Jeep Wranglers are rugged four-wheel-drive vehicles. That’s what they were born to be, and since the beginning, they’ve been executing that mission flawlessly. You would think that if you bought a manual Jeep, you could rely on the transmission to just work, given that Jeeps have had floor-mounted stickshifts for over eight decades. The last few years have revealed that’s anything but the case. Recall after recall goes by, but owners are still crying out for help with trucks that simply don’t work.
The problem concerns Aisin AL6 six-speed manual-equipped Jeep Wrangler JLs from model years 2018 to 2023, as well as Jeep Gladiator JTs from years from 2020 to 2023. These vehicles feature a clutch pressure plate that can overheat due to friction. In extreme cases, the pressure plate has been known to fracture. This can be an extreme event that sends hot shards of metal blasting through the transmission case which can set fire to the vehicle. Though it’s a rarity, it’s actually happened out in the wild.
Jeep has been trying to solve this problem for some time. Manual transmissions are simple and well-understood, so you’d think this would have been sorted quickly. The Autopian spoke to Jeep customers struggling with this very problem, though, and the reality isn’t so grand. Some have turned to aftermarket repairs, while others are tangling with multiple recalls and constant error codes with no end in sight.
Source Of The Pain
The clutch assembly is a critical element of any manual transmission vehicle. The clutch is responsible for transferring power from the engine to the transmission. Any fault with the clutch assembly can make a vehicle nigh impossible to drive, and this could be dangerous in some scenarios. In the case of the Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator, the problem initially lay with the pressure plate. But what is a pressure plate?
A pressure plate is bolted to the main part of your engine’s rotating assembly, the flywheel. The actual clutch disc sits between the flywheel and pressure plate, and is connected to the transmission input shaft via a spline. The pressure plate’s job is to clamp the clutch to the flywheel. This makes the engine and the transmission input shaft all rotate together, thus connecting the “wheels” to the engine, moving the vehicle forward. When the clutch pedal is depressed, the pressure plate falls back and releases the clutch; the clutch disc is no longer clamped between the pressure plate and flywheel, and thus the engine is disconnected from the transmission (and thus the wheels).
As per recall documents filed with NHTSA, Jeep’s manual transmissions were overheating the pressure plate. The problem was so bad that the pressure plate could fracture, potentially so badly that hot fragments could escape the transmission case and even start a fire.
Issues Begin
It took a few years before Jeep realized the scope of the problem. But the clues were there from day 1. Go back to the very first drive review from Motor Trend in 2018, and they’d tell you the manual wasn’t a great experience. “The clutch take up on the six-speed manual transmission is so vague even our officemates at JP and 4-Wheel and Off-Road were stalling,” said Scott Evans. Car and Driver was similarly unimpressed. ” Further, the clutch engaged with an abruptness that saw many experienced drivers stall the thing,” wrote Daniel Pund.
Jeep Reduces Engine Torque To Try To Solve The Issue
According to documents filed with NHTSA, Jeep first became aware of the issue in 2020. Investigations began after a 2021 model year Jeep Gladiator suffered a fire at the company’s Toledo North Assembly Complex. More cases filed in over the following months, and Jeep eventually issued a recall, with a software update believed to be the solution to the problem.
In some circumstances, the clutch pressure plate may become overheated
through friction, which may lead the pressure plate to rapidly fracture. When a
pressure plate fractures, it may result in cracks or holes in the transmission
case, allowing heated debris to be expelled from the transmission case.There is no defective part. The issue is the result of design specification.
Remedy is updated software for the vehicle that mitigates safety risks
related to the clutch assembly.
-NHTSA Part 573 Safety Recall Report, 2021
The software update would reduce engine torque in the event the vehicle’s computers detected potentially elevated clutch assembly temperatures. The Jeep transmission doesn’t have any way to directly measure the temperature of the clutch, however. Instead, Jeep engineers figured out that they would estimate clutch temperatures indirectly. The clutch assembly generally gets hot when the clutch isn’t fully engaged, and is allowed to slip relative to the flywheel and pressure plate. The sliding friction generates a lot of heat, which can damage components. By comparing engine RPM with vehicle speed sensor signals and the current gear selection, it’s possible for the Jeep’s computers to determine whether or not the clutch is slipping, and thus is likely to be getting hot.
