Today, we learned that the Ford Maverick is a sales powerhouse. Ford’s compact pickup dethroned the midsize king, the Toyota Tacoma, in February. In fact, sales of the Maverick were healthy enough that the Maverick Hybrid destroyed the Tacoma all on its own. Sure, the Maverick is not an off-road beast, but it is a baby truck that averages 37 mpg combined. That number, paired with an affordable price, makes the Maverick an excellent all-round vehicle. This makes you think, why aren’t more everyday cars hybrids?
This is a thought shared by, and I still love this username, Nsane In The MembraNe:
Oh and I’ll continue to beat this dead horse: hybridize the family haulers. There’s no hybrid Pilot, Palisade, Telluride, Odyssey, Traverse, Forester/Outback/Ascent, et cetera. This class is literally perfect for hybrids because no one drives them hard and literally every family would love to save money on gas.
You shouldn’t have to live with city fuel economy in the teens to drive one of these…and it’s one of the reasons why you can barely get your hands on a hybrid Highlander or Sienna these days. Literally everyone wants hybrids in this class and they’re volume sellers. Make it happen.
It’s an excellent point. Normal family haulers aren’t trying to be sports cars or anything like that, and they’re prime vehicles to have a hybrid option. Does an EV not currently work well for you? Boom, here’s a hybrid that’ll save you tons of money at the pump. Toyota Prius owners have proved that hybrids are more awesome than they’re given credit for.
Of course, while I champion this cause, I would also say that those hybrids should also be serviceable. Part of why older hybrids have such a cult following is because you can repair and upgrade cars like the original Honda Insight without bricking it. Keep that around!
Next, let’s take a look at the Dodge Charger reveal that much of the car internet has been hyped up about today. Along with some stunning good looks, there’s also the Dodge Charger Daytona EV. The spec sheet is pretty cool, but hold up, it weighs how much? I think Stellantis broke StillNotATony:
I really like the way it looks, but…
FIVE THOUSAND, EIGHT HUNDRED AND THIRTY-EIGHT POUNDS?!?
Sweet fancy Moses…
Finally, one more nomination. Last week, Stellantis killed the Wagoneer brand. Now, many enthusiasts would probably say that it should have been that way the whole time. Does anyone say “Wagoneer” without saying “Jeep” in front of it? Anyway, Jeep gave an explanation about it, but the explanation doesn’t say much. Marty Densch pointed out something funny:
“We understood that the story about the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer was not a very fluent story. So we want to give more fluency to that,”
Wow! Taking PR gobbledygook to breathtaking new levels.
To be fair to Jeep, there wasn’t any mention of “disrupting” or “dynamic,” so things haven’t gone that far. Have a great evening, everyone!
As someone who reads this (and the other old site) pretty regularly, and generally considers himself up-to-date on things…
Wagoneer was a brand?
Heh, I was going to make a snarky comment about the fluency quote, but as I had nothing nice to say about it I followed Mom’s advice and said nothing.
I love my (work issued) Corolla hybrid hatch. So much so that I’m considering swapping our Outback for a Highlander Hybrid when the time comes.
“fluency” So I guess that’s a leak?
“How’s your French?”
“My fluency is great, Mercí.”
I asked ChatGPT to add fluency and use the words “dynamic” and “disruptive” to Wagoneer ad copy:
Introducing the Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer – a dynamic and disruptive blend of heritage and innovation. These SUVs redefine luxury, seamlessly merging classic design with cutting-edge features. With commanding exteriors, meticulously crafted interiors, and high-performance engines, they promise a dynamic driving experience. Stay connected with intuitive infotainment and advanced safety features. Welcome to a new era of driving excellence, where every journey becomes a celebration of luxury, style, and performance.
I am 100% ok with AI taking over BS marketing ad copy.
Hybrids really are the way to go. Anyone that doubts this should read up on 1-6-90. Hybrids can be priced on par with their ICE only counterparts, bring significant efficiency gains and don’t require new infrastructure.
Hybridize the haulers is the right idea, but it’s still a hard sell when the price is so high versus a used normal-ICE version.
I investigated this recently and it still seems like the break-even point on gas savings versus purchase (and insurance) price is too far for it to be realistic.
