Welcome back! We’ve been getting a little big for our britches with the last couple of letters, so today we’re going to bring it back down to Earth with the letter L, and take a look at a couple of FWD luxury sedans. They’re both reasonably-priced, they both run well, and they were both built this century.
I don’t have access to our page-view metrics or anything, but I can see the vote and comment totals plain as day, and it’s obvious you weren’t big fans of yesterday’s choices. No problem; they can’t always be hits. Gassers seem to be a love-it-or-hate-it-style; I’ve always liked them because they look like cartoons come to life. But the majority of you chose the little Kurtis Kraft midget, and I respect that.
That would be my choice too, actually. The car, and the trailer it comes with, are light enough to pull easily with my truck, and there’s a dirt track not far from here – since my wife probably wouldn’t let me just rip around the backyard in it.
All right; let’s get back to something less expensive, and more modern. They say cheap luxury cars are never as good of a deal as they seem, but I think you could probably be safe with these two. They’re not that cheap, and they’re both pretty reliable. Let’s check them out.
2008 Lexus ES 350 – $4,900
Engine/drivetrain: 3.5 liter dual overhead cam V6, six-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Franklin Park, IL
Odometer reading: 137,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
The Lexus ES has always been overshadowed by the brand’s other models; it gets dismissed as nothing more than a fancy Camry. But honestly, what’s wrong with a fancy Camry? It’s comfortable and reliable, the sort of car you can just live with without any drama. And while it probably wasn’t a great value when it was new, because, well, the Camry exists, but all these years later, depreciation has closed the price gap and you might as well just go for the Lexus.
The ES grew over the years, along with the Camry. Its V6 engine grew as well; by the time it was in its fifth generation, it was all the way up to 3.5 liters. Earlier ES sedans were available with manual transmissions, though they were incredibly rare, so it’s no surprise that this one was available only with an automatic. These cars are known to just pile on the miles, so this one, with only 137,000 of them, should have plenty of life left. The seller says it runs and drives well, but doesn’t provide any details.
It looks nice inside, and the wood and leather of the Lexus version is definitely a cut above the Camry’s velour and plastic. I really like the red-toned wood against the dark gray leather. It has power everything, of course, and the seller says it all works. Not a bad place to spend your time, if you have to commute.
Look up “nondescript” in the dictionary, and you’ll find a picture of the Lexus ES – but there’s a good chance you’ll overlook it there as well. It’s not a bad-looking car, just bland. This one is in good condition, especially for being a Chicago car. I do see a tiny bit of rust starting in the corners of the trunk lid, but as long as it looks all right underneath, you should be good.
2012 Lincoln MKZ – $4,500
Engine/drivetrain: 3.5 liter dual overhead cam V6, six-speed automatic, FWD
Location: Hollywood, FL
Odometer reading: 136,000 miles
Operational status: Runs and drives great
If the Lexus ES is a fancy Toyota Camry, then the Lincoln MKZ is a fancy Ford Fusion. It’s based on the same Ford CD3 platform, and powered by the same Duratec V6. It’s part of a long line of sort of phoned-in mid-sized Lincolns, reaching all the way back to the Versailles in the late ’70s. But it works, if you think of it as just a really nice Ford.
The MKZ comes with the Fusion’s “big” engine, a 3.5 liter V6 that puts out a healthy 265 horsepower. It’s available only with a six-speed automatic, which is kind of a shame, because I’ve heard that the Fusion with a manual is a pretty nice car to drive. This ad is also light on details; all it says is it’s in “excellent condition.” Come on, folks; you’re not charged by the word. Give us some information.
It’s a little worse for wear inside; the steering wheel looks a little worn, and seat covers always make me nervous. The seats might be fine under there, but then, why the covers? On the plus side, the seller does say that everything works, including the all-important-for-Florida air conditioning.
Lincoln did a good job jazzing this car up from the Fusion; it has dramatic front and rear fascias that no one is going to mistake for some rental-counter Ford. And you don’t see nine-spoke wheels very often. I could do without the dark tint, but I do like the color. And it looks like it has been well-maintained.
