Life is entirely a matter of perspective. If my neighbor decided to create a half-mile twisty karting track next to me I’d do what any reasonable person does and buy a go-kart. Unfortunately, not everyone is as reasonable as I am and that’s why the local authorities shut down the operation within minutes of its first use.
This whole story will be a litmus test for your feelings about race cars, zoning regulations, sound, neighbors, and the benefits of asking for permission in an attempt to avoid forgiveness. I’m quite a YIMBY (yes-in-my-backyard) although my YIMBYism usually revolves around building more affordable housing.
It’s amusing to extend the concept of YIMBYism to race tracks as, in general, I also think there should be more race tracks in this world. This is clearly not a commonly held belief in Suburban Baltimore.
He’s Doing It All For Achilles
The best way to be truly successful at racing is to have a parent or parents who are invested in your racing. And by invested, of course, I mean willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money to help you win karting trophies.
This isn’t unique to karting as trying to get your kid to become a professional in almost any endeavor, whether athletic or even artistic, can encourage some questionable financial decisions. Up here in New York you have pre-teens getting vocal lessons from Broadway extras and advanced swim lessons for seven-year-olds.
It’s just that, as Aedan recently pointed out, the costs associated with getting into racing are at the extreme end. Take our protagonist (or antagonist if you listen to his neighbors), Charles Siperko, who is the CEO of a roofing company in the area.
His 10-year-old son Achilles is obsessed with racing and has been working his way up through the karting world so that one day he can become an open-wheel racer. Here’s what Siperko told the local Fox affiliate:
“He wants to be an open wheel driver. So, it’s hard work,” says Siperko, “He’s out of town every weekend. He’ll get up at 5am, go to the gym to work out during the week. He reads about racing, watches videos.”
He says his son eats, sleeps, and breathes motorsports. While other kids his age are hanging out with friends, Achilles spends every weekend traveling to Florida for practice and across the country for races. Along the way, he’s collected some impressive hardware, but the end destination is becoming a professional racer.
Drive, talent, and a parent able to take you to Florida every weekend are the keys to making it in this industry, but that last bit is probably the most important.
The Track Looks Pretty Good
Going to Florida every weekend has to be a lot for a small child and the drive from Highland, Maryland to Orlando is about 13 hours with little traffic. Lacking a high-quality karting track nearby, Siperko did the only logical thing he could do and put $100,000 into a kart track in his backyard.
This track looks good from space with a nice variety of turns and different configurations to make the most out of a half-mile space. In the video, it’s even more obvious that there are some elevation changes as well.
One thing that sticks out is that there’s a brand-new house that’s quite large, with a swimming pool, tennis courts, and a lot of open space adjacent to this parcel that contains the karting track. It seems a little out of place with the other homes around it. Anyway, just a totally random observation.
The track was completed in January and it’s sadly only been driven one time. From that same article, Siperko says “He got on the track for 15mins. If 15 minutes! Maybe 10 minutes. Then my neighbors called the police and obviously they called the County.”
Strange!
The Neighbors Do Not Recognize How Nice The Track Is
A quick perusal of the Greater Highland Crossroads Association Community Group’s Facebook Page shows that people are generally not on board with this exactly.
Here’s what Sarah Troxel, who is reportedly the mom, said:
My ten-year-old son eat, breathes, and sleeps motorsports. His passion holds the seeds of a future professional car-racing career, but it’s not an easy journey. For a year and a half, he’s been karting. Every single weekend, he makes sacrifices that children of his age aren’t usually asked to – traveling all the way to Florida to practice. Playground time with friends, birthday parties, socializing at family events – he misses it all for his single-minded pursuit of becoming a professional racer. We’ve built a go-kart track on our private property so during the warm months, he can train at home. This is not intended to be a public track, no races will be held here nor will it in any way shape or form be open to the public!