Jeep rolled out this update under a recall campaign beginning in 2021. Eventually, it became obvious that this update wasn’t solving the problem. Jeep realized that vehicles built after the initial recall were still suffering failures in the clutch assembly.
By early 2023, Jeep was issuing another recall and a stop-sale order for the same problem as warranty complaints stacked up. The new recall involved the replacement of the clutch assembly along with further software updates to the Instrument Cluster Module (ICM) and Powertrain Control Module (PCM). The hope was that this would eliminate the overheating issue and ensuing failures.
James’s Trial
I recently spoke to James Wamsley, whose truck has been afflicted with this very curse. He bought a 2023 Jeep Gladiator Mojave with the manual transmission. He was stuck waiting for delivery while Jeep sorted out the transmission issues, as the recall effort had included a stop-sale order. He eventually scored his new truck in December, having been told the recall work had been handled.
Fast forward a few months, and he was out in his new truck on an adventure in the Outer Banks of North Carolina. “Since this was the first outing of the new truck, I chose a firm beach,” he explains. “After shifting into 4 high, I basically let the clutch out once and cruised along.” As an experienced driver, he didn’t foresee what would happen next. “First I got a warning that auto start-stop was disabled, then a high trans temp warning, then a Service Transmission warning, all within a half mile of hitting the beach.” He hoped that letting the vehicle cool down would be enough to reset things, but it wasn’t to be. The vehicle remained in a limp mode, with severely limited torque. “It pretty much renders the vehicle undrivable,” he says.
Upon getting the vehicle to a local dealer, he was questioned if the problem was user error. ” I assured him that I’ve been driving on the beach with manual transmissions since 1992, and this is the first problem I’ve encountered,” says James. The dealer performed a reset on the vehicle and sent James on his way. “The next day I tried using 4-Low instead of 4-High, thinking maybe the bogging down heats the clutch,” he explains. Alas, the problem reoccurred again in just half a mile of sand driving.
He had the local dealer reset the vehicle once more so he could get home to Pennsylvania. He’s been pursuing a proper fix since then, but to no avail. “The local dealer can’t replicate the issue, because there’s no beach in Pennsylvania,” says James. “After two service visits and three weeks in the shop, they’ve fixed nothing, and say the vehicle is operating normally.”
A VIN check by The Autopian confirmed that his Gladiator had the work performed for recall 19A. And yet, James is stuck with a truck that keeps throwing errors. He can no longer trust his truck off-road. “Jeep is saying there’s no issue, that’s what it’s supposed to do when the clutch gets hot,” he says. “So, again, the whole Desert Rated [badge] comes into question.” It’s a great point, given the Mojave trim is literally named after a sandy wasteland.
He’s heavily pursued the issue with the Jeep Wave customer care service. Eventually, he says Jeep’s Customer Retention Team agreed to a Service Technical Assistance Resource (STAR) case, where the matter is escalated to a higher level of technical investigation within Jeep itself. But even that didn’t get him anywhere. “Currently, the jeep is at the dealer, the dealer said that the STAR case was closed by Jeep with no problem found, so there’s nothing they can do,” he says.
James says his biggest disappointment is with the way the company has handled his case so far. “They are simply stating there is no issue because it’s operating properly,” he says. “It’s like saying, your boat sinks when you use it, but when you bring it back for service, it’s on a trailer, so we can’t make it sink.”
At this time, there still aren’t parts available for many affected vehicles. That includes some on the used market, too, which still have recalls outstanding. Documents filed with the NHTSA in March 2024 indicate that recall parts are still not available for Jeep Wranglers or Jeep Gladiators built for the 2020 to 2022 model years.
A 1,100-member strong Facebook group titled “Jeep clutch recall” has been spawned on the topic, with owners sharing stories of successful fixes and ongoing woes. Some have had the recall work completed without issue, while others have continued to suffer problems. Just like James’s story above, they report that the Service Transmission warning recurs regularly even after the recall. Some owners are regularly using scan tools like JScan or Tazer to reset the warnings when they appear.
Others have thrown their hands up and sought external help. Many in the group have had aftermarket clutch kits installed as a solution to the issue. Some have had success getting Jeep to reimburse them for replacements handled by outside workshops, others have not been so lucky. Given that a clutch replacement can typically cost from $2500 to $4000 on these vehicles, it’s easy to see why some customers are eager to have Jeep pay to solve the problem.
