One of the interesting things about my job is that I get to talk to engineers and product planners and designers and other Important People in the car industry. And, after well over a decade of carefully crafting a persona that many people would call, perhaps derisively, an “idiot” or more charitably, a “drooling simpleton,” I’m often in a place where I can offer suggestions or ideas to these sorts of people, and they’re very often surprisingly willing to listen to me, or at least pretend to.
One of the ideas that I can’t get out of my head and have brought up to these sorts of people on numerous occasions is the concept of battery swapping for electric vehicles. And, incredibly, at least to me, every single Important Person I have spoken with in the EV industry has told me, in pretty clear, straightforward terms, that battery swapping is a Bad Idea.
That may be why I was happy to see that Mitsubishi Fuso is planning a battery-swapping program in Japan, specifically for its line of eCanter commercial trucks. The swapping program is being done in conjunction with Ample, an American-based company that seems focused on modular batteries and battery swapping – two ideas that I have been championing for years.
I really love this approach; I’ve never really been thrilled with the idea of actually owning a battery in an EV– why do I want to have a major structural part of my car be something that is 1. Rapidly becoming outdated tue to developments and 2. Arguably a consumable, even if they do last a nice long while – and I’ve always thought that standardizing battery sizes and connectors could lead to more competition and commoditization of batteries that would lead to less cost to consumers, and that’s whose side I’m on, anyway.
Ample does seem to have this approach, at least based on what I saw on their website. Their partnership with Mitubishi Fuso is focused on the last-mile, in-city trucking and delivering market, and uses the Mistubishi eCanter truck as the platform. These trucks, introduced in 2023, have driving ranges between 62 and 200 miles or so, and EV light-duty trucks like these can take between a few hours and up to 10 hours to recharge using conventional means.
This battery swapping plan would reduce that time to minutes, five minutes if this diagram proves to be prophetic:
Oh, one quick aside about the eCanter; on Mitsubishi-Fuso’s site for the eCanter, the company has a funny way of naming its wheelbase options. Look at this:
So we have Short, Long, and Extra Super Long! That last one feels just a little too exuberant, but I like it. They could have done Extra or Super, but someone there was feeling it enough to say screw it, we’re doing both. Extra Super, mothertruckers!
Okay, back to the battery swapping plan. It seems the battery swapping stations will be built according to Ample’s current designs, and the trucks will be adapted to be compatible with Ample’s modular batteries, with a trial on public roads scheduled for this winter.
I’m excited by this, but also reminded of what all these CEOs and CTOs and engineers have told me over the years: if you tightly integrate a custom battery pack into an EV, everything can be lighter and more efficient; they’re worried about connector life with all the cycles of fluid/electric connection and disconnection; and they just all seem to be down on the ideas of standardizing altogether. But why?
I think while they have valid points – connector life is an issue, of course, and yes, you can design a more efficient overall vehicle with a custom, highly integrated battery pack – a lot of the resistance may come down to a certain sort of pervasive engineering hubris. Everyone thinks they can do it a little better than everyone else, and while they may all be right, maybe it just doesn’t really matter all that much.
Maybe people would rather have EVs that don’t become unsellable paperweights over time in rare and outdated in probably most cases, or would rather adjust how much battery they haul around based on their dynamically-changing needs [Ed Note: The weight change would alter the vehicle’s dynamics, which opens up a whole new can of worms. -DT], or have more options for battery replacement instead of a slightly more efficient, integrated battery design.
I think a last-mile delivery truck platform like these eCanters is an ideal test case for this sort of modular, swappable battery, because it’s a platform that would never really need structural batteries in the first place. Why not make them swappable, especially if the batteries are just big boxes slung between frame rails?
Maybe all those CTOs and engineers and everyone else are right, and I’m a big, sloppy moron with a lot of bad ideas. Fine. I’ve accepted that. But is Mitsubishi-Fuso an idiot, too? Or is it possible there’s some merit to the idea of standardized and swappable batteries? I guess we’ll see how it goes, and then I’ll just wait for all those bigshots in the EV world to send me apologetic fruit baskets. I’ll hold my breath.
I’ve never liked the idea of battery swapping. As a consumer, it’s only a good idea once or twice a year during a road trip (if the infrastructure exists, big if). I wouldn’t sacrifice all the benefits of an integrated battery for this minor advantage.
