Good morning! We’ve doubled our price cap again today, and we’re all the way up to eight grand. And as it turns out, $8,000 “normie” cars are even more boring than $4,000 ones, so we’re going to look at a couple of classics. Specifically, two imperfect but drivable classics that you could be proud to show off right away, and even more proud to show your progress fixing their flaws.
Yesterday we looked at two cars that might seem similar on paper, but have almost nothing in common in reality. This was another Showdown that I expected to go a different way based on the comments; I thought the Cult of the AMC Eagle had the numbers to pull off a win. But no; despite an impressive showing, the everything-including-the-kitchen-sink Eagle lost to the BMW X3.
That’s the way I would go, too. That Eagle isn’t the right one; I’m just not that interested in a wagon with an automatic. If it were an SX/4 hatchback with a manual, I might have gone the other way, but it wasn’t. Not to mention the fact that I’m not taking on a project car built by some Southeast Portland bartender or barista or whatever. I’ve met too many of them.
A lot of car enthusiasts, including quite a few of my colleagues here, buy cars with the assumption that they’ll sell them eventually. It’s common practice; hell, plenty of companies have built whole business models around it. The idea is rarely to make money; usually it’s just to have your fun with a car, then sell it and go have fun with something else. I’ve done it myself plenty of times. But once I got my MGB GT, I knew I had something I wanted to keep. I’ve had it for almost nine years, longer than any car I’ve ever owned, and I can’t imagine giving it up now. I’ve put too much of myself into it. And the same goes for my old Chevy truck. It’s mine, and that’s just all there is to it.
There’s a comfort in keeping a car around for years. You know how it sounds, how it feels, what to expect of it, what’s been fixed and what hasn’t. You can go back through old photos of it and see the changes, and reflect on what you’ve accomplished. Finding a car that’s a “keeper” is not always easy, but you know one when you see it. I think the two I’ve found for you today have that potential. Let’s take a look.
1964 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia – $8,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1600 cc overhead valve flat 4, four-speed manual, RWD
Location: Burien, WA
Odometer reading: 99,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
For a long time, if someone just said “Volkswagen,” you didn’t have to ask what model they meant. It was a Beetle. That’s all they made. In 1955, VW introduced its second model: a 2+2 coupe designed by Ghia in Italy and built by Karmann, unimaginatively named the Karmann Ghia. It’s not much different from the Beetle under its sleek bodywork, so you can’t really call it a sports car, but it sure does look the part. The Karmann Ghia’s styling is unmistakable, and stayed pretty much the same throughout its twenty-year run, except for a few details.
This ’64 Ghia is powered by a newer engine, a 1600 cc dual-port unit from 1971. It runs great, and has a new starter and a new carb. It should have a little more oomph than the stock engine, and of course, the sky’s the limit when it comes to upgrading these things. It has the typical four-speed Volkswagen manual transaxle, which of course can be beefed-up and modified as well.
The interior needs a little work; the seats need re-covering and there’s a big gaping hole where a stereo should be. On cars this old, I can’t help wondering how many units have been installed in that space over the years: probably a Becker radio originally, then a Kraco 8-track in the ’70s, followed by a Blaupunkt tape deck in the ’80s. It comes with a radio-delete plate, if for some reason you’d rather just cover up the hole.
The seller believes the paint is original, and it’s a good color for this car. It does have a little rust, most prominently on the passenger’s side rocker panel, and there’s also a bad spot in the floor behind the passenger’s seat that needs repair. But for a sixty-year-old car, it’s pretty damn clean.
1965 Ford Thunderbird – $7,900
Engine/drivetrain: 390 cubic inch overhead valve V8, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: El Monte, CA
Odometer reading: 138,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Ford’s Thunderbird started out as a two-seat convertible with a removable hard top, often compared to the original Chevy Corvette. But the two cars took very different paths after their first generations: the Corvette got sportier and faster, while the Thunderbird grew and got more comfortable. By the time this fourth-generation T-Bird was built, it was aimed at the emerging personal luxury coupe market, competing with the likes of the Buick Riviera and Pontiac Grand Prix. It’s a four-seat coupe with a big, powerful engine and lots of cool styling touches.
The big V8 in question is Ford’s FE series, displacing 390 cubic inches. It’s backed by a three-speed Cruise-O-Matic transmission, the only gearbox available. The Thunderbird hadn’t been available with a manual since 1960, and wouldn’t be again until the 1984 Turbo Coupe. We don’t get much information about this one’s condition, but the seller does say it runs and drives well.
