Good morning! We’ve doubled our price cap again today, and we’re all the way up to eight grand. And as it turns out, $8,000 “normie” cars are even more boring than $4,000 ones, so we’re going to look at a couple of classics. Specifically, two imperfect but drivable classics that you could be proud to show off right away, and even more proud to show your progress fixing their flaws.
Yesterday we looked at two cars that might seem similar on paper, but have almost nothing in common in reality. This was another Showdown that I expected to go a different way based on the comments; I thought the Cult of the AMC Eagle had the numbers to pull off a win. But no; despite an impressive showing, the everything-including-the-kitchen-sink Eagle lost to the BMW X3.
That’s the way I would go, too. That Eagle isn’t the right one; I’m just not that interested in a wagon with an automatic. If it were an SX/4 hatchback with a manual, I might have gone the other way, but it wasn’t. Not to mention the fact that I’m not taking on a project car built by some Southeast Portland bartender or barista or whatever. I’ve met too many of them.
A lot of car enthusiasts, including quite a few of my colleagues here, buy cars with the assumption that they’ll sell them eventually. It’s common practice; hell, plenty of companies have built whole business models around it. The idea is rarely to make money; usually it’s just to have your fun with a car, then sell it and go have fun with something else. I’ve done it myself plenty of times. But once I got my MGB GT, I knew I had something I wanted to keep. I’ve had it for almost nine years, longer than any car I’ve ever owned, and I can’t imagine giving it up now. I’ve put too much of myself into it. And the same goes for my old Chevy truck. It’s mine, and that’s just all there is to it.
There’s a comfort in keeping a car around for years. You know how it sounds, how it feels, what to expect of it, what’s been fixed and what hasn’t. You can go back through old photos of it and see the changes, and reflect on what you’ve accomplished. Finding a car that’s a “keeper” is not always easy, but you know one when you see it. I think the two I’ve found for you today have that potential. Let’s take a look.
1964 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia – $8,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1600 cc overhead valve flat 4, four-speed manual, RWD
Location: Burien, WA
Odometer reading: 99,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
For a long time, if someone just said “Volkswagen,” you didn’t have to ask what model they meant. It was a Beetle. That’s all they made. In 1955, VW introduced its second model: a 2+2 coupe designed by Ghia in Italy and built by Karmann, unimaginatively named the Karmann Ghia. It’s not much different from the Beetle under its sleek bodywork, so you can’t really call it a sports car, but it sure does look the part. The Karmann Ghia’s styling is unmistakable, and stayed pretty much the same throughout its twenty-year run, except for a few details.
This ’64 Ghia is powered by a newer engine, a 1600 cc dual-port unit from 1971. It runs great, and has a new starter and a new carb. It should have a little more oomph than the stock engine, and of course, the sky’s the limit when it comes to upgrading these things. It has the typical four-speed Volkswagen manual transaxle, which of course can be beefed-up and modified as well.
The interior needs a little work; the seats need re-covering and there’s a big gaping hole where a stereo should be. On cars this old, I can’t help wondering how many units have been installed in that space over the years: probably a Becker radio originally, then a Kraco 8-track in the ’70s, followed by a Blaupunkt tape deck in the ’80s. It comes with a radio-delete plate, if for some reason you’d rather just cover up the hole.
The seller believes the paint is original, and it’s a good color for this car. It does have a little rust, most prominently on the passenger’s side rocker panel, and there’s also a bad spot in the floor behind the passenger’s seat that needs repair. But for a sixty-year-old car, it’s pretty damn clean.
1965 Ford Thunderbird – $7,900
Engine/drivetrain: 390 cubic inch overhead valve V8, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: El Monte, CA
Odometer reading: 138,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Ford’s Thunderbird started out as a two-seat convertible with a removable hard top, often compared to the original Chevy Corvette. But the two cars took very different paths after their first generations: the Corvette got sportier and faster, while the Thunderbird grew and got more comfortable. By the time this fourth-generation T-Bird was built, it was aimed at the emerging personal luxury coupe market, competing with the likes of the Buick Riviera and Pontiac Grand Prix. It’s a four-seat coupe with a big, powerful engine and lots of cool styling touches.
The big V8 in question is Ford’s FE series, displacing 390 cubic inches. It’s backed by a three-speed Cruise-O-Matic transmission, the only gearbox available. The Thunderbird hadn’t been available with a manual since 1960, and wouldn’t be again until the 1984 Turbo Coupe. We don’t get much information about this one’s condition, but the seller does say it runs and drives well.