He’s just a kid trying to make it in a difficult career. Here’s a response from someone named Kelly Frazer:
These people ought to be strung up, IMHO. Major portions of the track are right up against property lines, and construction was done with total disregard to set-backs, to say nothing of the impact this might have on adjacent properties. No application for a permit, no environmental impact statements. Numerous rules and regs about such constructions totally ignored. And now they claim they will sign up for a conditional use permit, whereby they will agree to whatever conditions the county might impose which would then allowing them to continue. Asking for forgiveness, vs permission. These scofflaws say the track is strictly private, not open to the public. They also claim that go-carts these days run on batteries, so noise is minimal. Pure speculation. I believe there is no precedent for such a facility within this zoning area, so the county has nothing to base any decision on. They will have to make up whatever conditions would be imposed in order to agree that such a conditional use permit can be issued. So there is the rub. I believe the permitting system is set up to favor issuing conditional uses in this neighborhood. Valid conditional uses include doctor’s offices, day care centers, and a number of others that have precedence and presence in the area. It is possible that the county will agree with its other residents that such a facility can never be permitted, and that there are no conditions adequate to allow such a thing. Of course the lawyers hired by the track owners say that they will conform to whatever conditions might be imposed, which position assumes that a set of conditions can be put forward. I think the county should come down hard on these people, deny any such activity as impossible to precondition, and then make them adhere to wet land remediation and removal of all structure within prior agreed to and recorded set-backs. Under penalty of fine. If they put me in charge, that’s what I’d do. But I’m not in charge, never will be, and since lawyers are involved, there will be a fight, it will not be pretty, great amounts of time and yet more money will be wasted toward an outcome that I can’t predict.
That bit about not getting permits is true, according to Siperko, who has airtight logic:
“I called paving companies, and they told me that it’s my property. If it’s not touching a main road I don’t need a permit. It’s my property and I believed that” said Siperko, “I’m not in a neighborhood. This is a family farm.”
I cannot confirm that the image from Facebook is accurate, but a search of county records seems to confirm that it’s correct:
The area highlighted in black is the property listed as owned by Siperko and you can see a house that’s registered to a different owner right at the edge of the track.
There was a community meeting a few weeks ago and this was addressed, though most people seemed unhappy according to a Baltimore Fishbowl reporter who attended the meeting:
Nearly all who spoke at the meeting argued against the track, though degrees of animosity toward it varied. Some went so far as to insult Siperko’s parenting directly. Most, though, focused on the impact of the racetrack on their quality of life, property value, and the environment.
“It’s so frustrating,” said JoJo Lerner, a resident who also lives on Mink Hollow Road. “He said he Googled, and he didn’t see that he needed a permit for this. But it wasn’t just that. He didn’t talk to any of his neighbors. He didn’t tell anyone…. It definitely lowers the value of everyone’s property around it, because who wants to live right next to this go-kart thing?”
Surprising your neighbors with a race track, if they are not me, probably isn’t going to work. Even I can see that. It’s now on the Howard County government to determine if a conditional use with some restrictions (limited hours/electric karts only) will be accepted or if he’ll have to remove the track.
This Could Have Probably Been Done Better
Far be it for me to suggest how someone else should raise his kids, but perhaps it would have been more successful if there had been some discussion with neighbors before the track was finished. This guy is a roofer so he’s probably filed a permit before.
If he’d have asked me I’d have definitely said yes to the track. Even a high-powered modern go-kart isn’t that much louder than the kind of yard equipment that many community neighbors either use or contract out to other people to use on their behalf.
Of course, Thomas made the great suggestion in Slack that maybe some arrangement would have to be made. In order for the track to be usable the dad would have to agree that my family gets some use of the facility. This is really a boon for everyone as steel sharpens steel and it would give Achilles someone to race against (in this case I would be the steel getting sharpened).
If you want one badly enough and file the permits, this isn’t an impossible journey. Alan Wilzing built a race track in his front yard and it only took him an estimated $500,000 in legal fees to get it through the local government. It’s all worth it for an IndyCar contract, right?
As a guy who lives in a neighborhood that’s pretty tightly knit, I’ll say that this mostly comes down to neighbors who don’t know each other all that well and haven’t built a sense of community. Mr. Track Guy should know his neighbors well enough to go to them ahead of time, talk about his plans, get their input, and then act accordingly (even if that means not building the track). The neighbors should know him and his son well enough to understand what a track could do for the kid, what the potential issues would be, and then weigh the pros and cons with some sense of compassion for the kid. Maybe he moves the track. Maybe he puts up landscaping or physical features to cut down the noise and such. Again, maybe he doesn’t build it. But this business of him building it without telling his neighbors and then having his neighbors out to get him tells you that these people have no cohesive sense of community. That’s really too bad for all of them.
Parent of two, here. What a track could do for the kid? I don’t see many upsides to this beyond reinforcing a sense of entitlement and a “screw you” attitude towards you community.
