It’s going to be a shot/chaser kinda day here at The Morning Dump as I recover from the one-two punch of a presidential debate and extra-inning baseball last night. The good news is the universe is here to perk us up with a smidge of irony and a whole heaping of WTF.
Let’s start with Jeep’s CEO and his plan to make sure the new electric Jeep Wagoneer S is basically perfect before it launches. This seems like a sound strategy given the misfires on EVs and other vehicles from American brands lately [Ed Note: And all brands, really; EV rollouts have been rough, especially from a software standpoint. -DT], and it’ll run against a risk of actual fires in potentially hundreds of thousands of Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators.
Car lenders (and lenders in general) are starting to get nervous as delinquencies tick up amid a softening economic picture. That would have been a good talking point, potentially, for former President Trump in his debate with Kamala Harris. Instead, he talked about… other things. We did get a little mention of carmaking from both, though it was definitely overshadowed.
Is it only Wednesday? I’ve been informed it’s only Wednesday. Let’s get into it.
Shot: Jeep CEO Wants “Perfect” Launch For Jeep Wagoneer S
Stellantis has a lot to do if the company wants to prove it deserves Jeep. One of the brand’s big initiatives is the first electric Jeep (for North America), the Jeep Wagoneer S. I agree with Thomas that it looks like an attractive electric SUV while also not looking particularly like a Jeep.
This is clearly a product of Jeep’s probably misguided dream of spinning off Wagoneer as a Range Rover competitor. I remain unconvinced this is going to sell in large numbers, especially with a $70,000+ price tag. I feel like if Lucid can get anywhere near the price for the Gravity it’ll be a no-brainer.
Still, it’s important for the brand to not screw this up, and Jeep CEO Antonio Filosa, pictured above, insists he’s going to make sure everything goes perfectly.
From a recent Vince Bond, Jr. interview in Automotive News:
The mandate for the vehicle, he said, is clear: “No launch if the quality isn’t perfect.”
“It carries the responsibility of being a Jeep, No. 1, but also it carries the unique responsibility to be the first battery-electric vehicle for Jeep in the history of the North America market, which is the most important market,” Filosa told Automotive News. “I want perfect quality, and I know that we are close, but close is not good enough. Timing is important, but more important than that is to be perfect for the consumers that will give us the privilege to buy this car.”
The “first battery-electric vehicle for Jeep in the history of the North America market” is a funny line, and he has to say it because there’s already an electric Jeep and one, I think, that might be a better fit for North America.
I’m talking about the Jeep Avenger, of course, which is just a little Jeep-shaped EV city car, but is meant to be a lot more affordable. It’s not even built in China! It’s built in Poland. That would rule (also, this is why I’m not allowed to make product decisions for automakers).
Still, Ford has been playing catchup on quality for the last year, so good on Stellantis for trying to avoid that mess.
Chaser: NHTSA Is Investigating Jeep Wranglers And Gladiators That Are Randomly Bursting Into Flames
It’s always scary when a car catches on fire while someone is driving. It’s dangerous and destructive. It’s even scarier when a parked car just suddenly decides to roman-candle itself. I remember as a child, a neighbor’s truck was sitting outside his house when flames began to appear. By the time anyone noticed it was too late to save the truck or the garage.
If you’re a 2021-2023 Jeep Wrangler or Gladiator owner you might want to park your vehicle away from buildings for a while, as NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigations has opened up an investigation into reports that parked Jeeps are self-immolating.
Here’s what NHTSA had to say about why they’re doing this now:
The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) has received 9 Vehicle Owner’s Questionnaire (VOQ) reports, 1 Death and Injury report, and multiple field reports alleging incidents of engine compartment fires in model year (MY) 2021-2023 Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator vehicles. The majority of the reports describe a fire occurring while the ignition in the vehicle was in an ‘OFF’ state with a suspected origin at the passenger front side of the engine compartment. An ignition ‘OFF’ vehicle fire can result in an increased risk of occupant injury, injury to persons outside the vehicle, and property damage, with little to no warning.
