As electric cars and trucks continue to proliferate in America, a number of owners face a difficult problem. If you tow a camper with your EV, you can expect to lose a massive chunk of your range. Then you have to figure out how to charge your tow vehicle while dealing with the camper just to do it all over again. This makes the prospect of going on a camping road trip with an EV an endeavor perhaps not worth taking. For Tesla alums Ben Parker and Toby Kraus, the solution to this is clear: The RV world needs a camper that can essentially haul itself, allowing the tow vehicle to retain most, if not all of its original range. This is the Lightship L1, perhaps the closest thing you’ll find to the Tesla of RVs.
The problem with EVs and towing is a subject that we’ve covered before. EVs, much like ICE vehicles, lose a ton of range when towing heavy trailers. Car magazine camper towing tests have found that popular EV trucks will chew through more than half of their highway range if the camper is large enough. When Car and Driver made a Ford F-150 Lightning, GMC Hummer EV, and a Rivian R1T all tow the same 29-foot, 6,100-pound travel trailer, they all lost at least 50 percent range. The Ford went 100 miles, the GMC went 140 miles, and the Rivian topped out at 110 miles.
With an ICE tow vehicle, this isn’t a huge deal. You may drop down into single-digit fuel economy, but at least you’ll often have a large enough tank to maintain a decent range. And when it comes time to fill up, you can drive under the canopy of a fuel station and top up.
For EVs, the problem is two-fold as they don’t have a massive fuel tank and you’ll frequently find charging stalls that are just single parking spaces. Unfortunately, that means that you’ll have to decouple from your camper before you charge, then hitch it back up afterward.
Lightship is among a handful of companies with a potential solution to this problem. What if the camper could drive itself, saving your EV’s range?
Lightship L1 Design And Specs
Lightship’s debut product is the L1 travel trailer. Starting with the exterior, the camper has a design that reminds me of a Hi-Lo camper. A Hi-Lo tries to give you the best of a hard-sided camper with the best of a pop-up tent camper. When traveling, a Hi-Lo is compacted on itself like a pop-up. However, unlike a pop-up, a Hi-Lo has hard walls. The Lightship L1 is a similar concept, but with a design that doesn’t look 30 years old like a Hi-Lo. I especially love the large panoramic windows. Too many campers can make you feel claustrophobic with how tiny and how few their windows are. In fact, most of the upper cap is made of automotive-grade glass, and Lightship says that the production version will have rock and mud guards.
Parker and Kraus tell us that when the Lightship L1 is lowered into its travel mode, it is three times more aerodynamic than a traditional travel trailer. The pair didn’t tell us what the coefficient of drag was on the unit, but they did say that the shape was optimized through thousands of hours of towing testing to be as compatible with as many truck and SUV tow vehicles as possible. The idea here is that the camper will not tower above the tow vehicle like a traditional camper will, thus reducing drag.
This aero setup helps with the trailer’s other headlining feature, its drive system. Located under the sleek body is a self-propulsion system. An electric powertrain is found underneath the camper which houses an electric motor and a 80 kWh battery. Lightship is holding details about this powertrain close to the chest at this time, but the team tells us that this powertrain is powerful enough to propel itself. The tow vehicle will still be loading its tow hitch, but the Lightship L1 will be pulling its own weight enough that the tow vehicle, regardless if it’s ICE or electric, loses practically no range. Parker and Kraus found that a 300-mile range was the sweet spot as that’s about when you’ll probably want to take a break, anyway.
Thus, the pair say, the Lightship L1 hauls itself so well that if you’re towing it with a 300-mile EV, it should remain a 300-mile EV. And if you’re towing it with a 20 mpg truck, it should remain a 20 mpg truck.
If that sounds awfully familiar, it’s because this concept is currently being worked on by Airstream and Dethleffs. Both companies have taken camper designs, outfitted them with self-propelled EV gear with 80-kWh, and are marketing their campers as having similar benefits. However, Parker and Kraus tell us that their camper is different in a number of ways. Firstly, the Lightship L1 was built from the ground up to be an EV, while the competition is taking their characteristic designs and outfitting them with EV gear. Meanwhile, the Lightship L1 is also able to compact itself, which allows for the aero benefits mentioned before. The Lightship team also tells us that the L1 camper is also using a drive system that’s lightweight, though exact details will be revealed later.
Parker and Kraus tell us that this is the first camper built from the ground up to be all-electric with a self-propulsion system and purpose-built to help the tow vehicle retain most if not all of its range. This claim–so far as I can tell–is true.