I’d like to think this is a joke. I mean… going to Florida every weekend to “practice?” I see at least 5 tracks in suburban Baltimore…
Well, strictly in terms of what it would do for the kid, I’d consider it similar to a regulation basketball court behind the house for a kid who’s looking to play serious basketball. It’s helpful to have a place to practice right where you live rather than having to travel to get to one. My point, though, is that it’s not the track that’s the problem. It’s how the guy went about putting it in. As I said, in a neighborhood with good relations between everyone, they’d have all talked it out before it went in. He’d have made his case, the neighbors would have listened with sympathy, and they’d have all come to some agreement. Maybe the track doesn’t go in. Maybe it goes in but it’s modified. Maybe it goes in but there are agreements regarding when it gets used. Lots of possibilities there, but it all hinges on a cooperative group of neighbors who respect each other. From the looks of things, none of these neighbors respect each other.
You don’t need a permit because it is illegal, you can’t get a permit.
Who wants to listen to kids driving around all day long. He eats sleeps and dreams the neighbors are going to listen to thecars all day long. He is an idiot thinking anyone wants this unlicensed track is acceptable. Arrest prosecute and eliminate ask before you do it moron.
Yeah, the leaf blower guy does maybe 15 – 20 minutes of work maybe once a week. You think young Senna here is doing 15 minutes of laps or hour after hour of laps…? (if he was allowed to use the track.)
“the leaf blower guy does maybe 15 – 20 minutes of work maybe once a week”
Maybe. But there’s also the mower. A lot of lawn guys use a blower after mowing. And that’s *per house*.
Sometimes I see a lawn service guy across the street walking around the yard blowing nothing at all with a leaf blower. Just giving the grass a blow dry I guess.
This guy just doesn’t own enough property to build this track. His neighbors are waaaaay too close. Ask the management of Laguna Seca what happens when you have wealthy neighbors within a mile of your track…
My old neighbor badly wanted his boy to be a moto-x star, he was willing to spend any amount of time and money and among other things bulldozed a track into his back yard. Zing, zing, zing, all day long. Nobody bought a house here expecting to have to listen to that. Then all the repeat-regional champion spoiled brat really learned was how to kick other people down in order to get the big win for himself, got into drugs, became a thief (I was especially affected on that one) and was a convicted felon at 18. Whoopsie-daisy, entitled parents took care of entitled baby-boy just a bit too well and without having to learn on his own how to function in the world he just became a whole bunch of nothing. I hope the parallels here stop somewhere short, and sorry about daddy’s pocket change.
This lot is zoned RRDEO which is Residential Rural zoning with a DEO overlay.
Setback: All uses (other than structures) not accessory to farming or single-family detached dwellings shall be at least 50 feet from public street rights-of-way and 30 feet from all other lot lines.
That took 5 minutes. And I didn’t even know the address. Looks generally like it is closer then 30 ft to at least two of the neighboring lot lines.
Also, I don’t this is an approved accessory use based on the list in the zoning code.
Whether you like the rules or not, they are what they are. And these were some of the easiest to find I have ever encountered. That county website is so easy to use, I’m amazed. I’m guessing there are possibly more rules that would apply. But clearly this person gave zero fucks about the laws or his neighbors. And now he is dealing with the consequences.
Cool track though. Something I wish I could do (legally, of course)
This is the other side of all the race tracks that have closed in recent (and not so recent) years because of urban encroachment. While I support the tracks that existed before the houses were built, as an intellectually honest and consistent car enthusiast, I tend to side with the other homeowners when someone creates a nuisance in an existing neighborhood.
You reminded me of a new subdivision that was built literally in the shadow of a major amusement park here, and then the new neighbors complained about the roller coaster noise and weekend fireworks shows. Did you not see the massive lift hill and 1/3 scale Eifel Tower centerpiece of the park when you toured the home and neighborhood?
Exactly. So either these people are completely clueless, or they got a sweet deal on the property knowing that once they were established as homeowners/tax payers they could greatly increase their property’s value by successfully restricting the existing noise maker, if not completely shutting it down. Which is more likely?
I’ve dealt with enough of these types of people over the years to know it’s the latter.
There was some land on the edge of but still in an industrial area in town that must have been too small for a commercial development so they put a few homes there.
Literally IN an industrial park. Neighbors on every three sides of the four house cluster are commercial buildings – behind the cluster is the interstate.
People moved in and immediately started complaining to the city about truck noise.
This is an example of why I claim that my job is to protect homeowners from their their developers. You know that developer walked away richer for the experience and these (likely first-time) homeowners were gullible enough to buy the homes without thinking.
