Auto show planners realized long ago that their futures were hazy and decided, almost en masse, to rebrand as “mobility shows.” This is the most annoying kind of mostly meaningless buzzword-marketing. This year’s Japan Mobility Show is sort of the rebranded Tokyo Motor Show and, given how lost Japanese automakers have felt lately, it should have been the worst one. It is not. It rules. WE’RE SO BACK.
The “It’s SO over/we’re SO back” meme format is, admittedly, glib and dumb. It’s a symptom of a world that gets constant gratification/disappointment from raw, instantaneous data via social media and gives that data extreme binary significance. It’s also fun and kinda works here so I’m going to go with it (also, credit to Road & Track editor Fred Smith, who beat me to it last night). [Ed Note: I have no idea what Matt’s talking about, but he has a young child, so I guess he’s “with it” and I’m stuck in the ’90s].
This morning’s Dump will also feature some news from the GM-Honda alliance, which I think fits in the larger story. I’d be remiss if I didn’t also include a strike update that maybe better explains exactly what GM’s battery promises are. Finally, we’ll round it out with some VinFast updates.
Japan Gets Its Swagger Back
Japan’s auto industry has suffered greatly from external pressures (the ascendancy of Chinese automakers and the pandemic) as well as internal ones (no real plans for EVs, unnecessary executive drama, and average products). The mojo, as they say, has been lost.
Or has it? It’s extremely simplistic and convenient, rhetorically, to take separate companies with different goals and histories and combine them all into one monolithic thing united only by geography. It’s also probably accurate here. Japanese automakers are largely conservative, usually have a clear idea of what other brands are doing, and are fast to follow.
It’s been a sad reality that the Japanese auto industry hasn’t had the juice for years. Sure, they make good cars. A lot of good cars. And they sell in large numbers. The excitement, though, has felt lacking recently. Long gone were the bubble days when the Tokyo Motor Show was just banger after banger. Weird trucks. Crazy sports cars. Tiny cars we’d never get. It was fun.
The aging GT-R, the BMW-based Supra, and the great-but-ignored Acura NSX are all clear examples of the industry’s modern juice deficit. Korea has the juice. China has the juice. Sweden, even, has the juice [Ed Note: Sweden? -DT]. Japan, though, has no juice.
There were signs this was changing. The 2023 Toyota Prius was a surprise hit from the LA Auto Show. The same could be said of the 2024 Toyota Tacoma and new Toyota Landcruiser. So, at least, Toyota understood what was wrong.
Today’s Japan Mobility Show indicates the rest of the country’s automakers also are starting to get it. Seriously, it’s like a kindergartener’s birthday. Unlimited juice! This party is off the hook.
I wrote about the electric Honda Prelude Concept and how refreshing it was to see an attractive, production-intent design from a company whose EVs are mostly going to be warmed over GM products for the near future. Nissan has a wild EV Nissan GT-R-ish concept that feels like something it’s going to build. Mazda, too, surprised everyone with a sports car.
Even Lexus has the above LF-ZC, one of the brand’s next-gen BEV concepts meant to become a car you can actually buy in 2026. All the brands are getting in on the action.
Honestly, I underestimated the Japan Mobility Show and as a punishment, we’re going to spend the rest of the day writing about some of these great cars. Buckle up.
GM and Honda Ditch Plan To Co-Develop Cheap Electric Cars
The extreme walk-back of electric vehicle plans from GM continues with Honda and GM announcing an end to their $5 billion plan to try and beat Tesla with cheaper, co-developed EVs.
Here’s how Reuters explains it:
GM CEO Mary Barra said on Tuesday during an earnings conference call that the U.S. automaker was shifting its EV push from efforts in the entry-level segments, that included a $5 billion commitment over the next several years to GM’s Bolt EV. A spokesperson confirmed she was referring to the Honda EV partnership.
The two firms agreed in April last year to develop a series of lower-priced EVs based on a new joint platform, producing potentially millions of cars from 2027.
The automakers had said the deal was for “affordable” EVs, including compact crossover vehicles, built using GM’s Ultium battery technology.
Ouch. Also, this seems entirely backward. GM had such a great concept with the Bolt and nearly walked away from it, and instead seems to be shifting towards more luxury/expensive electric vehicles I guess? It is classic GM to have a good idea and abandon it right as it seems like it could work.
Honda and GM will still partner on some EVs as they’re knee-deep in a partnership already. The deal for autonomous vehicles in Japan to be produced with Honda also will continue, although the Cruise brand took a hit yesterday.
Honestly, given where GM is going, this might be good for Honda. Perhaps it can do it better on its own.
GM Explains How The UAW Battery Plant Deal Works
Also in yesterday’s news-filled earnings call, GM CEO Mary Barra sort of explained how the company’s proposed deal with the UAW over future (and one current) battery plants would work.