Unfortunately, while the Lightship L1 may be purpose-built to be an EV camper, it thus far cannot solve the issue of charging. As I said before, charging with a trailer is difficult given the fact that so many chargers are pull-in stalls. With a Lightship, you will still have to figure out how to charge the trailer and your tow vehicle, or charge the trailer and fill up the tow vehicle. Parker and Kraus tell us that the company is working on solutions for charging on a road trip like a super-sized alternator for ICE tow vehicles or by using the trailer’s motor as a generator. There is some good news, and it’s that the L1 camper will be able to charge from shore power at a campground campsite. It’s also fast-charging capable.
The camper can also regain some of its charge through its regen system. This regen system works by detecting when the tow vehicle slows down, then the camper will slow itself as well. We’re told that one way the camper can tell when the tow vehicle initiates braking is by monitoring the brake lights, but it also has its own sensors.
Another benefit here is that the tow vehicle should be able to stop quickly since the camper can stop itself. Parker and Kraus stress that the Lightship L1 is designed to keep tension between the tow vehicle and camper at all times and that the drive system is designed to maintain control. The trailer isn’t supposed to accelerate so fast that it pushes the tow vehicle, nor will it brake so hard that it yanks your truck to a hard stop. If you’ve used a trailer brake controller set too high you know what I’m talking about. The idea here is to maintain the same level of control that you’re used to, only that the trailer is helping pull itself along.
Inside
Moving inside, I adore the massive greenhouse of this camper. You can wake up to some incredible views and if you want to bring the outside in, you can flip the giant windows open, just like with those Taxa Outdoors off-road campers.
Lightship doesn’t provide a ton of details about the interior as those will be provided later. However, the company says that all appliances and comfort equipment will be electric. Lightship says that your house battery is the traction battery. So, when you arrive at your campsite, whatever charge is remaining is the charge you’re using for camping. The camper will come with a monitoring system that will allow you to determine if you have enough battery for camping.
When you’re boondocking, the battery is topped up with 3 kW of solar charging. Assuming that you start with a full battery, Lightship says that you’ll get about a week of off-grid time with the camper.
The Lightship L1 measures 27 feet long, 6 feet, 9 inches tall when in road mode, and 10 feet tall when in camp mode. Fully loaded, it weighs in at 7,500 pounds and it sleeps 4 to 6 people depending on the configuration.
The Minds Behind Lightship
The Autopian’s EIC David Tracy and I got to interview Ben Parker and Toby Kraus. Parker built hybrid-electric racecars in his university years before spending five years as a battery engineer for Tesla, developing a new manufacturing process and getting the Tesla Model 3’s battery out of production hell. Kraus also spent five years at Tesla, where he led Tesla’s finance team and was a product manager for the first production Tesla Model S.
Kraus left Tesla in 2015 for Proterra, an electric vehicle equipment manufacturer perhaps best known for powering Thomas Built Buses Saf-T-Liner C2 Jouley school buses. Working with Proterra, Kraus led the business unit that applied platforms to commercial vehicles, where Proterra was the electrification provider for companies like Mercedes-Benz’s commercial vehicle division.
Parker told us that Lightship’s origins were in an entirely different industry. During Parker’s tenure at Tesla in California, he often found food trucks parked outside of the factory. Those food trucks were kept online with loud, smoky generators. Of course, those loud generators aren’t heard just at Tesla, but Parker told us that food trucks are all over the Bay area with their loud generators roaring. At first, this sparked a pet project to take EV technology and implement it into a quiet food truck.
Parker left Tesla in 2020 and decided to rent a Winnebago for a cross-country trip. In our interview, he told me how much he loves going camping, but during that trip, he noticed that campsites often have the same problem as the Bay area. People boondocking in their campers will often run a loud generator around the clock. It’s something that I’ve experienced myself during Gambler 500 rallies since 2018. Those generators are loud enough to keep you up all night and listening to one in the morning sort of spoils watching the scenery. Sure, you could buy a quiet generator, but those are often far more expensive than loud ones.
Parker felt inspired on that trip to change his project from an EV food truck to an RV. While on that trip, he started talking to RV owners, asking them what they’d like to see in a future camper. It should be no surprise that even RV owners hate listening to generators. And people who tow with their ICE would enjoy better fuel economy. Armed with his new inspiration, Parker went back to the Bay area and got to work.
When we asked Kraus about his inspiration, his story didn’t involve a cross-country trip, but the observation that the RV market is a colossus. However, despite hundreds of thousands of units going home with American buyers, the industry is dominated by the likes of Thor and Forest River. Those campers, as I’ve shown you in various articles, are largely the same. You get a box on a steel frame with varying levels of quality, but not much in the way of innovation.