These particular homeowners needed protection from themselves. The developers literally could not have hidden the character of the location.
The best access from the highway has you taking the exit for the industrial park and then driving through to almost the end.
There is one route that could get you to the homes without driving past industrial buildings, but that would bring you by the dump.
Some people march forward no matter how much reality you put in their paths.
I love the Autopian, I really do… but I wish they’d tread a little more carefully on issues involving building, permits and zoning.
It’s a hot-button issue that gets people wound up. Congratulations. You got your “clicks.”
It’s also an incredibly complicated subject with very real life-safety and quality of life implications that are not easy to understand – or explain in the comments on a car web site. There’s a reason engineers and architects have to be licensed.
I used to work in Baltimore. “Suburban Baltimore” is not “in the country.” This family has neighbors close by. How loud is this going to be for them? Has run-off been dealt with or are they going to flood the neighboring property from all of this new impermeable pavement? How fast do these carts go? Is there any possibility a driver loses control and winds up hitting something (or someone) on a neighboring property?
Short story… this isn’t a simple issue of “bad/excessive government regulations.” But it is certainly an issue of an inconsiderate, entitled asshole of a neighbor.
I don’t see anything in this article that suggests that this was a good idea, nor that Matt wrote the article for “Clicks”. If I recall correctly, a main purpose of the Autopian was to build a site that encouraged discussion about all sorts of automotive related topics, and I think this qualifies as such.
It is safe to assume that the owner of the track did a lot of the wrong things here, and probably has a $100k pit in his stomach that he is desperately trying every possible way to not have to fork over another $100k remedying the spots where he went wrong.
I also hope that the government, neighbors, and owner can come to a solution that works for everybody instead of just chalking it up to “Let’s make an example out of him” but I have little hope for cooler heads here.
Yes, it’s called the owner who stepped over the line does everything he needs to do to make it right for the neighbors. Anything less is rewarding him for pulling this nonsense. A private karting track is not required to develop a professional driver, and I’d argue that it is likely more detrimental to the kid’s potential development.
There really is no solution to this that leaves the track intact. What the guy should have done is lease a parking lot at a closed mall or unoccupied commercial building. If weather is a problem, he should have leased a warehouse and set up and indoor track.
A race track in a residential area (farm, my ass) is the least sensible solution to this situation. You want to support your kid’s dreams? Don’t expect the neighbors to chip in.
$100k to fix this? Removing this with government supervision is going to cost him more than that. If he’s got to restore wetlands or has done anything to contaminate ground water this could be a very expensive adventure for superdad.
Overly flippant in my opinion.
But to your point about discussion… I’m happy to discuss why I strongly believe A) this absolutely a correct call by the authorities having jurisdiction and B) why this guy is a complete ass.
A lot of zoning enforcement issues are relevant to people in the car hobby. One too many project cars can get you in a neighbor’s cross hairs.
Even the Hollywood version of David Tracy (he won’t respond to this because typing messes up his manicure) sees the value in some zoning restrictions.
I mean one of the autopian founders rented a house and had no regard for their neighbors. Yeah it was great articles, but after a while it made that person look like a jerk or a small hoarder. The one problem with the staff is a lot of them don’t own property. They rent so they don’t worry about land values.
Achilles Heel and Toe
If you want to avoid proper permitting, you have to talk to the neighbors. They agree to look the other way and the county doesn’t come take a look. If someone from the county happens upon it in a few years, you have been conspicuously using the track for some time and it’s harder for them to come down on you.
If you don’t want to talk to the neighbors, make sure your paperwork is perfect. When they complain, you have all the proper permits and have filed everything with the county. It’s all above board.
Knowing your neighbors and getting them onboard has other benefits, too. Maybe they want to use the track sometimes and they’ll pitch in on maintenance. Maybe they know a guy at the county who can get you that permit without much fuss. Or they notice somebody snooping around, since you obviously have some valuable toys for that track.
Sounds like this guy is probably unpleasant in general, and perhaps wanted to antagonize his neighbors.
Permitting can be a nuisance. It’s also a critical life safety issue in many cases. Going without one can put you, your family and future owners at risk. And doing so knowingly makes you liable if, say, your unpermitted roof work was done without proper “hurricane ties” and your roof gets ripped off in a storm.
