“Making cars is hard” is a term we coined at the old lighting site to explain, with extreme simplicity and brevity, why so few newcomers in the autos space ever succeed. It’s an endlessly complex, heavily regulated, capital-intensive business with vast supply networks and tight competition—and that’s before you even figure out how you’re going to sell the damn things. Or make the electric, software-driven vehicles that seem to be the future.
And it turns out that making electric trucks may be even harder. That leads our morning news roundup for today, as Americans everywhere prepare for travel nightmares and hopefully start slacking off ahead of an unfortunately mid-week Fourth of July holiday. Also on tap today: more on the upcoming United Auto Workers fight, more weirdness at Nissan and some good news for Toyota.
Oh, and I’m not going to devote a whole item or standalone story to this, but Polestar is going to use Tesla’s charging standard too. Called it! Anyway, let’s do the news.
RIP Lordstown Motors, Hello To The Difficult EV Truck Wars
The announcement that Ohio’s Lordstown Motors would enter bankruptcy protection this week is both sad and deeply unsurprising, given everything that startup has been through since the tail end of the Trump years.
But Bloomberg columnist Liam Denning has an interesting angle, which is describing just how hard it is to make pickup trucks, in particular, go battery-electric. It kind of comes down to this: can any automaker build a competent real truck that can do real truck things? As embarrassingly macho as that sounds, there is truth to it; Denning’s column talks about how Rivian’s trucks are more purchased as “lifestyle vehicles” while plenty of F-150 Lightning owners are pissed at how much their range drops off when they actually have to tow something. Batteries, at least at present, are just ill-suited for that:
Trucks, particularly the almost comically macho versions popular in the US, have the aerodynamics of a dumpster. Getting the range to a decent level mostly means installing bigger batteries, which also add more weight, raising the cost.
Consider the Ford F-150 Lightning, the electric version of its marquee model. As Kevin Tynan of Bloomberg Intelligence points out, the sticker price was slightly below $40,000 when orders launched in January 2022, but that has since jumped to almost $60,000, with an average transaction price of around $85,000. Rivian Automotive Inc.’s R1T starts at about $73,000. Forthcoming electric trucks from GM and Tesla aren’t likely to be cheap, either.
And he predicts that all of the automakers are going to have a tough time making an electric truck that can really suit all truck buyers’ needs: towing, off-roading, hauling and just normal driving:
In bridging that, reducing the cost-gap is a base requirement: The average truck buyer’s pre-tax household income is $117,000 while for an electric version it is $161,000, according to Strategic Vision. Ford’s intention to scale up production of electric vehicles rapidly is the standard route to this, but the price war with Tesla earlier this year shows sticking to that will be tough.
Above all, though, it will require somehow making an electric truck at least as compelling as its traditional counterparts, if not more so. When Tesla released the Model S sedan, it succeeded not so much because it was an electric car; more that it was a car made better by being electric. Replicating that feat for trucks remains an industry-wide challenge, whatever Lordstown’s ultimate fate.
“Aerodynamics of a dumpster.” I like that.
The column is worth a read in full. Lordstown is, or was, a questionable effort that probably never really had a shot but the fact is truck duty is going to be tough for trucks. I think it’s inevitable someone will figure this out; we’re still in the early, early days of EV trucks and the segment’s too critical to not get right. In the meantime, this is why I think hybrid trucks show promise too, and I’m glad the new Tacoma’s going that route next.
Some Sales Wins For Toyota
The chip shortage and parts disruptions from the pandemic hit almost every car company hard, but Toyota eked out a pretty good sales year in 2022 nonetheless with about 10.5 million vehicles sold globally. Now, this year’s looking to be even better in some ways as the supply chain seems on the path to recovery. Via Reuters:
The company sold 838,478 vehicles globally last month, including its luxury car brand Lexus, compared to 761,466 vehicles in May 2022, when sales took a heavy hit from the stuttering parts supply because of the pandemic.
In Japan, Toyota’s sales jumped 35.1% to 116,954 units in May, outpacing a 21.5% year-on-year rise in April. Global sales of hybrids grew 25.8% year-on-year to 261,147 units, accounting for just under a third of the total number of vehicles sold worldwide last month.
