The tail end of last year was a rough one, for me. There was that aortic dissection, of course, with its associated pants-crappings and hospital stays, but right before that I smacked my friendly little Nissan Pao into a deer, yet again. Clearly, Odocoileus virginianus and I are sworn adversaries, seeing as how it was right around a year ago that I just got the car back after smacking another stupid deer, even harder.
I’m so tired of crashing my car into hundreds of pounds of idiotic venison, and I’m pretty sure the deer aren’t so crazy about this arrangement, either. So why do we keep doing this bloodthirsty dance?
And, even more baffling, why did my insurance company declare the car a total loss? I saw this notice in my insurance app and felt an unpleasant pang in my stomach:
Total loss. They’re just such grim-sounding words! It sounds so final, like an HR-talk way to talk about something getting annihilated. I’ll leave out what company I use, because I’m not here to shame anyone, as I think this is a pretty industry-wide sort of practice. In fact, I know it is, since we had an insurance insider write up a story for us that pretty much said just that: they’re in the business of totaling cars.
Also, what the hell is that “Gene Nissan” thing? Who’s Gene? Is that the founder of Nissan that has been kept secret all these years? Gene “The Machine” Nissan?
What makes all of this so baffling to me is just how un-totaled the Pao actually is. In fact, this deer-strike incident resulted in much less damage than the last time, and the insurance company didn’t total the car then, despite being so much worse off, with actual mechanical damage in addition to the bodywork. Look, here’s the front end of the Pao after both deer-smackings, the first one in 2021, and then the recent one, late last year:
As you can see, the 2021 impact was a lot worse, with damage to the hood, grille, foglamp, headlight, and the radiator behind all that. This was not considered a total loss. This current situation only involves the headlight, hood, fender, and the headlight bracket inside needs to be bent back. It’s significantly less severe. I can source a headlight pretty cheaply online, and I have a body guy here in town that can do the fiberglass work on the hood and the tiny amount needed on the fender. There’s no need to order new parts.
I took pictures of the damage and uploaded them into the app, thinking that would be a starting point, and some insurance claims adjuster would reach out and perhaps inspect the car in person, if needed. I was very wrong.
Also, right after the wreck, all of this got sort of put on hold because, well, that’s when my chest exploded and I had to stay in the hospital for a while, and couldn’t really follow up on any of this. But their adjusters kept busy, and came up with an estimate that, as a work of fiction, is pretty astounding:
Look at all that! The total is $8,317.84! What? How did they get there – that’s significantly more than last time! Looking in more detail at this estimate, though, it starts to make sense, because the adjusters seem determined to replace everything. They’re replacing things that weren’t even damaged: bumper bar, bumper overrider, foglamp, grille, radiator support, mount panel. Oh, and there’s even at least one part there I’m not sure exists – the headlight bucket should be part of the headlight assembly, not separate?
They also seem to be assigning labor for work on the door, which is undamaged, and of course there’s no consideration given to the repair of any parts like the hood or fender, just a wholesale replacement.
I’m just baffled by this whole thing. And I tried calling my insurance company to say, hey, there’s really no need to make this a total loss, the damage just isn’t that bad, but because this has already been registered with the North Carolina Insurance Something Agency Department Something Something Bureau, there’s no way to change or amend or cancel or anything. It’s done. The Rubicon has been crossed, someone said alea iacta est, and that’s that.
Now, this may not even be bad for me; they’ll offer me some sort of payout if I want to get rid of the car, which could be decent money, or, should I decide to keep it (and I will, I’m very attached to my Pao) and fix it, I’ll get some other amount, which will very likely be a good bit more than just a more realistic assessment of the repairs would have been. Whatever this costs to fix, it’s not going to be over eight grand, that I’m sure of. So I’m not sure this is even beneficial for the insurance company?
In short, I fundamentally don’t understand how insurance companies work, I think. I’m going to hope the payout will be enough for me to just fix this on my own, and then move on with my life, preparing for that next deer I suppose I’ll invariably hit. Maybe I’ll see if I can find a surplus cowcatcher?