For a contractor to do work that requires a permit… without one would be illegal in most cases. Most licensed contractors wouldn’t do it… as it puts their business at risk. And if you use an unlicensed contractor? You don’t have any recourse if they screw up. The “local authority having jurisdiction” is likely to tell you “tough shit” – the work was illegal to begin with.
I absolutely agree that it’s important to get the permit and do it right. Especially if you’re allegedly paying six figures to someone to do it. All I’m saying is that it’s especially dumb to skip the permit and antagonize the neighbors. Personally, I think the ideal scenario is that you talk to the neighbors and make sure to do everything correctly and legally.
And this roofer definitely should have known better (the story makes me wonder if he’s shady in his business, too).
The roofer knew better, which is why the roofer did it the way the did. He knew this wouldn’t have been approved, for any number of reasons.
I suspect that’s likely the case.
And, even then, still do proper permitting. Because your neighbors may all say they’re fine with the idea before its built, but then change their minds after its actually finished and they really see what it’s like. Or, the current neighbors might all be fine with it, but then one of them sells their house to someone new who wasn’t part of the original conversation, doesn’t like it, and decides to do some research to see how it was permitted. Just takes one phone call to flag something illegal
Absolutely. I’m just saying he went the absolute wrong way by skipping both permitting and neighbors. The best is definitely to talk to your neighbors, get the permit, and do it all properly. Second best is airtight permits. Distant third is getting the neighbors in on it and (depending on local laws) hoping to have established use for long enough before the law catches on (if local law allows, this is probably something like 20 years, so you better stay friendly with all the neighbors for a long time).
It also of course depends on what it is – putting up a garage/workshop building on a large wooded property that can’t be seen from the road and can maybe be seen by one neighbor if looking at a specific angle, yeah, maybe you can get away without a permit in a rural area just by checking with that neighbor. Still not a great idea, but the risk of ever getting in trouble over it would likely be extremely low. Or if you have some city historic preservation committee on your case about saving an old facade that doesnt match your new build at all and is going to cost a fortune to stablize during construction, maybe knock it over on a Sunday and say oops. But, yeah, what this guy did without permits is way beyond what I think most people would have assumed was possible
What an inconsiderate asshole. I wouldn’t have waited for him to finish before getting him shut down.
I’ve served on municipal design review boards. Can regulations go too far? Sure. But better that than let any jackass build whatever they want… the community be damned.
Well, if you wait for it to be finished, it costs him more money
He just forgot step 1: 8 foot privacy fence at proper setback from the road.
After that, they can mind their own business. For all they know, he mows his yard alot.
An 8′ privacy fence will require a building permit in almost every jurisdiction. And not without good reason. Wind loads on a structure that high can be severe. Unless designed correctly… it _will_ get knocked over in a strong storm.
Pfft. That never happens in Florida.
Apparently this is MD, FL is where the kid was traveling to practice I guess.
True. But on the scale of pissed off neighbors:
Fence << Race Track
He called pavers who told him this was OK? Were these the ones he was getting quotes from? Why not call an attorney? I know why: he knew what the answer would be and figured he’d play the “ask for forgiveness” game after. It also rides right along the property line where the land is pretty open straight to the neighbors’ houses so the noise travels right to it. This guy sucks.
Yard equipment is obnoxiously loud, so that’s not a good example to argue for this guy, and at least it’s a sign of people keeping up their properties, which helps the neighborhood in terms of property values and they run for much shorter times than this kid would be running the gocart, especially if Achilles (give me a f’n break and I’m part Greek!) is really trying to be the next Verstappen. It’s also a potential air quality issue with tire particulates and exhaust (if gas) and absolutely would negatively impact home values. I wouldn’t buy one of those surrounding houses, especially for how expensive they must be. I’ve had trash neighbors in a much lower class neighborhood (constantly burning shit in the yard, loud parties all night, “landscaping company” truck that never seemed to leave the driveway, various drifters with muffler-less vehicles leaving at 4 AM, dogs left out whining in freezing weather until animal control finally arrives again—even if they never actually did anything—and a young kid who exhibited multiple signs of being molested who suddenly disappeared one day) and my lack of interest in going to prison is why my neighbors now are animals. I can’t imagine paying a big mortgage and have a decent amount of land and still having to deal with noisy trash people imposing their bullshit into my life. Even Canada geese are better than humans and the howl of coyotes is practically music, certainly better than top 15 trashy hits of the ’70s on repeat.