Fast charging has gotten so good that this isn’t even a trade-off anymore. And I’m deeply uncomfortable with the idea that I might randomly get an older battery with more cycles on it, or one that hasn’t been looked after well. I want to keep my own battery and maintain it the way I want.
This commercial application makes even less sense. All commercial fleets have a common base, and none are used 24/7. This is perfect for charging – without the complexity of allowing for swapping.
If EVs had replaceable batteries, would the Magnuson–Moss Act ensure that third party batteries would be legally permitted ?
Replaceable batteries make a lot of sense, except for the standardization of fast changing technology part, and how batteries really ought to be part of the structure.
So how about liquid batteries. Not hydrogen or hydrocarbons, but just swap out the chemistry?
Redox flow batteries seem to be making progress. That might ultimately be the tech that wins. DARPA is doing some interesting stuff because the army would like to go electric and there are some obvious problems with finding a place to plug in a war.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/flow-battery-2666672335
You’ve cited technical problems with battery swapping, all of which are solveable if the industry wanted to.
What you didn’t list, and is the elephant in the room, is that whatever company wants to have swappable batteries has to put up massive capital investment at the very beginning to purchase all the batteries, then build the swapping stations, and have recharging ability, all before they can generate any revenue. They would also need to partner with an OEM who is willing to use and design around their batteries.
The world of an endless supply of cheap money from venture capital groups to feed a bottomless pit of risky startup companies is over, and with that, any real dream of a company like this suceeding without governmnet backing.
Something I don’t think anyone has brought up: the cost of the swapping station. You need somewhere to store the extra batteries. This battery mini-warehouse needs a massive electrical connection to charge all those batteries. You need to bring in 18 wheelers with forklifts to replace the batteries that get retired. Doable, but obscenely expensive.
Once again, another BEV solution that sounds perfect in the small scale or in specific scenarios (like these trucks) but makes no consideration for the majority of cars on the road using the system.
That seems roughly comparable to the gas station infrastructure really. Those things are all over the place, serviced by 18 wheelers, and tha backend infrastructure is a total mess.
Power requirements are no more than regular BEV chargers, and demand on the grid is less because you don’t have to charge them as quickly and because you can use off peak power that is cheaper. So the power requirements are actually less which sounds like a win.
Replacing the batteries that get retired sounds much easier and more economical than replacing entire cars, or replacing the proprietary power packs. That’s another win.
Also it would be a lot easier to rebuild the batteries since usually it is a a few cells that fail and the rest are fine, and that would lower the cost of the batteries since the cells would be used till their individual end of life.
It seems like all the problems you mentioned are actually advantages.
The batteries in the “warehouse” need to move though. There needs to be some kind of tracking system to move them around automatically. A system that can hold and move, say 500lb batteries? That’s A LOT more complicated than a buried tank where an 18-wheeler hooks a hose to it. I imagine it would be much larger too, to be able to serve the hundreds of cars that one buried tank can.
I’ll concede the electrical connection isn’t a big deal, but probably still more than a gas station. The advantages you listed are vs the standard EV charging we have now. Yeah, it’s certainly better than that. But the upfront cost of a charging station is super low, and we can’t even seem to maintain them.
So it works where the people who own the cars also pay for the swapping station (ie a trucking company) but I don’t see anyone laying out the cash for this to make a business out of it for the public like a gas station.
I like the idea of relatively easily interchangeable batteries. Many of the reasons have nothing to do with whether swapping stations are viable in all situations. It would be nice to have that option on cross-country trips, and charge at home mostly. Having two battery slots and usually leaving one empty, or having a lightweight short-range battery option would be great.
I think making battery swapping the only option without the possibility of home charging would be dumb.
500lbs is lightweight, most EV batteries are in the 4 digits.
And yeah, it’s a replacement for DC fast charging. But I figure you need to have what, 200? miles of range in a battery to make swapping worth it. That’s a heavy battery.
Honestly I don’t think there’s even room in a unibody sedan/crossover for 200 miles of swapple battery.
Energy density needs to get better for this to work, to say nothing of the biggest problem: getting automakers to agree on a standard.
Jason, this is so unrelated to this article. My you tube feed just had me watch the training film for the 1982 Chevy Celebrity. Jason, contain yourself, the tail lights had an amber turn signal, big as all get out! I’m still shivering from the orgasm…………..