The interior is the best part of this generation Thunderbird, and this one is in good shape. It has a lot of cool features, like the “Tilt Away” steering column, lots of shiny trim, and some of the coolest gauges of the era. The upholstery is in nice shape, and the trim looks like it’s all there, which is good because I don’t know where you’d find that stuff these days. Unfortunately, someone cut a hole in the dash for a modern stereo. Hopefully it sounds good, because it sure looks like hell.
The outside looks pretty good, though there is some surface rust along the front edge of the hood. You could probably just clean it up and repaint the hood, and leave the rest alone. The ’65 Thunderbird also marked the debut of Ford’s cool sequential turn signals, a feature that has come back into fashion on the Mustang in recent years.
Some classic cars are best left to the speculators; I don’t know about any of you, but I wouldn’t want to own a really rare or valuable car. I have a metric that I call the “coffee cup test: Am I willing to set a coffee cup on the roof? If not, it’s too precious to enjoy. These would both pass the coffee cup test, but they’d also turn heads at a car meet. Which one earns a spot in your theoretical garage?
(Image credits: sellers)
I thought I’d go for the K-G – Thunderbirds have never excited me very much. But that interior is pretty exciting and you get to look at it every minute you’re driving it, so T-Bird it is.
I really dig the square, early – mid 60’s styling of this gen T-Bird. I can see cruising in this thing in a suit and skinny tie, cosplaying Don Draper. (I know he never actually drove one).
The interior is really nice too. My one pause on this one is that the outside looks a bit rough, but I don’t know the going rate for these.
The Ghia is lovely, but the VW-ness does nothing for me. At least the T-Bird should be able to do some sick burnouts.
Usually, I know before I even read the article which one I’m going to vote for. Occasionally, something in the article makes me change my mind, like a swarm of locusts in the interior.
I was originally all in for the Ghia, but that T-Bird interior is almost enough to go with. Tough call…
Young me would’ve jumped at the Karmann Ghia, but I really like that Thunderbird. Maybe not the most iconic version, but it’s still got presence. Dunno if it’s a “forever” car, but I’d like to clean it up and drive it.
But you now would be blinded by the interior of the T-Bird. Go back to your youth and we can haggle over the Ghia. Full disclosure: my first car was a rusty Karmann Ghia convertible. I still miss it with all its’ foibles.
If the T Bird was a convertible or Bullet Bird from ‘63 or earlier, I might’ve gone with the Ford. Going with the Kharmann Ghia instead, although I wish it was a convertible, too.
Fun Squarebird facts – the hydraulic wipers are driven by the power steering pump, and that
V8 canvacuum reservoir back by the right hand hood hinge is for the vent under the back window and central locking. Even with the unbridled fun of chasing the vacuum leaks and cross referencing part numbers from the Lincoln book, I’ll take the Bird any day – carrying around a sun dial to measure the Common Gear’s 0 – 60 time is a chore.I’m a VW guy through and through. Have a Ghia ‘vert and have owned and restored many VWs. I can tell you that one isn’t worth $8k no matter how nice the paint might appear.
That interior is terrifying for an $8000 Ghia coupe. I can’t be sure, but seeing how the hood fits and what appears to be a crack in the paint along the right front fender have me believing the front of this thing is 95% bondo with shiny paint on it. I’m calling foul on it being “original” paint because I’m not aware of any Ghias that had body color painted rear bumper supports as this one does. It may be the original color, but that car is about $5k worth of work away from being a $8k car. T-bird for me.
Initially I wanted the Karmann Ghia but the seats are gross and it looks like a rusty radio hole. Is the top removable? Would love to make noise in a straight line and cruise around with the top off that T-Bird.
I came for the Ghia and still would go that route, though knowing that the body on those is hand fitted and parts from other units rarely fits without massaging, I would definitely push for a reduced price because of the hidden rot in the body.
The T-Bird is not bad, it is just a year that I never really found interesting, except maybe Elvira’s convertible, and that is less because of the car, and more because of the tasteless mods she made.
Came for Ghia, left with T-bird. I also feel like Walter Sobchak: “You want a Ghia? I can get you a Ghia by 3 o’clock this afternoon. With paint.”OTOH, any Tbird sold locally in this condition feels like it’s gonna come from one of those “I know what I have!” people.
That T-bird would look great no matter where. With that 390 it’s possible to road trip, as long as a healthy gas budget is factored in. The KG is cute, but rust on a unibody-esque vehicle scares me. Time to go birding for me.
I saw the pics and expected to go Ghia but was swayed to the T-bird. Both are nostalgia adjacent to me (my Dad had a ‘72 super beetle and my Mom had a ‘88 T-bird turbo coupe). Based on the rust issues with my Dads beetle I know that it’s a slow and loosing battle on VWs of this era. His eventually was used as an engine donor for another beetle. I have neither the skills or time to fight rust so T-bird for me.