Per The Detroit News:
Barra said Ultium leadership is negotiating with the UAW to have its own agreement but GM “did put an offer on the table that would put Ultium Cells under the scope of the master agreement.”
She added: “We believed at the time that it would allow for, which it must have, benchmark economics and also operating flexibility because the battery cell plant is very different than some of the traditional operations … at this point, that offer remains open but the focus is on Ultium getting their own agreement.”
And how did the union respond? Also from that report:
UAW President Shawn Fain joined members on Monday to walk to the picket line after the strike expansion.
While there, he was asked by reporters where the battery plant issue stands and said: “It’s dead in the water.”
Great. The UAW also expanded its strike to GM’s profitable Escalade factory.
VinFast Quickly Switches To Dealership Model
It’s hard to get someone to buy a car they haven’t driven. It’s even harder to get people to buy a car they’ve never heard of. Tesla had the advantage of being a first-mover and gained a ton of early adopters who were also great advocates for the brand.
The launch of Vietnamese automaker VinFast’s VF8 was an utter disaster. The cars were not ready. They might be ready now and, rather than try to sell only direct-to-consumer, VinFast has shifted towards a more hybrid approach that also includes 27 dealers across the country according to a regulatory filing picked up by Automotive News:
The current batch of interested retailers have locations in Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Virginia, Louisiana, New Jersey and Arkansas, among others, VinFast said. It did not identify the prospective dealers.
Duke Hale, an auto industry veteran who is working as an adviser to VinFast, told Automotive News on Tuesday that the 27 dealers represent just the first wave of prospective VinFast retailers who have submitted applications for open sales points.
“There will probably be three or four phases,” Hale said. “You can’t just wave a magic wand and put in a hundred dealers. The paperwork, the state filings, all that stuff, it’s going to take some time.”
First, Duke Hale is a great name for an automotive industry veteran. Second, this makes a lot of sense to me. Get some cars on lots. Let people poke at them. Give consumers a sense that if something goes wrong there’s someone they can talk to nearby.
The Big Question
What’s the best Japanese concept car ever to come out of Japan? What’s the all-timer? Another question: Which automakers do you think has their “mojo” (i.e. they build exciting stuff) fully intact, and who’s lost it?
Sweden, even, has the juice [Ed Note: Sweden? -DT].
I think it’s pretty clear to me at least, that Polestar has the juice.
I’ve been saying this! I might be feeding into the hype too much, but with Toyota’s lineup of the GR cars, they’re really bringing the old sports spirit back. There are way too many amazing and fascinating japanese concepts, but the first one that pops into my mind is the fabled SVX shooting brake, the Amadeus. It’s wheels were funnily enough sold on yahoo I think, even though it’s presumed to be crushed.
“Japan Gets Its Swagger Back”That still remains to be seen. I think the shift to BEVs has really thrown the Japanese automakers for a loop… especially given how quickly BEV market share has risen.
Once they start releasing some serious high-volume BEVs, then we can decide whether they truly got their swagger back.
“GM and Honda Ditch Plan To Co-Develop Cheap Electric Cars”
Since selling off Opel, does GM sell any truly small cars in volume anywhere the way Honda does? Not to my knowledge. So it would likely make more sense for Honda to partner up with some other company that does or would like to… such as Mazda.
For its Kei Cars, Mazda currently has to rely on Suzuki. So maybe a partnership with Mazda and Suzuki might make sense. Nissan might be a good partner as well since the electric Kei car they came up with doesn’t look all that impressive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Sakura
“Since selling off Opel, does GM sell any truly small cars in volume anywhere the way Honda does?”
Yep, China, Wuling and Boajun brands.
What’s the best Japanese concept car ever to come out of Japan?
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mazda-furai-the-rotary-powered-concept-that-never-crashed-but-unfortunately-burned-223304.html
As much as I criticize Toyota for their EV and hydrogen “efforts”, I think their mojo is quietly intact. Their biggest problem is not shouting from the rooftops that their Prime vehicles are so popular as to be unobtainium, which may be happening in part because PHEVs have up until recently been the red-headed stepchild of the auto industry (which is a shame). They finally put a manual in the Supra. The new Tacoma will likely continue to sell and hold value like crazy. Sure, the Bees Forks was an embarrassment, but that doesn’t diminish the quality of the rest of their lineup.
What Swedish car company has the juice? Koenigsegg? Or are we considering Volvo Swedish still?
Yeah, the Japanese are better at weathering the storm because they actually think long term.
Honda can teach GM everything, but GM will still learn absolutely nothing. See also: NUMMI/Toyota.
The easiest thing to do is just say Ultium is Honda or make Ultium part of Honda rather than GM, and thus not subject to UAW shit.
We need more cars that are actually affordable.
Mojo? Chrysler. They only really do one thing now, but I hear they still do that minivan pretty well 😀
I’m pretty sure there are people commenting on this site who weren’t even born when Chrysler lost its mojo.