Battery degradation happens in two independent ways, through usage and through time. This means that battery packs at a swapping station waiting for someone to come and use it is costing money because it is wearing out just sitting there charged. Money that in the real world will have to be paid for by the customer.
There is the possibility that the extra battery packs could be used for grid storage, but this adds a lot of complexity and more required batteires. There is no longer any benefit from a small grid connection because it needs to be big enough to sell as much power as possible. This all to compete in a very low margin business to make pennies buying at low demand times and selling at high demand times.
So what? Of course the customer is paying, that’s the whole point. Now they are paying to store batteries that they bought, and in this scenario they would be paying to store batteries someone else bought.
Unless the batteries are not degrading in the customer’s car what’s the difference? Actually you are pointing out an advantage, the batteries in storage can be stored in optimal conditions, unlike in a parked car.
It’s irrelevant, but I understand that storing gasoline, fixing leaks etc. is quite a money sink too and there are gas’s stations all over.
When batteries wear out because they are used, that is a good thing because they are providing economic value. When they break down due to time, the cost of the electricity provided over their lifetime becomes higher. For a battery swap to work there have to be lots of extra batteries sitting around ready to go so the electricity supplied is more expensive.
It would be cheaper to have a fast charger paired with stationary batteries that can charge at times when prices are low.
Once again I will leave this here https://www.januselectric.com.au/ They’ve spent the last five years developing and demonstrating an EV conversion & battery swap system for Class 8 prime movers (mostly intrastate stuff) in Australia. They’ve now done over two dozen trucks for various clients and setup seven (?) swap points. Their stats so far are a roughly 16% saving in annual operating costs and a pay back period of as little as eight months. Given the price of diesel can only go up over the next little while in Oz then these numbers will change. The swap setup is based on a subscription model.
Seems legit to me…and I don’t even own any of their shares.
I’ve heard many of these same fixed batteries are better/swappable batteries are bad arguments for cellphones yet my ancient LG V20 still works great and had pretty much all the bells and whistles one could get in fixed battery phones of the day.
“The weight change would alter the vehicle’s dynamics, which opens up a whole new can of worms. -DT”
Maybe that’s why so many pickup truck owners never use those trucks for hauling anything but air.
“ So Why Are So Many Companies Against Battery-Swapping?”
Because battery swapping is dumb. Who pays for the batteries? It is the most expensive part of the vehicle, so if a swapping scheme is implemented you will have to include AT LEAST one other battery in the price…. Maybe more.
It is also the HEAVIEST part of the vehicle… so now you have to design that to be secure in a crash.
What are you talking about ?
It’s like returning a propane tank to Walmart – you pay for it once, then you bring an empty one in and get a full one out, paying just for the content of the tank. Why would you pay for two batteries ?
I wouldn’t expect it to be the whole battery of the vehicle, but making a standardized battery that would account for half of the capacity would be great. It not only guarantees a full control of recycling it, but also opens the way to a whole ecosystem where the batteries would get remaunfactured.
Also opens the way to batteries that would last less, if that makes them less expensive, more efficient, etc. You wouldn’t buy an EV with a battery that lasts only one year, but if it was a replaceable one – what do you care.
And if you can make the whole battery swappable – more power to you. But it doesn’t have to.
And if you don’t trust a swapped battery – just never swap yours.
You pay for two batteries because you need at least two batteries. The one in the car and the one that is part of the pool that you are swapping into the car. That is the WHOLE POINT… that while you are using your battery the other battery is being charged. SOMEBODY has to pay for that second battery.
The batteries are expensive…. It is the most expensive part of an EV! It isn’t a cheap tank.
That tank that Menards sells you costs them $20 and they sell you $20 worth of propane in it. My Bolt has a 66 kw-HR battery that even at Electrify America’s inflated prices would hold $31 worth of electricity. All is a battery that costs thousands of dollars to make swappable.
No way to keep 66kw batteries in stock, indeed. But a half-pack that would be standardized between different brands and models would be fine. Something that adds you another 200 miles or less. Or, have all your packs standardized.
As for keeping the extra batteries – I see the point now. However, if beancounters are good at one thing (if any) – it’s at figuring out how many people will actually swap batteries and how to many to keep in stock.
Add the complete ownership of the control chain, from new to recycle. You don’t have to wait for a vehicle to go to the junkyard to get the battery out, etc.This should offset at least part of the extra production needed.