I spoke to Todd Spencer, the proud owner of a Jeep Wrangler with a manual transmission. He went the aftermarket route, rather than waiting for Jeep to supply parts. “I installed a Centerforce 2 Performance clutch and flywheel kit with all the upgraded hydraulic cylinders… It’s the fix for the Jeeps,” he explained, noting he received a $3,100 reimbursement from Jeep for the swap.
“It’s like a night and day difference,” Todd says. “It engages as a clutch should now, and holds!” He’s running a 3.5-inch lift and 35-inch tires, and he’s had no fault codes.
The aftermarket parts aren’t a silver bullet for everyone, though. Some forum users have reported that they’re still seeing Service Transmission warnings come up at times, even with a new clutch fitted. Aftermarket Scan tools like JScan and Tazer have been implementing reset features to clear the lights for owners that are seeing the message reoccur regularly.
I decided to hit up Z Automotive, the company behind the Tazer flash tool. Company president Joe Zizzadoro got back to me, explaining that he’s bought a 2020 Jeep Wrangler specifically to investigate this issue and try and develop a remedy. He was able to provide excellent insight into the matter.
The clutch recall flash that is out at the moment affects 2018,2019, 2023 and 2024 Jeeps only. They haven’t put out the update for 20-2022 as of yet, and they probably shouldn’t!The PCM flash includes code that estimates clutch temperature based on engine RPM vs wheel speed. They seem to use a combination of hardcoded math and some variables that a re measured after a reset that are stored in the PCM’s EEPROM.If stock tires and gears are used, there seems to be no problem. The issue is that once the tire and/or gear ratio calibration is changed, the PCM doesn’t use these new values to re-calculate the clutch temps. This will cause the hot clutch messages and reduced engine power.
A Working Theory
After talking to James, Todd, and Joe, I’ve got a working theory on what’s going on. Taking a look at Todd’s flywheel will tell you one thing—the original clutch assembly as delivered on his 2018 Wrangler was definitely overheating. He’s replaced that clutch assembly with an aftermarket one, and he’s happy. The problem is fixed, as far as he’s concerned.
The same can’t be said for James. His Jeep Gladiator has had the 19A recall done. That means it has a new clutch assembly fitted, and it’s had the computers flashed with Jeep’s updated software, too. Now, it’s possible this clutch assembly is still defective, and it’s slipping and overheating. That’s certainly what his Jeep is telling him when he drives on sand.
However, there’s another possible explanation for James’s troubles. Could it be that the updated software on the powertrain control module in James’s Gladiator is throwing a fit because it thinks the clutch is slipping when it isn’t? If the new software is overly sensitive to clutch slip, it could be throwing errors when it shouldn’t be. Given Joe’s note about the difficulty of calibrating the PCM properly, there could be something in this.
It must be stated that this is just a theory; it’s not confirmed by Jeep, and we don’t have enough evidence available to confirm it outright. Nor is the following statement advice—it’s just a statement of what I’d do given what we know. If I had a Jeep right now, I’d skip the official recall and software flashes. I’d get an aftermarket clutch put in and have it reimbursed by the automaker. It’s only anecdotal evidence, but Todd’s got a working Jeep, and James hasn’t. I’d follow his example based on what I know right now.
Update from Jeep
The Autopian sought comment from Jeep, particularly regarding the parts availability for the recall. Jeep provided a statement this week regarding the matter.
We have been servicing vehicles since November of last year. Service completions are growing daily. To date, nearly 8,500 customers have responded to their recall notices and we urge all affected customers to do the same. The remedy is being phased in by model-year. We expect to mail the final group of notifications in August.
The automaker confirmed that the current 19A recall involves full replacement of the clutch assembly, as well as reprogramming of the Instrument Panel Cluster and Powertrain Control Module. However, Jeep declined to provide any additional detail on why the clutch had an overheating problem, beyond putting it down to friction.
For owners still facing issues post-recall, the automaker had only this to say. “We urge customers to contact their dealers whenever they have concerns, for any reason,” read the statement. That will come as little comfort to owners like James, who has been around this merry-go-round time and again already.