Toyota still couldn’t crack 10,000 global battery EV sales in May, and that includes the Lexus brand, so that’s still an area where the world’s largest car company is weak. But the rise in hybrid sales is interesting and good to see.
But many of Toyota’s most popular models remain tough to find. I’m at the point now where if a friend calls and asks if I can help them find a RAV4 Prime, I simply hang up the phone and never speak to them again.
Stellantis Ramps Up Jeep Production Ahead Of Possible UAW Strike
This fall’s UAW contract negotiations with the Big Three are expected to be more contentious than they’ve been since, I dunno, maybe the 1970s. That’s because the union will be seeking assurances from the profitable American automakers that workers will still have jobs in the EV era, and they’re also pissed at the amount of plant closures and job offshoring that’s happened in recent years.
Stellantis seems to be anticipating trouble here. So a few months away from what could end up as a strike vote, it’s putting two Jeep plants into “critical status” from July 5 through October 2. That means everybody’s gotta work overtime to make lots of Jeeps, in case any strikes do happen. They’ve played this card before. Here’s Reuters to explain:
Stellantis told workers at both facilities the plants will be in “critical status” from July 5 through October 2. Under the current United Auto Workers (UAW) contract, a plant in critical status can run up to 7 days a week for a period of 90 days and require union employees to work more than 9 hours of overtime, according to a notice sent to employees and reviewed by Reuters.
“The company executives are doing this to build up inventory ahead of a potential strike. They are trying to intimidate us because we will not accept another sellout contract from the United Auto Workers,” the rank-and-file committee, an independent group of mostly union workers for the Warren Truck facility, said in a blog post.
Stellantis said the reason was strong sales. “Due to high demand for the Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer and Jeep Grand Cherokee, Stellantis has put the Warren Truck, Detroit Assembly Complex – Jefferson, and Kokomo Engine plants on critical plant status,” the company said in a statement. “The plants may run up to seven days a week for the next three months to increase sales of these popular models.”
Negotiations between the Detroit Three and the UAW leaders are set to begin on July 13 and the contracts expire in mid-September. Any strikes could further squeeze new vehicle inventory, which—see above—is still pretty battered and tenuous these days.
Nissan Accused Of Putting Cameras In Former Executive’s Home
I told you, Nissan’s weird as hell these days. (Allegedly, anyway.) Amid the surprise departure of now-former COO Ashwani Gupta, Reuters is reporting Nissan installed cameras inside Gupta’s home to monitor him and that this happened at the behest of the CEO:
Nissan has been investigating a claim that Chief Executive Makoto Uchida carried out surveillance of the carmaker’s second-in-command to acquire leverage to remove him from the company because of Gupta’s opposition to some terms in a new partnership deal with Renault.
Nissan directors were briefed on the preliminary findings of the investigation into the surveillance claim by U.S. law firm Davis Polk & Wardwell at a board meeting on June 20 at the company’s Yokohama headquarters, the two people said.
The preliminary report said Nissan had installed two sets of security cameras at the entrance to Gupta’s house in Tokyo’s Shibuya ward, the people said. It said the first system was for use by a private security firm while the second system was set up for access by Nissan’s internal security team to monitor Gupta, the two people said.
Oooookay. That this is coming up during a board meeting feels pretty serious. If it’s true, well… you’d think Nissan would’ve learned by now that it could use a few years without any unhinged corporate scandals.
Your Turn
What truck, or automaker, do you think is most promising in the electric space? There’s not much to choose from yet, but that’ll change soon enough. Who do you think will get this right?
For a long time many (not all) truck buyers have focused on what their trucks are capable of doing not what they will actually do with their trucks. Perception is more important that reality. I remember a time when people used utility trailers behind small cars for things that people now want 1 ton daily driver trucks for, just in case they want to haul or tow.
If you have the space for a giant truck and whatever it will tow you have the space for a small EV to daily drive and an older well maintained ICE towing pick up truck. I am rather sure I can get a basic new towing truck and a daily driver EV for less that the cost of a loaded f-350 platinum.
Part of that is towing expectations are too high. The SAE towing test up a 10-mile grade in the Arizona desert is ridiculous for most buyers and leads to mfrs zeroing out the tow rating of almost everything smaller than a midsize CUV including all sedans.
There should be an “occasional, max 40 mph” tow figure which would be the mass-market advertised one and the current SAE J2807 standard reserved for the hotshotting industry and RV shoppers.