Yeah. I used the same contractor to put up a couple of buildings over the past year, both tines he wanted his crews to start work before I had permits, because he didn’t need to see them to get the work done, in his mind, the county just needed one issued before I could use the building. No, not how that works, I’m not spending money to build a structure only to be told later that it isn’t to code and has to be torn down, permits first
I have to assume he’s done work for other people who were OK with doing things backwards. Did a nice job, and was cheap, but definitely a situation where you have to watch
Far more likely is he called pavers he knew, everyone winked and nodded about the permits, and they just did it for him.
The dad looks like Paul Tracy.
he acts like him too
I don’t care how the neighbors feel or how the father feels. The only thing that matters is what the law is and what regulations apply. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse, so if he violated the zoning or environmental regulations, appropriate actions should be taken. If he did not, the Karen’s need to shut it, and move if they do not like it.
Everyone knows the laws are just what you Google! Talk to the county or city permitting office? Pffftttt.
I’m confused, is he or is he not part of a community/neighborhood/town etc. or is this a bunch of houses outside of town? Was he the property owner first and are there deed restrictions? Does Maryland have any actual restrictions on personal property use on a county level? While it probably would have been more polite to talk to the neighbors and a real estate attorney would have been beneficial, I think it’s ultimately his property and his business if the other stipulations aren’t present.
I have a co-worker that had a ranchette neighborhood with deed restrictions build adjacent to his property he has owned for 15 years with no restrictions and they regularly send him letters and knock on his door for not adhering to their deed restrictions. If this is the same sort of restrictions, I’d say the neighbors should go kick rocks.
It’s not about deed restrictions, it’s about zoning laws, drainage requirements, setbacks, noise regs, etc.
Yea I could see all of that being relevant if they lived in a a zoning restricted area. Short of deed restrictions, you’re pretty clear to do whatever you want on county where I live, so long as you aren’t dumping toxic waste. I’m curious if a) the same applies in Maryland and b) if they actually fall in an area where said zoning/drainage/setback etc. actually apply. If they do then he needs to take the big L. If they don’t, then this is a case of crappy rich neighbors complaining about crappy rich neighbors.
I live in a rural area, but in a county that has pretty strict rules on zoning and land use. Based on this area, I’d expect it is similiar. The property is located between DC and Baltimore hardly a rural backwater. Here’s a link to the County Code if you want to dig in and put yourself to sleep.
https://library.municode.com/md/howard_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=HOCOCO_TIT16PLZOSULADERE
Ah got it, it’s wild how different the laws can be from county to county, state to state and region to region. Thanks for digging that up!
Yeah, living outside a city does not necessarily mean less restrictions. My county actually has more restrictions than some of the muncipalties in it. When I re-built my deck, I had to use larger footings and have an additional inspection than my co-worker did who lived in the city.
That’s interesting and I had no idea
That’s what they are all in the process of figuring out. the county thinks they are in the right to tell him to stop. The owner believes the county is wrong. and it’s going to the courts.
Speaking as a permitting bureaucrat of 16 years for a local utility….
First mistake – asking contractors if a permit is required. Always ask the local permitting agencies, not the contractors because the contractors will say whatever you want to hear and they’re almost always wrong. Permits and the subsequent inspections exist to protect the homeowner from unscrupulous contractors. Then the owner gets screwed with the fine when unpermitted work is caught.
Second, if zoning applies – it doesn’t always – then the government’s job is to protect neighbors while allowing the private use of private land. Setbacks and landscape buffers would probably be enough to satisfy zoning. We walk a delicate line when developers come knocking.
Third, begging forgiveness is a sure way to get me to come down hard on you and hold you to the letter of the law. I will force you to comply will all the rules. If you come to me up front I will help you find loopholes and try to save you money, but we’ll get it done right and we’ll do it together.
As a neighboring resident, I’d say I’m probably fine with it as long as it’s not noisy. I have a neighbor who is addicted to her leaf blower and I can’t keep windows open in nice weather, can’t use the back yard for hours at a time because of the racket. A gas powered race kart would not be welcome, though electric would probably go unnoticed. Just keep it quiet, make it look nice, and maybe give me the occasional lap and we’re good.
Agreed on all accounts. If the contractor thinks they can get in an out (which they were clearly able to do) without permits, they probably will. And that’s assuming they are actually telling the truth about asking the contractor rather than them telling the contractor how it was going to go down. And I assume they pulled it off because the neighbors thought they must be grading for a foundation or driveway or something, but that must have taken a couple of days all in (or they didn’t built it properly, which as you said is the risk if the inspector isn’t holding your contractor accountable).