Kraus joined forces with Parker founding Lightship in 2020 with a mission to bring fresh ideas to the RV world. The name and stylization of the company logo is inspired by the Nantucket Lightship. Together, the guys picked up engineers from Tesla, Lucid, Proterra, Zoox, and Rivian with the goal of enabling the electrification of trucks and SUVs by making a better RV.
Price And Release Date
Lightship says that the L1 camper will cost $125,000 at launch and it’s expected to be eligible for a tax credit that will drop the price to $118,400. While additional information on the living facilities remains scarce, this seems to be an aggressive price for an EV camper. For comparison, Airstreams that come in this length cost the same or tens of thousands more and don’t come with any nifty EV tricks. Lightship also notes that there will be a long-range version for $151,500, or $139,600 after tax credits, but specifics about that one will come later.
(Update, October 19, 2023: Lightship has produced more specifics about both models. The Lightship L1 Essential is the $125,000 model. It features a 40 kWh battery and no drive motor. You’ll need to step up for the $151,500 L1 Long Range for the 80 kWh pack and the drive motor.)
Lightship is expecting prospective customers to be people who want creature comforts in their camper. These people may have camped before but they definitely want to go exploring. A buyer of a Lightship might be someone who goes to Burning Man, a professional, or a tech nerd. The company is also targeting someone who might not be a typical EV buyer; someone who just wants something that’s easy to use and might not even care about the tech behind it.
As more people buy EV SUVs and trucks, this camper will help owners take longer road trips as they won’t have to stop every 100 miles. And for those still holding on to their ICE tow vehicles, they can enjoy better towing fuel economy. Basically, owners of ICE and EVs both win! Production is set for late 2024.
Hopefully, Lightship can keep that price because I love the potential that the Lightship L1 has. If you want one, the company is accepting $500 reservations starting today.
(All Photos: Lightship)
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Powered trailer axles can produce some significant handling and control problems. That’s why the British dropped the powered trailer for the Landrover 101 forward control. This was simple setup that used the PTO to drive the trailer.
It’s possible that this electric system can have enough intelligence to disconnect during braking or maneuvering
With modern electronics and sensors, I figure they can program the trailer so that there continues to be some ‘pull’ on the hitch during acceleration and some ‘push’ on the hitch during braking.
cool, really exciting. This would make remote working a lot of fun. now, if we could get that on top of a sprinter platform with a 200kWh battery.
Ok, lets talk reality. $125k? Basically turns this into something unrechable by anyone that isnt “wealthy”.
All those windows? You would sweat your ass off. Seriously, that much glass on a camper makes for a sauna. On top of that, all those windows contribute to missing storage. You NEED that storage if you want to be able to take your family of 4 out for even a long weekend.
And then the killer would be the weight. Not the overall weight of 7500 lbs. Its the tongue weight. Going with the 10-15% rate rule, you are looking at a tongue weight from 750-1125 lbs. Even with a half ton pickup, those are usually max rated to 1100 at the tongue. For any unibody SUV/car, regardless if its an EV or ICE, you ain’t putting 750+ at the hitch in those vehicles.
This last issue is a HUGE problem in the trailer towing world. Way too many people look at “My vehicle can tow 7500 lb and therefore I can buy a 7500 lb trailer.”. But really the only numbers that matter is the pulling vehicles payload and tounge rating. Even if you can handle the tongue load, you need to add that, your vehicle cargo, and the passengers all up. That is your payload. You almost always run out of payload capacity in the tow vehicle long before you get near your tow rating. If you want white knuckle driving, exceed your tongue and/or payload rating.
While this is all a nice concept, the math, science, and cost is basically saying its impractical.
100% agree. The way to make an EV friendly trailer is low weight and great aerodynamics. This 7500lbs monster will swamp the tongue weight on the Rivian R1T, the Ford Lightening (500 lbs) and be totally out of reach for the Tesla Model X.
Even with a weight distribution hitch, I would want a traditional 1500 truck to tow this, and preferably a 2500 for the event that the battery dies.
For “150k” (if it ever makes it to market, and I doubt it) you could buy another truck, a normal trailer and several years of fuel to tow it around. This whole EV trailer market is so unbelievably stupid, no one who actually owns these trucks want to live in some trailer park or go camping in a state park. The demographics don’t line up. It’s just a waste of batteries. Also that interior is awfully spartan.
Pusher trailers have been around for decades and the general consensus among their operators is that they behave pretty well. When I first found out about these I did try to find out what laws might apply but didn’t have much luck. In what way(s) are they illegal?