Not Again! Stupid Deer: Cold Start
I’m An Insurance Adjuster And I’m Going To Total Your Car (And Hate Doing It)
After More Than A Year, I Finally Got My Nissan Pao Back And Damn It Feels Good Except For A Coolant Leak
A little over a decade ago my MG Metro 1300 got hit by a guy in an SUV who ran a red light while I was making a “protected” left turn:
https://live.staticflickr.com/3690/9630710931_cb656c834d_c.jpg
We both had the same insurance company and, after his/my company looked into what it would cost to find Metro parts in the UK and bring them to the US, not surprisingly they suggested it was most likely a total loss. Fortunately the person handling the claim was sympathetic to the unusual nature of the car and did, in fact, check with me to find out how I might want to proceed before just writing it off. I wanted to keep the car, so rather than deal with a modest payout, a buyback, a salvage title, and all that, I asked that the claim be dropped entirely, which it was.
Later, after inspecting the hitherto unseen unibody rust that had been exposed by the dislocation of the fender, I decided against fixing it myself and instead collaborated with a friend to turn it into a Lemons racer, which worked out great. So, you know, there are other options out there…
This is the way. Carfax is Carfax, but there should be certain damages that necessitate a salvage title, like frame damage or Marders chewing on every single wire and hose in Germany. For an insurance company to total a car, that means they set a limit to what they’ll pay out on that specific vehicle. So that’s what you collect for paying insurance for all those years. Putting on a new hood and headlight bucket on a Pao makes it roadworthy again, since the underlying structural safety was not affected.
Gee. I’m glad you didn’t bundle your health insurance with this company.
COTD!
Although he might already be salvage title…
Only his wife truly knows.
I’m a collision consultant / estimator at a moderately sized dealership shop. I’ve been doing this about 12 years. Our shop is not a DRP or contracted shop for many insurance companies. Those that we are contracted with generally let us repair vehicles per manufacturer guidelines and don’t play games with us or tell us how to fix the car. We often have an adversarial relationship with insurance companies that try to force shops to repair vehicles improperly or otherwise cut corners to save money.
All that said, here are some thoughts:
The “GENE” stands for “generic”.
The PAO likely is not in the database, so they chose a generic vehicle profile.
This repair estimate is clearly overwritten for the damage to the vehicle. I believe the insurance estimator and/or adjuster just wants to get rid of the claim and doesn’t want to deal with it. Likely due to the rare nature of the vehicle and the problems that may arise getting parts and such. Maybe they saw how long it took to repair the vehicle the first time and just want to kill the claim. Also, by totalling the vehicle, they will likely be off the hook for re-insuring it but hope they can still keep your business with the rest of your fleet or homeowner insurance (if you are bundled).
To be clear, it does not appear to be a bad estimate. It is actually a very thorough estimate but it assumes damage that is not there or not readily apparent.
I don’t know if you’ll now have a branded or salvage title in your state. In Texas, a branded title is not mandated until the total cost of repairs, minus refinish and taxes, is over the value of the vehicle. So lets say a vehicle value is $10k. If the repair estimate is $12k but $3k is paint time, paint supplies, and taxes, the vehicle should not have a branded title. Sometimes insurance companies try to push a branded title either out of ignorance or in an effort to take the vehicle off the policy but keep the rest of the policy intact. We’ve had customers “buy back” the vehicle and fight to keep a clean title and be successful.
You probably don’t care about the title only that it may make it harder for you to get insurance moving forward. You’re going to keep this car, pass it down to Otto, and cherish it for a long time.
I could keep going and would be happy to elucidate further.
Fight for a reasonable settlement, get it fixed for less, pocket the rest, and shop for decent insurance. I’d be happy to lend more personal advice if you wish. You can email me anytime.
Keep getting better, Torch. Thinking of you.
Thank you for this response!
Your response could be made into a whole story, BTW. I’d love to see and hear more about this. It’s such an enigma to us norms.
This is why I love this site: an intelligent commentariat that can answer questions in full sentences, be funny, and inform.
‘Why did my auto insurance provider total my car when I made a claim?’
Because you made a claim.
Auto insurance is mandated in the overwhelming majority of states for the overwhelming majority of vehicles, meaning the overwhelming majority of the time you have to buy it our you face legal penalties. Because of this the insurance companies can charge whatever they want and give you as bad of service as they want because YOU HAVE TO BUY THEIR PRODUCT!
Insurance is a for profit business, they’re looking to make money, which means not paying out more than they take it, and in general paying out the absolute minimum.