It’s ridiculous until you visit Arizona and realize that ten mile grades are everywhere. And buying a pickup that can tow your trailer except in the Southwest is a real problem when you get there.
Not sure what a max 40mph test would do, when’s the last time you towed a trailer and didn’t break 40? You need to go at least 55 just around town, not counting hopping on the freeway. And so many buyers of pickups are primarily towing a camper trailer or a boat anyways.
except that would be a diminishing option. a decently equipped ICE half ton tows qute a lot these days and gets 20+MPG.
It’s just baffling to me that we basically went straight from ICE to BEV for trucks. Chevrolet had a hybrid truck in fucking 2009 and even the Volt went on sale 12 years ago at this point. It’s baffling that they can’t figure out a solution where you have a small amount of electric range and still have a gas engine for towing when needed.
Well the problems with a range extended EV get worse with long distance towing. If you run out of batteries and you have a trailer and you get to a hill, a little 20hp generator just ain’t gonna cut it. You need a big 200+hp engine to drag that trailer. If you have a big 6 cylinder motor, it’s dumb to run it as a generator, you might as well connect it to the wheels.
Okay so it’s not a range extended EV anymore, it’s a plug in hybrid. This could work, but those batteries and motors take space and weight, which compromises payload, which is kind of a big deal.
There was also a hybrid Malibu, the Bolt is still selling well but they’re killing it, and that happened to the Volt too. GM’s leapfrog strategy for electrification leaving a wake of orphans…
It’s also leaving them perpetually dependent on their latest moonshot. Meanwhile, Toyota’s doing an “and also” which means they’re selling the RAV4 Prime and gen 5 Prius hand-over-fist so much that it almost doesn’t matter the BZ4X is a flop.
To be fair, those Hybrids were crap and the Volt was a Prius competitor that never caught on. The Bolt is on old architecture and the sooner GM can stop supporting it, the better of they’ll be as a company. Not great from the consumer standpoint, but I understand it for sure.
I am/was considering a Malibu hybrid but the new battery packs are already somewhat hard to find and they’re still new enough that nobody knows for sure how long they last. It’s a similar deal with the electrified Spark, orphaned with an unobtainable battery.
It’s called the Ford PowerBoost and I have one. You’ll still get terrible mileage when towing because physics, but around town and long trips sans trailer you’ll get over 20 mpg all the time. It’s a really sweet setup and you can power things with it too.
RE: Lordstown
Everything that man touches turns into shit. Prove me wrong.
The Lord?
Not surprised Ford is getting pushback on the Lightning’s towing abilities. EVs are just a terrible way to tow right now. A few brief reasons:
Anyone trying to sell an EV based on its towing capabilities is being disingenuous at best, and an outright charlatan at worst.
Heck, some people get 50% range unloaded when it’s really cold. Add a trailer and a hill, and you can literally go like 80 miles before you’re done. Yeah this is worst case, but you’d be pretty pissed if you were on the side of the road in 5° weather with a dead battery that was at 100% an hour ago.
Grand Wagoneers are ugly. The window trim in particular is a pure fail. That is all.
They are so expensive, and the window trim in particular looks so cheap.
Lookup speedkar99 on YouTube, he does mechanical analyses of cars and absolutely destroys the Wagoneer. What a bloated turd of a car.
I really think that Toyota needs to acquire something like lucid to properly position themselves in the EV race, and they can aim for high profit/low volume EV sales to still fulfill their philosophy of hybrids being more important
It feels like anytime “truck stuff” gets mentioned it really just means payload and towing, right?
The F150 lightning is pretty much in line with ICE F150’s in terms of payload, so it’s just towing / recharging that’s the issue.
Lightning capacity is 8500, so that is ~50% lower than its ICE counterpart. However, it seems like the Silverado EV has a higher capacity of 10k. From a capacity standpoint, it seems that ICE has an advantage, but I imagine that gap can/will be closed.
In terms of range, I don’t know that a ICE F150 mpg is while towing, but lets assume its half of EPA rating, or 12mpg. With a 23 gallon tank, that’s a range of about 275. So that’s quite a bit more than a lightning that is about 130 (80% of 160, or half the non-towing range).
If you look at the silverado ev, that range is about 180.