I think I laughed way harder at this than it even deserved, funny as it is. It really struck a funny bone for some reason. Well said good sir. Well said.
Do we put the mojo loss before of after the k-car?
No way, Chrysler in the 90s-early 00s was putting out banger after banger (Viper, ’94 Ram, 1st gen Grand Cherokee, cab forward cars, Prowler, PT Cruiser, 300C). Whether or not you liked these cars, they were no doubt trend-setting and/or cool.
They lost some mojo in the Cerebus years, and more in the “everything good must go to Alfa” phase, but I won’t hear an unkind word about Chrysler’s mojo post K car.
Honestly, the slow death of Chrysler, and perhaps now Dodge, has been sad to watch. I got in to cars as a teenager at the height of the Tuner era, a couple years before the first Fast and Furious film came out. So my start was rice burning. It took me years to grow to appreciate domestic cars. But once I had learned to love them, I really took to Mopar. They are my favorite domestic group. Although, even before I was in to cars, the Prowler was freaking sweet.
I really hope someone finds a way to inject some life in to Chrysler. I love AWD V8 300s, but even I have to admit they seem a little long in the tooth.
After.I’d say Chrysler got some mojo back in the early to mid-90s with the Viper, the “cab-forward cars” and their excellent 90’s concepts. Daimler siphoned some off during the “partnership of equals” era and Blackstone sold the rest of it off in the late aughts.
It depends… I’d say that Chrysler lost and got back its mojo more than once over the years.
The first time they lost their mojo was in the 1930s with the Airflow. But they got it back in the late 1930s and WWIi by producing a lot of trucks and had their Mojo intact through the 1950s.
Then they lost it again for a bit in the early 1960s with designs like this:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/1962_Dodge_Dart_%2814512906133%29.jpg/280px-1962_Dodge_Dart_%2814512906133%29.jpg
But they got it back by the mid 1960s.
Then after 1973, Chrysler really seemed to lose its mojo again and didn’t get it back until the early to mid 1980s.
Then they lost their mojo for a bit after the American Motors acquisition as management digested that purchase
But by around 1992, they had their mojo back again… until Bob Eaton fucked it all up and sold out to Daimler-Benz.
Then the Chrysler side of DCX seemed to get its mojo back with the help of Dr. Z and the release of the LX cars, the modern Hemi and other products… only to lose it again when Chrysler was divested to Ceribus.
Then they seemed to get their mojo back again after the Fiat merger and they became FCA.
But then in the late 2010s, they started to slowly lose their mojo again as Chrysler and Dodge were starved for product because Mergio Sargionne didn’t want spend money because Exor was pushing him to sell out the company.
At the moment, Chrysler doesn’t have its mojo. HOWEVER, under Stellantis, Dodge finally got a new product (the Hornet – in spite of the hissyfit those running Alfa Romeo threw). And if they get great BEV replacements for the LX/LC vehicles, they may very well have their mojo back in a few years.
First, let me say that that Nissan Hyper Force thing in the lead image is revolting. Put it next to the lovely Mazda Iconic SP concept for comparison.
As far as mojo goes, Mazda is definitely up there now. Great styling across the line, the new straight-six engine, and a genuine sense of the relationship between car and driver. Genesis have developed a line of desirable and attractive vehicles over the last couple of years that no longer require the buyer to make any excuses for choosing one.
I’d say that BMW is at its mojo nadir right now. So-so reliability, awful styling and nothing that makes them particularly special. Hopefully the Neue Klasse can turn it around for them.
I agree with all the above, and I would add that the relatives of Genesis belong on this list of good mojo as well. Hyundai/Kia are building good looking vehicles with some potent options on the table.
What? No love for a factory original Bosozoku car?
I think the fun of Bosozuku is getting to ruin the car in your own special way, as opposed to buying it pre-ruined from Nissan.
Shouldn’t that be “mogo” if we’re talking about cars? Whatever. Right now it’s Hyundai/Kia.
From the perspective of styling alone, I feel VW lurches in and out of decent looking vehicles every generation. One generation will be understated and grown up and the next will have to have goofy headlight and tailight shapes and ‘who thought that was a good idea?‘ styling elements. The id4 is an example of losing the script.
At threat of sounding like a fanboy, I fully believe that Mazda currently has its mojo fully in tact, albeit because it has to for its survival. They’re significantly smaller than Honda, Toyota, Nissan and even Subaru, so they have to focus on key areas of their cars to stand out, and it shows. Their engine lineup until the new I6 was 3 flavors of I4 and a 6 speed auto or manual, but their cars drive great, are well appointed, and look exceptional for the money, and obviously they have the Miata, a car no other company dares to build, and yet still has a ravenous fanbase. While we can all argue about whether a no-touch infotainment system is good or bad (its excellent and I will die on this hill) Mazda seems to have one of the most cohesive and clear brand images at the moment, and their push up-market may be driving up prices slowly, but it shows their confidence in their products.