Some owners on Facebook are now reporting they’ve been told a work stop has been issued for the recall. That would make a lot of sense given the troubles customers are having in the field. The Autopian contacted Jeep for clarification on this point, which stated that “remedy availability is being phased in by model-year. All model-years will be covered by August.”
Supposedly Proven Technology
The simple fact is that the manual transmission has been around for a century at this point. Countless vehicles use them, from the cheapest hatchbacks to the finest sports cars on Earth. Neither the Jeep Wrangler nor the Jeep Gladiator is a particularly special case. Designing a functional manual transmission for these vehicles should have been straightforward work for an established automaker.
Instead, Jeep released a vehicle with a defective clutch assembly that required full replacement. Even more strangely, it didn’t catch the problem until after the first recall applied a software fix to a hardware problem. The fact that the second recall still hasn’t solved things for some owners is yet more concerning.
Customers generally have an expectation that a new vehicle will be fit for purpose. In the event of issues, they expect an automaker to fix them in a reasonable period of time. When fixes take years, or multiple fixes fail to solve the problem, they quickly lose faith in a product. It’s no surprise that many are considering legal options to solve their problems where Jeep has failed.
James is being forced into that position himself, but it’s not the way he wants to go. “The truck is technically my wife’s, and she cries about it,” he says. “She doesn’t want to lemon law or try for a buyback… she just wants it fixed.”
The Autopian has reached out to Jeep for more information on the matter. Namely, our questions are the same as many customers out there. What is the root cause of this overheating problem, and what are customers to do when their car still throws error messages after a recall repair?
There’s a bigger question, though, that we probably won’t get a real answer to. In 2024, how does this happen in the first place?
Image credits: Jeep, James Wamsley, Facebook screenshot, Todd Spencer, Clutch Industries via YouTube Screenshot
JL and JT reliability and quality is so terrifying there is no way I will ever upgrade from my paid off manual JKUR. Especially for the high prices.
Same. 2012 2-door JK Sport that I have upgraded bits and pieces here and there. I bought a one-owner with 40k miles on it, which seemed the safest bet as someone obviously liked it enough to keep it around. It has been trouble-free and a great vehicle and has even occasionally “fixed itself.” It has 135k miles on it now and although I have been tempted to get something newer, I really only want a Wrangler, and I don’t trust my luck in the reliability department to repeat itself with this brand.
Their first solution is a software fix to make limp mode engage earlier. That’s just admitting you built a crap system but want to see if you can get it to live through the warranty period.
“If they can’t use it, they can’t say it’s broken.”-Jeep
Krslyer Kwaliteeeeeeeeeeee
It’s a Jeep Thing 😛
Fix it Again, Tony!
Toyota murdered old people with defective pw/pdl relays in 88-91 Camry’s and again with known defective throttle plates in 2010-ish Camry’s, but you probably bought the lie that it was floor mats after the NHTSA fined them $1.1 billion for knowingly selling cars with a known fatal defect because cONsUmER rEPorTs told you what to think. How about the 250,000 Tundra and Tacoma’s from 2008-2012 Toyota had to buy back because their frames were breaking in half and rear axles were falling off from corrosion at 2-3 years old? How about Toyota replacing 2.5 million 2.0L and 2.5L engines after being sued by 20+ states after fraudulently blaming “customer abuse” when they knew it was caused by sludge buildup in the heads and oil pan? Yeah. Your television didn’t tell you that and neither did crap reports (which Toyota funded it’s startup in the 1960’s) didn’t tell you. And for the record, stock Wranglers aren’t having the problem. Read the article. Any manual transmission vehicle should have the clutch upgraded when larger tires and wheels are put on. You THINK you know cars but you KNOW nothing but bought and paid for opinion. I am a 30 year dealer tech.
Wow. Did a Toyota leak coolant in your Wheaties this morning?
It wouldn’t be a first. I was a Toyota tech in the 90’s. They were shit cars then, running on bought and paid for reputation, despite their many serious problems. Nothing has changed except more idiots are drinking the Kool aid.
wait, wait, WAIT…
your thesis here is that Toyotas are secretly not as reliable as they have been made out to be, that it’s all a lie or a big conspiracy?
Based on all the comments I am seeing them leaving, they are giving big “Angry Boomer ranting on Facebook” energy
Apparently the NHTSA, Consumer Reports, and Toyota are in cahoots to defraud the American people.