Biggest difference being that you can fill up a gas tank in ~5 min, vs adding maybe 50-75 miles in that time for an EV.
I guess I’d just be interested to know how frequently trucks are towing 7500+ lbs more than 180 miles? Here in Michigan, I know it’s about 250 miles to get to Traverse City from Metro Detroit. That would mean a ~10min charge (assuming everything works, which hopefully the change to NACS means it will), vs not having to stop at all in an ICE.
After typing all of that, I’m not really sure what my conclusion is. I guess it’s that EV trucks don’t fit all needs, yet. But the idea that “truck stuff” means having to do long range towing just doesn’t seem like it’s all encompassing.
Anyway, maybe it’ll be an even playing field someday. In the meantime, if you need to tow a bunch of stuff over long distances…but the ICE half of 3/4 ton and move on. But I expect EV’s to close the gap, and in the end we’re just talking about a bunch or extremely expensive, huge vehicles, regardless of what type of motor they have.
Well given recent pickup buyers, the usual use case is daily driver 6 days a week, tow the camper or the boat on weekends. I think long distance towing is the only towing a lot of folks do. So that’s big problem if long distance towing is its only weakness.
There are a lot of people who don’t tow at all, and a fair number who tow their boat to the local lake. Combine those people and the limited availability of EV pickups and you can probably sell most of them to people who won’t be adversely affected.
I’d still like to see PHEV pickups, which would cover the people who commute in their pickup and then tow a camper out somewhere farther away. I think a good PHEV could cover the majority of use cases and drastically reduce fuel use and emissions.
long distance driving is also the problem. the faster and longer you go, the faster the range falls off. it is the same with all EV’s. they are happiest in town driving.
The one exception I’ve seen work really well locally (Boston) is contractors buying them en masse for jobs with a local service area.
They aren’t going far out for a job site. Almost always within 25 miles, with 40 being rare. For home construction crews, having a built in generator for tools makes things a lot easier. When you’re only going 10-25 miles one way at most, hauling some equipment is a non-issue.
Place literally down the street from me switched his entire fleet. LOVES them, as do his employees. Few other local contractors in the neighborhood switched as well, and same thing. Even cities are starting to buy in, since they’re super local by definition.
How did he acquire a fleet of Lightnings when the work truck is vaporware and the ones are the market are 90K Lariats? Serious question. The one contractor I know bought the demo mule from a dealer.
Probably put in a fleet order immediately when they announced. I think the Pro trim has largely been sent to commercial buyers, and reports indicate they are making them. Early reports indicated 1 in 5 Lightnings made were Pro trim, mostly for fleet sales.
https://www.autonews.com/sales/many-early-ford-f-150-lightnings-meant-commercial-buyers
I have a dozen or so Pro Trim units for fleet still. They are still filling the orders they had delayed. the low 50K versions are long gone though. price creep is real for the lightning.
The 14000 lbs towing configurations for half tons are limited and few are buying it. Most crew cab 4x4s will tow somewhere in the region of 8000-11000 pounds, same as the EVs, but anyone towing over 7000 regularly is going to move to a 3/4 ton. That said, you can get bigger gas tanks (I’ve got a 36 gallon one), so you’ll run out of bladder before you run out of gas. If you’re towing anywhere on the west coast to go camping, it may be a long time before you see another gas station. If something where to happen, that 5 gallon can in the back can get me to the next station, but how would you get an ev charged in the middle of a desert? That’s why I’d prefer PHEVs-still do truck stuff but only pay truck gas prices as needed.
As it stands, these mid level EVs are at least $20k over similarly priced gas models. I don’t see fuel savings ever making that up unless you have solar and only charge at home. There’s really no upside other than they are fast (not that my 5.0 is lacking).
It is not really how often it occurs, just that it occurs, no need to buy a truck if it cannot do truck stuff when required.
I mean, I’ll fully agree with the fact that BEV trucks can’t do “truck things” as well as ICE ones. At the same time… do they really need to yet? A not insignificant amount of pickups these days are luxury lifestyle vehicles, and BEV trucks will suit a lot of those buyers just fine. Lest anyone believe otherwise, ICE and hybrid trucks also aren’t going anywhere any time soon, barring a massive technological breakthrough. If BEV trucks are available alongside ICE and hybrid ones, what’s the problem?
