Good morning! We’ve doubled our price cap again today, and we’re all the way up to eight grand. And as it turns out, $8,000 “normie” cars are even more boring than $4,000 ones, so we’re going to look at a couple of classics. Specifically, two imperfect but drivable classics that you could be proud to show off right away, and even more proud to show your progress fixing their flaws.
Yesterday we looked at two cars that might seem similar on paper, but have almost nothing in common in reality. This was another Showdown that I expected to go a different way based on the comments; I thought the Cult of the AMC Eagle had the numbers to pull off a win. But no; despite an impressive showing, the everything-including-the-kitchen-sink Eagle lost to the BMW X3.
That’s the way I would go, too. That Eagle isn’t the right one; I’m just not that interested in a wagon with an automatic. If it were an SX/4 hatchback with a manual, I might have gone the other way, but it wasn’t. Not to mention the fact that I’m not taking on a project car built by some Southeast Portland bartender or barista or whatever. I’ve met too many of them.
A lot of car enthusiasts, including quite a few of my colleagues here, buy cars with the assumption that they’ll sell them eventually. It’s common practice; hell, plenty of companies have built whole business models around it. The idea is rarely to make money; usually it’s just to have your fun with a car, then sell it and go have fun with something else. I’ve done it myself plenty of times. But once I got my MGB GT, I knew I had something I wanted to keep. I’ve had it for almost nine years, longer than any car I’ve ever owned, and I can’t imagine giving it up now. I’ve put too much of myself into it. And the same goes for my old Chevy truck. It’s mine, and that’s just all there is to it.
There’s a comfort in keeping a car around for years. You know how it sounds, how it feels, what to expect of it, what’s been fixed and what hasn’t. You can go back through old photos of it and see the changes, and reflect on what you’ve accomplished. Finding a car that’s a “keeper” is not always easy, but you know one when you see it. I think the two I’ve found for you today have that potential. Let’s take a look.
1964 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia – $8,000
Engine/drivetrain: 1600 cc overhead valve flat 4, four-speed manual, RWD
Location: Burien, WA
Odometer reading: 99,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
For a long time, if someone just said “Volkswagen,” you didn’t have to ask what model they meant. It was a Beetle. That’s all they made. In 1955, VW introduced its second model: a 2+2 coupe designed by Ghia in Italy and built by Karmann, unimaginatively named the Karmann Ghia. It’s not much different from the Beetle under its sleek bodywork, so you can’t really call it a sports car, but it sure does look the part. The Karmann Ghia’s styling is unmistakable, and stayed pretty much the same throughout its twenty-year run, except for a few details.
This ’64 Ghia is powered by a newer engine, a 1600 cc dual-port unit from 1971. It runs great, and has a new starter and a new carb. It should have a little more oomph than the stock engine, and of course, the sky’s the limit when it comes to upgrading these things. It has the typical four-speed Volkswagen manual transaxle, which of course can be beefed-up and modified as well.
The interior needs a little work; the seats need re-covering and there’s a big gaping hole where a stereo should be. On cars this old, I can’t help wondering how many units have been installed in that space over the years: probably a Becker radio originally, then a Kraco 8-track in the ’70s, followed by a Blaupunkt tape deck in the ’80s. It comes with a radio-delete plate, if for some reason you’d rather just cover up the hole.
The seller believes the paint is original, and it’s a good color for this car. It does have a little rust, most prominently on the passenger’s side rocker panel, and there’s also a bad spot in the floor behind the passenger’s seat that needs repair. But for a sixty-year-old car, it’s pretty damn clean.
1965 Ford Thunderbird – $7,900
Engine/drivetrain: 390 cubic inch overhead valve V8, three-speed automatic, RWD
Location: El Monte, CA
Odometer reading: 138,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives well
Ford’s Thunderbird started out as a two-seat convertible with a removable hard top, often compared to the original Chevy Corvette. But the two cars took very different paths after their first generations: the Corvette got sportier and faster, while the Thunderbird grew and got more comfortable. By the time this fourth-generation T-Bird was built, it was aimed at the emerging personal luxury coupe market, competing with the likes of the Buick Riviera and Pontiac Grand Prix. It’s a four-seat coupe with a big, powerful engine and lots of cool styling touches.
The big V8 in question is Ford’s FE series, displacing 390 cubic inches. It’s backed by a three-speed Cruise-O-Matic transmission, the only gearbox available. The Thunderbird hadn’t been available with a manual since 1960, and wouldn’t be again until the 1984 Turbo Coupe. We don’t get much information about this one’s condition, but the seller does say it runs and drives well.