The Maverick (originally) started as a hybrid with an MSRP below $20,000 before delivery. It can be done.
It’s also not all about the money. A lot of us are willing to pay a bit more if it means reducing our carbon footprint.
I’d also say the added torque and drivability would be a plus as well.
At one point, I decided that a lot of crossover mileage increases were due to the elimination of the spare tire. Hauling around less weight saves gas. So when we sell something like these beasts………
More like the ever increasing march towards smaller turbo engines with a bazillion gear transmissions. Honda’s kept the same 3.5 V6, albeit with more gear ratios, for quite some time and that’s one of the reasons fuel economy lags for them in this segment.
As a pilot driver it’s hard to believe that everyone is leaving the hybrid 3 row space to toyota. Nothing can compete with the highlander/grand highlander for mpgs, they get 10+ mpg better than a pilot. I’m too cheap for new cars but if I was buying new the short list would be grand highlander hybrid, ev9 or tesla y.
If Honda sold a hybrid Pilot or Passport we would literally go buy one tomorrow. The current Pilot is class leading in basically every way but fuel economy, where it unfortunately sucks. Subaru has no hybrid haulers. The American manufacturers have no hybrid haulers.
Hyundai/Kia have hybrids of the Santa Fe/Sorento but not the Palluride twins…and unfortunately their hybrids aren’t very efficient. They’re a better option than pure ICE, but they get low to mid 30s MPG wise which is significantly less than the Japanese hybrids (probably because it’s newer technology for them and their ICE engines are inefficient by modern standards).
There just isn’t much out there other than the Sienna, Pacifica, and Highlander variants. And unfortunately Toyota and their scummy dealerships know this. Every hybrid Highlander or Grand Highlander in our area sells for over MSRP. Hell most of the RAV4s and Venzas do too.
Any other company could release a hybrid hauler and print money right now. It’s baffling to me that more don’t exist.
The worst thing with the Santa Fe and Sorento is that they just can’t tow anything either – they are rated to 1500kgs, whereas a Highlander is rated to 2000, which gives you enough breathing space to tow a reasonable boat or caravan without worrying about being overweight.
Mazda CX-90 has a PHEV version, and has 3 rows. It’s very well-reviewed so far.
Volvo also has the well-regarded XC90 Recharge (previously known as the XC90 T8), which is also good. Admittedly a higher price bracket than Toyota, but it’s an established player.
It’s kind of ridiculous to me that, in 2024, automakers are still launching new ICE models that aren’t hybrids, even as an option. Looking at you, Stellantis
I’m considering my next car as an ICE with a small turbo (Civic Si?). The gas mileage is quite good for an ICE, and I’m not fond of the touchy brakes on our hybrids, present and past.
But, there is a Civic Hybrid coming out for 2025, so Honda is providing the option
I will wait long-enough to drive it. We didn’t buy the Accord hybrid as our family travel car, but it was my favorite hybrid driving experience.
My local Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram dealer sends a crap ton of spam mail (the paper kind) trying to get me to buy a new vehicle from them. Every month for the last six months, I’ve gotten the same one, touting how low my monthly payment can be on a “Jeep Wagoneer or Jeep Grand Wagoneer”. I always chuckled at that, though I guess when I get the same flier in the mail next week, the dealership will actually be correct.
Hybridize. The. Haulers.
I got a Dodge Charger Daytona EV it’s as a big as a whale.
Its battery pack weight is a giant
Fail.
I got me a Charger, it seats about….2
So hurry up, we’ve got 3 tons to move
I think “Tin roof, rusted” works here without alteration.
News flash – batteries are heavy: more battery, more heavy.
I honestly think Hybrid/PHEV is the current technology sweet spot for most users. I daily a 2014 Camry hybrid that still returns overall stellar mileage. A bit bigger battery with home charge and I could run local errands on no gas at all but not be limited in range on the highway. 1000% agree that most CUV/SUV should be at least mild hybrid. The fuel mileage on my 2005 Acura MDX is criminal.
Non-plug-in hybrids can get away with pretty minimal batteries due to how condensed Lithium power packaging has become. The Maverick’s battery (which it shares with the Escape) is only a svelte ~60 pounds.