I’ve always appreciated these fancy versions of everyday cars, especially in the used market. Maybe it comes from fond memories (yes, really) of a Cadillac Cimarron my family had when I was in high school. Yeah, they’re not really luxury cars, but they’re nice, and not any more mechanically complicated than their mundane siblings. And cars this old are largely free from the bullshit that afflicts so many luxury rides these days. These both feel like good deals to me. Which one do you prefer?
I hate the dashboard design of the Lexus and I’m still picking it, enthusiastically.
The Lexus is very similar to the Camry, but much nicer in every way*. I have a Camry in the collection, and the Lexus would feel like the Camry after being hit by a magic wand.
*Except in its bland body style. It appears to be designed to be practically invisible to radar, laser speed detection devices and most of all, the human eye. A paint job and contrasting pinstripes could transform its appearance.
I’d probably choose the Lincoln if it had a new water pump and we could see those seats. Assuming the Lexus looks okay underneath, I’ve joined what’s apparently a real pile-on.
What? No Ligier or Ladas?
Oh well, that Lincoln looks like a car from Borduria with that mustache.
Lexus it is then.
I sold those Lexus ES350s new. If I needed something cheap to cover long distance, it would be my choice 10 times out of 10.
Lexus and *ooof* is this a landslide!
I almost went for the Lincoln except for those seat covers and the horrors that may be lurking.
Those are to mitigate the damage caused when the owner drives it into the canal at
Del Boca Vista, and crap ensues…
Easy for the Lexus, I had a Camry of this year and my ex has a contemporary ES350 and they are nearly night and day apart. The Camry was like a clapped out Cavalier, a POS that just wouldn’t die (though it looked decent) and a manual did absolutely nothing for it. Horrible, horrible car where “it ran”—what should be the most base requirement for a car—was about the best that could be said. Ride was terrible, handling was poor, that 4 was one of Toyota’s worst engines, the interior was Sony knock-off early ’90s home stereo, and the seat was based on designs from the Spanish Inquisition and not the Monty Python version. The Lexus felt like it had a couple thousand more spot welds, was put together by people who really cared, and the interior quality and appearance, seat comfort (though that was a bar so low that a dachshund couldn’t trip over it), and ride quality were playing a different game. Previously, I had dismissed the ES as a Camry for insecure people who need a badge, but after comparing the two directly, I came to the conclusion that it’s not an overpriced fancy Camry, it’s an entry-level luxury car with Camry reliability and parts availability. I would never guess they were the same platform were I not a car nerd.
The condition of this Lincoln is disgusting. I can only imagine what is hiding under those seat covers, but I’d easily put my money on the Lexus to run with minimal maintenance even if the Lincoln’s interior condition was good. As for being a better drive, I doubt it would be enough to matter at best. The generation Fusion after this that I drove was very bland. I expected more from the reviews, but I actually preferred the Passat.
That is exactly why I bought a 2025 ES 350 Ultra Luxury.
But, yeah, there’s a stark difference between the two, even now that the ES is made in the same Kentucky facility as the Camry (which began sometime in CY2015).
Thanks! I have been curious about whether they were built in the same factory, but keep forgetting to look it up.
This one should just be called “You already picked the Lexus”
I’d rather buy the Suxel, but my 6’6″ frame won’t fit in a single model that MFR makes., so I had to vote Drof/Nlocnil. Also, when I sit in traffic, I do the mental exercise of looking at words and trying to pronounce them spelled backwards and now all Lexus vehicles are Suxels.
I didn’t even read the article and still picked the Lexus……am I right?It will still be running 20 years past the day the Ford product is picked clean at the U Pull it yard.
Can confirm, the manual definitely made the Fusion a pretty fun (for what it is) car to drive. Though a V6 was never paired with the manual, the 2.3/2.5 in the first gen Fusion and the 1.6 turbo in the 2nd gen were both powerful enough to have fun with the manual.
Lexus FTW for me. I rented one of those once… it was a very nice comfortable and quite cruiser.
And I also know the transverse Duratec V6 engines have an issue with the coolant pump failing in such a way that it causes coolant to leak into the engine oil. And if you don’t catch it fast, it kills the engine.
And thus, the Lexus is a way better car for the money.