I owned a ’69 KG back in college. As cool as they looked, they were almost totally devoid of driving enjoyment. I also know from experience that rocker panel rust is pernicious in these. Don’t even think about buying one unless it’s in near perfect condition and rust free. Unfortunately, near perfect KGs are more expensive than they’re worth. OTOH, I was about 10 years old when this generation Thunderbird hit the streets and I thought they were the coolest thing on the road. Still do, at least from that era. So I’m going with the Thunderbird.
The Karmann Ghia is undeniably cool, but I love the interior of the T-Bird. I normally don’t go for Whorehouse Red but it just looks right on this car. Add in the gauges, the horizontal speedometer, the amazing back seats, and the logos on the front seats and it’s the kind of car I’d want to sit in while it was in the driveway going nowhere. (OK, that modern stereo was a huge mistake, and I’m not sure what to do about that.) Plus, you get a big ol’ V-8. Put a little elbow grease into the surface rust, a cheap coat of paint, and it’ll be ready to cruise.
Modern stereo isn’t great I agree. But pull it out and cover the hole with a decorative piece of metal, get your buddies to help tinker on it. Allow everyone who works on your car to sign the “plaque”. Then it becomes a memento of the cars history and good times hanging with the buds.
There you go – that’s a good idea.
One word: Thundercougarfalconbird.
r/unexpectedfuturama
I voted for the Ford. I am a big fan of air cooled VW products, but the Thunderbird appears to be in substantially better condition then the Ghia. I like a car with minor imperfections, so the condition of this vehicle is about perfect and I would drive it as is. I also love the red interior; it is unfortunate brightly colored interiors and chrome trim are a thing of the past.
Normally, I would take the weird euro car over a Boomer Cruiser but I do like this Thunderbird.
Mid-60s T-birds are underrated and underpriced, so T-bird for me.
Tough choice – I like both of them.
Hey, I really enjoy Shitbox Showdown. It must be hard to come up with this stuff sometimes, but it’s appreciated. It’s as much a part of my morning as a cup of coffee.
Thanks! I’m glad you enjoy it.
You’re doing good work, please keep it up. This is the main article I look forward to every day!
Oof. I fell asleep just thinking about that 60s T-Bird. It has the right color interior, but that’s about where the fun ends on this one.
The V-Dub is much more interesting.
These are both lovely, and I think great values. You’re really hitting me right in the feels today. I haven’t tried to sit in a Karmann Ghia hardtop as an adult, and I have my doubts that I’d fit. Which is too bad for me. So, I went with the Thunderbird, but that’s OK by me because it is cool as hell. The only generation of Thunderbird I like more, is the immediately preceding ones with the jet tail lights. But you wouldn’t be able to wipe the smile off of my face while cruising that ’65 around. Signalling EVERY move I make 🙂
A high-school buddy had a resto-modded KG in the mid to late 80s. My main memory of it was getting pulled over by the local cops because we were cruising around the old hometown with six (!) people in it. Of course, that was a combo of skinny high-schoolers and petite girls, but I was already 6’3 at the time.
Today, that interior has enough space for me, my middle-aged gut, and an IPhone, but I still want one.
The Thunderbird is the better car/better value, but the KG is effing AWESOME!
I don’t know much about either of these, and I think both are pretty cool. But I’ve always loved Karmann Ghias so I voted for it.
A Karmann Ghia loved me once:
That bench in the back was just big enough to hold me, Kathy, and a quart of Boone’s Farm Apple Wine.
Her brother offered to drive us to a graduation party (1971) in his Ghia, bought the wine for us underaged teens, and drove the length of our island instead of dropping us right off.
He was about 5 years older, and he could tell we were having the time of our young lives just enjoying each other’s company. And that’s all we did.
And here I am writing about it 54 years later.
Thank you Steve, RIP.
That’s a lovely story.
Wow, reading you’re reminiscence got my in the feels! (honestly) Time passes so quickly.
And now I have to ask, did you and Kathy become Husband and Wife?
No, Gamblin’ Man. We didn’t make it that far, but we had a really nice relationship for a few years.
My best memory of my KG convertible was top down, Lake Drive, few if any street lamps, fluffy snow falling, brights on (LOL) 3 friends and some 60’s hashish. The snow in the headlights and the snow falling on out heads (when we had hair) was out of this world.
If you’ve never driven a Karmann Ghia fast, it’s definitely worth the terror. My buddy had a hopped up performance motor in his and at 80/90 miles an hour, you could feel it being like a lifting body and just start coming off of the road until there was no steering feel at all and then you back off and then you could feel it steering again. Just a wild sensation.