I know that they seem silly to a lot of people on here, but it’s a market Tesla and Rivian are making a play for. It’s really not a market that established automakers in the pickup space can afford ignore and fall behind in, even if it’s in its infancy and not initially super profitable and practical. That said, I’d say that Ford currently has the most potential in the BEV Truck space, and GM shows real promise. Rivian has too many teething to become more than a niche player any time soon, and I’m convinced the CyberTurd will be a hideous, ungainly, shoddily built sales flop. But that’s just, like, my opinion man.
Regarding the UAW, the time is right for them to make some demands. Things got a little excessive in the pre-bankruptcy era, but they’ve gone too far in the other direction. Despite record profitability, starting pay at the American OEM plants is only $15-17 per hour, which has barely budged in 15 years. Neither has the top rate for “non-skilled” assembly workers of $28/hour. The only way you’re really making a good living at the job in 2023 is a combination of a fat profit sharing check (not guaranteed) or lots of overtime, especially when you’re starting out. I’ve read that auto plants are actually having a difficult time recruiting new employees, which is wild. These used to be highly sought after jobs that people would fight over. Now they’re barely competitive in the marketplace.
Regarding Stellantis: I have a friend who got stranded Monday night on the side of the interstate in Tampa when her rental Grand Cherokee – that had all of 263 miles on it – shit the bed. She said the computer just went nuts or something; the screens started putting up weird stuff that looked like code on a hacker’s screen in a CBS cop show, the doors started locking and unlocking repeatedly, and the transmission sounded like it was stuck in overdrive. She got it to the side of the road and put it in park, but then it wouldn’t shut off, even after she got out of it and had the key in her hand. So maybe while they’re in “critical status” they can spare a few minutes for quality control.
Some things never change.
The Rivian Amazon truck is promising. Seen quite a few around where I live. Would be a great work van in urban areas. I like their pickup and suv but I think Rivian survives based on just the commercial segnent alone. Although I could easily see them getting eaten up by a bigger car company.
Most promising in the EV truck space? Volvo, not the car company, the truck company. They have box trucks, class 8 tractors, and in between for truck type work- https://www.volvotrucks.com/en-en/trucks/renewable-fuels/electric-trucks.html, https://www.greencarcongress.com/2023/05/20230515-volvo.html
It could be bullshit, but I read somewhere that Volvo commercial truck sales are a reliable indicator of global economic trade health.
If anyone does regular towing, they should still buy an ICE truck. But, as mentioned by other commenters, the most typical use case for what seems like 90% of pickups on the road is glorified commuter car, so the current crop of EV trucks seem to pull that off well.
I’ll keep beating the drum with you all here on this site – plug in hybrids. Plug in hybrids. Plug in hybrids. If the goal is to reduce emissions and reliance on oil, this is the best current way to do it.
What truck, or automaker, do you think is most promising in the electric space?
I don’t see any EV trucks here, just a bunch of overly accessorized electric SUTs. An EV truck would be nice though, somebody should try making one.
I mean, since most trucks are just commuter vehicles the ones coming to market are probably fine. If one needs a truck for truck things, the EV tech to make that realistic just isn’t there yet. Give it a couple of years.
Im currently on vacation on the NC beaches (I don’t intend this comment as a slight to the state, my wife is from the triangle and I’ve had a lot of good times here) and literally every 3rd car is some sort of lifted monstrosity. They’re all going at least 15 over at all times, one of them pulled up to honk at my sister’s friend who’s with us on the sidewalk yesterday, some doofus was rolling coal in his stupid fucking Cummins in traffic the other day. I even saw a lifted Taco that had a pair of back window stickers that simply said HATE. I’m sure it was piloted by a wholesome fellow.
Shit is absolutely absurd. I’m usually in the “let people enjoy things” camp but when your joy involves inconveniencing literally everyone around you then you suck. No one needs these dumb ass things. The wife and I have a dinner reservation about 30 miles down the peninsula tonight and I’m sure I’ll have one on my tail pissed that I’m only doing 65 in a 50 as soon as I’m on the main road.
Which leads me to my next question…do cops just not pull these guys over because they assume they’re allies/there’s some sort of unspoken rule? I have literally never seen a brodozer get pulled over and they’re easily the most antisocial drivers on the road. I’d rather deal with some doofus who has something to prove in a Mustang GT/scat pack Dodge than your average brodozer enjoyer because at least they’re only piloting 2 tons with a low center of gravity. It’s a whole different ballgame when it’s an 8 foot tall/7000 pounds fragile masculinity tank.