Here’s a gas-powered example but there are battery-powered versions out there, too:
http://www.evalbum.com/304
The ground clearance is much to low for normal, unpaved U.S. Forest Service Roads (numbered FSR’s), much less the rougher stuff into the most interesting places.
There are some good ideas here, and it looks like they have done a credible job solving for the aerodynamics part of the problem, but I’m not convinced a pusher motor and large battery is the right way to go. For my $120k, I would prefer something with a similar slick profile made of extremely light materials and a “silent” generator which are about as loud as a refrigerator.
Legality didn’t come up in our interviews, but keep in mind that Lightship isn’t the only company doing this. Dethleffs has a self-propelled camper in Europe and Airstream has one here in America. Both of those companies have been around long enough to know better.
I’ll have to check with our legal correspondent on these trailers. It wouldn’t make sense for Thor Industries to dump tons of money into a self-propelled Airstream just for it to be illegal to be sold; unless Thor’s legal department is missing something you’re not.
I cannot express how little interest I have in trailers being equipped with batteries and motors. Cost goes up, you add a second battery to charge on trips, weight goes up a LOT… that means you need axles rated for more weight, you’re pulling more weight, tires need a higher load rating, and we continue to accelerate wear on already under-maintained infrastructure.
And, this does nothing for the millions of old-yet-maintained trailers that are able to stay in use and remain a better use of resources vs constructing something new. My racecar hauler is aluminum. It’ll never rust. The wood floor will have to get re-done in a few years when it celebrates its 20th birthday, probably.
The proper solution to EV towing is one that accounts for all the trailers on the road today. This camper is really cool, but it’s ultimately a toy of a concept that doesn’t solve for much.
Very good points, especially with regards to already crumbled infrastructure. However, there are a few potentially big mitigating factors.
The big thing is, while it might weigh 7,500 pounds, you aren’t towing it, so much as guiding it around with the ‘tow’ vehicle. It powers itself, brakes itself, I’m assuming it (and the modern tow vehicle) have pretty sophisticated stability/anti-sway programming. Other than payload, which, is omitting a big point, what’s to prevent this from being towed by something much lighter duty? Even if you do account for payload, a Tesla Model Y has nearly the same payload as a Grand Wagoneer. The trailer itself may be putting more of a strain on the highway, but, if it prevents someone from having to say “We haul the camper twice a year, I need a 200kW Hummer to tow it!”, that’s overall a huge net win for the pavement, traffic, etc. Maybe I’m overlooking something, and maybe nothing currently on the market exactly fits the bill, but, it seems like you could eliminate a lot of the need for a large, wasteful tow vehicle with something like this. Of course, you’re a lot of the way to a motorhome at that point, but, we digress.
Additionally, with a battery pack that large, it would be nice to see it able to be plugged into your house as a battery backup. It should function a lot better in that function than the family pickup because, typically, these things just sit unused 95% of the time, and that way you’re getting some kind of use out of your battery investment.
There’s probably much better solutions out there, and it would be really, really cool for someone to start offering retrofit kits for existing trailers – equipment/cargo trailers tend to have extremely long lifespans, and, I’d be interested in something just for keeping wear and tear off of the tow vehicle – even with a small battery, it’d be a cool way to ‘hybridize’ your towing experience. As complicated as a trailer with an 80kW battery and its own motors is, I don’t think it’s that bad of a solution to the EV towing range problem.
While I like the hi-lo approach, having the trailer’s windows 2′ off the ground seems like great business for a window repair shop. At least they are hinged, so they should be easy, if not cheap, to replace.
$125k for a camping trailer that tows itself, huh? Hear me out: what if we spent another couple grand to add a steering axle to the front, a seat, pedals, and steering wheel – we could dispense of the tow vehicle completely! What savings!
And drive the RV around everywhere you need to go once you’ve reached your destination? Sure, you could Uber/Lyft/call a cab but what if you’re an hour out of town and need groceries or want to go visit a site that’s an hour away?
It would lose its aerodynamic advantage since they would be adding a cabin that doesn’t compress. It would also cost significantly more and have a longer development time. Additionally, this is a product marketed at both EV and ICE vehicle owners so there’s a broader market than just people interested in an electric RV.
125k buys a lot of travel that’s actually comfortable
Sure hope the windows either have shades or the glass can be darkened because most camp sites have campers right next to each other so if there’s no concealment then everyone’s gonna’ see you and your partner screwin’. Sorry that was the first thing that came to mind
Nobody wants to see your average campsite patron naked.