On the opposite end of the spectrum is Nissan, but more importantly Infiniti, which has probably THE most stale, overpriced (at MSRP, nobody pays MSRP though), outdated and derivative lineup in the entire car market these days. Seriously, Google the Q50 interior, its a 50k luxury sedan with an interior on par with a 9k, 100k mile 2014 Accord. Its sad, especially when looking back just 15 years to their glory years when their lineup was truly compelling.
Oh Mazda has the sauce right now, for sure. The CX90 has been a huge hit, the Miata is a perfect automobile (always has been, always will be) and the CX50 is really popular as well. Their push upmarket as a lower priced luxury alternative was really smart and they have always catered to enthusiasts regardless of how their lineup changes.
I’ve told my wife we’re buying a CX50, CX70, or CX90 as her next car and she’s all for it. But what I’m REALLY excited about are the rumors that they’re developing a RWD based sedan on the CX90’s platform that will use the same powertrains. On paper it would essentially be a more affordable M340i and I would literally buy one tomorrow if it’s priced in the same general vicinity as the CX90.
I have to say I’m super impressed that Mazda has been smart enough to just fluff the miata here and there, but to leave the foundations alone for so many years. Most manufacturers get caught up in somehow outdoing themselves, and they ruin things. Mazda has managed to avoid that with the Miata.
It’s the same thing every time. Tiny, light, merely adequate power, roof that goes down, manual transmission, and steering/handling that make the car feel like it’s on rails. It’s literally the perfect weekend car and it has been for over 30 years.
Hell, even decades before that the Brits had the formula figured out too. It’s pretty much the most universally appreciated driving experience, and for good reason.
misread.
All good!
Nissan that was so great, they could only build one. The holiest of holy, Nissan R390 GT1. It was the pinnacle of the peak of JDM. It’s perfect. I sometimes weep to its portrait. What have the French done to my boy?!
In the words of the great urban poet Gucci Mane, if you ain’t got no sauce, you’re lost. But you can also get lost in the sauce.
I’m going substitute sauce for mojo. Anyway, the obvious answer would be Hyundai/Kia/Genesis but until they get some of their egregious quality problems under control I don’t feel like they’re a great answer. Between their early and successful push into EVs, the N division, the fact that they more or less redefined the family hauler category with the Palluride twins, and the Genesis line growing, they’re doing cool shit.
But guess what? People don’t give a shit when a bunch of your cars can be stolen by idiot teenagers with a USB cable. So I think my next answer would be Volvo. They’ve really got the sauce right now between their elegant designs, excellent PHEV powertrains, and full BEVs. I think the upcoming EX30 is going to be a game changer as well.
Came in here to say the same thing. I think Hyundai/Kia/Genesis make interesting and desirable cars, but I won’t buy any because the corporate culture, quality control, and dealer network seem to be utter shit.
I definitely get it. I love my N and it’s been totally problem free through 10,000 miles and some hard driving/track days but even I have to acknowledge that the brand still has serious issues that they needed to get under control yesterday.
I will say that if quality were the only issue (real or perceived), it would not dissuade me. I’d rather drive something that interests me, rather than — well, a Toyota.
But what has really turned me off is the corporate response to the Kia ignition lockout fiasco, and importantly the Scrooge-like decision to manufacture cars without the lockout feature in the first place. And then to blame the problem on social media. They found themselves in a hole and decided the best course of action was to grab a shovel.
Not to mention the using child labor in their factories issue they have.
As far as Japanese concept cars go, I’m partial to both the Suzuki Hayabusa Sport and the Daihatsu UFE-III.
The former was 1200 lbs and powered by a Hayabusa engine. The latter had a 0.168 drag coefficient, weighed 980 lbs, and got 170 mpg. Can’t go wrong with either.
That Daihatsu looks like a squashed 1st gen Insight.
Yes. And significantly more aero. Now imagine if THAT had a Hayabusa engine, a 6-speed manual transmission, and was RWD. It would probably match or exceed the Insight’s fuel economy, still be able to rip off 12 second 1/4 miles when you need it to, and could be geared to top 200 mph…
Maybe I am in the minority, and I am interested to hear if I am, but I find the stuff Nissan is showing to be absolutely hideous. The Hyperforce looks like it was (poorly) carved out of foam packing materials, and that van that Thomas was so excited about last week looks even worse to me. I’m not trying to criticize anyone else’s taste if they like it, I just don’t get it at all.
Same designer as the cybertruck? They all look inspired by it at least, and that’s pretty insulting if you ask me.
The Suzuki Kizashi concept was great:
https://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2008/03/24-suzuki-concept-kizashi/
I feel like it should be telling me how darkness isn’t really my ally. That I merely adopted the dark. And that the Kizashi was born in it, molded by it. That it didn’t see the light until it was already a car, by then the light was blinding to it.