The interior is the best part of this generation Thunderbird, and this one is in good shape. It has a lot of cool features, like the “Tilt Away” steering column, lots of shiny trim, and some of the coolest gauges of the era. The upholstery is in nice shape, and the trim looks like it’s all there, which is good because I don’t know where you’d find that stuff these days. Unfortunately, someone cut a hole in the dash for a modern stereo. Hopefully it sounds good, because it sure looks like hell.
The outside looks pretty good, though there is some surface rust along the front edge of the hood. You could probably just clean it up and repaint the hood, and leave the rest alone. The ’65 Thunderbird also marked the debut of Ford’s cool sequential turn signals, a feature that has come back into fashion on the Mustang in recent years.
Some classic cars are best left to the speculators; I don’t know about any of you, but I wouldn’t want to own a really rare or valuable car. I have a metric that I call the “coffee cup test: Am I willing to set a coffee cup on the roof? If not, it’s too precious to enjoy. These would both pass the coffee cup test, but they’d also turn heads at a car meet. Which one earns a spot in your theoretical garage?
(Image credits: sellers)
The vote was easy for me. My 9 year daughter loves Karmann-Ghias so I’d have to get that one
Both!!
I have a KG rc car I finished but have yet to drive, so my internet money goes to it.
But that tbird is mighty cool!
Thunderbird all day long. The one piece Karmann-Ghia (seriously, no body seams as standard) with rust scares me.
This may be blasphemy, but the Ghia just strikes me as a factory kit car on a Beetle. Not worth $8k.
That T-bird interior seems like a great place to spend time, so it’s an easy vote.
Karmann Ghias make for great EV conversions. They’re efficient.
Can’t go wrong with a V8 swap or maybe flat-6 from a Porsche 911, either.
I voted with my heart instead of my head today. I like the Ghia. I grew up in Burien (well, until I was 9) and saw my first K-G there when I was around 7 or 8. It was so different I asked my mom what it was. My mom wasn’t a car person (although mom and dad owned an MG A before I was born) but her eyes lit up and she sang the praises of this car, because, I think, she thought it was cute. So for nostalgia alone, I’d get the Ghia. But, wow, that T-Bird interior is awfully nice.
Manual transmission for the win. I’d take the KG over the TB. The Karmann would be easier to park and more fun to drive. Toss a Leatherman in the glovebox and you can pretty much fix anything that breaks. I can pull the engine with a buddy and wouldn’t even need an engine lift. If I decided to go crazy, drop in a Porsche engine and have myself a nice little sleeper. The seats? That’s a one-day job to fix them up. Plus, I’ve always wanted a Karmann Ghia.
This is a hard one. A couple cool Tbird facts- those sequential turn signals used a mechanical setup! Very complicated to fix. Also 65 introduced front disc brakes, using a (for the time) massive 4-piston caliper. Harder to find aftermarket wheels that fit!
Flip me the bird for this one.
Does it need said? Give me that V8 cruiser, particularly with the body and interior in this condition.
That said, that Ghia body looks to be one of the best I’ve seen recently and could make a great toy with little work. Plus, when was the last time you heard an air cooled VW engine? I have not seen a Beetle on the road regularly since the late ’80s.
I’ve got a VW nerd for a neighbor, in the summer it’s not uncommon to see a bus, a Karmann and a Beetle all street parked in front of their house.
I like them both…The T-Bird is just so much more substantial!
And 4 times the displacement!
I really want a both option today. Love the mid-mod styling of the T-Bird and I have an unhealthy obsession with PLCs. But a couple of weeks ago I watched this video of a very nicely resto-modded KG and have wanted one since. So slight edge to the VW.
Not sure if that fuel filter on the Karmann Ghia is new (the color of either the plastic or the fuel inside seems a little iffy) but it does give one pause that it’s just hovering over the distributor with nary a hose clamp in sight. The braided-fiber-wrapped hose as found on vintage German cars is supposed to be capable of holding on without the need for clamps, not unlike the finger traps kids get at Scholastic book fairs, but why take any chances? Also, such hose has turned out to be quite problematic over the last decade or two or so due to a decline in the quality of materials used, the formulation of modern gasoline (with ethanol, etc, etc), or both. So it’d behoove whoever gets that Ghia to rectify the fuel filter situation tout de suite so as to avoid an unfortunate conflagration all too common to vintage air-cooled VWs.
Edit: whaddya know, JT has actually covered this issue re: German braided hoses, over at the Old Site: https://jalopnik.com/why-do-braided-fuel-lines-suck-so-much-am-i-missing-so-1745317223
Props for sliding a Toot Sweet in there!