You don’t need 2 for every car, but you still need more than there are cars. You need something to swap out. Then you need way more in the summer and around holidays when more people take trips. Which leaves the batteries sitting, possibly losing charge, the rest of the time.
The extra propane tanks can just sit there all winter. And on 4th of July they can bring an extra truckload and have 2 guys refill the cabinet in 10 minutes.
Universal batteries sound like a great idea for trucks where totally universal batteries can easily be slung under the chassis. Not so great for the cars that need to squeeze battery into every last square inch of a particular vehicle to get the desired range out of it.
Swapping batteries can also have a great use case for a certain market. For commercial trucks that are likely to spend their entire lifetimes in the same area and will be using commercial accounts to swap on a regular basis things will work great. Get a tired old battery? Who cares, you’ll be swapping it back out by the next shift anyway. For privately owned vehicles that are most likely to use the service while on long-distance road trips like in the US you’re just asking for trouble when high-mileage batteries get swapped into the system. If I take my EV that’s spent the last year slow charging at home a couple of times per week I’d probably be pretty salty if I got home after a road trip to discover that I now have a battery with 500 fast-charge cycles under its belt.
Not an expert but letting someone swap out a damaged battery with no way to keep it from exploding tested or being inserted into a different car or causing a fire while giving some experimental idiot a new battery is a bad idea. In the case of propane tanks on a grill every tank is tested but your example for EVs allows no testing and fires extraordinary
I imagine the swap stations will automatically measure the battery’s health and history before it’s charged, much less be installed. If it doesn’t check out it’s rejected and an order for the delivery of a fresh one put in.
Count me up as someone who sees more problems than benefits with swappable batteries. As others have mentioned already the batteries would need to be heavier and so would the vehicle structure they are mounted to. In addition the chemistries would either need to all be the same or the battery pack itself would need to include all the charging circuitry in addition to any health management requirement. Then the shape would need to be identical and all the connectors would need to be in same place so even if from a packaging perspective it would make sense to have a trapezoidal pack with all cooling lines or electrical connectors in the front, back or sides of the pack, too bad, you would need to adhere to whatever “standard” is agreed to or mandated.
And those are just the engineering challenges. There is also all the business challenges. First, who “owns” the pack? Are you just leasing it from someone and thus if you stop paying whatever the monthly fee is would you no longer have a battery pack? What if you want to change suppliers would you need to drive to one swap location and have the battery removed and then be towed to a different location for a different company’s battery to be reinstalled? If you own it you aren’t saving any money in the price of the car, instead you’re just potentially getting a worse battery the first time you swap it out.
Does a swappable battery mean we’d need to have a single company nationwide so you can swap a battery wherever you are? For example, if you are swapping in the middle of Iowa does that need to be the same company as your home area in LA or Charleston? Or would the battery swap companies be mandated to take anyone else’s battery as a valid swap? That is basically how it works now with propane tanks but those are cheap and really simple. As soon as something costs a little more money or gets slightly complicated I don’t think most rental companies would want to take their competitors equipment back. And if they are forced to take anything brought in the quality of the battery packs would be a race to the bottom. There is no reason to make your equipment nicer than your competitors’ if you have to take their lower quality product as an equivalent trade in. It would be like going to Enterprise renting a Mustang and then coming back a month later with Versa (that you traded the Mustang for at Avis) and expecting them to have to take it.
Also, what sort of quality controls would there be so one company doesn’t start flooding the market with inferior, dangerous, or counterfeit batteries (even unknowingly)? How much does swapping a battery cost compared to just charging the one in the car because it has to be more expensive? Finally do you trust whatever swap system is in place to get all the connections correct and fully seated? Automating something that is new and clean is way different from something that is pushing a decade old or more and covered in grime and rust.
The only benefit I see for private vehicles is during long road trips but mainly or only for the handful of people who drive for 12 hours straight with nary a stop to eat or pee. The only other potential short term benefit I can see being valid are for small to medium commercial operators. They could be in a situation where they don’t want to upgrade their base of operations to have chargers in all parking spots so I could see where they contract with another company to do battery swaps since that could be cheaper than running new high voltage electrical lines all over an existing parking lot. But even then long term I think it makes sense that charging would be cheaper overall.
Unlike most of the comments about swapping out batteries being a bad idea, these are actually things to think about. You describe the conditions for either a monopoly or at least a small number of big vendors, much like the phone carriers or oil companies.