The better option would be a trailer with batteries that can plug into the tow vehicle’s battery to give it more range. Just like those battery things for recharging a cellphone. A standard coupling would need to be agreed upon.
A standard coupling that can handle 25+kW.
Why not just use the relay concept you mentioned and just switch over to the external battery. Why would it have to charge the other battery? It’s depleted, just leave it be. Then you can run off the external battery until it is used up.
The external battery would have to be able to accommodate the necessary discharge rate. Similar concept to a battery swap except the backup is in tow and there is no swap.
A beautiful concept that is about to run headlong into a buzzsaw of:
legality, engineering complexity, cost escalation, manufacturing hell, and if successful, market competition.
There is no way this thing is going to make to market and sell anywhere near 150k. If we’re really being honest, this thing will never make.it.to.marlet. Like most of the other quick flip RV start ups featured here.
Well there’s your problem. You move slow and fix things. /s
Interestingly, the easiest way to charge this entire rig would just be to go to a campground. Typically, renting a campsite for an entire day is somewhere between $30 (state parks) and $90 (KOAs, etc.) Even $90 is still pretty cheap in the context of filling up a tow vehicle, so it would make sense to just rent a campsite, charge for a few hours, and be on your way. Could even take a shower or do laundry while you’re there. I could see campgrounds beginning to allocate certain pull-through sites specifically for this purpose.
I was thinking the same thing. The renders show this thing boon docking, but the length and low ground clearance make it pretty impractical for anything tougher than a grated gravel road.
If this thing comes to fruition, they probably aren’t going to be fit for anything tougher than established campgrounds and perhaps one trip to Burning man.
Unfortunately, you need far more than a few hours to charge up.
Objective: Drive 300 miles with a Ford Lightning (Extended battery) while towing the Lightship L1.
Assumptions:
-Tow vehicle and trailer fully deplete their batteries in those 300 miles.
-Your typical Nema 14-50 outlet is available at the campsite.
-Continuous consumption to power lights, HVAC, etc. while parked is 0.6kW
-Charging efficiency: 90%
Math:
240v x 50a x 80% (allowable continuous draw) x 90% (charging efficiency) = 8.6kW
8.6kW – 0.6kW (continuous auxiliary consumption) = 8 kW
(131kWh (Lightning battery size) + 80kWh (L1 battery size)) / 8kW ≈ 26 hrs
So, in summary, if you’re trying to solely use campsite charging options, you’d drive 300 miles over the course of say 5-7 hours, and then you’d have to plug in for approximately 26 hours straight. Most people wouldn’t tolerate those limitations. This is why pull through DC fast chargers are essentially mandatory for EV RVs. And/Or ICE range extenders.
Very good point. Honestly I thought about doing that math and then got distracted. The other concern is that the electrical infrastructure of a lot of campgrounds is pretty rickety. Sure, they have 50amp in theory, but I think there is a general assumption that the vast majority of sites will use much less. I’ll occasionally rent a power site just because it’s in a better location, even though my camper is 100% off-grid. I think many do the same, which drags the average down a lot. But if a lot of people are pulling the full 50amp for extended periods? There may be problems.
A buddy of mine may have set a power panel on fire trying to charge his Tesla as Carolina Motorsports Park one time…
Is it just me that thinks 80kWh with 3kW solar should last longer than a week? Avg home is 30kWh a day but small homes are 8-12 kWh and I feel like 10-16 days would be reasonable to expect from an RV? maybe a week is conservative for advertising?
They probably factor in that you will have used some of that juice to get there and will need some to get back. I bet they ration a large portion of the 80kWh for the drivetrain.
Yeah, the 80 kWh battery is both for the drivetrain and the interior equipment. Basically, if you arrive at your campsite with that battery depleted then you have nothing. Ideally, your campsite will either have shore power or you’ll charge up one last time before arriving.
Lightship did not say how it arrived at the 1 week figure. However, it’s probably safe to assume that the estimate is conservative or assumes that you won’t be trying to save energy. Winnebago thinks 15 kWh with solar charging is enough for a week for its electric camper van, but only if you rarely run the air-conditioner and try to be energy efficient.
I think this idea is the way of the future for campers and trailers. It has the added advantage of not needing to install an electric brake controller in your tow vehicle, which is pretty great, since it’s already built into the camper’s propulsion controls. This is a nice design and I’ve always liked the Hi-Lo camper idea.
I’m curious about something, though: if the camper is propelling itself, does that lower the net weight from a towing perspective? If the tow vehicle’s range stays the same, that would seem to imply that the perceived tow weight is zero. Even if it isn’t actually “zero”, could a car that has a towing capacity of only 2000 pounds, tow this 7500 pound camper since the camper is pushing and stopping itself? I hope some engineers or physicists can weigh in (ha ha) on this one.
