jump in one and you will be surprised how much better you can see out of one compared to a pickup.
At least semis have a sloping hoodline so you know where it ends. Heck its easier to judge where the front of an AMG GT is, than it is to judge a truck and you sit on the rear axle in the AMG!
You are right. Now my truck has the massive hood where the hood ornament is 6 foot high and 10 foot in front of me. But I can still see better because I have a bubble mirror on the hood that lets me see the ground and everything to the right. I can see the ground around my truck in every direction except straight behind my trailer. Now modern pickups need a expensive camera rig to do the same thing. I spent $70 bucks, and it sticks up where a tiny twitch of my eyes catches it.
How long should we make this comment thread before we just shake hands lol. We’re just going to keep agreeing with each other.
Yup. Great minds think alike
I remember driving trucks that were very basic back 50 years ago. The gas tank was behind the (only) seat, they had drum brakes that would barely stop the truck when it had no load, the heater was a cruel joke, and they were tough to start on a cold day. You could steal the 66 Chevy with a foil gum wrapper. The trim on the 80’s GMC started falling off a couple months after it was sold. There was no back seat, so your wet tools were likely to be stolen anytime.
I say, if the boss wants to have a fancy truck, good for him.
I have a modern mid spec truck. When I arrive at the job, it’s safer and I’m not beat up from keeping it between the ditches and the ear splitting din of the old tin trucks with no headliner and rubber mats on the floor.
GM/Ford/Stellantis as happy to make bank on pickups with high margins. On the very back of people who love them.
If, on one hand, the Detroit-trio would focus those profits on a continuation of projects which fight the stereotype, maybe I could forgive. But when GM, for example, decides to electrify its future with a Hummer and remove itself from the European market, rather than look at the incoming competition from China/India/Japan – perhaps the incoming mass of SAIC (incl. MG), Geely, Great Wall, BYD, and others might bring about another sad shift in Detroit’s fortunes.
It’s as though the Detroit-3 look to wide Michigan roads and figure that everyone needs to navigate potholes, doesn’t need to turn left (michigan-left), and easily fits in their oversized 6-wide lanes. In the Detroit suburbs: parking is ample, roads are wide, and maintenance is near-non-existent.
I do think some of the frustration also comes from dealing with pickups parking in places not built to accommodate them. This issue isn’t luxury pickups, but a problem of vehicle size and parking space size. If you have a crew cab long bed pickup that you drive into the city and park in a structure not designed to accommodate it, you cause problems for people navigating that structure. Conversely, if you have built a structure that doesn’t accommodate the popular vehicles in your area, you are inviting problems.
I think people sometimes assume any pickup being used as a commuter vehicle or driven in city areas is a luxury pickup, which is not the case. But that perception drives the anger toward luxury pickups.
Why should everybody/society bear the cost of an individual’s spurious choice? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting we tell people what they should drive or even make them prove a need. Adjusting infrastructure to suit larger vehicles adds cost. It reduces the capacity of finite parking areas, increases congestion, increases wear on infrastructure, and makes the roads less safe for other motorists and pedestrians.
You’re right, but the parking structure owners aren’t preventing these large vehicles from using the service, so they need to do something. If it’s a ban on larger vehicles, fine. If it’s restricting them to certain levels they revamp to accommodate them, fine. But letting a pickup take up two spots and half the driving lane makes the structure less effective and less safe.
Sure, people choosing smaller vehicles when possible would be nice. But there is a responsibility to ensure you can accommodate the vehicles you allow to use your parking, too. I think there is a compromise. A parking garage could easily decide that they can adjust to accommodate the increased width of vehicles and ban long vehicles because of problems with the driving lane. But they’d also have to enforce it, and they prefer to make money with as few personnel as possible.
But, yeah, I did engage in some weird both sides stuff here. They don’t need to accommodate larger vehicles as much as they need to ensure those using the facility are of appropriate size.
You see this all the time in parking garages, usually based on height or weight, because footprint is not as readily measured in most cases.