Tesla did something quite similar by setting up a proprietary charging infrastructure for their cars, and until their CEO had the mental equivalent of thermal runaway, it was workinpretty well.
Probably this won’t work without some government regulation concerning liability, standards, and who is required to do what, but government regulations worked out splendidly for Tesla until the idiot CEO fought to get rid of them.
*At a glance*, this seems expensive, risky and sort of minimally profitable, if at all profitable.
This seems more like something brought about by regulation or demand after seeing somewhere else succeed at it.
I think swappable batteries would be great, especially for trucks. They were certainly awesome in cell phones before they screwed us out of that. Unfortunately, manufacturers don’t want to be in the business of producing commodities and all the downward price pressure that comes with that, which is what the battery packs would become in a universally swappable scenario. When your battery pack goes bad, they want to charge you $7K for a replacement that you can’t buy from anyone else.
May I ask since every ICE car has a different battery and EVs are designed by many different companies are simply different batteries that replaceable?
The big advantage I see is without range anxiety, the battery can be half as heavy, so the rest of the car can be half as heavy because smaller motors , less structure to support the battery, smaller brakes, lighter suspension, etc.
Weight begets weight and lightness, begets lightness.
Without some real big advances in battery chemistry swappable batteries is the only way you are going to get small light weight EV’s suitable for long trips. And if there are big advances in battery chemistry, that makes battery swapping all the much easier.
Another advantage of a swappable battery architecture is that it would usher in the age of beater EV’s because without battery degradation to worry about, it’s just a matter of how much shopping cart rash, rust, and other traditional old car rash you’re willing to put up with.
With less percentage of the cost of an EV tied up in the larger battery, manufacturers could compete on price since luxury features would be a higher percentage of expense. Right now, making a decontented EV doesn’t make any sense since the cost of the fancy stuff is a tiny incremental cost.
Swapable batteries would make battery condition as big an issue as tire condition when buying a used car.
Oh, and making used EVs less risky would make new EVs depreciate a lot less, since it’s the battery that seems to be doing most of the depreciating.
So smaller, lighter, cheaper EVs that depreciate less and last longer. Is that actually a problem?
The connection issue is easy to solve by adding one extra sacrificial cable that gets swapped out every 100 connections. Same can be done with fasteners.
I am 100% for battery swapping. The counter arguments can all be designed out.
Design out “who pays for the extra batteries?” for us.
Do you mean at the battery swap station? In theory, zero. You essentially buy a car with zero battery. They give you a credit, or you pay some sort on initial battery cost, similar to how CO2 bottles are done at bars and restaurants. So, in theory, for every car being made, the battery supply network gets +1 battery. I get it, we need a buffer, but that is on the battery stations to cover with their profits. There needs to be an incentive on both sides, for sure.
The batteries are the most expensive part of the car! Someone has to provide the capital for that.
Battery swapping means there needs to be AT LEAST two batteries per car. Depending on the efficiency of the distribution, maybe even more would be needed. Someone has to pay for all those batteries and that someone will be the owners of the cars.
They will pay for them one way or the other. They will either provide the capital up front when they buy the car or they will pay a monthly subscription to participate in the scheme (which is basically FINANCING the purchase). The cost of adding energy to the batteries will always be on top of that.
I fully agree with everything, but I don’t think they need at least 2. Robbing from Peter to pay Paul type a thing. You just need to have enough to make sure the next car gets a full battery, and that depends on how you scale your battery swap station.
“Design out “who pays for the extra batteries?” for us.”
Hertz, Avis, Enterprise, Rent a Wreck,…
If that model makes sense, why haven’t those companies already removed the need for people to buy entire cars then… when you expect them to remove the cost of buying the most expensive part of an EV?
Hertz can barely stay in business the way it is… now you expect them to build out a nationwide EV battery storage, charging and swapping infrastructure that would require maybe a 10 fold increase in the number of locations they have?
“If that model makes sense, why haven’t those companies already removed the need for people to buy entire cars then… when you expect them to remove the cost of buying the most expensive part of an EV?”
They have. Folks who need a car rent one rather than buy/sell one when they fly somewhere for a vacation. It’s my understanding many big city folks don’t own cars but rent them when needed. Which given the state of inner city parking and the likelihood of damage makes sense.