You will still need a 7-pin trailer hookup and brake controller for this thing to work. I’m assuming it has some smart accelerometers in it to manage keeping the application of “gas”/brake synced to the TV.
You will still need a TV that is rated for the full weight of this thing for two reasons:
-It has to be able to handle the tongue weight of the trailer, which is often the limiting factor
-It has to be able to tow this trailer, even in the event that the battery dies
It should essentially make the trailer significantly less heavy as towed weight as long as the trailer can propel itself. Tongue weight may still be an issue, but that could be solved with balance, probably, though different terrain would make me very nervous if it was close.
It’s a dangerous game. If you are set up to tow 2000 pounds and you run out of battery, you are suddenly dragging a 7500 pound trailer. Perhaps heavier effective weight if the wheels are equipped for regen. Even in a vehicle equipped for it, I’d really hate to run out of juice mid-drive. You’d have very different driving dynamics when you might not expect it.
It’s a really cool idea, but I’m not sure it is the best way to solve the problem. Aerodynamics and weight would be the places I would focus, rather than trailer propulsion. And then, I would look at having the trailer help, not necessarily be capable of fully propelling itself. Something more like the pedal-assist bikes, where it makes things easier, but isn’t doing all the work itself.
But I am not an engineer or physicist, so I definitely don’t have the experience to be sure that this isn’t the ideal solution. It might be.
Balance doesn’t get you much on tongue weight. You always want your weight distribution biased toward the front. If you have a majority of the weight behind the axle you are going to have a very bad time.
That makes sense. I wasn’t sure on a trailer that drives itself. I thought they might be able to balance the weight differently to better distribute over the additional drive wheels.
In any case, I definitely can’t see using a vehicle that couldn’t easily tow the unpowered trailer and relying on the additional power.
Charging on the road could be a real pain. You’d have to back the trailer into a charging space, hook it to a charger, unhook it from the truck, park the truck in a charging space, then hook up the truck to a charger.
And then do it all in reverse when the batteries are charged.
Also, $125,000? I think the price will go up considerably once the high-end interior finishes are installed.
“Parker and Kraus stress that the Lightship L1 is designed to keep tension between the tow vehicle and camper at all times, so it won’t out-accelerate or out-brake you.”
That doesn’t make.sense. It needs to out-brake you to keep tension on the tow vehicle at all times.
That is our fault, I apologize. I’ve edited for clarity.
What the guys were trying to say is that the drive system isn’t supposed to overcome the tow vehicle. Basically, it won’t accelerate so fast that it pushes the tow vehicle or brake so hard that it yanks the tow vehicle to a stop. The idea is to keep the consist loaded even if the trailer is assisting in towing itself.
So tell me why the camper and tow vehicle can’t share power between them? Seems like it shouldn’t be a huge engineering problem to make that happen. That solves the charging issue – charge one, charge both.
That would also open up the possibility of a smaller trailer with a big battery that actually extends the range of the vehicle.
I do have an answer for that! Lightship told me that the connections to the tow vehicle are no different than any other trailer. That was intentional so that it could be towed by either an EV truck or an ICE truck without any modifications.
There’s also the hurdle that most EVs aren’t designed to be charged while on the move, thus requiring you to stop to charge, which defeats the purpose of a trailer that can extend range. That’s the big problem behind this teardrop camper:
https://www.theautopian.com/this-teardrop-camper-recharges-your-ev-and-powers-your-home-but-theres-a-weird-compromise/
Aren’t there cars that use an ICE to generate electricity to extend range when the battery runs out? how is that different then the electricity coming from another battery instead of an ICE generator?
I feel like the whole “can’t use an external power source for an EV in motion” has already been solved and forgotten.
It’s largely programming, I think. They don’t want people to accidentally drive off while plugged in. That part seems pretty easy to solve.
You are correct, of course! The explanation that I was given is that most of the current crop of all-electric vehicles are simply not programmed to be charged while on the move. Their designers assume that the only time you’ll be charging is while at a station, not while driving. Thus, to allow the trailer to charge the tow vehicle would either mean designing around that limitation (figuring out what stops each EV from charging on the move) or working with the OEMs to allow a range-extender trailer.