So that made me think… In the Kansas City area we have quite a few trucks/drivers that fit your description. Quite a few of them with limo tint and tinted windshields and on top of that a bunch running around with no plates or like a decoctive plate on the rear (no front plates required in KS) I have no idea how they avoid getting pulled over. It seems like cops could drive a bunch of ticket revenue for the tint alone if they felt like it.
Fellow KC resident here. The trucks are registered in MO. MO has much looser tinting rules than the KS side, trucks registered as “farm” vehicles (the requirements for this are super hilariously low) dont need plates at all but technically they ant be more than a certain distance away from the “farm” but also the main one is a vehicle that can tow 12k+lbs doesnt need the rear plate because the state assumes they are used for towing a lot so the rear wont be visible anyway. In practice this means any full size truck can get by without having a rear plate, because it’s not like the DMV (run by third party contractors) is going to bother making sure your specific configuration of F-150 is capable of 12k towing.
It’s super dumb.
As an Idaho resident, “farm truck” registration is baffling to me. I’m used to any vehicle on public roads needing regular registration. If registration is an excessive burden on farmers, maybe don’t charge $500 a year.
Those guys in the brodozers are cops.
Dude I’m from the South and toxic masculinity is the norm. Wait till you are in line at Starbucks behind some open carry shitbird with a Glock on his hip because GUN RIGHTS.
I think Volvo is the most promising manufacturer in the EV space right now. They bet hard on electrification and are reaping the rewards. They currently have the best PHEVs on the market, their full EVs are quite well reviewed, and they’re about to release the most important EV in years in the EX30, which is an extremely appealing package. Plus that slick minimalist Swedish design that seems to always age like fine wine and the fact that they’re about to have access to Tesla’s network?
Winner winner chicken dinner. I do wish they could find a way to make their cars more engaging to drive but I fully understand that enthusiasts aren’t their target demographic, so I won’t opine about it too much. If I was looking to go electric in the next few years (and the wife and I likely will be in some capacity) I would go directly to Volvo without passing go or collecting $200.
Collect the $200. You’ll need all the dollars for the Volvo.
You’re not wrong!
I know and I’m not happy about it.
How about carmakers stick to electrifying cars and rather than jump head first into making trucks, hybridize them? Oh wait everyone wants a truck to lets make an overly expensive thing more overly expensive…and now even more useless for what the people need if for.
There is a multitude of “promising” battery tech on the horizon. Once some of the battery issues have been shaken out then start worrying about all electric trucks. Instead of trim levels you could have usage trims (tow, off-road, hybrid of the two, etc.).
Heck you could even start shrinking trucks back down and use the higher torque offered by electric. I know, I know, how dare I suggest trucks even in their current form are too big, and mall rated instead of trail rated, and this is coming from a Ram 1500 owner that would rather something smaller with 4wd or Awd. Maverick I am here for even with the problems of cost and supply, but I am dying for Toyota, Ram, Chevy, anyone other than Honda and Hyundai. Santa Cruz and Ridgeline just don’t do it for me, but that is just my opinion…
With EVs being the new cool gadget and trucks being super popular in the US, I understand manufacturers trying to jump on that train. But the use case for trucks is different than cars, and that can’t be ignored. Hybridization is really the way to go, but manufacturers dragged their feet on that tech, and I think people see it as a step backwards now. The phrase “range extender” may be the only way electric trucks move forward.
And Lordstown always seemed like a GM front to me, like an EV experiment or something. Sorry to see them go under, but the EV luxury truck market seems very narrow to stake your entire business on.
I honestly think that GM “sold” the plant to Lordstown Motors in order to get Trump to stop putting them on blast on Twitter and mitigate the bad PR of closing a U.S. plant. They fronted the $40M to Lordstown Motors to buy it and then quietly forgave the loan. I have no doubt in my mind that GM never thought they were actually a serious company with a chance. Think about it, why would you subsidize a new competitor in one of your most profitable segments? It doesn’t make any sense.
You know you can buy something smaller than a Ram 1500 with 4wd, right?
