Today I found myself at the Lexus dealership for my fiancee’s regular checkup of her 2017 RX350. She seems to enjoy going to this dealership, and since I know there’s (resale) value in her continuing to have that car serviced there, I don’t protest. But here’s the thing: Sometimes the dealership suggests expensive repairs that I can do myself for cheap. But I’m starting to get the impression that my fiancee, Elise (not her real name) would rather just have the dealer do it, especially since my last few repairs haven’t quite gone…swimmingly. Here, allow me to voice a few excuses.
For the longest time, I’ve been doing my own work on my cars. It’s saved me bundles, and — at least when it’s relatively easy stuff like brakes and wipers and batteries — I quite enjoy the wrenching. But now I’m no longer dealing with just my own cars; my fiancee is bringing a Lexus into the family. Specifically, an RX350. And her usual practice of taking it to the dealership and having them fix what needs fixing is something that bothers me deeply.
I’ve mentioned this before. The amount of money you can save fixing a car yourself instead of having the dealership do it is insane. A few months ago, we got this quote from the dealership:
$1,120.78 plus tax, so about $1,200 all-in for a basic brake job?! No way. I ordered up the best parts I could find from Advance Auto Parts:
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That only cost me about $400, saving us $800 in total — a total no-brainer Also a no-brainer was the 12-volt battery replacement; I bought a new black brick from Costco and installed it. That seems to have worked well. Then I swapped out the wipers, front and rear. I bought these highly-rated wipers from Amazon:
This all seems well and good. I’m saving us money, helping us get on a path towards prosperity! But lately, I’ve hit a bit of a snag. I think Elise (not her real name) has lost a bit of faith in my wrenching skills, and through no fault of my own! OK, maybe it is my fault to some degree, as I’m reading forum posts now from Toyota folks who say: Just buy OEM parts.
In the Jeep world, you can buy a cheap Autozone part and it’ll almost certainly be no problem I’ve founded after 15 years of wrenching on Jeeps. But it seems that there is a significantly higher percentage of Toyota owners who go OEM. I think, based on my rather limited examples, I’m starting to understand why now. When it came time to replace Elise’s brakes, I went to Advance Auto and got its top-of-the-line Carquest Platinum/Premium pads and rotors. I’ve never had any issues with these, and installing them was a breeze. All the brackets and holes in the rotors and brake pad backing plates fit exactly how they should. I was diligent with installation, I cleaned the hub to make sure it was flat, I used grease where it made sense, and on and on. It was a basic brake job.
And yet, a mere 4,000 miles later the rotors seem to be trashed. There’s tons of brake dust building up on the wheels, and when I tap the brakes at 70 mph, the steering wheel shudders. The windshield wipers, too, are terrible, leaving streak marks all over the glass. My two most obvious repairs had failed, and I think Elise wants to go back to just having the dealer do the job. If I were her, I would, too.
So I’m trying to figure out how to salvage this, because I do think doing our own brake and suspension work is going to save us a bundle long-term. Right now I’m in a weird spot, because the dealership is telling us “hey, this is wrong with your car,” Elise asks me for my opinion, and I naturally always say “I got this.” And it feels like there’s some doubt there from her and some judgement from the dealer. And I’m just there…sitting in the dealership feeling supremely awkward.
Sot I need to step it up; this ain’t some old Jeep I’m dealing with, I’m working on a modern Lexus that needs to be extremely safe and comfortable, and that needs to pass the scrutiny of a dealership that has incentive to instill a bit of doubt in Elise’s mind about my wrenching skills. I just need to remind myself how much I’m saving on labor as I fork over Benjamins to the Toyota parts counter.
And that’s not even addressing another pressing issue, which is: At what point do I just let a shop work on our cars? Time is becoming harder and harder to come by, and while I still am fundamentally opposed to shelling out 1200 bucks on some basic brake work, it’s possible I’ll have to change my mind on that someday as I run out of moments left to spare. I’m no longer a single man with 14 cars and nothing but time.