Using your definition of mojo it’s really hard to say who might have their mojo in full operational status. Nothing is all that terribly exciting.
I would say Porsche since they are one to state they will always have driving dynamics and sporty intentions as part of their company ethos (and I am completely biased in my fandom and owner/lover of my 981 Boxster).
However, there’s only so many variants of the 911 that can hold my interest. I love that they make such niche vehicles but I’d love to see more models that cater to niche needs, especially at the ~$50-75K end of the market rather than the $150K and above market.
So, overall I think they are some doing great things and we are all spoiled. The cars today are good and so many exciting things are taken for granted.
In hindsight, I’ll say my comment is dumb and I want way too much. I nominate Porsche as having all the mojo.
the most interesting thing from Japanese companies for me right now is the Motocompacto that is said will be sold at Honda and Acura car dealerships for $995.
Mojo is seemingly on the way out for Chrysler/Dodge for sure. perhaps the ICE/BEV Charger replacement will save them, but the Hornet will not. Lack of a Big SUV, or even Pacifica replacement will also be a big problem for them.
I’m beginning to wonder if Stellantis is in legitimate trouble. I’ve been seeing Jeep advertisements lately touting 10% off on several models. For them to becoming straight from the manufacturer seems like they’re in panic mode to me, and their massive inventories/fact that their offerings aren’t really competitive outside of the Grand Cherokee sure adds fuel to the fire.
Chrysler has all of two vehicles and one of them is about to die/isn’t really relevant outside of the rental fleet and mid level drug dealer markets. The US still isn’t interested in Alfas, and Dodge is good and fucked. Like, completely fucked. It’s bad.
The Tonale/Hornet was a Hail Mary that doesn’t look like it’s going to pay off. The cars aren’t getting great reviews and aren’t selling well. Outside of that car, what does Dodge have?
Right now? V8s BROTHERRRRRR HELL YEAH! The Mopar or no car folks are some of the most loyal in the entire industry, but unfortunately the Hemis are dying due to tightening regulations. It’s a damn shame because like every enthusiast I’ll always appreciate a big V8 that allows me to return to monke on demand, but based on what I’ve been reading the hardcore Mopar folks are PISSED right now.
Every article about the fact that the new Challenger/Charger (I forget what they’re calling it) is going to offer a Hurricane 6 is splattered with NO V8 NO DICE comments. The V8s are also the only selling point of the Durango. It’s a pretty objectively mid car at best, but the fact that you’ve been able to get all the Hemis in it has more or less kept it relevant.
Like I said, it’s a shame and I don’t think Dodge will survive. But unfortunately they made their bed. They said “to hell with climate change and regulations” and rode the V8 as far as it would go. It led to a lot of short term sales but it’s made their future volatile. What really sucks is that if they’d developed some hybrid and/or EV technology in the last 5-10 years they could keep offering V8s like Ford and GM do because their CAFE numbers would be better.
But alas, here we are. Anyway, I think Stellantis is in big trouble…and I’m not entirely sure how or why any corporate conglomerate would look at the corpse of FCA and say “hell yeah we want in on THIS!”. Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
One word, Ram.
(and Jeep to a lesser extent, although obviously outside their core Wrangler and GC models it’s been rough lately)
I feel like the Jeep brand is in the same place as Harley Davidson, although a few years behind it. No real innovations happening and just riding the reputation for their fanbase.
The problem is, they believed too much in their infallibility when it comes to the “it’s a Jeep thing” crowd and they priced themselves out of reach for those that have a desire for one.
Now they have an aging lineup with nothing new to offer so people that want it may as well buy used.
If you need something good off-road you might still be looking to Jeep but how many people really need that? The Bronco Sport is a better option to the Jeep Renegade or Compass or whatever they’re trying to pass off as a regular car with Jeep pretensions.
Not a bike guy, so I don’t know much about HD, but I don’t think Jeep’s problems are insurmountable.
The Wrangler and GC are good and popular products, the Wagoneer and GW are fine but just need a price cut, the Gladiator is OK if a bit stale, and the small stuff probably becomes class competitive with an upgrade, or gets discontinued.
I think the Jeep name appeals to a much wider cross section of people (young and old, rich and poor, male and female) than Harley, which seems rather locked into an aging male demographic. I doubt very much you’d see a middle aged father and his college aged daughter both riding Harleys, but I could easily see them both driving Wranglers (while Mom has a GC or GW). To me, that means the brand is still salvageable, whether by the current Stellantis company, or someone else who is more competent.
You make some fair points about Jeep. I am surprised that the Gladiator didn’t have more staying power, but I think they might be priced a little too high. Which is a growing problem for Wranglers as well from what I understand.