ODI has contacted the vehicle manufacturer, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA), and learned of several thermal events originating at the power steering pump electrical connector in recent model year Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator vehicles. The location of the pump connector is located at the passenger front side of the engine compartment, coinciding with the majority of fire reports known to ODI.
It’s amusing that they still refer to Stellantis as FCA here, but it doesn’t really matter. The investigation might result in a recall once the cause (possibly something to do with the power steering pump connector) is confirmed.
Shot: Lenders Getting Wary About The Future
I’ve been talking for a while about the terrible period of loans (called ‘loan vintages’) that were made during the pandemic. These were relatively low-interest loans on cars with inflated, or trimflated, prices that were given to people who might have had a little pandemic stimulus cash in their pocket but probably wouldn’t qualify today for such a large loan.
So long as the economy stayed perfect, this wouldn’t have been a big deal. It obviously didn’t, and now a softening labor market combined with inflation means that many of these loans are turning delinquent as buyers can’t afford to pay them.
Large auto lender Ally Financial joined many other lenders yesterday in warning that, after a period of substantial profits, things might be getting a bit harder. As MarketWatch reports, Ally’s leaders are pointing a finger at the larger economy:
“Over the course of the quarter, our credit challenges have intensified,” Ally Chief Financial Officer Russ Hutchinson said at the Barclays Global Financial Services Conference in New York on Monday. “Our borrower is struggling with high inflation and cost of living, and now, more recently, a weakening employment picture.”
In retail auto loans, Ally Financial said it had seen delinquencies increase about 0.2% above its expectations.
Net charge-offs, which accounts for money that the lender doesn’t expect to be paid back, were 0.1% above its projections, Ally said.
Seemingly, these economic issues would have been front-and-center during the Presidential Debate last night, as well as the conversation about green jobs and cars.
Chaser: Not Much Discussion Of Green Cars During Debate
Donald Trump: “They are eating the dogs, they are watching the cats, they are eating the pets.” pic.twitter.com/tAP6fj10Yo
— Roman Sheremeta ???????? (@rshereme) September 11, 2024
I was really looking forward to a robust conversation about how to stimulate the economy without stoking inflation, the role of the Federal Reserve Bank, and whether EV tax credits really work. There’s a lot to discuss, and the economy seemed like a strong talking point for the Republican candidate. But that didn’t happen; we did get some wild soundbites like the one above, though. (Inadvertently, this is sort of a car issue as, per the New York Times, some Haitian immigrants are assembling cars at the local Honda engine plant though, per many other reports, no one is eating anyone’s pets).
There was a little car talk, with Vice President Harris pointing out that she supports green jobs:
I am proud that as vice president over the last four years, we have invested a trillion dollars in a clean energy economy while we have also increased domestic gas production to historic levels. We have created over 800,000 new manufacturing jobs while I have been vice president. We have invested in clean energy to the point that we are opening up factories around the world. Donald Trump said he was going to create manufacturing jobs. He lost manufacturing jobs. And I’m also proud to have the endorsement of the United Auto Workers and Shawn Fain, who also know that part of building a clean energy economy includes investing in American-made products, American automobiles. It includes growing what we can do around American manufacturing and opening up auto plants, not closing them like what happened under Donald Trump.
Hey, Shawn Fain reference! Take a shot! The above seems mostly true, though with revisions it’s possible that the total new manufacturing job amount might be closer to 700,000. Automobile jobs, if you include dealership jobs, did fall a bit during the Trump administration, but it wasn’t like there were widespread plant closures, and there was that whole pandemic thing.
How did Trump respond?