Now we’re getting into “both” territory
Same. Very different cars but I like them a lot. I don’t think you could go wrong with either. I want the T-bird because it exudes Americana. It’s large and in charge with a delightfully garish interior. You won’t see me throw any shade at something as beautiful as a Karmann Ghia, however.
That T-bird is effortlessly cool.
The Ghia would be an ideal stablemate for my 69 T2. I think they might even be the same color!
I wanted to pick the Ghia but I don’t like the look of that crease in front of the front wheel and whatever is going on by the rear tail light. Plus the T-Bird is cheaper and so much closer to being finished. If that Ghia were $4K I’d bite.
That’s what I thought too on the front. I think it’s been hit judging from that crease (body filler cracking?) and the ill-fitting hood. $4k is pretty reasonable for that car.
Square Birds are nice, but give me a Bullet Bird and I’ll be set for life.
I would also rather have a Bullet Bird. Or a nice Aero Bird with a 302!
Wrap It Up with the Fabulous Thunderbird. The Ghia is not Tuff Enuff.
COTD worthy.
*Also I now have an earworm.
I would walk ten miles on my hands and knees
But in a fabulous Thunderbird I could drive it with ease
It’s an old classic and really square
It’s a auto V8 with lots of flair
Ain’t that tough enough?
Ain’t that tough enough?
Max’s irrelevant fact of the day: I played a pick-up game of basketball against Kim Wilson when I was in college and got a big time rejection on one of his shots. Of course he is about 5’8″ and I’m 6’2″…
Guessing that’s in reference to a song lyric?
In any case, this sums up the point of driving a Karmann Ghia: http://stories.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/image-18469.jpg
And it’s underscored by this memorable commercial involving a paper wall: https://youtu.be/EiBNtGSzrp4?si=sCezVM1ZEbGyZPnc
Thanks for posting that commercial as I don’t even remember it
Quickly scrolled down and picked the Ghia without even reading. Have admired them for a long time but always seem to end up with British sports cars instead. Only wish this one was a more interesting color, like orange, green, or yellow. Ok, back to the article…
I learned to drive on a 66 TBird. Light blue metallic over matching vinyl. What a sled. Love the KG too, How about both?
I’ve always loved the look of the vw. The luxo barge never really appealled. Plus the ghia would actually fit in my garage and would not require a mortgage to gas up. As my dad called them, the poor man’s Porsche wannabe for the win today.
In those old air-cooled VWs the battery was under the rear seat behind the passenger. Wasn’t terribly uncommon to see one going down the road with that battery trying to escape under there. One of the very first things you do is pull the rear seat bench to inspect the corrosion.
In the Ghias, you always check that pointy nose: didn’t take much of a bump to flatten it, and many got ‘restored’ with wire screen & bondo.
Still voted for it—pending a once-over
Something about the big classic American styling just speaks to me more than the VW. While I get that lots of people love the styling of the VW I just like the Ford more. I’d buy either as a cruiser and in that regard I think the Ford would be the better choice.
Absolutely. I grew up in air-cooled VWs and still love them, but they were never cruisers from the factory.
Around 2010 I replaced the braking system on a one-owner, garage-kept 73 Super Beetle. The nicest bug I’d ever driven or likely will: near showroom perfect. And yet, I was struck by how tinny and noisy it was. I’d been driving 80s Mercedes diesels for a few years by then, and almost felt uncomfortable in traffic piloting that SB.
I still love them, just no longer yearn for one (unless a Baja or Class 11: you’re still gonna die, but the hilarity will be worth it).
I’m actually the opposite – I find this generation of the T-bird to be not very attractive, whereas the Karmann Ghia is pleasant to behold.
Maybe it’s all the chrome on the T-bird’s beak. Something about it just doesn’t do it for me (although I am a fan of the mid ’50s Chevys).
I’d actually take a mid to late ’70s T-bird over this generation any day. Better yet a ’90s SC, or a first gen two seater.
T-bird! I’d like to be able to get up to highway speed some time this year, and it probably has AC.
The Thunderchicken does have AC, but it may or may not work. It doesn’t appear to have a refrigerant update sticker, and lives in a place where it’s not as essential. That said, it’s basically a hang on unit integrated into the dash so it shouldn’t be hard to resurrect.
That T-bird will run above highway speed till the tank goes dry. Which may not take long….
I can see this one being a close race.
Both would make wonderful weekend cruisers, but the VW is one that I could see myself driving on a far more regular basis.