I’m probably more lenient than most on the noise coming from a go-kart or a dirtbike or something like that (during reasonable hours anyway). Leaf blowers are the worst. The electric ones are better and really only annoying if you are fairly close. But two stroke engines running WOT for a extended periods are going to drive anyone crazy. That said, if someone built a kart track right next to my house and a lot further from their house, I’d probably be belligerent about it. Especially if they didn’t ask me about it and I really enjoyed the views/wildlife/etc outside my window (which, of course isn’t my right as it’s not my property, but it’s reasonable to assume whatever is built there will be a house tucked in the trees not a bunch of pavement)
all the work was probably done without a contract too just “hey i know a guy”
It’s good to know a guy. Being a roofing contractor probably helps you to know some other contractor type folks. Sometimes you want to know a guy because you don’t want to get swindled by some rando. Sometimes you want to know a guy because you don’t want to pull a permit for something….
Random Question. If you hire a contractor but put it in your contract a clause that the contractor is responsible for all necessary permits would that absolve the property owner of any heat for a permit not being issued?
It would probably not. At best it would give the homeowner the right to sue the contractor for damages.
No. As the property owner that is ultimately your responsibility.
Quite common in a contract – and yes the contractor would be the one sued then, and likely by the person who hired him. I’ve done contracts both ways, but most homeowners don’t want the hassle, and since I knew the building code and bylaws far better than any customer, it was much easier for me to get the permits.
We can’t issue our permits to anyone who isn’t licensed with us. That involves a test covering our rules and an annual bond of $10,000 that we can pill if the job goes so badly pear shaped that we have to step in and fix it. I’ve never seen that happen.
So how would a homeowner get a permit to do some work themselves? Example: I built my own 3 car garage with plans I drew up myself (I did purchase manufactured trusses with engineering certification on them). This was some years after I was in the business so no license, bonding etc.
There are certain permits that a homeowner can get from the city with no trouble – decks, garages, simple plumbing repairs, etc. It’s just that with my utility in particular – sewer – we require a licensed contractor. Public health and personal safety are the two primary driving factors there. Your average homeowner doesn’t necessarily realize how dangerous it is to dig a hole 10′ deep, and equipment rental companies will let anyone rent a backhoe.
In my utility, no. The permit can’t be issued to the homeowner in the first place, but if they hire an unlicensed contractor we can fine them and the contractor. I’ve never invoked this, largely because we rarely know the work took place.
The GC (General Contractor) often _is_ the one to pull a permit. With drawings stamped/sealed by the appropriate design professionals. That the owner pays for. How these drawings are obtained varies… and probably matters. If the GC is a qualified “Design/Build” firm, they will have staff legally permitted to do engineered drawings. In other cases, the owner will engage an engineer and/or architect to produce drawings and then get GC’s to bid on them. The homeowner is (probably, I’m not a lawyer) slightly more protected in the first instance – as the second requires the homeowner to know more about what the process is… and more difficult to argue ignorance. Either way… the homeowner will still be stuck with non-complaint and/or illegal work. So it’s still a mess.
This is gotta be somewhere along the lines of: you live in the suburbs you deal with suburban building codes if you don’t want building codes live in the country. If you want to do things on your own property, that’s great then do not complain about other people if they do something to lower your property value there’s a no-win here. They’re probably should’ve been some consideration to how close to the neighbors, but I’m no expert building codes exist for a reason. They’re often written in blood, but this may not have a lot to do with building codes, but it does have to do with zoning and zoning is the big giant elephant in the room of every decision in this country.
Living in the country isn’t enough, I’m almost surrounded by corn fields on 3 sides of my property, but I still had to do a lines & grades survey, a wetlands statement, and, of course, follow setback rules on all sides to put up a garage and a carport. Rules are rules, and counties pay drone operators for aerial inspections
It’s a matter of knowing your jurisdiction and their rules. I live in a rural area but one with fairly extensive zoning and code requirements at the county level. I hear people complaining from both sides “it’s my property I can do what I want” no actually you can’t. “My neighbor can’t do that”, well actually he can.
I’m generally in favor of reasonably building and zoning regulations, and have little sympathy for this guy who thought he could jam a racetrack within a few feet of at least two neighbors. Had he put this in an area well screened, some distance from neighboring properties, and asked permission before hand (both from neighbors and the ahj) then it’s totally different.