That didn’t happen under Donald Trump. Let me just tell you, they lost 10,000 manufacturing jobs this last month. It’s going — they’re all leaving. They’re building big auto plants in Mexico. In many cases owned by China. They’re building these massive plants, and they think they’re going to sell their cars into the United States because of these people. What they have given to China is unbelievable. But we’re not going to let that. We’ll put tariffs on those cars so they can’t come into our country. Because they will kill the United Auto Workers and any auto worker, whether it’s in Detroit or South Carolina or any other place. What they’ve done to business and manufacturing in this country is horrible. We have nothing because they refuse — you know, Biden doesn’t go after people because supposedly China paid him millions of dollars. He’s afraid to do it. Between him and his son. They get all this money from Ukraine. They get all this money from all of these different countries. And then you wonder why is he so loyal to this one, that one Ukraine, China? Why is he? Why did he get 3 1/2 million dollars from the mayor of Moscow’s wife? Why did he get — why did she pay him 3 1/2 million dollars? This is a crooked administration, and they’re selling our country down the tubes.
There are auto plants in Mexico, though a lot of them continue to operate because of the USMCA trade agreement that then-President Trump negotiated. There are no massive Chinese auto plants in Mexico and, in fact, the only carmaking facility is a small joint venture with a local company that makes small Chinese city cars from knockdown kits. There was talk of Chinese automakers building plants in Mexico, but a combination of huge U.S. tariffs from the Biden administration and a negative reaction from Mexico’s government makes it less likely to happen anytime soon. And even then, it’s unlikely those cars would ever come to the United States.
I’m not going to touch the rest of it.
What I’m Listening To While Writing TMD
Does “Abracadabra” by the Steve Miller Band count as a Halloween song? It’s a big debate in the Hardigree household. Also, this video is insane, how have I never seen it before? It’s extremely literal, with some weird psycho-sexual undertones. And magicians.
The Big Question
Is The Jeep Wagoneer S the right product for Jeep right now? What would you like to see instead?
It’s like saying your already on an Uber healthy diet, while a video (from 5 minutes earlier) of you, eating 10 boxes of Mcnuggets, 20 Big Macs, and 35 cans of Coke is playing in the background.
Great photo of Jeep Guy CEO. Really enjoyed that laugh.
As for Jeep new product? IDK, maybe something radical.
Like basic, good trans at a reasonable price. Throw in a decent gas hybrid engine.
Delete the screens, and high options from the base offerings to keep price at or below 30K.
Basically just make a good product, in the US/Canada.
Make it able to compete with the current Big 3 offerings.
Great points about the debate last evening.
The jokes write themselves. TBH I am really enjoying the shit show here.
Not a fan of either really here, but certainly have made a choice.
No way I’m letting a bunch of filthy immigrants eat my ducks…God damn them. /s
Having gone through the lemon law buyback process for a 2021 4XE, they better get the quality issue under control.
Stellantis outsourced my buyback to a third party, who dumped it at auction as a branded title. I’m told it has at least three to four times their volume for other FCA products.
I’m thinking we will get more car talk with the VP debate in about a month. At least I hope so. If I were Walz, and had the stage like that, I would be talking cars because that’s the stuff that matters! No but seriously, with the JDM stuff getting banned, right to repair concerns, and all the other crazy car focused laws lately, I would love to see it come up.
They should replace the podiums with a couch.
Eff that. No.. stop, Not literally.
“What would you like to see instead?”
How about a cheap and cheerful Jeep runabout?
Hell, I’d even take a rebadge Suzuki Jimny as an affordable off-roader… since, apparently, execs think that should no longer be a thing in the American market. A base Wrangler starts at $33,890, while the Jimny is roughly $23,280 USD (converted from $34,990 in dingo dollars).
Better yet a rebadged, regrilled Maharinda Roxor.
Huh, those are pretty neat. Though the court-ordered redesign is a little fugly.
Brilliant!
Although federalizing that ancient design may be a lot of work. Mahindra could probably pull it off if they got paid enough.
The Renegade was supposed to do this, but something, something FIAT.
Agreed. How the hell did the Wrangler get so damn expensive? It was cheap fun.
How the hell did the Wrangler get so damn expensive?
They set a price, more than enough people financed that price.
They set a higher price, more than enough people financed that higher price
They set an even higher price, more than enough people financed that even higher price.
They set a ludicrous price, more than enough people financed that ludicrous price.
And here we are.