I think your focus on parking garages/private parking is a little myopic. Someone in a big truck taking up three parking spaces is an annoyance we’ve all dealt with, but it’s relatively small potatoes within the framework you’re suggesting. That vehicle will also take up more space on the road and contribute more to congestion. It will block other motorists’ sight lines. It will cause more wear on the public roads. In the event of an accident, it’s going to cause more damage to other cars and pedestrians. It would be nice if the parking garage owner would better accommodate or prohibit the large vehicle for everyone’s convenience, but on the way to the parking garage, there are a lot of costs society is being asked to assume for that one person’s choice.
Yeah, absolutely. But I was specifically talking about how the parking garage experience might color people’s thoughts on luxury pickups. I think that the pickup in the parking garage is usually getting mentally filed under “luxury pickup” in a way that increases the anger at the luxury, rather than just the size of the vehicle and the problems it poses.
I’m personally for extra licensing and extra taxes on large vehicles. But my comment was about how people see a problem with luxury pickups while ignoring it on other offenders. Personally, I don’t have any problem with luxury, but I do have a problem with full-size pickups being a default, especially without requiring people to prove that they can competently handle them. I should not be able to pass a driving test in a Miata, then go buy and drive an F350 without any additional testing/licensing.
I deal with this every weekday at the downtown parking garage I use for work. There is seemingly more full size pickups in there everyday and they’ve broken the system. Two cars cannot pass, we have to go one at a time to drive around the trucks sticking out in lane. They can fit in the spaces width-wise, but barely, making neighboring spaces often unusable if you plan on exiting your vehicle after you park. God forbid one parks next to you, you’ll be reversing out of your spot on a wing and a prayer because you can’t see if there is any oncoming traffic. I’ve written to the management company of the garage suggesting they limit full size truck parking to the upper levels, but I received no response. I’m sure it’s not something they want to/can police.
Yep, that would cost money, both in enforcement and lost revenue, and these garages find it easier just to put up signs saying that you assume all the risk parking there and hope no one sues and proves they have any responsibility to ensure that it functions as intended. Generally speaking, it’s a pretty solid bet.
I don’t particularly care about the luxury version of trucks existing. There are the societal problems these trucks pose in that they have gotten way too big and tall. Their fuel mileage suck as well. That being set aside my issue is I don’t really see them as luxury vehicles even at these trim levels. The “tech” and materials inside just don’t scream luxury to me. I’ve sat in GMC Denali Ultimates and Ford Platinums and Ram Limited’s but they are still full of the same plastic surfaces and the same feeling leather you’d get in a lower trim. I think the Ultimate might actually have some real wood in them though. These trucks have the same interior layouts. The same infotainment with maybe included navigation that no one ever wants because it sucks. The 360 camera’s are in lower trims as well as a lot of the safety tech. Some exclusive paint colors, way too big of wheel options, some more speakers, and screens in the passenger dashboard aren’t enough. I’m sure someone will correct me that these trim levels have something “super exclusive” but I really doubt whatever that might be is worth it either. Long winded way to say I just don’t see the value in these trim levels but I’ll never buy one new anyway. I’m clearly not who these are marketed for. I’ve never looked so I don’t know if anyone has actually sought this information out but I would love to see the margins on these trucks because they have got to be absolutely huge.
You could maybe convince me of the TRX/Raptor/ZR2/Bison/AEV trim level pricing since those get meaningful mechanical upgrades though.
Since this appears to be asked in good faith, I’ll answer from my perspective as a King Ranch owner.
Things I wanted and was willing to pay for that weren’t available or were just as expensive in lower trims:
-High quality leather. When I spend 16 hours in the saddle towing, I want to be comfortable. The KR leather is better than the Lariat.
-Heated and cooled seats + heated wheel. Ditto.
-Better quality sound system – I like to listen to music and base audio systems in trucks are often quite bad.
-Blind spot monitoring while towing.
-LED headlights. Much brighter and clearer at night. This was a safety concern for me.
I’ve already owned it for 5 years and plan to keep this truck for at least another decade. Paying more upfront for something nice that I will keep for a long time makes sense.
I’d add that the hitch guidance/cameras on higher trims is a desirable feature to me. But I’m with you on spending more for something you’re going to feel more comfortable in for longer.
That’s a good one too. I honestly couldn’t remember if you could get that on lower trims when I bought mine.