I really do think that Jeep would do much better giving up their current smaller suv lineup and going all in on a baby wrangler, Jimny style. That would give them something in a lower price point, but still potentially capable of carrying all that offroader cache that is so important to much of what they build. For some reason, GC sells well without the full offroader vibe, but that doesn’t seem to translate to smaller vehicles from Jeep.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
A wrangler offers something that no other car, except the real bronco, does-removable top and doors. It’s an experience that a normal convertible just can’t match. I’d wager a large portion of wrangler sales are people who genuinely like cruising with the top down in the summer (even if their usually too lazy to do it) and those sales will always be there. The pristine $60k rubicons and 35s are hopefully a fad that’ll die down though, and I can’t think of much reason to shop one of their other cars.
Harley is in a different spot-their only selling points were biker image and great chrome/paint. The only problem is other manufacturers (see Triumph and Ducati) make bikes that look just as good, perform much better, and are typically cheaper than what Harley offers. Also, that hells angles image is a bit cringeworthy for anyone born after 1985. There was a light at the end of the tunnel but the new CEO made it clear they’re gonna ride that easy rider vibe straight to the nursing home.
Harley is coming back a bit. they have finally made a sportster that deserves the name, they have a pretty killer Dual Sport, and even the luxo barges are still old school enough for many who want one to look at them and still have interest.
They still make some interesting bikes, it’s just hard to look a $20k low rider s or base street glide and not consider all of the cool stuff coming out of Europe these days. The PanAm/sportster had potential but those were almost out the door before the new regime took over. The new CEO (last I heard) said the plan was to focus on low volumes of high margin, traditional bikes.
This part is entirely subjective, and I say this as someone who owned a 2006 1200c and would love to have it back, but damn the new sportster is ugly. It’s a shame considering how well triumph did transitioning the bonnevilles to water cooling. The bronx would have been pretty sweet but was canceled.
If someone wants a new car they’re spending what, $25k minimum these days, with a average price near $50k? A wrangler four door starts at $36k, which isn’t much of a premium to have a cool car. No one needs a motorcycle, unless they live in California and commute full time, in which case there are perfectly reasonable (and usually better) alternatives for 1/2 the price. I think they’re going to take a beating now. Retirees can’t drop $30k for a road glide after what the past 2 years have done to their 401k, and stunt bros can’t swing 10+% apr on a new softail.
I think the more likely comparison for the sportster is also sort of american, the Indian FTR1200 eats the old pushrod air cooled sporty motors lunch, even with Buell bits.
if they drop the pan-america, that will be a drastic mistake.
You’re right, but it’s not about need, it’s about want. Something about off-roaders just resonates with normies for some reason. You could pick out any rando off the street and they can tell you what a Jeep, Hummer, or G Wagon is. The odds of them knowing what a Toyobaru, S2000, or 718 are are way, way lower.
Off-roaders are aspirational cars for them even if they’ll only be mall crawlers. I don’t get it and never will, but I’m an enthusiast who’s always owned hot hatches so me getting it doesn’t matter. The Bronco Sport is literally perfect for 99% of the people who buy Wranglers, regular Broncos, etc. and there’s a reason Ford is selling a gajillion of them.
I think the market can use more soft roaders, and manufacturers are more than happy to provide. I’d venture a guess that half of the new Subarus I see around are the Wilderness editions. And honestly, I’d much rather Katie from HR or John from marketing drive around town in a 3500 pound lifted wagon or cute ute then be wreaking havoc in a 5,000 pound off road behemoth that will never see more than a gravel driveway.
I hope, but realize it is fruitless, that Jeep will realize they cannot slap a name on subpar european boxes and forever survive on name alone. I objectively think the old Journey was better than either the Renegade or Compass. hell I even thing that half ass minivan abomination is/was better than the Hornet. But i digress. Sad too, the renegade was kind of attractive in a squinty Scout kind of way. I could have backed a simple rugged Jimny Type Jeep Renegade. Hell they could have put the body on a roxor and let that company keep the CJ3 face and again I would have probably wanted a small diesel side by side that could be driven legally on all road year round.
Can they just fold Ram back into Dodge again? “Dodge Ram” was so much better than “Ram X500”
At this point I think that would just be tying an anchor to Ram.
I predict the Dodge brand is not long for this world.
It better last long enough for me to get behind the wheel of one of those new straight 6 powered Challengers. While the Mopar or no car crowd has already shunned them I have a sneaking suspicion that Dodge is accidentally going to make an excellent European sports car. That won’t matter to their main demographic but for someone like me who grew up around BMWs and Audis it sounds mighty appealing.
Much as I am a V8 Muscle Mopar fan, I’m also excited to see the new I6 thing they are building. I find myself ok with the concept because in my head its just a new “leaning tower of power” and there is real history for Mopar behind that idea.
People also seem to conveniently ignore the fact that the Grand National is a muscle car icon despite having a V6. Listen…I love V8s too but I’m not going to shun a car based on its engine alone. Hell, I daily a turbo 4 popper that farts.