Wranglers were never cheap new cars going all the way back to 1986. They always sold for somewhere near the average transaction price of vehicles sold.
They weren’t the most expensive toys on the market, but they were only ever cheap as used cars.
Compared to the overall market, they’re probably as cheap as they’ve ever been, not counting the Wrangler 4Xe.
Take the Jeep avenger, cut the roof off and make the doors removable, and just like that you have a new Jeepster.
All the “jeep girls” who like the idea of a wrangler, but don’t want to put up with the death wobble, terrible fuel economy, or absurd price tag would flock to it.
No, the Wagoneer is like Jeep watched a behind the music with 80s excess prominently displayed and though hey, we should make something for that!
Jeep should bring back the Cherokee but looking to the Wrangler like the Bronco Sport does to the Bronco, slap a hybrid in it, start it at $25k, go from there. Or maybe give Dodge or Chrysler some more utility vehicles and just trim down their line, Jeep doesn’t need to sell all the things.
Real “works on contingency (?) no(,) money down!” moment.
A $20,000 two door Wrangler with a non hybrid 4 cylinder and manual transmission is what’s needed right now.
The Wagoneer S EV doesn’t make sense. I don’t understand their insistence on trying to get Jeep to be a RR/LR competitor. They should have made these Wagoneers under the Ram, or possibly Chrysler, brand. Especially since the gas Wagoneers look nothing like the old Wagoneers, like zero design references anywhere as far as I can tell. They just look like a bloated Grand Cherokee. They drive pretty well though from my experience renting one.
I find it kind of humorous that Republicans keep getting the assumption that they know what they are doing financially when they’ve proven over the last handful of decades that they clear do not. Just in terms of sheer job number growth. Cutting taxes and regulations isn’t some grand financial strategy that benefits a country that actually needs to think long term. We aren’t some corporation to be hollowed out as quickly as possible. Your standard CEO and/or MBA is not qualified to run a government, I’m sorry. It’s a shame because it would be nice if that party were an actual functioning party of different ideas on how to govern. They aren’t interested in that and haven’t been for a very long time.
It never ceases to be crazy to me when reading him quoted like that because it’s just deranged word salad. It becomes ever more apparent his brains are leaking out of his ears as you read it.
What’s especially alarming is the fact that so many people look at a senile fascist reality TV star with brains running out of his ears, then look at a successful, competent, thoughtful career politician, and go “hmmm I’m just not sure who’s more qualified to run the country”. I’m hardly what you’d call a liberal or traditional Democrat but DEAR GOD people….if you want the country to survive this isn’t a difficult choice
Who cares about the country surviving till tomorrow when you can OWN THE LIBS today?
This is a huge thing to me also. Are people really this ignorant and naive? Seriously.
On the other hand, it’s almost impossible to fix stupid.
OMG I agree with Nsane!!!
That’s what the Republicans WANT you to think. They’ve been faking presidential incompetence for decades:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b5wfPlgKFh8
I should have expected that but wasn’t really sure.
Oh, they have some “different” ideas alright…
You are lucky if your standard CEO can effectively run the business they are in charge of.
I was trying to be as nice as I could.
I would like to see a Jeep Wrangler EV with a 200+ mile range and access to the Tesla Supercharger network.
I’m struggling to see the point of the Wagoneer S. It is expensive and doesn’t set itself apart from other currently available electric SUVs. I have a hard time seeing it as a better choice or better value than an EQB, R1S, or Model Y. I don’t see Jeep releasing yet another generic electric SUV as a winning strategy.
I’m surprised Jeep hasn’t made more of an effort to build a Wrangler EV. People (including myself) love the Wrangler and view it as in a class by itself. Many Wrangler buyers literally did not consider another vehicle. It seems like a Wrangler EV (or, better yet, a range extended PHEV similar to the upcoming Ramcharger) could be very popular. Why bother trying to sell a generic vehicle in a crowded field when you could sell a unique one with no competition?
I regularly read about an upcoming electric Wrangler, but it seems like the date of production keeps being pushed back to the point I don’t expect to see one anytime soon.