There’s also the part about helping ICE vehicles that Lightship, Airstream, and Dethleffs are advertising. If the trailer is just a big battery, then it does nothing for the droves of people still towing with ICE trucks and SUVs, making it even more of a niche product.
this is really the problem with EV’s in general. 90 percent of the time cars drag around vast empty spaces. if we can slide a battery into a power tool safely enough, it should be possible to have suitcase sized add a batteries that can be pre-charged at fueling stations across the country. that way day to day the EV’s only carry around a basic 100-150 mile battery, maybe a few of these suitcase batteries as well and when in need pay the same as a tank of gas to swap them out inside of 5-10 minutes.
The suitcase battery was proposed with the Nobe 100, and I still think it’s a good idea. A “booster tank” that just trickle charges the main battery would be lightweight, lower voltage, and not need as much cooling, which circumvents the three biggest engineering obstacles to car-scale battery swapping. It’s a good compromise.
OK, so let’s drop back 10 and try again…
Why can’t the trailer be a portable charging station when the vehicle isn’t moving? You take a pit stop in the middle of nowhere, plug in the cable and charge up while you stretch your legs, take in the view, or play video games.
There are already companies going that route. Which is great. But this is for the person who wants to go 300 miles nonstop, then set up camp. I think we’re going to see a lot of different strategies to make towing campers with an EV work for people. Very aerodynamic pop-up camper is my bet for the most cost-efficient way to improve towing range, but I’ve been wrong many times before. And that would almost assuredly not have all the conveniences people want.
Personally, I’d love to take a trailer out with an EV and just take short hops and stay in a lot of different campgrounds about 150 miles apart, but that takes more time and money than I am willing to commit. If someone does, though, it could show a different sort of travel option for those who want to just adapt. You’d get to spend a lot of time relaxing and a lot less time driving if it works for you.
BMW i3 for the win! charges itself while driving with the Rex motor.
Probably because EVS aren’t (currently) designed to charge from an external source while driving. Not an existing use case. It’s technically possible, sure, but you’d need hardware (and more importantly, significant software) changes to make it possible, and that means it would have to be integrated from the beginning in a new model.
I think you’re looking at two problems there: some (most?) EVs won’t move while charging as a safety mechanism and charging ports on EVs can be located in any number of locations. Neither is insurmountable, but the added complexity might be troublesome.
The first would need cooperation from EV makers. You could have the camper send a signal to the vehicle to bypass that safety mechanism. The vehicle manufacturer would also need to ensure that the vehicle is set up to simultaneously charge and discharge without thermal management issues, which really shouldn’t be a problem. The trailer also needs to be engineered to power the wheels and the charging cable at once. Probably a trivial issue, though.
The second could be partially solved by something like a retractable cable on a reel, but you’re adding a cable that could get pinched, cut, pulled, etc. and that is likely to rub on the tow vehicle. Turn sharply and you could damage the cable, the spool, and/or the tow vehicle. Never mind what happens if you add too much slack. Might be a solvable problem, but it probably isn’t worth the hassle.
The cables that currently run to trailer are already the bane of trailers. They are constantly needed to be repaired or replaced. I can only imagine the problems with a cable large enough to run a car at highway speed, for instance dragging on the ground until the insulation is worn, then shorting out.
I genuinely do not understand this world we’re in now, where people buy $90k EVs, six-figure trailers, $85,000 trucks, and still have things like a boat, a house, kids in college, vacations, and on and on.
Is all of America drowning in barely-manageable debt, or is there some segment of society with big Scrooge McDuck pools of cash that I just don’t know?
Very cool trailer, tho
America is remarkably affluent and remarkably populous.
The 80th percentile household income is about $150,000/yr. With 123 million households, that means almost 25 million households make that much or more. The same can be said for the 90th (12 million housholds, $212,000), 95th (6 million, $286,000), and even 99th (1.2 million, $570,000).
I’m sure some people are up to their eyes in debt making payments on a lifestyle they can’t afford. But there really are a lot of rich people in this country.
…And they are still complaining about the cost of gas and groceries being too high while they drive gas guzzlers and waste food. Of course none of that is their fault. It’s all because of Joe Biden!
I’ve long had the exact same question. If you ever learn the answer, please share!
There’s a lot of barely manageable debt out there. You see the occasional “news” story about a $250,000 salary living paycheck to paycheck, and it is almost always because they have to have stuff they’ll never pay off.
On this site, I see ads sometimes for camp trailers with really low monthly payments, and it always turns out you pay like 150+% of the price over something like 10 years. If you are willing to pay forever, you can make things seem affordable on monthly payments.
I camp 30-40 nights a year, and last year I decided to buy an Airstream. Rather than pay in cash, I decided to get a 15 year “mortgage” on it for 4%. It is the most white trash thing I’ve ever done, and I have some regrets… but I absolutely love taking it out to the coast during winter and to the lakes all summer and having a sweet waterfront cabin.