Indeed. My daily is a Saabaru Turbo
Lest we forget, the best performance vehicle Mopar has ever built doesn’t have 8 cylinders either…..I have hope for them.
I hope you’re right, but the list of Euro-inspired, American-branded sports cars/sedans is not really a successful bunch.
I more so mean that it looks like they’re unintentionally making a more European feeling sports car. The straight six is way lighter than any of those beloved but mechanically ancient V8s and it seems as though it’ll have an all wheel drive option as well.
It’s undoubtedly going to be marketed as an all American muscle car but on paper it seems an awful lot like a cheaper M4 to me…and I know that me and many others would gladly sign up for that.
They are attractive so far. I don’t hate the design, except maybe the hatchback setup, at all. I would drive one, I also don’t hate the turbo sixes in the performance world. Hell the Most desirable unicorn for me is actually a 1989 TTA, mullet mobile be damned, the 3.8 Turbo in a chassis with aero and suspension that at least in theory can actually use the power is seemingly a good idea. though I will say they should have plopped that puppy into the R/T Chargers and challengers a year ago in say 350 HP trim to get people used to it and to prove it is not a warranty nightmare. I also don’t think they could do a ton wrong with say an E-Ray equivalent that ran the front wheels by electric motors, so it could still tout 700 plus HP to the wheels with a turned up hurricane.
You’re probably not wrong. I’m still amazed they ever split it off into it’s own thing. Then again, someone thought it’d be a good idea to call a small pick-up a “Maverick”, or an electric CUV “Mustang Mach-E” or a boring CUV a “TrailBlazer” and a electric CUV “Blazer”. I’m stunned brands are so willing to tarnish their name and nameplates for this. I mean, yeah, it’s not the end of the world, but why, why?
RAM was split as a contingency so that Sergio Marchionne could have at least one high-value, high-profit brand to attract a buyer, merger partner, or spinoff if the FCA turnaround plan failed. But the turnaround actually worked, and the company became highly profitable.
And then Sergio paused almost all North American vehicle development while he chased another merger that he so desperately wanted. But that took years longer than anticipated (longer than he would live), which left FCA (now Stellantis) with few new vehicles to sell for an agonizingly long time.
They allegedly have many new vehicles in the works, but thanks to long development lead-times, that delay from years ago is leaving the company twisting in the wind.
I can’t say for sure it was the absolute best but I have fond memories (and desire) for the Mitsubishi RA concept they came out with.
https://www.universitymitsubishi.com/the-forgotten-mitsubishi-concept-the-mitsubishi-concept-ra/
Ok 2 comments:
WHY is the new Prius so well received? It looks better than the old one. As Toecutter said, it’s less aerodynamic than the old one. The few I’ve seen in person look bloated. IMO it doesn’t look anywhere near as good as the 2nd and 3rd gen Prii. I feel like there’s some massive conspiracy to pass it off as cool.
Second, gotta love all of these companies focusing upmarket. This is obviously not sustainable and yet another sign of investment bro culture. Increase profit margins and short term stock price at the expense of the consumer and eventually the taxpayer!
And a question:
ELI5: What is the etymology behind “lighting site?”
Yes, please answer this. Some of us are not informed.
Have not seen the new Prius up close, but like a lot about it.
Would like one, but waiting and saving for the new Toyota truck hybrid. The Stout, or whatever they are calling it this week.
There is a German lighting company called Jenoptik, which sounds a little like another automotive website many of us have frequented. So it became the way to reference that site without naming it.
I understood what it was referencing, but obviously had no idea about the German photonics company. Thank you.
I thought it was a picnic where Jello was served.
I would be one of the people that disagree with you on the Prius. I think the styling is great for a car like that. I know the target market for the car was people that like to maximize their fuel efficiency, hypermiling as it were, but to me the car was always very functional and lacked any sort of visual appeal.
Maybe it’s because of my need to have my car have that attractive aesthetic that I never considered a Prius any sort of option for me because it just lacked that sex appeal in any sort of positive emotional response to its styling.
It’s a marvel of engineering and functionally superior for the time it was launched. But I just had no interest in what it was.
The new one? Really strong proportions and excellent design. It looks more like a normal car than previous generations which I think is giving it great success but for many of us it does have that visual appeal that was missing.
I doubt I would fit comfortably with my long legs but I would absolutely add one to my garage for a commuter or in–town runabout.
As far as the lighting site reference; I have a vague memory of someone here in the early days of Autopian launch that mentioned the old site name sounded like a lighting company or something like that. I guess it stuck. I preferred the “Jello Picnic” name since no one wants to use the real name for some reason but here we are.
I could be misremembering, but I think it was Jason or David who came up with the Jenoptik connection when referencing a piece they had written there.
Yeah but this thing is gorgeous:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/2nd_Toyota_Prius.jpg/1280px-2nd_Toyota_Prius.jpg
Ok but actually:
I realllllllyyyyyyyy don’t like how small the greenhouse of the new Prius looks. Where are the windows?????? It either has a tiny head or is very fat.