The interior is the best part of this generation Thunderbird, and this one is in good shape. It has a lot of cool features, like the “Tilt Away” steering column, lots of shiny trim, and some of the coolest gauges of the era. The upholstery is in nice shape, and the trim looks like it’s all there, which is good because I don’t know where you’d find that stuff these days. Unfortunately, someone cut a hole in the dash for a modern stereo. Hopefully it sounds good, because it sure looks like hell.
The outside looks pretty good, though there is some surface rust along the front edge of the hood. You could probably just clean it up and repaint the hood, and leave the rest alone. The ’65 Thunderbird also marked the debut of Ford’s cool sequential turn signals, a feature that has come back into fashion on the Mustang in recent years.
Some classic cars are best left to the speculators; I don’t know about any of you, but I wouldn’t want to own a really rare or valuable car. I have a metric that I call the “coffee cup test: Am I willing to set a coffee cup on the roof? If not, it’s too precious to enjoy. These would both pass the coffee cup test, but they’d also turn heads at a car meet. Which one earns a spot in your theoretical garage?
(Image credits: sellers)
Had to go with the Karmann Ghia. Always loved the look of them. It also helps that it’s one of two coupes my wife has ever expressed interest in. The other being a Dodge Neon.
I feel uniquely qualified to vote “Thunderbird” because I actually chose one as my “keep forever” car IRL (though mine is a ’66, so the nose is a bit different, but overall mostly the exact same car). I still have it, and intend to restore and drive it as long as I can.
That 390 FE V8 and C6 transmission are built like a tank, the car does not give a crap how poorly it’s been maintained or how many damaged components say it should not be running, it’ll run and get you to your destination anyway. It’s not like a Toyota where nothing ever goes wrong, more like a cockroach in that you simply can’t kill it, because it rebels against the very concept of obsolescence and wishes nothing more than to spite younger cars by outliving them.
When I got mine, it was running on 7 cylinders with low compression in all 8, valve guides shot, bearings toast, alternator and voltage regulator acting up, getting about 5 mpg (I had a short commute so didn’t mind) and taking 10 minutes to start… and I drove it that way for over a year, as my only car, because the car sure didn’t care or seem to even acknowledge that it was running so poorly. Didn’t even overheat, wasn’t terribly slow either, just kept going without a care in the world. Drove it all over the place and had tremendous fun.
How am I supposed to not just fall in love with persistence like that? Sure it’s great when your car rarely ever breaks, but how much more reassuring is it to know that your car will stubbornly persevere through every trial that comes its way, never giving up no matter how bad things may get? That’s the kind of car I’d trust to carry me through an apocalyptic wasteland – doesn’t matter that you can’t maintain it, the car never acknowledged death before, and the end of the world won’t change that.
I did eventually take the engine apart to rebuild it, and took some parts like the cylinder heads to specialists to be rebuilt, who told me those parts were in the worst condition they’d ever seen and it was baffling that the engine ran at all, let alone well enough to use. I take that as the ultimate compliment to the Ford 390 V8, it truly will run poorly longer than most engines will ever run.
Oh yeah, the rest of the car is great too – the reason I bought it in the first place was because of how beautiful it is. Photos don’t do it justice, I think it’s one of the prettiest American cars ever made. The beauty certainly doesn’t stop at the outside, as I love the interior design just as much; it’s a space-age masterpiece and supremely comfortable to sit in too. Additionally, I love that the driver’s turn signal indicators are mounted on the front fenders instead of the dashboard, called “telltale turn signals.” They let you see that your blinker is on without having to take your eyes off the road, and they’re also just really fun to see in action! Plus the sequential rear turn signals are the coolest turn signals of any car ever made, and I will die on this hill. Driving it is basically what you expect a classic American car to feel like, except that the factory brakes feel modern thanks to the front disks, and I like that. It’s floaty and the big engine is under-stressed, so once you get up to speed the car cruises effortlessly and just puts your mind at ease – the car feels relaxed, so you feel relaxed. When you get going REALLY fast, the car actually hunkers down and feels more stable, making it surprisingly competent even on modern highways, so you really can use it however you need to. Once you get used to the quirks of driving a classic Thunderbird, it’s genuinely comforting, just floating down the road listening to the deep soothing burble of that V8, window rolled down so you can rest your arm on the door… ahh, good times.
So yeah, I recommend the crap out of the Thunderbird, they are wonderful and affordable classic cars you can drive every day and get no worse gas mileage than modern pickup trucks do, while smiling a lot more as the stress melts away. Some of the best bang-for-your-buck in the classic car market right now, and going up in value, so get one while you can!
I initially wanted to vote for the VW, but the T-Bird is just in so much better condition I had to give it the thumbs up.