When we’re not book docking, camp sites are $20-30 a night. The trailer payment and insurance are about $500 a month. The truck I tow it with has been paid off since 2019. In the past few years we were spending $4000-6000 a year on hotels / airbnb.
All that to say: Trailers aren’t a smart financial decision, but if you really like traveling it can pencil out pretty quickly. Your mileage and interests may vary.
If you make it work for you, no judgment. My dad got a camp trailer to avoid paying for hotels while working a distant job, and comparing the cost of a camper to the cost of hotels makes it make sense pretty quickly. As long as you know what you are getting into, it’s good. I just know there are people who look at the monthly payment on one of those 15 year loans and don’t do the math (one 15k camp trailer was advertising payments that ended with a person paying nearly double). And certainly don’t realize how much depreciation there will be.
If you can afford the payment and know what you’ve signed up for, you probably aren’t one of the barely manageable debt crowd.
I probably only camp about half as many nights per year as you do, but I do a couple of week-long trips and when you look at hotel costs in the areas I go the savings for the week can easily hit four figures for one trip. It’s far more than the cost of fuel to get there.
I don’t know whether the trailer has paid for itself, but I’m pretty sure it at least covered the insurance and fuel costs. Plus the view from my campsites is usually much better than a hotel parking lot. 😉
As someone with a household income ~$200k/year, I have no clue how they do it either. My best guess is debt plus a lack of retirement savings.
I’ve come across quite a few people who would fall into that category. They may make good money, but they have no desire to have anything but minimal retirement savings because, “might as well live life now while I’m young and able” usually followed by “I’m never having kids, so I don’t need to pass anything on”.
I saw this on full display last year when me and my wife drove from Oakland Calif to Portland. As soon as we got into the rural areas there was an insane amount of giant bro-dozer trucks pulling small house sized trailers. And many of said trailers had a garage built in the back for more toys like motorbikes and jet skis. Mostly driven by rednecks who probably took out who knows what loans for the things. It made me wonder: Why even fucking bother camping when you’re hauling a literal house with you? Sort of defeats the purpose?
> Is all of America drowning in barely-manageable debt,
A lot of it is.
> or is there some segment of society with big Scrooge McDuck pools of cash
Some of it is that. The top 1% has about 40% of all wealth, the next 9% shares about 35% for themselves, and the lower 90% has what’s left.
Of course, not all wealth can immediately translate into payments. Elmo couldn’t cash out $40B of Tesla stock to buy Twitter, even though he has the stock he needed some help from banks and Saudi Arabia.
It would seem a lot simpler to just put a big battery in the trailer and let the tow vehicle draw from it. It could even connect the trailer wheels to a generator to recharge it as it’s being pulled. That would seem much easier than trying to sync drive speed with the tow vehicle.
Shhhhhhhhh
stop making sense
all nice and dandy, but you could have the unicorn of campers right now. https://www.thedrive.com/news/buy-this-1975-dodge-woodsman-4×4-rv-and-drive-the-only-one-around
Someone sent that to me over the weekend! Sadly, the seller pulled it from eBay after getting no bids. It was built by Champion Home Builders to be a rugged motorhome, but I could find no other information on it.
Hopefully there’s good communication between the tow vehicle and the camper drive units. The trailer pushing the truck is not a good situation.
This would be my concern. Any bit of push on the hitch from the trailer and you’ve got a potential tail-wagging-the-dog situation. Very dangerous very quickly.
Yeah, that’s really the only complicated part of the whole deal. Everything else is established tech, the control software is the real deal.
All it really needs is a load sensor on the tongue. Surge brakes for trailers already work that way, in a sense, using the weight of the trailer pushing against the hitch to operate a hydraulic cylinder to engage the brakes in the trailer. Swap it out for a load sensor, and that should be all the information needed to ensure that a certain percentage of the trailer load is pulling against the hitch at all times, and to engage the regenerative braking and/or conventional brakes when the load is pushing against the hitch.
Plus, it would not surprise me if it also used the 7 way trailer connector which includes a brake signal, in addition to the brake lights, 12v charging, and backup lights.
I think it’s risky to have a self propelled unit without stability control, and if it does have that, the truck and trailer systems are going to have to communicate or there’s going to be problems when one or the other loses traction.
Totally agree. This thing almost needs the establishment of an “8-pin” connector so the vehicle can share telemetry from the gas pedal and traction control to keep everything moving in the same direction at the same speed.
Imagine hitting the brakes and a screwup in the trailer software keeps pushing…