And then there’s the fact that her dealership does 10,000 miles oil-change intervals, something that may check out scientifically, but that I think is probably a bad idea for someone who does daily short commutes like Elise does. Do I just do the oil changes myself even though she wants to service her car at the dealer and even though it’d look good on a Carfax seeing it was regularly dealer-serviced. It’s entirely up to her, of course, but it’s hard for me — a diehard wrencher — to bite my tongue in the face of a $1,200 bill for some disks and pads.Yikes!
This story reads like an allegory for a man unable to meet the needs of their partner and having to pay another…
This comment reads like insecurity
There are a few things that you need to do differently to make this work
The parts you used were cheap Chinese made junk. That was the mistake. They are fine for an old beater but not a new Lexus.
Can she afford the repairs? If she can just let her have it dealer serviced.
Agree – Advanced Auto -sourced parts would not be my go-to. OEM or the Toyota equivalent of FCPEuro if such a thing exists.
As you get older (and not even very old) you’ll realize that your time is incredibly valuable. Being able to drop your car off for trusted maintenance and use that time for something more valuable to your relationship or life is a great luxury.
My rule is use the dealership for cars under warranty and then find the best independent you can. Quite often these are highly skilled former dealer master mechanics who’ve gone out on their own. They take great pride in their work and I can trust them. Generally they’re cheaper than a dealer but you’re paying for their skill and specific knowledge about your model car.
BTW, factory wiper inserts for Japanese cars are generally excellent and easy to change and there’s no reason to change out wiper blades unless they’re damaged. People don’t replace brake calipers because their pads are worn, and they don’t replace wheels when they need tires. My two cars are currently a combined 32 years old and they’re on their original wiper blades with just new inserts as required.
Yes! My 2016 Mazda6 just has factory blades. I replace the rubber inserts when they become degraded and the inserts themselves are $20-ish with shipping. I’ve only replaced them twice in the 9 years I’ve had the car.
Have you gotten used to typing “fiancée” yet?
Guess I’m lucky as my wife supports my wrenching habit. I use oe equivalent parts and have never had a problem with them. Unless a problem it beyond my ability, tools or shop I refuse to bring the car into either the dealer or my local shop. Both have misdiagnosed or not done or did the requested work poorly.
You’re not only buying terrible parts, but they’re also not much cheaper than good parts (that’s even before you have to keep replacing them many times over because they’re terrible).
Buy StopTech rotors and ceramic pads – they’re perfect for a normal daily driver (TireRack has both), and Michelin or RainX wipers from Walmart that are cheaper than the garbage you bought from Amazon.
Advance/Autozone are only to be used in an emergency, why else would you buy subpar parts at inflated prices??
Sorry but you bought crappy no name wipers and weren’t expecting them to be crap? Unfortunately the Carquest branded parts have not been high quality for several years. So yeah another self inflicted wound.
I keep seeing “advertisement” throughout this piece. What exactly are you shilling for? Lexus? Autozone? Advance Auto Parts? Bad wipers on Amazon? A little puzzled.
I would say the advertisement is actually for premarital counseling. Considered it? Now that is truly money well spent. I know a couple good therapists and clinical psychologists in your neighborhood. All with best wishes . . .
Tough one. I’d compromise and see if you can convince her to take it to an indy mechanic. No responsibility for the repair, and at least some money saved.
Yeah, get the OEM shit, but check Internet prices first. Parts selection, not performance was your failure point. That’s an easy one to not repeat.
On the marriage front, it’s both entirely fair for you to want be fiscally efficient and for ‘Elise’ to want to minimize worry and inconvenience at nearly any cost. Any good marriage is full of constant compromises. Hopefully she gives you more chances to save cash with your skills and you adjust your quality standards.
BTW, the money vs worry conundrum will almost positively be a recurring theme in your pending nuptials. Get used to it my friend.