“Hertz can barely stay in business the way it is… ”
The same can be said of Sellantis. And the gas stations that barely eke out a living from the convenience store. I guess making and selling cars and the fuel that powers them are a financial deathtrap too.
“now you expect them to build out a nationwide EV battery storage, charging and swapping infrastructure that would require maybe a 10 fold increase in the number of locations they have?”
As others have pointed out a battery swap station takes up about as much room as an automated car wash which is a LOT less than a rental lot. Old gas stations or gas stations with derelict autowashers can be made into swap stations.
As to power the power demands will be the same or less than those needed for non swappable BEVs locations so either way that’s a problem to be solved.
“ They have. Folks who need a car rent one rather than buy/sell one when they fly somewhere for a vacation. It’s my understanding many big city folks don’t own cars but rent them when needed.”
There are 15 million cars sold in the US annually and about 2.5 million rental cars. There is no mass replacement of car ownership with rentals except in niche situations. Using a model that people use for vehicles when they’re on vacations or while out of town doesn’t make sense for people‘s every day transportation.
The point is they have for people who only need a car temporarily or for whom car ownership is impractical. Battery rental simply follows the same model.
The point here being there are already multiple companies successfully renting out and eventually selling off products that are even more expensive, even more damage prone, even more time consuming and labor intensive to rent out, to refresh and to repair with even higher liability than batteries and have been doing so for a very long time. Yes some tweaks will be needed to modify the model but I think most of the hard stuff was worked out decades ago.
I would expect the peak power demand to be much lower than a conventional BEV charging facility. They can charge the batteries as slowly as as they want and when power is the cheapest.
I agree for all but the most demanding of circumstances.
Why would you expect that? The batteries need to be charged quickly. People can’t show up at the swap only to be told “Sorry, we are busy slow charging all these batteries. Can you come back tomorrow?”
If anything a swap center needs FASTER charging. Or, of course…. More batteries… which gets us back to “who pays for the batteries?”
The customer pays. The customer already pays. Is the net cost more or less to the customer? That depends. If it costs more is the convenience and speed worth more? That depends. Is changing a big high reliability hi stakes part of the car into a fungible wear item worth something to the manufacturer that can lower the upfront cost of a car a competitive advantage? That depends.
Wait follow my thought here. You know they say it takes 10 minutes to change a battery with those sots of systems. And you have to load a truck at a hub location…. so what if you change it out when that truck comes in for a secondary load. In Japan they often ar eloading up for a region and then coming back for a second load. The idea that you get everything in one trip like in the US is not a thing.
I lived in Japan for 10 years and the Kuroneko shipping depo had the same small trucks cycle through more than you would believe.
My colleague in Europe has a NIO, and can’t say enough good things about battery swapping (and the vehicle overall).
Welcome to capitalism, you must be new here. Of course everyone thinks that, and we enjoy a bewildering variety of vehicles to choose from on the market because of it. That’s not to say I don’t support standardization, and I expect more will come as the industry matures, but it’s still the Wild West as far as EV development goes, despite the fact early lithium ion EVs are almost old enough to vote. Anytime standards are mentioned, I just think of the classic XKCD comic: xkcd: Standards
As an engineer, I see their practical points too: the car can’t use the battery pack as part of the chassis if that pack must be easily droppable. That means having a structure to support both the car sans-battery, plus the stand-alone structure of the battery itself, plus all the associated quick-swap mounts (which must be strong enough to withstand a collision, but also handle being made and remade thousands of times, which most bolts aren’t). The weight and packaging of all that are not as much of a concern on large trucks like the Fusos, which still use a typical heavy truck chassis.
Infrastructure is probably the biggest issue. We barely have a passable EV charging network in the US, forget about fully-automated robotic swapping stations. Each one would likely hold six-figure $ worth of battery inventory at a time. Super easy target for vandals/thieves, not to mention maintaining uptime if the system has an error. You can still charge with a typical wall dispenser or DC fast charger, but the swappable battery is only worth it if you can use it. China has a leg up here, though I’m not sure how widely available their pack swapping stations are, or if it’s more of an inner-city thing. Taiwan’s Gogoro system works well because Taiwan is tiny, and much of the population was already used to driving small 2-stroke scooters, so the battery capacity need is much smaller than a car.