The Wrangler is a difficult one to EV I think. Much of what makes a Wrangler a Wrangler stands at odds with EV efficiency. Solid axle provides much of the character to a Wrangler, but solid axle stands in the way of efficiency. You either have to mount a massively heavy motor in the axle or you have to run driveshafts from motors to axles. Or you have to sacrifice that aspect of the Wrangler personality and make it all independent suspension. Maybe you could get away with an EV version of a DeDion axle? Maybe that is a compromise that maintains the character of the Wrangler, while preserving at least some aspect of efficiency?
But even then, its shaped like brick, has exposed axles underneath, tends to ride quite high, often gets really large tires mounted on it. All of those have a much more noticed impact on an EV than they do on gas, cuz you can always just pump another tank of gas and keep going. I imagine getting an EV Wrangler “right” is a monumental task.
I get that the Wrangler is a tough vehicle to make right as an EV. I think an EV worthy of the Wrangler name is possible, though.
I could see a dual motor setup with an independent suspension not being a deal breaker. It would still have more off-road capability than most Wrangler buyers actually use. Wrangler styling could be preserved with some aerodynamic tweaks; it wouldn’t be efficient by EV standards, but it would be adequate. The only practical limitation would be the inability to lift the vehicle and/or add big tires (admittedly, this is a big priority for a subset of Wrangler owners). It will still be just as good at doors/roof off cruising, commuting, and light-moderate off roading, though. This could be a great choice for those who are willing to trade some of the Wrangler image for features they actually use (i.e. smoother/quieter ride, instant torque, cheaper fuel, the ability to fuel up at home, etc.).
Obviously, hardcore off roaders will not be interested in this vehicle, but the ICE Wrangler will (hopefully) always be available.
Honestly, though, I would settle for a Wrangler 4xe with an EV range of 60 miles. I find it hard to believe that is an impossible task.
You make some fair points. I am interested to see what they eventually come out with and how it does.
60 miles does not seem too much to ask in a 4xe, I agree.
Take a wrangler, bolt in hybrid engine/generator/battery power train keeping the normal wranglers suspension and axles. Price it decently and let the buyers flex their green. If it gets 1% better fuel economy it’s a win.
Worthy of the wrangler name is such a laughable thing for me to grok these days. The top comes off..thats the rub basically. Yes it’s capable but 90% of buyers don’t even take the hard tops off let alone go rock crawling.
You could through a seven slot grill on an electric Manx, slap an e-wragler lite badge on it and sell like hotcakes to rich parents buying sweet sixteen gifts for tiny dictators.
the Recon concept sounds pretty much like what you’re describing, now only to hope they put it into production as shown and manage to not bung up the build quality.
The Electric G Wagen gets the DeDion rear axle
Interesting. Very interesting. I am going to go look at that. I kinda forgot about the G Wagen going electric, and I never thought deep enough to consider it might have some of the same issues as the Wrangler in maintaining character.
Where would they source low friction oversized mud tires?
The Wagoneer S might have been an interesting product 5 years ago…just like how the ICE Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer might have been compelling products 20 years ago. So, kudos to Jeep on closing that gap and only being 5 years behind now? I guess?
$60,000+ BEV SUVs reached the point of over saturation in like 2021 or 2022. They appeal to an extremely limited slice of the market that’s already bought them at this point. This includes luxury offerings as well…how much are Audi E Tron SUVs, BMW iXs, the Mercedes EQ whatever, etc. worth now? Hell you can lease most $70,000+ luxury EVs for like $600 a month right now because they’re so desperate to move them.
An initial wave of wealthy Jeep people will probably buy a handful of them, but then they’re going to sit for months if not years. No one wants the stuff right now. BEV crossovers are too expensive, too heavy and too compromised…in addition to being hilariously bad investments. And on top of that, this will be competing with Rivian…and Rivians are fucking cool/probably intriguing to the small subset of the Jeep crowd that might consider this.