Finally, after 58 years of managing to avoid it, I finally did my first timing belt this weekend. Luckily it went well. I too did it to save the cash and know it was done right because I bought good parts.
Wow, impressive! What car did you swap the timing belt on?
Something unreliable, naturally.
Our 2015 Golf TDI Wagon. Really not a terrible job.
Mercedes, if you ever have to do one of your TDIs, I now own the requisite crank/cam/fuel pump locking pin kit.
You can spend time with Elise instead of wrenching. That’s why she tells you the dealer fixing stuff.
And a replacement of wipers doesn’t classify as wrenching.
The deal is, though, based on the way he described the repair, it may actually take less time to do these brakes yourself than bring the car to the dealer. Especially if he buys the parts online from Rock Auto or a Toyota dealer and doesn’t have to do the parts store trip. And now hat he has done them once, it should be even quicker. Although, my G37x currently has one rear-side with nice, new brakes and one with the factory rotors because on the left side I just couldn’t get the caliper bracket bolts off – back to Harbor Freight for a stubby impact wrench, and I am also ordering some new hardware for the suspension arm that is in the way of the lower caliper bolt.
Oh man, this hits close to home. Wife has a 2017 Mazda CX-9 with an extended warranty (which just expired) and last year we started hearing a clunking noise either in the suspension or somewhere under the hood, mostly under acceleration from a stop but sometimes when going over bumps. I took a quick look underneath and couldn’t see anything wrong, so I told her to go ahead and take it to the dealer because it’s under warranty.
Dealer reported that the noise was due the aftermarket brakes on the car. I had installed the brake pads and rotors myself, but they were genuine Mazda parts. I later learned they have a basic replacement line in addition to the real OEM, and it was the former I installed. Anyway, they said they can do a brake job for us to the tune of $900, since brakes are wear items and not covered under warranty. Or, I can decline the repair but they’d charge a $150 (1 hr) diagnostic fee.
No way. First, I installed the brakes about 2 years prior, so why would the problem just start now (pads and rotors looked fine)? Second, the noise did not sound like brakes at all to me. Third, if we do need new brakes, I can easily perform the labor.
At that point my wife had started to lose faith in my work and was thinking about just paying the dealer. To be fair, on the logical side of things it means the dealer would be responsible if the brakes *didn’t* fix the problem but we’d still have to pay.
This still rubbed me the wrong way. So we paid the diag fee, took the car back, and I took the brakes apart to inspect them. Saw nothing wrong, but still cleaned and greased everything well, put it back together, and noticed no change in the clunking noise whatsoever. After driving it for a while I was finally able to repetitively create the noise purely by throttle on/off, making me think it was an engine mount or something.
At that point I took it back to the dealer and got a tech to actually ride with me when I was creating the clunking noise. He agreed it likely wasn’t the brakes and they took the car back in. After having it for a week, they said they couldn’t replicate the problem. By that point I was pretty pissed, but we had to get our car back. Once we got it, by some miracle the noise was completely gone!
Tinfoil hat on, I think the dealer found the problem was somewhere under the car and fixed it on the down low just to avoid being called out for their misdiagnosis. While I was annoyed I still had to pay the $150 diag fee, I called it a tie since at the end of the day the noise was fixed, and more importantly, my wife’s faith in my abilities and judgement was restored. Well, at least about cars.
Wow, so you definitely feel my pain.
Similar thing happened to me recently with our recently acquired 2018 Kia Sedona. A/C stops blowing cold when idling in a school pickup line, drive-thru, heavy traffic, etc. and only cools back down when driving and back up to speed.
It’s thankfully under CarMax’s warranty, so they had to pay for anything wrong. Dealership did everything they could, including letting the van idle for 30+ minutes with the air on and telling us it “continued to blow cold air.” They said it was a “few ounces” low on refrigerant, but that’s all. It has since been refilled and had leak-detection dye added. I’m supposed to bring it back after 1,000 miles of driving to see if they can spot a leaky area.