My wife drives a 2005 Acura MDX. That the MDX is worse on gas than my Suburban is simply ludicrous. I think she averages 13-15mpg. A plug-in hybrid version would really make a big difference for her usage case, which is a lot of local hard city miles.
15-16 MPG in city with our older Santa Fe has me counting down the days till my children leave the house and I can buy something small and efficient. It’s close enough that buying a new large family hauler is just not worth it.
However, the new Honda Prelude will definitely be out by then….. *ponders*
PHEVs are great, but they do take a greater weight and complexity penalty compared to regular hybrids. The larger battery, extra charging/power management, and larger drive units add up quickly, taking up space and weight. The battery alone might need to increase 3-5x in capacity versus a regular hybrid to make a PHEV worth it.
“Here at Stellantis, we strive to energize synergies in a way that actualizes our customer frequencies and capitalizes us making a shitload of money.”
I understood the first part but I got lost at the end. Did you mean that they are optimizing the currency environment?
“Optimizing the currency environment of our wallet.”
“We want to give more fluency to that” = “we did a cr*ppy job explaining what a Wagoneer is and why anyone under 40 should care.”
Yes. It was a JEEP Wagoneer for what, 30 years?
I just imagine this as the whole Mazda Speed thing. So…
Wagoneer Jeep Wagoneer?
Wagoneer Jeep Grand Wagoneer Series III?
I read out of order sometimes, and I thought “five thousand, eight hundred, thirty eight pounds” was the cost of an options package across the pond. Seriously.
As a vehicle weight, that is abysmal. That’s more than my single cab longbed f-150. That’s more than my truck, my body, and 600 (currency OR weight) pounds in the bed. Jesus.
It’s more than my extended cab 4WD Silverado with the V8. It’s more than a current Ford Expedition. It’s more than the lighter spec EV9 three-row electric SUV. It’s a ridiculous weight.
Im eagerly awaiting the numbers for the ICE variants. I have a feeling I’ll still be in for a shock but it’s not going to be SIX THOUSAND POUNDS…slash I really have no idea why the EVs are coming first. I don’t really understand who they’re for/who will buy them.
Their usual L platform customer has no interest in electrification…and anyone who might have an interest for performance reasons will immediately be out because of the weight. I foresee the EVs rotting on lots and the straight 6 variants selling like hot cakes.
A 5 door, 400+ horsepower, rear wheel biased AWD sports sedan is a very, very interesting offering on paper. Nothing like that exists outside of the luxury brands anymore. If it undercuts them on price they may have some new and different customers on their hands.
All of this. And the ability to go RWD-only when desired is a great feature. It’s pretty interesting, and I’m certainly going to be watching for announcements of price, efficiency, and options.
The EV should have gone more aero- and efficiency-focused to get the range out of a lighter battery and maybe gone 800V architecture for faster charging (and could have gone a little lower range without as much complaint). The “cram more battery” method isn’t great for this use case (or any, but you can get by with it on an SUV or something).
It’ll come down to price and efficiency for me too. I’ve been eyeing a luxury performance sedan as my next car for a while but find the idea of paying $60,000+ to be a tough pill to swallow. Do I think the Charger Six Pack will be a BMW lite?
Probably not, but a 420 horsepower RWD based liftback is a mighty enticing proposition. It’s also something the wife would approve due to the practicality aspect. If the fuel economy isn’t total ass (not expecting Prius shit here, but it needs to be better than the old Hemi) and I can get a nicely equipped one for a similar price to a Stinger GT it’ll be at the top of my list next go around.
Those are big ifs though, and early returns on the Hurricanes have been horrendous. They’re having significant issues and delivering terrible mileage. Some of it is probably brand new engine stuff that’ll be sorted out more by the time the ICE Charger hits the market, but we’ll see.
Either the battery pack is absolutely massive or Dodge is welding in random chunks of iron like a Soviet factory that measured production by weight.
Would we REALLY be surprised if Dodge did this?
They kind of are… The artificial NVH has to come from somewhere!
To make their vehicles lighter, they need to design them like the Rivan pickup truck.
No, WAIT! I just saw one of those! That rear aluminum quarter panel really does go all the way over the rear window, and around the doors to end at the top of the A-pillar. It’s elegant as hell, but really will make repairs expensive! (As previously reported.)
That’s a Unibody for ya