Came here to say the same thing. The T-Bird’s interior won me over. That is gorgeous while the KG’s interior is just depressing…
Gaia is fine, but that red interior! Why can’t we have interior colors anymore?
Normally I would go for the Thunderbird, my uncle had a ’66 and when i was a youngin’ I thought it was the coolest car in the world. But my dad, who was definitely not a car guy, owned two Ghia’s. A red ’62 convertible and a white ’66 coupe.
I don’t know how but he drove that ’66 for 12 years in the salty midwest without falling through the floor! I lost him last September, RIP pops.
At first it was a very hard choice. That Thunderbird interior is the clincher.
Easy, the T-Bird. Already have a Ghia. If I didn’t I wouldn’t be able to choose
Why would you show me that Karmann Ghia I could probably drive that home today
My kingdom for a spare $8000
That Eagle should have flown high…
I don’t like the wagons as much as the SX/4 hatchback with a manual (which is exactly what my brother used to have) but it’s was still awesome. Thunderbird for the win today…I’ve always liked that unique body style and interior…+V8! Even though it’s a Fix Or Repair Daily, there are certain classic Found On Road Dead’s that I still like. Also, always thought the Ghia’s were kinda ugly; would rather have a Bug or BUS!!!
I like them both, but I choose the T-Bird. I have always wanted a Karmann Ghia, but have reached the age where being comfortable matters, and I could see enjoying a long cruise in the T-Bird.
“Ford’s Thunderbird started out as a two-seat convertible with a removable hard top…”
Well, actually, when you ordered a new ’55 T Bird – You had the choice of either a removable hard top or a soft top. You had to pay more to get both.
I want the T Bird – because the interior is cleaner and I have a soft spot for White over Red Interior cars
Something is going on with the paint on the hood of that Thunderbird. Looks like it might have been in a collision and repaired in a half assed way.
My vote goes to the VW. For one thing, gas isn’t cheap anymore and the cost to drive and fuel the VW won’t be anywhere as bad as that Ford.
Just get the front seats redone and put in a decent stereo and it’s ready to roll.
And mechanically, I would drive it as is until the day comes the engine needs work again and then I’d look at replacing it with a 1776cc or 1915cc engine from an engine builder like this:
https://jcsvwparts.com/type-3-performance-turnkey/
it’s a damn shame someone cut a hole in the dash of the Tbird, but otherwise that interior is glorious and red and it’s my choice.
I hate in when people do that. Someone has done that to my Delta88 as well and it annoys the hell out of me.
That Ghia with the more powerful Beetle motor is the difference between beans and brussel sprouts. You can see them, hear them, even smell the difference but still can’t feel the difference
I started to write something about getting the Ghia and since it has already been engine swapped, going the whole modern Subaru engine route. Who am I kidding! I’d have to be a retiree to be able to devote that much time to something. Not to mention, this one is so clean it would be a shame to water cool it. Still picked it.
If I want a Thunderbird, my father in law has one sitting on his property with a dozen other old classic cars, in various states of disrepair. The last time I saw his ’60 T-bird, it looked great, aside from the hood being open and a bush growing where the engine once was.
The T-Bird is objectively cleaner (or at least better presented), but air cooled VWs are a disease I was exposed to early, so it’s Ghia for me.
Am I the only nerd who remembers random Bosch and Solex part number combos?
Air cooled VWs were a disease my step-father tried to infect me with, but I managed to shake it off. So it would have been the T-bird even it if looked worse, luckily this one doesn’t.
My best friend got exposed to air cooled VW disease ever since he was a kid. So when he got his 1st car at 18 it was a VW Beetle. Fast-forward 16 years later and he hasn’t owned anything else although his fiancée recently moved with him and brought a Chrysler 200 so I don’t know if that counts as a 2nd vehicle to him.
Anyway the disease hit him hard to the point of no return; he’s having it fully restored at the moment as he’s repeatedly mentioned he’ll never give up on it.
Finally a choice that hits me between the cars. Having owned a lot of VWs, mostly busses and still have a ’67 squareback, and a ’64 F100 that I grew up in that I still ahve, this one is a challenge. Working on the Ghia would be familiar and easy, whereas the T-bird would complement my trucks. Guess I’ll go with the T-Bird!
A really difficult choice today. I have been looking at getting a Karmann Ghia for a few years now so I will go with this as my choice but the T-Bird is a beautiful car that I have always liked and with that said, I like the 2nd version of the T-Bird over the classic original! For $8,000, I am not at all surprised at the condition of the interior of the Ghia as they keep climbing in price. However, this does provide perfect opportunity to make the interior how I would like it… The Karmann Ghia I could keep for years and years but the T-Bird would be gone in a year or two.