It seems as though “cannot replicate customer concern” is the go-to.
Of all things I don’t cheap out on is windshield wipers.. granted it never rains in LA?
Does Lexus have replaceable inserts? Replacing the inserts is usually a lot cheaper.
Also claybar your windscreen.. uneven layer of dirt on the glass do affect the performance of the wipers.
There must be a Toyota / Lexus specialist in LA.
I find my extended family’s Japanese cars (Subaru and Infiniti) have a tendency to warp the rotors, especially if they go on highway speeds and need to brake etc.
But you know the answer could be a Miata.. get her a Miata as a spare car. Problem semi solved?
My BMW was at the dealer recently for some recall work, and based on that experience I can totally see why people would choose to have their cars serviced there. Because I was getting recall items taken care of my bill was zero, but they did find one other thing that needs to get taken care of and want to change me $1500 to repair a small gasket leak. I won’t do it myself, but am happy to take it to my indy mechanic to get the job done for $800.
David, letting this go willingly and with grace will do wonders for your relationship.
Welcome to marriage! I’m a let’s say adventurous person. And when me and my better half met that made me interesting. As we got older, and firmly more middle class. My proclivity for “seeing what happens”, and overall willingness to put my self in a situation that is long, possibly painful and might not work are less appreciated. When we were young, it was necessary, and being stuck on side freeway cause you didn’t tighten something quite to spec was a good story. When you’re staring down the barrel of the ever approaching fourth birthday and have enough money to get you out of any jam south of multiple felonies. That’s just subjecting your spouse to your willing to swan dive into the abyss with her car. And she’s going to be wanting to embark for whatever she does on Saturday. And your ass to pavement on the driveway swapping brakes in every corner for the second time this fiscal quarter. And she’s thinking about the next sixty years of your grease stained Levi’s piling up in the corner without any interaction with you from sun up to sun down, spouses tend to not be please. Now, I’m not saying you got to trade in the wrenches for a life of chasing the handicap dragon on golf course. I’ve found being adventurous is now a me thing, and the less I subject my loved ones to my casual willingness to explore human insanity, the better. And if anything, avoiding being without paddle upwards shits creek everyday that ends with y probably extended my time on earth.
I used to “warp” rotors very quickly in one particular car, so after some advice from a track guy, I tried rotors that were cryo treated and they braked smooth down to the point where they were thin enough that the shadows of the vents could be seen in the surface. I also used aggressive street pads. They weren’t cheap, but lasting 3 times as long made them barely more expensive and worth it for the performance.
I’m surprised that ceramic pads would dust a lot. All the ones I’ve had (OEM) dust so little as to be a negligible problem. But, none of that matters: it’s her car, let her bring it in. It’s worth the peace of mind and your free/”free” time. You don’t want to assume responsibility for anything that might happen that could possibly seem like it was your mistake in repairing and maybe she’d rather have you relaxing or doing something else besides working on her car. Speaking as someone who hates people doing anything for them, she might also prefer to bring it in and pay someone for that reason. In the end, whatever her reasons, you’re lucky—I’ve had exes call me to fix their cars and I suspect it was one of the reasons they ever put up with me in the first place.
I still do stuff like brakes myself because I feel a bit like a failure to bring a car in for something like that (and I’m cheap, but it’s more the psychological thing), but anything that I can’t do in a few hours or is something I’ll likely feel for days after, I have someone else do now and I’ve gotten over feeling like I’ve failed or gone soft (even if I have gotten softer). Oil changes, though, I don’t trust anyone to do it and I prefer to having that little bit more of an idea of how the engine’s doing and it’ll take a lot to get me to give that one up.