I’ve though the Gogoro system could work well in the US if you could dock a small swappable battery into a BEV with a much larger standard pack. Think like the propane tank swapping stations at grocery stores. You aren’t getting a full 100+ KWh battery, but say you get 30miles worth or something to get you home or over to a larger DC fast charger. You could also just keep that swappable battery and use it for a little extra range, or take it out and use it as a portable power brick, like you can with power tool batteries. I’m thinking something that would fit in a trunk.
Of course, the issue there is getting sufficient power density to make it worth it, the ability to cool the battery if people leave it in their trunk all day in Arizona, etc, but keeping the swappable battery small would help lessen the automation complexity if it’s light enough for one person to lift and manage.
“Super easy target for vandals/thieves”
This is also true of rental car lots and those super heavy items are even easier to steal being they are auto mobile. I wonder how rental companies deal with that..
IMO the solution is the same, use a key. Brick the batteries for anything but station use while in the care of the station and unbrick them at the last stage of installation.
True. I guess most rental lots I use at airports have those tire-shredders and heavy barricades. I’m sure all rental cars these days have GPS trackers and remote disablers too.
Lots like that are typically monitored too. I guess I’m assuming battery swap stations typically wouldn’t be, but maybe if we could get petroleum companies on board and have the swap stations as part of gas stations instead of, say, those mini car washes, that might be an addition revenue source for gas stations.
I’ve been surprised that more highway truck-stop stations don’t have extensive DC fast charger islands in addition to the typical fuel islands since DC charging takes longer, and customers are far more likely to use the truck stop restaurants/shops/facilities.
“Lots like that are typically monitored too. I guess I’m assuming battery swap stations typically wouldn’t be, but maybe if we could get petroleum companies on board and have the swap stations as part of gas stations instead of, say, those mini car washes, that might be an addition revenue source for gas stations.”
That would be one way. Another would be to blacklist batteries that are stolen. That battery would be bricked the first time it was plugged into a public charger or internet connected vehicle anywhere in the world. That should kill any resale value and I doubt anyone would buy a sketchy battery for its scrap value or parts.
If the battery were recovered it could be checked out and if it passed all safety tests be removed from the blacklist. Or repurposed in a grid buffer or power wall.
I just think that software bricking the pack isn’t a big deal when you could crack the cases and get the cells out. There’s plenty of money in used Tesla cells, I’m sure there’s a market for shady battery cells, even if it’s just powering an off-grid illicit substance lab…
Only if future battery designs follow current ones and if they do that individual auto grade cells don’t have digital serial numbers that could brick any refurbished battery they were installed into.
Also assumes battery prices stay high enough to bother with the hassle.
Besides why bother stealing heavy ass batteries when there are rims and tires?
Serializing all the parts would basically kill it for me. I have two $3000 printers that are unrepairable because you can’t interchange the parts. I gave away a perfectly fine Volvo s70 because the parts stoped talking to each other.
If I mention John Deere to my neighbors I get an ear charring from otherwise maga conservatives who think capitalism is the bees knees with the exception of John Deere fucking over their customers by copyright abuse.
Anyway, standardization around a physical, electrical, and software battery standard, and what lives inside is free to interpretation.
In my scenario the serial numbers could be queried against an online database like cell phones are now. That could be done individually by hand before installation to minimize hassle or automatically by the pack when installed in the car. If the pack finds blacklist cells it could trigger limp mode, brick itself until the cells were removed or even potentially have the car text a silent alarm to whomever needed with GPS coordinates, camera footage and whatever other court allowed evidence might be available to take down a chop shop.
Why is unattended operation a condition for EV charging? I can’t think of any other business that has that as its only mode. Even laundromats and your busier restrooms have attendants.
“Everybody loves standards, that’s why there are so many of them”
It isn’t, but EV chargers are unattended today, so in doing the business case for a battery swapping station, I’m wondering what sort of price premium EV owners are willing to pay for a battery swap over just a DC fast charge. That premium is going to be much higher if an attendant is required.
I guess if it’s a battery lease model where you don’t own the battery, that labor cost can be rolled into the lease premium, but it’s got to be paid somehow.
” EV chargers are unattended today”
Which is a major problem with vandalism, theft of the cables, and generally not working if it’s not Tesla. Not to mention that a lot of chargers are in weird out-of-the-way locations that some people find scary, and presumably other people equate with “rich people in a deserted out-of-the-way location.
I’m pretty sure that alone kills a lot of EV sales.