The more they have to pay out according to the policy you signed the more likely they are to try to invalidate the contract, and if they know you were covered at a certain point it’s cheaper for them to not pay out, run the chance that you sue, and pay their lawyers to drag it out for as long as possible and most of the time the insurance company ends up settling with you for less than you’re owed, or you run out of money and or will to continue the lawsuit and give up. Either way it’s cheaper for the insurance company that way over a certain amount and the higher the value of the insurance payout is the higher the likelihood it’ll go to court instead of you getting paid out.
Insurance companies got all the money in the world to wait you out, Generally people make insurance claims because they NEED the money, and people who NEED the money generally don’t have a ton of excess money around to pay for legal fees.
If you’re legally required to have insurance never ever ever make a claim you don’t need to. Even if they cover the claim they’ll just use it at a later date to jack up your monthly rates.
Ensuring you are as prepared as one can practically be in the only form of “insurance” one can truly rely on.
Isn’t there any competition in the US market then? We have mandatory insurance* in the UK, but there’s enough different insurance companies that competition keeps prices somewhat sensible.
Sensible is relative. New Hampshire has the lowest insurance rates in the country, they also don’t have mandatory car insurance.
This was about 25 years ago when a friend of my parents took advantage of this, but in SC there used to and may still be a law or something where if they total the car, and give you an unreasonably low payout, you can instead request them to find you an equivalent car to what you totaled. Maybe something like this exists in NC in case you got a crap offer? (that would also need to assume Pao’s are hard to find cheap with the milage / condition yours was in)
Don’t you dare take that Pao at a [dealership ambiguously but reasonably close] my gf called dibs! It’s my best in with her for car culture, don’t take this away from me
They’ll probably try to give Torch a CVT Versa and say, “They’re both small and both automatic and both Nissans! They’re equivalent!”
Why insurance if you think it’s just a headlight and a fistful of bondo?
They’ll always go with a full replacement panel. Replacing a full panel takes a predetermined amount of time. A shop can bill (or try to) almost infinite hours to repair a panel. As for the door, it may need to be removed or adjusted in the process of replacing the fender.
You’re asking them to estimate the costs of repairing a car that does not exist in any of their data. It’s just a roll of the dice what you get back from them. They may be considering the money they spent last year on repairs. Insurance companies track and consider everything. They’re not going to pay 60% of the car’s value every year for deer strikes – especially when your car has no reliably-established value in the US.
I wish you the best, but never inherently trust any insurance company in any situation. Their interests are never yours.
My takeaway?
Two Deer Pows make for a Totalled Gene Pao.
Now back to you in the Studio…
Keep it up and you’re gonna get some Pao Paos.
You reported to insurance, what did you expect. I’m baffled they covered the first incident at all. They will offer you some amount as the total payout and you can pay a couple hundred to get it back with a salvage title and use the funds to fix it up.
I’m sure somebody’s already mentioned it but have you checked out a Hagerty policy on this car? I pay something like $230 a year for $8,500 full replacement value on my Midget.
Shoot. That’s much cheaper than my last estimate for $9,000 on my ’97 Mustang GT. Though, I guess Michigan does that to any insurance provider.
I’ve got stated value coverage from Hagerty for $10,000 on my Corvair at $125/year, no mileage or usage restrictions (other than no daily commuting)
Agree with the Hagerty suggestion. I’m at 6500 value for $360 a year ($84 of which goes straight to Michigan for the MCCA fee) for the MGB. I increased the PIP and stuff since I’m in a tiny car. It’s a real bargain compared to my other cars and they are great to deal with for claims.
Sorry Jason. That sucks that they totaled it. I was shocked last year when my insurance company did $5500 in repairs to our 2008 STS, including a hood, bumper, grill, and work to both fenders. I was nearly sure it would be totaled, even though there was no mechanical damage.
Exactly. For something like the Pao agreed-value collector car insurance would be the way to go.
I need a deep dive article on this Gene “The Machine” Nissan character even if you have to make one up!
I feel like Gene Nissan could work as a fictional advertising character, maybe like Joe Isuzu, except more trustworthy
Gene(ric) ? If it ain’t in the insurance computer, it’s a generic.
I’d rather have Gene Nissan than Joe Isuzu.
That’s my guess too, if they select Nissan as the manufacturer it probably autopopulates with all the models but since this one was never sold in the US it’s not an option. I’m guessing if they select “Gene” it lets them type in a model.
None of this changes the fact that I need a Gene Nissan backstory starting with their childhood playing with cars.
It all started with a powder bule VW Beetle that his grandfather gave as a toy when he was five years old.