I usually only get OE or OEM for BMW parts, and actually found a local dealer that sells most of the consumable parts as cheap as i could find online. Go OEM for the Lexus, and do the same with your i3. With some BMW’s and some parts like brake pads, you won’t even be able to get parts that fit unless you go to the dealer. FCP and Autohauz AZ won’t send the correct parts either.
With the correct parts, the repairs will be fine.
We take our subies to the dealership for the oil changes but everything else we do ourselves. Last time the wife was there they offered to change her cabin air filter for $60 or so. We stopped by Walmart on the way home and picked up a filter for $10 and she replaced it herself in just a few minutes. So, oil change is fine at the dealer but everything else has a ridiculous markup.
Unforced Error! No one that has been in a healthy relationship is going to take your side on this.
I will!
Wrenching is who David IS! Wrenching is also part of running an automotive website! Who wants to read about some guy who dumps his car problems on some dealer flunky?
Only hands on wrenching yields the insights Autopians demand! Only by wrenching can the engineering and packaging shortcomings of auto manufacturers be exposed. David needs to wrench on a bit of everything INCLUDING nice, new luxury vehicles. Fixing complicated cars to satisfy a demanding customer is more fodder for us.
Plus he has access to the Galpin garage and probably advice from its service techs ferchrissake. If he can’t do it how are we supposed to?
Also somebody needs to stand up to auto manufacturers, to shame them for cranking out unfixable/unservicable by mortals crap and to fight for right to repair. Such arguments wring hollow from someone who takes cars to a dealer for even basic maintainence.
I don’t disagree with your points. However, Her car, Her money, She enjoys the pampered experience like a spa, you want to deprive her of that? Plus he fumbled by using inferior parts that wore prematurely, leaving her feeling uncomfortable about him working on her car. Not a good idea to make your fiance’e uncomfortable, just let her know her happiness is more important to you than any minor ego bruising he feels.
That depends on how much of a financial strain that pampering imposes. If its the equivalent of a Starbucks latte every morning then whatever but if its that or making rent, well better David turns a wrench than the Aztec becomes their mailing address.
Besides its not like dealer techs never make mistakes.
David,
As one married man to a (soon to be another): let her have this one.
I’ll wrench on my Jeep and to a much lesser extent, my daily driver, but the wife’s (which is a lease)? If she asks me, I’ll do an oil change or wipers, otherwise she can take it where she wants. Sure it may be more expensive, but if anything goes even the slightest bit wrong, it’s not on me (and I can look like the hero when I do fix it!).
There are certain hills to die on, this is not one of them! lol!
This is the correct take. Been married 15 years. The wife’s daily is not for wrenching. Focus on getting your fleet in line, she’ll handle her business as she sees fit.
I don’t hardly wrench on my daily either, the Jeep is for wrenching on. If it’s down for a bit while I figure something out, no big deal.
There is a reason people always say happy wife, happy life. Pick your battles, the ones that truly matter.
I’ve never been with a girl who likes or appreciates a cheap bastard, I am too to a certain degree. It’s probably a primal subconscious thing, future babies, security, etc.
Take it for what it is, but I’m at 28 yrs married, going strong.
Do the basic repairs yourself but source OEM parts online. Not too hard to do. Also, you can change the oil at 5k miles in between the dealer services, I do 5k intervals max cause we also do lots of short trips and don’t put on a ton of miles so 10k is just too long. But honestly a Toyo/Lexus is one of the few cars that would probably be just fine on a 10k interval anyway, especially if you aren’t worried about trying to hit 200-300k miles on it before it’s gonna get traded in/sold.
This is more or less me – I always buy OEM Ford or Motorcraft where I can, b/c the quality is worth the price premium. And I’m willing to plan things out to give the parts time to arrive.
Yeah, aftermarket parts quality has overall been going downhill for a while. OEM or oem supplier built parts are the way to go.
You learned your lesson. Let her have this, it will be better for you both in the end.
you can be right, or you can be happy.
pick one
If you’re a married man, you are never right anyway!