Jeffrey Epstein was killed in prison by unintended acceleration and lizard people or something.
And space laser wielding pizza delivery persons.
with floormats
But wait!
(Throws on hat made from aluminum foil)
Isn’t it interesting that when Toyota was about to become the world’s largest automaker, the whole “unintended acceleration due to floormats” thing happened?
Or when VW went for the crown Dieselgate happened?
We’re through the looking glass here people.
(Takes hat off. Reads post.)
Wow…
I love you and your comment
haha look at his reply
I would love to see backup info on the Camry issues, because I thought tge causes of the unintended acceleration issue were proven with little room for doubt.
Worth noting that the rotted Tacoma frames were all made by Dana. And Toyota has been pretty good about replacing them from my understanding. Unlike Jeep with TJ frames and floors.
Dana supplied frames to both Toyota and Ford at the time, and both had the same problem. As a result, Dana gave money to both companies to fix the issues, but they handled it differently.
Toyota used the money from Dana to fix the trucks and replace the frames. Ford tried to pocket the money.
Please tell John E.
when you give John E facts, he struggles, so let’s see what happens
Ah, I now see the bullshit come out to light. This is a goofball making random shit up.
Dude’s a liar about nearly everything he’s bleating about. I mean, Toyota frames…yeah.
But we see we have some sort of Ford fanboi saying how you must upgrade the clutch? Bunk. But keep lying, bub. Your fanboi is showing
Found Tavares’s Autopian username
John, what was the PW/PDL relay issue on that generation Camry?
I had a ’91 V6 that had all sorts of strange issues tied to the rear window switch and I’m wondering if this was that.
Consumer Reports was founded in 1936. Crap Reports did not debut until 1997 as part of the initial publicity campaign for the introduction of the Bristol Stool Scale but, despite some important and well-received investigative journalism on the lead up to the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, unfortunately could not withstand the decline of traditional print media in the 2000s and folded in 2006.
Problem is you bought a FIAT not a Jeep.
DT owns 578164 real Jeeps and they’re all crap too.
I guess my 2004 TJ will remain in service for a few more years. More and more, I am convinced that the TJ was the high water mark for Wranglers. Comfortable enough while still being ruggedly simple. Plus, they had the mighty 4.0 L.
If I wanted a Wrangler again, I would go out west to find a non-rusty TJ (I live in winter salt world). You’re right about it being the high water mark.
As a YJ owner, I agree the TJ is probably peak Wrangler. I still love my YJ though.
Pretty much everybody agrees that the TJ is peak Wrangler, except maybe the interior.
The interior has everything you need and nothing you don’t.
Sometimes I really miss my old TJ.
I loved my (rusty) TJ but my 2012 JK is a much better and more comfortable over the road driver. I did like the 4.0 more than the 3.6 though, particularly the sound of it when winding it up, and that low RPM torque was heavenly.
It’s not that simple – if you take it in, they will reflash it. You can specifically tell them not to apply any recall flashes but once you let them do one, they’ll do all of them. Flashes are cumulative, so you won’t get the fix for your random airbag explosions (for example) without the clutch slippage detection.
It is hilarious how the manufacturers try to create a software flash for a mechanical issue. Clutch slipping, no problem, we’ll create a software flash that looks for it through indirect means rather than actually fix the mechanical issue. Anything to get through the warranty period.
The third generation Dodge Dakota had multiple issues with front-end suspension wear. Why do I mention this? The Dakota had suspension parts that met the specifications required by DaimlerChrysler. From a standpoint of ‘meeting the demanded specification’, these parts were acceptable and the failure rate was ‘within spec’. From a customer perspective, the high rate of replacement was an unacceptable as compared to competitive vehicles.
With the new Jeep, I suspect the clutch was undersized for such a heavy and hard-use application for various reasons. The clutch may have met specifications demanded by FCA, but that may not reflect reality of its hardest users. I noticed the bulk of the mentioned Jeeps mentioned are 4-door versions. Perhaps a coincidence and a product of the proportional number of them sold, but it does make one wonder.
While a computer algorithm to determine the possibility of clutch slipping and impending failure is an intriguing idea from a theoretical point of view, the fact that I’ve not encountered it on any other vehicle intended for personal use seems to indicate the idea may need some more refinement. Generally a bad clutch makes itself known fairly obviously, nor was an algorithm required previously for most drivers.