IMO it is ONLY good looking in context of the previous one, which was one of the ugliest vehicles ever made.
All of the cars are like that now. If they build a smaller car the proportions emphasize it that much more.
Blame safety standards for thick pillars and big doors to house all of the crash protection hardware.
A big, open greenhouse is really only possible on the largest of vehicles anymore. It’s sad since you would think someone, at some point, would ask if it’s safe to constantly and consistently reduce visibility. Can we consider our brain and eyes to be safety equipment?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that. I just see that image you linked as a good, utilitarian design. And there’s nothing wrong with strong, purposeful design! It just lacks that… I don’t know what factor.
Very much with you on the visibility thing. One of my buddies in college drove into a lamppost because it was hiding behind his a-pillar (wasn’t even that new of a car). You also can’t see out of the back of modern cars.
To me it has all of the sexy proportions of a computer mouse including the awkwardly far back peak of the roof and I just don’t get the hype.
It doesn’t look bloated at all
It has a VERY high beltline, massive expanses of sheet metal, and like no windows.
For me one of the biggest styling no-nos is having an expanse of metal above the rear wheel. The new prius is very guilty of this, and also the lower window line tapers up for seemingly no reason. To me, this makes it look incredibly large in relation to the size of the windows.
I think this all stems from the fact that they apparently made it 2 inches shorter, but also made the wheels and tires bigger (i think) and it all seems to have come out of the space above the beltline.
I do like the new design, but like you I didn’t dislike those earlier Prius designs either, and those were a bit roomier inside than the new one.
At this point the Prius isn’t really the poster child for eco-consciousness (and it didn’t work out making Prius a sub-brand), it isn’t really a halo car for hybrid tech in Toyota’s lineup, and it isn’t massively more economical now that every Toyota model is leaning hard into hybridization. Corolla and Camry hybrids get nearly the same mileage or at least close to it/better than the older Prius’, but for new models are cheaper (Corolla by $5k) or bigger/nicer (Camry). So more flashy design it is.
But – while mileage is about the same or just a bit better the old one, it has much improved performance. So though looks are subjective, it is said to drive better too, hoping to shake a bit of the slow Prius driver stereotype.
Civic hatch hybrid should be an interesting competitor to it next year.
That’s all fair. I guess in a world where every design is flashy it doesn’t stand out as much to me as it seems to stand out to other people.
To me, the old one had a lot of character. This one seems to be falling into the same “more power, more styling” line that everything else is these days.
Right, I think that’s part of it too, keep up with all the flashy designs. The old one did look better after the refresh to my eyes, sort of evolutionary to the ones before.
In some cases I might think it was designed with a particular market in mind but I’m not sure they even have one now for the Prius. There are some that it’s been dropped from entirely.
I’ve seen the new Prius in person a few times and mostly like it. I am triggered by the dumb c-pillar door handles for the rear doors and the interior ergonomics are to put it mildly, silly. Then again it is a Toyota. They never can seem to resist futziness.
I suspect your answer lies in an optometrist’s office. 😛 I drive a 2nd gen and while they’re great cars, they are not attractive. The new one is the first generation where it seems like styling was at all considered in the design of the car.
I don’t think they’re attractive but they also don’t look like a computer mouse.
I miss the old auto shows a lot. There was an excitement to actually seeing and touching “the real thing.” As opposed to trying to today, where everything comes at you through a screen with no real definition.
A good memory. When was 3 years old, (1960) my Dad took me to the Chicago show. We got asked to leave after I told the folks at the Chevy exhibit that the “Vette was a total piece of shit. Good times.
I miss the totally bonkers stuff that you got at old Tokyo Motor Shows, like the Nissan that looked like an egg timer.
Two things anyway: Toyota is kind of getting their mojo back but I miss when I fit in them. I don’t consider myself especially large – most of my friends are bigger, actually – but if I get in a Toyota I feel like an absolute giant.
I think GM’s Ultium program is quietly a disaster. Everything is constantly getting delayed and missing production targets. I expect that’s a big reason why this partnership ended – it’s not like Honda is ending an EV push so it feels a lot like they got in, saw the state of Ultium, and ran for the hills.
If I had any faith in GM I’d say they’re just taking their time to avoid all the missteps of the other new EV efforts, but let’s be honest: Ultium has more red flags than an episode of To Catch a Predator.
The best Japanese concept car ever is the same as the best Japanese production car ever: the Lexus LFA. I actually can’t even think of another one that comes close,
User name checks out.
Can’t really argue with that.
Nissan went full Bosozoku on that Hyper Force concept.
Best concept car from Japan? Daihatsu DeTomaso Charade 926R, it’s also on my list of things to track down once I get that internet money. Also an interesting story pitch to send someone to Japan to try to track it down.