You have my attention
As he grew up, he fell for all the troupes and thought cars could fly as well as heal themselves. (He secretly was confused that while they could fly why would they blow up in midair as they were driven off a cliff?) After finding out that cars land horrifically hard jumping an opening drawbridge, as well as probation and losing his license for a year as well as being grounded; Gene started scrutinizing commercials as well. He was astounded at the antics delivered in automotive commercials. Cars balanced perfectly while “sky diving”? A Dodge Daytona keeping up with Camaro Z28s and Mustang GTs? Heresy! Gene vowed to create commercials that were entertaining but honest.
Gene went to college and then interned for ad agencies. His big break came when he focused on the tiny pocket on tennis shoes. After that he highlighted the hard life of donut makers and moved forward to Time Life book series. The tooled leather focus garnered the attention he dreamed of. That fateful night, Nissan called him up and asked if he could run a series of ads for them. He had loved their old slogan and wanted to bring it back. “Built for the human race… again!” He shot scene after scene of beautiful Nissans under soft autumn light being the faithful companions to their owners. Unfortunately, a few of the higher ups remembered the Chrysler ads mocking them and chose to another way. Gene was crestfallen when he found his whole campaign was cut in favor of a lady espousing the Nissan to be “Grounded to the ground”.
Gene was never the same after that. His ads lost their magic as companies pushed for more and more hyperbole. Finally, he left the country all together and was last seen in Jamacia selling T-shirts from a stand on a beach.
Some say he finally found peace, but others say his eyes still tear up at every sunset as the orange ball reminds him of the glorious Nissan symbol and a dream that was never meant to be.
Damn, poor Gene. I was rooting for the guy but honestly after a career in IT selling t-shirts on a beach sounds like a mighty fine retirement. I assume it’s the same for folks in marketing. So…happy ending!
Thank you for reading it. I’m glad you liked it. 🙂
I’d rather have Nissan Jeans than either Gene Nissan or Joe Isuzu. Sure, the styles don’t get updated very often, but you can usually find them on sale, and they are fine if you are just going around town.
Actually, Nissan jeans might turn out decent if they made them, what with Japanese selvedge denim and all
The denim may be okay and the Zero Gravity fit will probably be superb, but I’d be very concerned about the Continuously Variable Zipper.
Nissan used to make (or worked with Thermos to make) a vacuum insulated wide mouth 61 oz. bottle perfect for keeping your lunch (or anything that could fit) warm or cold…
It is amazing to think Nissan used to be known for well designed, engineered and built products instead of the generally uninspired cheap ass basic batch motering appliances. Exceptions of course to Godzilla
https://kk.org/cooltools/thermos-nissan-1/
Been with Joe since 1986, he never let me down
As a Gene I approve of these messages.
As I recall, Gene Nissan played defensive tackle at Clemson in 1977 alongside Jim Stuckey.
Someone was probably watching Bob’s Burgers while entering the data. Notice how the ‘generic’ family wagon kind of looks like a Nissan Prairie?
Or a Plymouth Volare
Well, at least we know who the deer are really working for now.
I’m flagging your comment for being blatantly anticervidae.
Sometimes insurance companies will total stuff to avoid headache. My guess is they didn’t want to go through fixing an obscure car again.
The pixelated insurance logo looks like an extended middle finger.
Raise your hand if you read “Virginianus” as “virgin anus”…
I’ve seen that pointed out before, but it’s just not true.
Welp, lucky for you (and us), the medical insurance field doesn’t quite work the same way.
Yet.
why did you file a claim in the first place? seems sourcing the repairs yourself would be easier in this case.
Also, is that blurred out image the Insurance co giving you the bird?
This, why did you report it at all?
How would something like this work under Hagerty’s classic car insurance? I’d assume most who have policies with them and experience something like this would not want their vehicle totalled.
Hagerty lets you set the value of your car as whatever number you want, and they will insure it to that number. If you think your 1978 Dodge Aspen is worth $98,000, and are willing to pay the insurance, Hagerty will not total it until costs exceed $98k.
Hagerty probably won’t write a policy for it. They are refusing kei trucks at this point and I’m sure other kei like vehicles.
Luckily the Pao, with its size and 1.0L engine, is not a kei vehicle.
Maine DOT classified 2.4L, 188in long Mitsubushi Delicas as kei cars, I think they just assume anything JDM and sort of smallish must be a kei
I looked into Hagerty for my near mint condition 80s Olds wagon. They won’t insure it unless it’s one of the “desirable” models. Oh well.