Now, I don’t know the root cause for sure and I’ll admit that wholeheartedly.
DPS6 used algorithm to control shifting, engagement and slip energy, and predict overheating/wear and look how well that went.
Lmaooo quality North American manufacturing there. Listen, as much as I know newer vehicles are better to live with (?), safer, etc. The reason I want a 70 series LC is because at least I know it will work even when the klms start to climb. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, reliability is the greatest luxury. How is a Wrangler not one of the most reliable vehicles with how long they’ve been built.
I would kill to be able to get a 70 series in the US…
The interesting thing is…… They used to be one of the most reliable vehicles. 1946-1986 CJs and 1987-2006 Wranglers are extremely long lived, reliable, and well built machines.
Then they went straight down the toilet. IMO, most vehicles went straight down the toilet at about that time.
Probably a by product of trying to make manual transmissions idiot proof. I had a 2016 Dart that was rather difficult to drive. Removal of the clutch delay valve helped a lot. Removing it prevented unwanted slip during start and spirited driving. It made the pedal feel so numb that the engagement point was indiscernible. Wouldnt be surprised if the jeep is the same style system.
You also removed the CDV with the BMW E46 3-series models. With the CDV connected, you felt like a noob driving a manual transmission.
The cdv on my e46 back in 2001 was so frustrating. You remove it, you void the warranty. You keep it, the clutch engagement is a mystery at every stoplight.
I did mine post-warranty. It made a huge difference.
Toyota did the same thing with the newer Tacoma clutch,they installed a restriction device to slow the flow of fluid to the slave cylinder thus slowing the engagement.
Most people remove the device and then have a normal feeling/acting clutch.
For James’ situation–perhaps a dashcam and/or interior recording would do the trick, to demonstrate the problem?
I mean, I unfortunately sympathize on both sides of the “could not replicate” problem, having often served as tech support for friends and family for computers.
Good article, thank you!
The “software fix” where all Jeep had to do was replace the slipping clutch assemblies with appropriate spec clutch assemblies is really dumb.
The service bulletin language is really dumb too: “there is no defective part, just an incorrect spec.” That spec being insufficient pressure plate force to prevent slipping. So … defective for the application.
Anyhow, thanks again for this writeup.
Really sucks for the people having to deal with this.
As most folks who have ever had to deal with FCA/Stellantis professionally know…this is hardly a surprise. They’ve managed to put out some adequate vehicles, but that company is a disaster from the top down. Not saying there aren’t plenty of smart, hardworking people there, but it’s a train wreck of a company.
They weren’t built for driving on sand. The were built to navigate mall parking lots.
It’s a Jeep thing, you wouldn’t understand.
You’re only half joking. I would bet that Stellantis is rolling the dice on cutting costs by cheaping out wherever they think they can get away with it. They probably know that the vast majority of Jeeps don’t see any terrain that a Prius couldn’t handle.
It happens because FCA is extremely cheap. End of discussion.
I’m calling bull on how difficult it is to use the AL6 though. I don’t have much stick shift driving experience but having driven Wrangler’s with both the NSG & AL6, they were the easiest sticks to use. Super easy to get accustomed to the clutch, the bite point, etc. I’ve stalled both 5.7/TR6060 Challenger’s I’ve tried to just move in a parking lot before, and I put that down to pairing a twin disc to the gutless 5.7. Haven’t stalled a JL/JT yet.
Kind of surprised to see Aisin as the transmission manufacturer. The AW4 and AX15 were bulletproof.
But there’s nothing wrong with the transmission at all!
And even if the clutch itself is Aisin, if its pressure spec is for a sedan or compact instead of a big truck like vehicle that’s not Aisin’s fault, but rather Stellantis’ fault for putting in the wrong/too weak a unit.
Yeah I was surprised to see Aisin failing at a simple and time tested design when it has a reputation to make solid automatic and CVT transmissions.
The AX15 is one of the good successes for Jeep transmissions. They are generally regarded as the best five-speed transmission ever installed into a Jeep. They are an excellent gearbox, and remain in production by Aisin-Warner and are available from Novak, new, in their most improved version.