Thought RAM mentioned having a range extender planned for their 1500 EV? That may be the best current option for electric trucks to do all the things.
Outside of that, out of the big 3, Ford’s the only one actually selling EVs in volume, F150 Lighting, Transit EV, Mach-e. GM cancelled the Bolts, sold like 5 Lyriqs and Hummers, and says they’ll start selling their Ultium models ‘soon’, they’re getting as bad as Elon with that schtick.
Chrysler has their plug-ins, which is actually the smart move at the moment, that is the phase we should be in now, but apparently making several different powertrains is too hard so everybody gotta go all electric all at once.
So you hang up on those asking for a Rav4 Prime, what about a Prius Prime? I really want to drive one of those things. Not sure if I want to own it yet though.
Making electric trucks is not hard. Its a DT & Torch collab.
Step 1 – DT & Torch source an old rusty pickup.
Step 2 – DT finds loophole to get 5 extra new free i3 batteries.
Step 3 – Torch chainsaws off the bed behind the cab.
Step 4 – They duct tape the bed to DT’s i3.
Step 5 – Install extra batteries in truck bed.
Done, and you have the worlds first sub $20k rusty EV truck with 6 wheels/3 axels range about 600 miles and range extender!
O/T: I saw a Toyota Crown on the road for the first time this morning. It was all black so the weird color scheme wasn’t apparent. My impression of it once I realized what I was looking at was largely: it’s kind of odd, but not entirely out of place in a world of bulbous SUVs and lifted hatchbacks.
I have to wonder if the majority of the sales will be in black?
You don’t have to get the weird color scheme. It looks decent in red, in my opinion. I sat in one and found it felt a little smaller and less nice inside than expected, but maybe I just wanted it to be an Avalon.
I’ve seen one of them in white, I agree with it not being all that out of place.
GM is about to be on its third strike with EV’s, but I see them having the most success. They’ve had lots of success with the Volt, Bolt, and their new Ultium platform looks to be very promising. With the ability to build SUV’s, Crossovers, and Sedans on one platform at scale and profit for multiple brands? They could easily win the fleet contracts into the future, securing their position as top of the pile.
Stellantis has a long way to go and the most catchup to do, but they are in a prime position to learn from others mistakes and make the best product available. However, only having a vague outline and a few concept cars, they are definitely going to be the last to the party. Unless they make a big spectacle, it won’t amount to much for them.
Ford is an interesting case. The F150 Lightning feels more like a product study than a full attempt at EV pickups. Ford has the potential to build the best fleet of EV’s, but doing it with the F150 means that any criticism will always stick around. Ford might be better off turning the Transit, Maverick and Ranger EV first then making the F150 a flagship like Ram and GM intend to.
My flag is on GM out of the big 3.
Tesla is of course the winner for cars and crossovers, but I don’t see the Cybertruck ever being made or winning any sales records. With the Supercharger network opening up, the quality and service side of Tesla needs to be improved. Otherwise, why buy a Tesla when your Polestar or Cadillac can use the same chargers?
Rivian is a cool company, but I don’t see them lasting into the future. More than likely I could see a Japanese or European company buying them out and using their tech for future vehicles.
VW has a shot too, but I think they are not 100% sold on EV’s being massive movers in the sales department. They will make quirky and fun EV’s until the demand outsells their ICE vehicles, which will be awhile.
As for the rest? Hard to say. Kia and Hyundai quality will always be a concern. Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and the rest of the Japanese brands don’t seem 100% committed and they will rely on brand recognition as they eventually come up with vehicles to fill the EV demand of their customers. Europe is a mess. Polestar is cool, but feels like the Studebaker of our time. BMW and Mercedes seem to be building compliance vehicles, so they won’t make any market leaders until demand exceeds their internal expectations.
There are plenty of around town fleet or landscaping trucks that could switch to electric, but I tend to agree with the consensus view here that lithium supplies are better used in multiple smaller batteries than in a few big truck packs.
If electric trucks are ever to be viable, a new battery chemistry is going to be required. I just hope it arrives before politically imposed deadlines make it impossible to buy a gas-powered truck.
Clearly this is all Hoovie’s fault.
That guy who does the towing reviews?
EVs? Mostly the ones from the big 3. They may not be better but are well known to most consumers.
Myself, I like the Polestar as I would be looking to a sedan.