Hagerty has pretty bad mileage limits too. If you want to daily drive a “classic” car you’ll run out of coverage pretty quick, no matter how cheap the “classic” car is.
Have not run into that, I have no mileage limit at all, but I’m not allowed to use it for daily commuting (no idea how they’d even police that)
Please check I think they limit all collector insurance cars at 5,000 miles. They may not have mentioned it but check the policy wording
Nope, nothing in the general provisions, can’t use it for racing, can’t take it to Mexico, have to own at least one other car for daily use, but no mileage restriction, I’ve had this policy for years, I can assure you I’m well aware of what is and what isn’t in it, I don’t make a point of signing documents and paying for things if I don’t.
However they want, they’re an insurance company.
They can’t sell collector insurance for a daily driver.
It’s specifically not for Daily Drivers, it’s a classic specific insurance policy that assumes you use the car, but that it isn’t your main vehicle. To get the policy you have to prove you have a daily on a normal insurance plan
Which is BS
Which is BS IMHO
I’ll have to do a hard disagree there. If they didn’t do that they would be… a normal insurance company. And therefore you’d be screwed. Classic, collector, and special interest vehicles are different than a “normal everyday” car. They have built out a system that allows that – it isn’t rational like a big insurance company is. If you’re a large insurance company, you don’t give a shit about “why do you like this car? It’s old and therefore not as good as a new car and not worth anything.” Hagerty’s set up realizes that the worth of a car to you is not necessarily just a number. That isn’t a business model that can replace what the main insurance market does. They have to exist outside of that for the model to really make sense. It’s not a replacement so much as it’s a accompaniment
Insurance is a damn joke in this country, get what you can, fix it yourself and move on. I’d feel better repairing my own stuff anyway, everybody these days just wants to make a quick buck.
Oh! And you legally need to have it… but you also need to pay more to cover the damage caused by people who… don’t have it (even though YOU need to)
Right.. I have to pay more for my comprehensive coverage to protect myself from the paper-tag wearing Nissan doing 15 over the limit with no insurance at all. Sounds fair.
See when you think about it just a little bit it all makes sense…
Oh, geez. Hopefully you can get it all sorted, especially with a salvage/rebuilt title. Presumably that’ll be allowed in North Carolina? Here in Tennessee they apparently don’t allow salvage/rebuilt titles for cars more than ten years old. Augh.
“Odocoileus virginianus”
Is that name for real? Let me Google it…
…JFC
Wow… they’re attempting to blend the paint on the doors on a 30 year old car. That adjuster must have come from the body shop side to over write like that!
Agree just buy it back, take the payout, and fix whats broken.
The “totaled” diagnosis is not the end of the world, even if it results in a branded/salvage title.
Years ago, I had a friend whose Renault 5 was backed into, causing a fair bit of damage to grille, hood, front bumper and one fender. I told her to take the payout and then took her to a Pick-Your-Part where we found all the necessary bits. She installed them herself (using my tools and only once or twice needing advice), and had enough money left over for a very nice paint job.
Where on earth did you find R5 parts in a picknpull ? never found any when I had one
Local yards in CA’s San Fernando Valley had several (this was early, early 1980s). IIRC, the parts-grabbing was all done in a day and involved two different cars. We brought the parts home in my Renault 16, which also had some salvage-yard parts.
As a side note, the boneyards were full of Neat Stuff in those days.
I think they’re just getting ahead a bit here and think you’ll probably keep ramming into deer until they take your pao away. It is probably cheaper for them to total it now that to keep paying specialist shops to fix it twice a year. Sorry Torch.
Well, that is pure crap. I’d go for the buyback option. Question is, is your state going to salvage title it? And will that make problems for insuring it? As for the slavage title resale value, I don’t see that being a problem because you have no interest in selling it.
I agree, this could be a nice payout for you.
My current F-150 was my parent’s when they backed it into a semi trailer. Because aluminum beds are so hard to source, they totalled it out and wrote them a check for $30k. I bought it back for $9k and had a weld up a flatbed
https://twitter.com/pmtiegs/status/1710776876103598478/photo/1
Now that is the perfect solution in that situation. I’ve always preferred flatbeds, myself. But then, I’ve always been in agriculture, and flatbeds are better for hay. And I am a flatbed truck driver, so securement is second nature to me
Great caption there
Hell yeah!