I wonder if the peaky nature of modern engines is contributing to this. Less low end torque and more clutch slipping to compensate, then the pressure plate and flywheel get glazed and the problem compounds.
I don’t think so.
Some engineer at Jeep may have intentionally decreased the pressure plate pressure to try to smooth things out in a shocking display of stupidity but I don’t think its down to the output of modern engines.
Any word from Todd about pedal feel from his aftermarket clutch? Maybe Jeep went with too weak of a pressure plate to lighten the clutch pedal?
I have no idea if this is the root cause behind this particular issue, but I can’t help noticing that lots of newer manual transmissions, even in trucks and performance cars, are engineered to be more “economy car like” in their operation. No more heavy pedals, no more super long throws on trucks, no more roughness in the shifts, no more noise, etc.
It does make me wonder if this pendulum has swung too far toward livability and away from durability. Maybe we should have more transmissions called “Rock Crusher” again rather than called “EZ Shift” or whatever the marketing people come up with now.
The TR6060 in my SS 1LE was good n’ stout. Not a heavy pedal, short throw but solid engagement. The twin disc setup rattled occasionally, and the 1-2 was a bit notchy until it warmed up but damn it was solid.
I consider the TR-6060 the last of the “old school” manuals and completely agree. The Viper application is simply the best manual I’ve ever driven.
I had a 13 320i I leased new and while it shifted pretty nice it felt like the ECU and the transmission were not on the same page half the time. Its almost like they want the manuals to be bad enough that nobody buys them.
I think it’s more a case that automatics are the standard transmission now and the take rate is so low for manuals that it’s not worth ironing everything out completely during development.
I wonder if Stellantis is planning on pushing Jeep owners from an manual v. auto decision to auto v. EV? Why bother fixing the manual if they can slowly discontinue them until they just quietly stop selling them? If you don’t want an EV Jeep, you’ll have to get an auto transmission. Sounds distopian, but anything is possible.
Flipside: YJ & JK prices will skyrocket, including aftermarket parts support!
I don’t think they’re actively pushing owners, just putting more resources in other things. Weirdos like us are becoming a less and less financially viable market so companies are treating us as such.
Make double clutching great again! Then again, that sucks even more in stop and go traffic. Never mind.
I agree. My GR86 had the worst clutch I ever experienced—completely inconsistent engagement with virtually no feel. With about 850k miles of driving manuals at the time I bought it, I felt like I was a learner for the first time since I was a . . . no, pretty much for the first time as I had an easier time with my 240Z as a learner. A change of clutch pedal return spring made a big difference, if not promoting it to anything special, so I think the problem is that they compromised feel to reduce effort for the wusses even though this is intended as a driver’s car, not a commuter (though I also use it as such). Terrible e-throttle calibration isn’t a help, either. That said, my Focus ST had a lot more torque and at lower rpm, so the clutch had to do more, yet it also had much better feel with only a little heavier effort I found to be no problem whatsoever in Boston traffic. Maybe there’s a fine balance required between providing feel and reducing effort that some balance better than others. Seems an easy decision if I were an OEM: a manual driver today has gone out of their way to choose that transmission and is going to prefer feel over super low effort, so start there.
I wonder if “profound knowledge” (that’s Ed Deming terminology) was lost over the years. Manuals are an ever decreasing fraction of vehicle sales. Somebody needs to ask David Tracy if the old guy at Jeep/AMC/Chrysler/Daimler/Cerberus/Stellantis who did clutches for 40 years retired. No way these clutches should be slipping out in 4Low with all the gear reduction.
David Tracy reported that issue on this site (or Jalopnik) when he was recalling being tasked with developing the cooling system for the JL Wrangler. There had been a “brain drain” at Chrysler due to incentivized retirements of expensive senior employees and people being shuffled into different departments. There were no set procedures for figuring out the amount of cooling capacity a vehicle needed, so the JL team basically started from scratch. I tried to find the article, but Google couldn’t find it.
Ugh. I thought it was bad when the bearing in the clutch pedal linkage on the TJ Wrangler (that I’d bought new) went out and had to have the whole clutch master cylinder + linkage assembly replaced under warranty in the second year that I owned it. (And the dealer even tried to weasel out of covering it, too.) That was back in the dark Daimler-Chrysler days…
This really seems like corners were cut in design choices of the whole clutch assembly. Either the pressure plate is failing to do its job and allowing the clutch to slip under load, or the pedal feel is so vague that owners can’t tell if it’s slipping too much or not as they use the clutch. Or maybe both. Either way, clutches are a solved problem — this design is simply not up to the task it’s being put to.