The yards in my in town neighborhood are just big enough for a slot car track. However, I’ll bet that we have to put up with a lot more noise from the yard crews that come at random times with their two stroke leaf blowers. Karens are gonna Karen.
Omg the leaf blowers. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of vacation homes. Why do these massive lawns need to be keep immaculate 365 days a year? 🙁
I have one neighbor with a commercial blower and she will blow-dry the lawn after every rain – gives it the ol’ fluff & puff. Drives me up a wall.
This is absolutely fucking wild. Blow drying the lawn. I have quite a bit of experience with old retired dudes who are insanely meticulous about their lawns and I’m confident none of them blow dry the fucking things. Don’t you want the grass watered?!
No doubt that natural rainfall messes with the math for her carefully timed sprinklers.
What’s funny is that big commercial blowers are a lot less annoying to hear than leaf blowers. The 40 or 50HP ones the golf courses use don’t have that ridiculous whine and would finish a residential lawn in seconds.
Unpopular opinion – Track Roofer is a shitty neighbor.
It’s wonderful he wants to do this for his kid, but he chose to do it right on the property line, next to an access road that goes to the neighboring properties. There’s no fencing to keep the carts contained to track or his property. It could easily become a safety issues for neighbors using that access road, or even just being on their own land.
He has plenty of property and could have positioned it well away from anyone and chose not it. I’m wondering if he put it there specifically to antagonize his neighbors.
I believe that the guy probably has the right to build this. However the county also has the right to take it away. There is so many ways this could have been done better but this looks like it was so shittilly that it’s a shit show.
There’s three main complaints: 1)Not in my backyard, Property values, jealousy, haters ect. 2)Noise/nuisance. 3)And eyesore.
The track owner is failing on all three counts. Nothing was done at all to mitigate anyone’s complaint he is just made some garbage and is just “i am in my rights deal with it” Shittyest of neighbors indeed.
There is so many ways this Could have been done better: First I would have put a tall fence around it so that nobody driving by even knows what’s behind it. That will solve most of the Eyesore complaints. Secondly, since this is used for go carts specifically I would Pave a giant rectangle and would install the necessary drainage for a parking lot of that size. You could then put up cones or spray paint lines for the go kart track!
Not only is this beneficial for the go kart driver because now you have nearly infinite track layouts you can do! You also now built a “parking lot that just so happens to be used as a go kart track” This solves so much of the other complaints doing it this way!
If i was on the city council that would be my suggestion to issue a conditional permit. Pave a rectangle, Fence it in, No gas engines that are louder than 93db at 2 meters. and motorsports activities can only be done between the hours of 10am to 5pm. If the owner did it this way in the first place he probably would not have as many issues.
I’d propose the opposite: just drive on the lawn immediately adjacent to the track. Preferably with a two stroke leaf blower strapped to the cart for sound effects.
If you want to do whatever you want, you have to go where there are no people. If you want to live around other people, you’ll have to live by the laws the people of that jurisdiction have passed.
Also, kinda got a Ewing fetish there buddy? I literally heard the theme song the moment I looked at the “house” on Street View.
Having grown up in a rural area, Karting noise pales in comparison to the sounds of whatever the hell your neighbours run.
Between mowers, tractors, implements of husbandry, ATVs, dirt bikes, cars with loud exhausts, guns, fireworks, etc..
I fail to see how that track and the kart(s) on it will impact their lives in any meaningful way. Unless as others mentioned, water drainage ends up being a concern.
Which is fixed by the County ordering him to correct, should it be a problem.
Rural areas are typically “live & let live” areas. It appears this one is not.
Karen obviously does not live next door to you.
No, according to my neighbours, the guy living here before me was the Karen of this area.
Now I’m here and we all get along amazingly. They buy my daughter gifts, I clear the snow from their driveway, and no one cares what the other is doing for hobbies. Even though mine are comparatively the loudest.
Not to throw any shit here. But.
I’ve known close to 100 roofers, at least.
They are all basically a bit strange.
Most with limited social interaction skills.
And the ability to think with much rationality.
The heat and sun will do that to ya fastly.
For this reason I am willing to give him a pass here.
But also wonder if the kart exhaust can be silenced a bit more?
I mean this doesn’t seem worse than people that have motocross or atv trails on their property, at least the electric karts would be quieter. Certainly much better than the teens that would ride dirt bikes and ATVs through neighborhood streets where I grew up. Guy probably needed more land or to be more remote to do this properly, maybe a privacy fence might help resolve the issue.