2023 Gladiator owner here. This is the first I have heard about these fires, and the first thing that popped into my head with “front passenger under the hood” is the Aux wire pigtail. These wires can be attached to any accessory and programmed to be on even when the ignition is off. Jeep owner doing their own wiring + allowed to be on when ignition is off = possible fire hazard.
It’s genuinely impressive the way Stellantis has kneecapped a brand like Jeep that is both their main money maker and nearly cult like in buyers. All you had to do was keep on keeping on…and you didn’t.
You know what Jeep REALLY needs right now? A Jimny. A b segment car with real Jeep DNA. They also really need a new Cherokee, but not called Cherokee. Call it the “trail” or something.
I would say that nothing that eliminates the Cherokee name should be called “trail”
Ha! Okay, fair point.
I keep beating that Jimny drum as well. I really do think there is a market for it. Call it the Jeepster, or the Buckaroo. As for the new Cherokee name, maybe a western US tree name. Buckeye, Hawthorn, Bristlecone, Saguaro. All of those I think would fall right in with the Jeep aesthetic. Or there may be a tribe who would love to have their name used. I don’t consider it rude to ask around and see if there is interest.
Honestly Stellantis should just license the Jimny from Suzuki, manufacture it in Mexico in their own plant, and sell it here as the Jeep Jimny. No rebranding even needed.
The fact that Jeep killed the Cherokee with no replacement — their one entry into the single hottest vehicle segment in the country(!!) — is a mind-blowing act of corporate malfeasance. Jeep is selling 600k total vehicles a year in the US across their entire lineup, while Toyota is shifting 400k RAV4s alone.
“No launch if the quality isn’t perfect.” This is comical coming from a Stellantis brand.
This means no launch. They’ll never be perfect.
I think they mean: No, launch if the quality isn’t perfect.
excellent comma usage
Ah, the ol’ Lionel Hutz.
The Simpsons have never let us down.
(frustrated grunt)
More realistically No lunch if quality isn’t perfect
Lunch is the least important meal of the day anyway.
I think the vehicle could be launched off a ramp or launch something off the hood if you hit the brakes hard enough.
It’s a different way of saying the product is vaporware.
Jeep saying the Wagoneer S has to be perfect is definitely going to curse it with so many recalls that Ford will feel embarrassed for them.
So, is there a Wagoneer Hellcat by any chance? LOL
Instead of the Wagoneer, Jeep should’ve just made a LWB 7-seat Wrangler Safari, including a Hellcat version. That shit would PRINT money.
Stellantis needs to go POOF! Give Jeep back to AM General and then just discard the other brands. Seize the “executives” ill-gotten millions, give the money to the engineers and hourly labor, and load the “executives” up with debt.
I love me some Steve Miller Band, but “Abracadabra” feels like a throwaway goof that at best should have been a bonus track on the third re-packaging of a Greatest Hits record. I’m glad the video had the decency to cut it by a minute and a half! Grumble phooey humbug.
You would have loved the long play disco version. It was so painful .
“… Jeep CEO Antonio Filosa, pictured above …”
Oh man, this is gonna be great.
Carlos! The Car-man! Carlos-arino! Makin’ copies! Carlos-ioso! Running Chrysler into the ground! The Tavar-inator! Building weird-sounding Dodges! Carloooos!
The Flame-meister… Flamorama… Makin’ fires… Arsonorama…
Since this is a politics day, I’ll communicate that Rob Schneider is a super MAGA Trumper whose own daughter has basically disowned him. And, while I previously did not have any opinion of Antonio Filosa, I now do.
They are both Hollywood goofballs, and It’s not like she’s some Nun…
For the record, I am not THAT Rob Schneider, in case anybody hadn’t figured that out already.
I figured as much. Is it for the gag, or is it coincidence?
Coincidence. My real name is Robin, but growing up I hated all the Batman and fly-south-for-the-winter jokes, so when I got to college I started going by Rob. Then this guy shows up on SNL and my life was ruined all over again.
Now it seems people just interpret it as a verb or instruction, so I’m thinking about going back to Robin.