Huh. That pressure plate looks WAY worse than the one I just saw in my high-mileage Roadster—and I had been abusing it for months. I wonder if by chance Jeep has a restriction in the hydraulic clutch line to try to lessen shock load? That slows engagement down and maybe could result in all those visible hot spots. *pure speculation *
If someone who has been driving on beaches for 30 years gets hit with the limp mode, I don’t think much of their engineering
The “Jeep Wave” is apparently a one finger salute to the owners.
Under the new company it’s more like the Peugeot Piss-Off
Solid write-up and I love that the headline is David Tracy bait. One note: two graphics that are nearly identical with slightly different text need something highlighting the very small change in the graphic. Like zoom in on the change or something.
A friend of mine had this exact issue in his (I believe) 2018 Wrangler, funnily enough while driving it on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. He went the aftermarket route as well when replacing all the components and has not had any more issues that I have heard about even when driving it cross country to the mountains of California and in the snow there.
That must be a Jeep thing, because I really don’t understand how that’s supposed to work.
“We built a faulty assembly, now we’re gonna update your software to try to make it work (sorta)”
Between this, Fiat 500 automatics exploding, 4Xe issues, The Dodge Hornet, 5.7 Hemi self-eating camshafts, and so many more recent issues that don’t seem to be covered by recalls, the current Stellantis customer service model really seems to be “Gaslight, Gatekeep, Girl-boss”
I don’t understand how we get to the conclusion that it’s not defective if it can break through overheating under normal expected use cases?
Nor can I understand how a software fix resolves the clutch plate breaking.
You see it’s not defective at all! It’s a mechanical fuse designed to break before the engine or transfer case because that’s totally a great thing for longevity and reliability. It’s a jeep thing you wouldn’t understand (/s, of course)
I think it means the part was built to a requested spec and without manufacturing defects. The spec was poorly defined and not suitable for the application.
Ah, thank you. I understand, from a component-view, yes.
From a system-wide-view, no, the transmission isn’t fit for purpose.
To your other point about how does SW fix the issue, I’m guessing they created an artificial flywheel via engine management, or maybe in other words some kind of rev matching paradigm. Based on sensor data for rpm, current/last gear, clutch toggle, engine load, and whatever else they reduce or increase the time it would take for the clutch to go from open to slipping to fully engaged, or maybe change engine response to encourage you to up or downshift more/less.
The non-rhetorical answer: The valve restriction, to provide better on-street feel and minimize risk of car stalling when getting it moving off the line, is a liability on off-road driving, where the expectation (should) be that the driver actually means it when he hits the clutch hard or lets go of it. Rapidly releasing the clutch when the truck’s on an incline isn’t great for it, but it’s better than slowly releasing it and having the truck fall back a few feet more, which the user will (undoubtedly) try to mitigate simply by hitting the gas harder, thus increasing the friction as the RPM’s go up. Yes, you might twist a driveshaft/break a U-joint/whatever else if you let off the clutch too fast, but that should be the driver’s choice.
So Jeep software guys probably took into account the 99% use case on-road – if there’s a meaningful delta between engine RPM and driveshaft speed after factoring in the gear ratio, the delta is accounted for as heat/friction loss and likely gets a point value. Rack up too many points and the truck probably assumes you’re riding the clutch or that the clutch is slipping due to wear and goes into limp-home mode. This is one of those ideas that actually probably makes sense on pavement, but will thoroughly hash things off-road.
Thus, the software mitigation to reset the counter more frequently. It’s not going to fix the clutch plate breaking, but it should fix the comp going into limp-home mode when it shouldn’t.
That said, these transmissions are only rated for something like 275 foot-pounds of torque, which isn’t a helluva lot. The Aisin R150 Toyota’s been chucking into generations of manual 4Runners and Tacos and T100’s was rated at 220, and you almost never hear of one of those failing (usually it’ll just break something further down, like a U-joint, when you’re getting peppy with things).
TLDR: Jeep tried to be smart about doing something to prevent catastrophic loss on-road, created big problems for people who actually take trucks off-road.