Correct. The pump is internal to the engine. Ford claims this was the only way to get the Duratec to fit transversely (though I doubt it), but this is an inherent bad engineering decision that affects all transversely mounted Duratecs in 3.5, 3.5TT and 3.7 displacements, which include various cars:
CD3 platform:
CD4 platform:
D3/D4 platform:
By contrast, no one seems to have issues with the modern twin-turbo Nano engines in transverse applications, including the 2.7-liter version (Edge Sport/ST, Fusion Sport, MKX/Nautilus) or the 3.0-liter version (MKZ, Continental), and they are pretty potent and fuel-efficient. Wouldn’t hesitate to get one of those, if they’d been well-maintained.
Hmm, one of Lexus’ most indestructible engines or one of Fords bigger Achilles water pumps…tough call…
Unlike so many online car sellers, they did a good job of cleaning up the Lincoln. The steering wheel and seat covers are the giveaways, though. Not a fan of the gratuitous red in the Lexus interior, but it’s in better shape and will be more reliable; if I’m driving my way to Dullsville, I’ll take it.
Toyota fanboy here. You had me a Lex.
Also, those baggy seat covers on the Fincoln make that one a hard pass. Shredded seats in a luxury car? Nope.
Lazy lame lifeless Lexus’ likely longevity lashes Lincoln lofty lusterless luxuriousness
As a matter of policy, I avoid Florida cars. I’ll take the Lexus so I can join my friends at Denny’s because they have a great seniors’ discount.
In a fairly even match-up, I tend to vote for the model with more character or appeal. That would be the Lincoln here, but the condition of the Lexus (hidden rust notwithstanding) puts it ahead.
Time for Toyota Town to save the day again. Gimme the fancy camry.
Of those two, I’d pick the Lexus. It seems to be in better shape, although being a Chicago car I’d like to take a peek underneath. That MKZ has been ridden hard and not well taken care of. Too bad.
My current DD is a ’12 MKZ except black with AWD and in much, much better shape. It’s been a fine car – peppy enough and a great highway cruiser.
Lincoln. How much Lexus is left after 17 Chicago winters?
That Lexus has lived its life in Franklin Park, IL. Any car that has spent 137,000 miles navigating the ramshackle “roads” called North Ave, Mannheim Rd and Franklin Ave is going to sound like a box of nails in a dryer.
Isn’t the 3.5L V6 in the Lincoln the one that has the timing chain driven water pump? The one that requires serious disassembly to fix, or it frags the engine when it fails? Sure, they’re reliable for awhile, but this is a 136k mile Ford product. At the <$5k mark, I put a high value on not having catastrophic failure.
I don’t like rust, but the Lexus will probably run forever. I’d take a real good look underneath obviously, but the fact that the pictures highlight the few blemishes and the rest of the car seems in reasonable shape seems to portend decent ownership, all caps ad aside.
This generation of MKZ is pretty handsome, and that’s a really good color combination … but if the back seat and armrest are that sketchy, I can only imagine how awful everything else is.
It’s not the exciting choice, but it’s the right one. We’ll take the Lexus, and forever be mistaken for a suburban Realtor.
My brother has a 2008 ES350 with 250,000 miles on it. It isn’t exciting, but it is a dang good car even with the high miles. The interior has worn amazingly well, even the dash (which I suspect was replaced under the forced recall, unlike my GX). He threw in a cheap aftermarket head unit with AA/Carplay and had an excellent commuter. The Lincoln is absolutely the worse buy here.
The Lincoln is obviously not in excellent condition. I’ve actually had a MKZ of exactly that vintage, a ‘12, but mine was a hybrid not the V6. It also only had 56k miles on it when I got it, and was genuinely in excellent condition. Was a good car while I owned it. Genuinely nice for what is at its core a gussied up Fusion. Rather forgettable driving experience though. I guess if I wanted excitement behind the wheel I wouldn’t have considered it fair being fair. I did like the car. I’d rather have the luxury and nice ride quality vs something much more sporty. I gotta wonder if this would have been a closer vote if the car had been a lower mileage MKZ hybrid without a well worn potentially trashed interior. That particular Ford V6 seems to be well known for water pump issues even if it happened to provide a car with satisfying underhood grunt