You could always go by:
Baaahb
Bohhbby
Bob-o-rama
Bob-a-long-a-ding-dong
Bob
I had an aunt that insisted on calling me “Robby”. That was worse than Robin.
We don’t speak to that part of the family anymore.
Doesn’t it suck when life throws that type of shit at you? Sorry to hear. If it makes you feel any better, my real name is the same as a famous movie character, and I get the jokes and sayings all the time. I’ve learned to let them roll of my back at this point. One of those “if I had a nickel for every….” things.
There is nothing wrong with Robin, it’s a cool name. And, at this point, no one knows who Robin from Batman is anymore. CRAP, now there is going to be another movie a year after you change back.
Holy Batsence Parsko! I just saw an ad for a new Penguin series! You might be on to something!
I apologize in advance.
I feel like the Michael Bolton joke in Office Space was written just for you.
It’s probably safe to go back to Robin as long as you’re not in school anymore. I know a few people that use their middle names instead. You could go that route. As long as your middle name isn’t Roy or John.
Sorry, those burning Wranglers and Gladiators are on me. I just don’t like them.
Sincerely,
Charlie McGee
The regular Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer is pretty much a failure right? $15k+ on the hood to sell left overs from the previous model year isn’t usually what an automaker wants to see. Looks like there are still brand new 2023s around in my area. Maybe they need $30k on the hood.
So I don’t know why an expensive EV with the Wagoneer name on it would fare any better. Does Stellantis really think some Jeep loyalist is going to trade in their Wrangler for a CUV with batteries (that costs $80k)? Do they really think Range Rover customers are cross shopping with Jeep?
Just because high net worth people bought Wagoneers in the 80’s doesn’t mean the “brand” carries any weight in 2024. Clearly it doesn’t by the way the launch has gone so far.
The Wagoneer may not be the ideal product, but it is almost certainly the best Stellantis can do right now.
Remember, that tiny Avenger you all say you want costs over $40,000 and has a 250 mile range on the optimistic Euro test (~200 miles EPA). Does not strike me as an ideal combo for American tastes.
For the time being, the only hope is to hide the cost of batteries in a luxury model.
I mean, it’s not ideal, but would it do worse than the Dodge Hornet?
Perhaps not, but I hope they’re aiming higher than that.
Given the rest of their decisions, I’m not entirely sure they are.
lol is that the bar now?
I mean for Stellantis right now, probably.
With some tweaks, the design looks like it could be a Blazer or Equinox EV competitor. Maybe they could make something similar with AWD in Mexico? If it works with Ford and its Mondeo Sport, which looks remarkably similar to the Mach E, it could work for Stellantis.
It’s much much smaller than those vehicles though for about the same price.
The Blazer is 192″ long with a 324 mile range. Starting at $44K. The Equinox EV is even cheaper.
The Avenger is 160″ long with a ~200 mile range. Starting at $42K in Europe.
To me, that is a complete non-starter. Vanishingly few people buy something small for its own sake, rather than settling for it because it’s cheaper.
Interesting. Those pictures are definitely misleading. The Jeep Renegade is 166.6′ long, and it already looks a little cozy. Hopefully, the EV version of that isn’t dead in the water.
Wagoneer S the right product? Absolutely not. Nobody is buying into the Wagoneer sub-brand, they’re all heavily discounted, and EV adoption is slowing. The Wagoneer S is a vehicle with no resemblance to what makes a Jeep a Jeep, or to any Wagoneer. It will not sell well, regardless of good press, reliability or build quality.
Totally, entirely, I’m sure 100% unrelated, but two years ago I watched a brand new (current facelift) V6 Durango self-immolate while parked at the breach. Fire started in the engine bay. Not saying it’s related, but that would be the same Pentastar as the Wrangler and Gladiator.
Ferrari heritage yo! 😛
Maserati uses the Pentastar now too
Jeep? Is that you?
The Wagoneer S should have been saved for the EV Durango, the Avenger should come to America but branded as the Jeepster.
Loved the picture of Jeep CEO Antonio Filosa.